How do you properly drop your Brain into the Lower Dan Tien?

[SecretGrotto]

I would like my mental and intellectual energy to be drawn from LDT, otherwise I'm 'top-heavy' and get dizzy when I think too much, like my head energy gets drained too quickly. I've experienced this very often and get drained so fast that I have to sit down and then I'm unable to function normally again.

 

I've read Mantak Chia's Universal Healing Tao instruction yesterday, where I saw this concept of doing all your brainwork from the LDT essentially. Almost like you are dropping your brain into the LDT, and use the LDT as the center of your awareness the whole time, which can then provide thinking processes the energy from the LDT so you don't get drained by focusing on the upper Dan Tien which doesn't store energy so well.

 

The idea I've received from the instruction is to spin the UDT, MDT and LDT and sort of feel the awareness centered in the head moving down into the LDT. So most of the awareness should be felt in the LDT, with partial attention being paid to the spinning of the UDT and MDT now and then or simultaneously.

 

Could you please give me more direct useful instruction on fully achieving the centering of thinking and intellectual activity in the LDT, like what a strong process I should follow to reliably achieve this?

[joeblast]

Two best ways I know,

 

1) maintain your focus on the physical mechanisms. well enough, for long enough, timed properly. keep your awareness in the gut and this is indeed NO metaphor once the nerves are well attenuated and the thought stream energy dampened:

 

 

2) once the physical mechanisms are down, if everything is efficient enough, you should be well enough aware of the potential at the lower dt. if you are not, use method #1. if you are, wax and wane this potential along with the breath, grow and shrink from roughly the size of a golf ball to a peach and back. feeeeeel the enerypotential of it wax and wane with your breath. when done always spend time in stillness and let it fade.

 

 

nerve cells use 8-10x the oxygen (so one can make a qi correlation) that other cell types use....so thinking burns up a lot of qi. you can also use the turning the light around method for the niwan for added effectiveness, but that's sorta "past" "abiding in the gut" because if you are doing a good job at that then you wont actually feel like you're sitting inside your torso like you will when all of your awareness is focused there.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found that instead of thinking lower dantien and doing it with your brain, and your mind being there.... you feel as though you are there with body awareness. It's not a thought or visualization sort of thing, but more of a shift. Similar to when you shift to being in your whole body instead of just your head/brain. I know this doesn't sound like what you are asking, but.... it is a different sort of brain and thinking and a different sort of awareness, which starts off with just "feel it there".

 

Sort of difficult to describe, so hopefully that makes sense . I'm far from 24X7 at it though!

[GrandmasterP]

+1 BKA.

Once the Qi's flowing nicely round that MCO then 'brain' or 'mind' don't especially feature.

For sure the mind is always chattering away there in the background but working MCO ensures it is just background 'noise'.

The cultivation is what it is.

The better it becomes the less 'you' are present at all either brain- wise or mind-wise.

The more we think about cultivation the less well it 'works'.

Cultivate daily in a disciplined fashion until not only has the cultivation become part of you it has 'transcended' 'you'.

 

Hope that helps SecretGrotto and all best wishes to you for success.

Edited July 18, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I'd say if thoughts are the problem, practice awareness and presence while holding the dantien, putting right palm lao-gong point over LDT and then left hand over the right, lining up the lao-gong/center of the palms.

 

People say that in meditation one does not "control their thoughts," but let's them pass. However, sometimes you have to reign in the horse before you can enjoy the quiet ride. If your thoughts are controlling you - control them. Then you can let them be and just enjoy the presence. Meditation is largely about taming the mind. The mind really is the horse on which we ride, so it's best that it isn't too wild. Natural and still a horse, yes, but not a bucking stallion in heat, lol.

 

Start with the breath, breathing in, knowing that you're breathing in; breathing out, knowing that you're breathing out. If you're sitting, find a spot on the floor and focus on that spot so you're "there" in the room and not dreaming about dreaming about dreaming, etc...

 

I'm probably just re-iterating what you already know, but it may help to hear it again once in a while..

[SecretGrotto]

From HealingDao.com, a very cool chart showing how to "drop the brain":

 

 

 

And Mantak Chia giving a rough overview:

 

 

 

Mantak's books/teachings never really resonated with me when I was starting out, because the instructions and requirements seemed so arcane and impossible to do.

 

Like needing to spiral the LDT, I felt like "What does it help I visualize something when I feel absolutely nothing?" But now that I do feel the LDT, it is a different story, and I get really into the 'visualizations' required and feel like something is happening when I perform the connections to the galaxy/earth.

 

Thanks guys for the instructions you gave also.

[Spotless]

About 99.99% of thinking is completely unnecessary. It is mainly fear driven, vanity driven (fear), judgement (fear), arguementative compilations (fear), survival (fear), apologetic (fear), planning (fear) - about 99% of all thought is fear driven.

 

BKA was spot on.

 

As you have learned that visualization is being replaced by real feeling, so it will be with real seeing, knowing and more. Each will present themselves to you as the noise is seen for noise and nothing more. It may take some time to actually believe I am really saying your thoughts have almost zero value - they have far less than a spec of value but they do have some - easily fit on the head of less than half a pin.

 

Nearly the entire substance of your thoughts are fear driven inside the roller coaster ride, inside the screen, where everyone has a death grip on everything.

 

In the LDT you will not be thinking - you do not go there to think your thoughts.

It is a shift - center there and be in the energy field that rises upward and again down - though it does not feel like movement - it feels powerful and will immediately amplify if you are in it - it requires no effort - effort is like running away from it - it is just a subtle shift.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Spotless

[nova_b]

For mastering that part of the body iron penis qi gong was one of the greatest things I could have stumbled on, it has done wonders for my lower TD after 2 months I can say the constipation I had on and off again for a very very long while b4 that has subsided. When I'm meditating and focusing on this point now, say in horse stance with hands over my LTD I can expand the energy enough to a point where my whole body is engulfed in dripping sweat, looking like I just ran a mile in 6 minutes, all while standing still (not even moving!) so check that out. Personally I have a feeling I'm only beginning to unleash the true deep and limitless power that is a well balanced LTD.

[MooNiNite]

why drop it down when you can raise it up?

[mYTHmAKER]

Simply place you attention on your dantien and your breath will follow.

keep bringing the focus back and it will become automatic.

Do not force it - do not make it travel in any direction.

Relax and it will happen.

You can play around with putting your attention at your throat - upper chest level and of course your dantien.

Do this while walking and also when talking. You will notice how your posture and voice change.

The lower the breath the freer your body will be - chest will relax hips will loosen and your voice will become deeper.

[freeform]

Yeah you need to find your LDT first. Using mantak's material is mostly of no use I'm afraid. First you need to learn to sink into your qua properly, then you need to precisely locate your centre your gravity in your LDT area.

 

When you're sunk to the correct posture, use your awareness to find the right spot. Just remember it's deep into your body not on the surface of the belly. Once you hit the right point with your mind you'll feel a little surge, or tug, or pull - a physical perception. That means you've got the right point. Keep your awareness and 'listen' there in a diffuse manner (not focused in an effortful way).

 

Once you feel comfortable with this, there's a subtle shift of attention required... You need to change the source of attention, so that the source becomes your LDT. You'll be attending FROM your LDT - not putting your attention ON the LDT. It's a subtle shift and it may take a couple of weeks of practice to get. But it feels like the source of your attention is from your belly rather than from your head.

 

The quality of your attention will also be different, and will change as you develop. The quality is very 'spacious' and inclusive...

 

This may 'activate' your dantien which may result in spontaneous movements - which means time to find a teacher!

Edited November 3, 2014 by freeform

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[freeform]

woah freeform, that's an extremely useful explanation there

 

Haha - I'm glad you find that helpful.

 

Finding the dantien seems so simple - but is in fact quite a process... A good tip I forgot to mention is using your perineum - just give it a light squeeze and trace your mind up from that point - because the LDT is at that depth into your body.

 

Once you've found it there's further and further refinement to be made. You can reach deeper and deeper into the centre of it with your awareness. There's literally years worth of practice to be had simply from locating the LDT. Eventually you'll move into alchemy and it really will become an actual DANtien. Then it's a whole new story and I'll be asking you for tips instead

 

The awareness trick is a little easier actually. I've been playing around with the perceptual shift for a couple of years now. In fact it's possible to shift the source of awareness to many different points - both inside and outside the body.

 

Try having your liver be the source of attention for example... or any other organ... or if you're sensitive enough you can even attend from your meridians. Just beware that if your body is not balanced and healthy, (who's is these days!?) you'll come face to face with all that stagnation.

 

If you find a master that creates talismanic type of calligraphy you can shift the source of attention to the caligraphy - as if it's looking at you. It can be a powerful practice if the master paints from a strong chong mai connection. I've even heard that some masters teach exclusively through this method. Imagine getting no instructions other than staring at caligraphy!

 

[doc benway]

I have found that instead of thinking lower dantien and doing it with your brain, and your mind being there.... you feel as though you are there with body awareness. It's not a thought or visualization sort of thing, but more of a shift. Similar to when you shift to being in your whole body instead of just your head/brain. I know this doesn't sound like what you are asking, but.... it is a different sort of brain and thinking and a different sort of awareness, which starts off with just "feel it there".

 

Sort of difficult to describe, so hopefully that makes sense . I'm far from 24X7 at it though!

 

So important to separate your concept with direct experience through non-conceptual awareness.

That is the foundation, IMO.

 

One thing that could be a bit useful is that for many people the awareness or feeling of Qi is somewhat similar to the feeling of sexual excitation, only much more subtle.

I don't think it is coincidental that there is a similarity in this feeling and that there is a relationship between Qi and Jing (the generate force).

[Mark Foote]

I wrote about this recently, including Cheng Man-Ch'ing's advice:

 

"The literal meaning of the word "ch’i" is "breath". Cheng described how, once the entire body is relaxed, a further relaxation of the chest will allow the ch’i to sink to the tan-t’ien. Relaxation of the chest depends on a relinquishment of volitive activity affecting the movement of inhalation and exhalation; given such a relinquishment, the location of awareness may indeed shift to the lower abdomen and include proprioception there and elsewhere in the body, much as Cheng described."

(from here)

Another thing that says is, ch'i is a phenomena of trance; the relinquishment of volition cannot be made to happen, and in the relinquishment of volition a state of trance exists. That's why no one can actually say exactly how the heart-mind ends up at the tan-t'ien; the process is different for different people, and different for the same person from day to day.

 

My writing has served to point me toward the relaxed distinction of the senses, including the sense of equalibrium, the sense of gravity, and the sense of place in muscle, bone, and ligament tissue that is proprioception. Oh, and did I mention the mind: the mind as a sense, in the relaxed distinction of the senses.

 

It can't be done, but it happens naturally, and it helps me to see that I don't have to know anything for it to happen.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Mark Foote

[Michael Sternbach]

I doubt that you can drop your brain into the LDT - because you have another brain there already! Not only do the intestines resemble the brain windings, modern research even found neurotransmitters in-there.

 

The idea of literally dropping my whole self-awareness into my guts is what scared me off when I first read about the LDT/hara first when I was a teenager. But now I think one mustn't take this so literally.

 

Just try to center yourself there and navigate your breath there. All the rest will follow.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain-Groundbreaking-Understanding-Disorders/dp/0060930721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415346238&sr=8-1&keywords=the+second+brain

[Spotless]

I wrote about this recently, including Cheng Man-Ch'ing's advice:

 

 

 

 

"The literal meaning of the word "chi" is "breath". Cheng described how, once the entire body is relaxed, a further relaxation of the chest will allow the chi to sink to the tan-tien. Relaxation of the chest depends on a relinquishment of volitive activity affecting the movement of inhalation and exhalation; given such a relinquishment, the location of awareness may indeed shift to the lower abdomen and include proprioception there and elsewhere in the body, much as Cheng described."

(from http://www.zenmudra.com/zenmudra-fuxi.html]here[/url])

Another thing that says is, ch'i is a phenomena of trance; the relinquishment of volition cannot be made to happen, and in the relinquishment of volition a state of trance exists. That's why no one can actually say exactly how the heart-mind ends up at the tan-t'ien; the process is different for different people, and different for the same person from day to day.

 

My writing has served to point me toward the relaxed distinction of the senses, including the sense of equalibrium, the sense of gravity, and the sense of place in muscle, bone, and ligament tissue that is proprioception. Oh, and did I mention the mind: the mind as a sense, in the relaxed distinction of the senses.

 

It can't be done, but it happens naturally, and it helps me to see that I don't have to know anything for it to happen.

It is not true that " in the relinquishment of volition a state of trance exists " if at least you are specifically implying that when one relinquishes volition one is in trance. This is typically a fine translation problem or a teacher that comes from a trance tradition but it is experientially not true in the automated sense that you appear to have put forth.

 

As example - an awakened person is not in a trance state when they are in the Awakened state - they are in a sense in a hyper non-trance state with the ability to enter into trance space while still not in a trance state. (Words here make clarity on this issue difficult)

 

Many very fine teachers make this assumption incorrectly and or it is a technical problem in translation with the unfortunate assumptions of translators.

 

Trance is also an easier path to what I would term byproducts - through trance one can more quickly advance to less clarified higher states - but while less clarified, they are much higher states and they are gained much more quickly. Unfortunately this short cut of sorts leads to a sort of stunted other person's view of many experiences because of the lowered self awareness of gains made by comparison to a grounded in-the-body approach out of trance.

We have several posters within the Tao Bums that have risen quite high in their abilities but from a trance tradition. They cannot help but quote constantly from other sources in their writings because of this method of gain.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Spotless

[Leif]

This article has some thoughts that might be helpful:

http://buddhihermit.blogspot.cz/2012/01/true-naikan.html

[Spotless]

Additionally, if you are interested in Awakening and that is your priority, then attempting to walk around in a trance state will be very counter productive if not simply dangerous. The Awakened state is hyper-embodiment - not dissassociative of the body. Volition is not "relinquished" but it falls away in a very real sense while it is at once replaced with actual volition.

 

The idea of "relinquishing" (not trying to pick on anyone here) is another unfortunate concept brought up time and again throughout theachings of the very best variety - primarily because of translation problems and the human bent toward all things "I do".

 

Things "fall away" as practice progresses - very little of importance in this work is "releasing" in an active sense.

We move through things and transform and rise in vibration and a new clarity sets in that supersedes the previous.

 

In meditation we are not releasing compressions as much as the vibrations and cosmic forces are bringing blocks to a vibrational explosion wherein release takes place (like a singer whose high sustained pitch can break glass). This is true in Qi Gong, Yoga and many other practices.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Spotless

[doc benway]

Additionally, if you are interested in Awakening and that is your priority, then attempting to walk around in a trance state will be very counter productive if not simply dangerous. The Awakened state is hyper-embodiment - not dissassociative of the body. Volition is not "relinquished" but it falls away in a very real sense while it is at once replaced with actual volition.

 

The idea of "relinquishing" (not trying to pick on anyone here) is another unfortunate concept brought up time and again throughout theachings of the very best variety - primarily because of translation problems and the human bent toward all things "I do".

 

Things "fall away" as practice progresses - very little of importance in this work is "releasing" in an active sense.

We move through things and transform and rise in vibration and a new clarity sets in that supersedes the previous.

 

In meditation we are not releasing compressions as much as the vibrations and cosmic forces are bringing blocks to a vibrational explosion wherein release takes place (like a singer whose high sustained pitch can break glass). This is true in Qi Gong, Yoga and many other practices.

 

Perhaps it's simply semantic, but I have a bit of a different opinion and experience regarding the value of releasing.

At some point, perhaps, one has reached a point where it is no longer necessary. For the majority of people, there tends to be some degree of effort present in their attempts at meditation, relaxation, qigong, and so forth.

For the most part, depending on the method, that effort is an obstacle.

I think it is extremely valuable to be aware of that effort. When one is aware of the effort, it already changes, but it may be helpful to gently remind oneself to let go of effort. I think this process can be very helpful.

[freeform]

I wrote about this recently, including Cheng Man-Ch'ing's advice:

 

 

"once the entire body is relaxed, a further relaxation of the chest will allow the chi to sink to the tan-tien. Relaxation of the chest depends on a relinquishment of volitive activity affecting the movement of inhalation and exhalation

(from here)

Interestingly I've only recently learned about the importance of 'sinking the chest' - or indeed relaxing it. It's actually often an inner-door 'secret' teaching! The way I learned it was not so much to do with breath but just as above - a further relaxation of a very specific line of connective tissue in a specific way.

 

This line runs from the suprasternal notch (the jugular notch between the clavicles) through the centre of your body, down to the perineum. Once all your muscles are relaxed (and connected) in your chosen standing posture, you're meant to consciously 'sink' and relax this line. The relaxing actually feels like an expassion inside - like a flower unfurling in all directions in the centre of your body. There is also an almost imperceptible drop of the jugular notch downwards. Remember that this is not the energy body, but the physical body - relaxing this line has a physical effect.

 

If you've actually built up a connection through your body, relaxing that line will in fact slacken and break the connection, so you need to re-establish it at this new level of relaxation.

 

I'm at the very beginning of this, and it's actually proving to be quite useful for standing practices. There is also another 'secret' line to relax in a similar way - also very good for standing practice, but apparently is also often withheld from most students - because it allows to powerfully draw in earth force.

[Mark Foote]

freeform, thanks for that. I guess my point would be that as far as the heart-mind at the tan-tien, no amount of physical relaxation can actually bring the heart-mind to the tan-t'ien, but only the relinquishment of volition.

 

Regarding trance, although the translation of "jhana" adopted by the Pali Text Society by the middle-length volumes was "meditation", "jhana" was translated "trance" when the kindred sayings were published thirty years earlier. Semantics? Here's the description of the first rupa (material) jhana:

 

“…as a skilled bath-attendant or (bath-attendant) apprentice, having sprinkled bath-powder into a bronze vessel, might knead it while repeatedly sprinkling it with water until the ball of lather had taken up moisture, was drenched with moisture, suffused with moisture inside and out but without any oozing. Even so… does (a person) saturate, permeate, suffuse this very body with the rapture and joy that are born of aloofness; there is no part of (the) whole body that is not suffused with the rapture and joy born of aloofness. While (such a person) is thus diligent, ardent, self-resolute, those memories and aspirations that are worldly are got rid of; by getting rid of them, the mind is inwardly settled, calmed, focused, concentrated.”

(MN III 92-93, PTS pg 132-134)

This is, to me, a description of what it feels like when the heart-mind is in the lower abdomen. The only words I've been able to find in the first four Nikayas about how such a concentration comes about are:

 

“"...making self-surrender (one's) object of thought, (one) lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness of mind."

(SN V 200, Pali Text Society V 176)

Which is not to say that "making self-surrender (one's) object of thought" induces a state of concentration or one-pointedness of mind, but only that it's conducive. At least that's my reading.

 

About trance, I wrote this in my introduction to the material quoted previously:

 

The psychotherapist Milton Erickson held that trance is an everyday occurrence for everyone. Getting lost in a train of thought, or absorbed in an athletic endeavor, he described as examples of trance.

In his practice, Erickson regularly invited his clients to enter into trance, out of regard for the benefit of the client. That a client entered into trance in response to such an invitation, Erickson viewed as a result of the unconscious decision of the client, quite outside of Erikson’s control.

Erickson was famous for what came to be called "the confusion technique" in the induction of hypnosis, and in particular for his "handshake induction". By subtly interrupting someone in the middle of the expected course of an habitual activity, like shaking hands, Erickson enabled them to enter a state of trance. For Erickson, the confusion technique could also be applied through engaging the patient’s mind with a sentence whose meaning could not be found through the normal interpretation of the words and syntax (engaging the patient’s mind in a transderivational search).

Mention of the induction of trance, which was explicitly recognized and described in the teachings of Gautama the Buddha and was obliquely referenced in the remarks of Bodhidharma, the first Zen teacher in China (entering "the Way" in Denkoroku), is largely absent in the Chinese and Japanese literature of Zen. At the same time, instances of sentences whose meaning cannot be found through the normal interpretation of the words and whose utterance may therefore enable the induction of trance in the listener are ubiquitous in the literature.

The induction of trance serves to heighten the experience of the senses (a fact that Erickson noted), and thereby to allow a person under the right circumstances to discover activity in the senses that underlie the experience of self. Neuroscientists Olaf Blanke and Christine Mohr hypothesized that the tactile/proprioceptive/kinesthetic and vestibular senses in combination with the ocular sense are principally responsible for what is regarded as the experience of self. Particularly important to their conclusion was the observation that persons who experience themselves as being simultaneously in two places at once (a particular kind of out-of-body experience) appear to have a dysfunction in one or another of these senses.

(the references are in the original, here)

Long post, but I will add this story:

 

'The Patriarch asked, "Where do you come from?" Nan-yueh answered, "From Mt. Sung". The Patriarch said, "What is it that comes like this?" Nan-yueh replied, "To say anything would be wrong". The Patriarch said, "Then is it contingent on practice and verification?" Nan-yueh said, "Practice and verification are not nonexistent, they are not to be defiled."'

("Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation", by Carl Bielefeldt, pg 138)

Edited November 7, 2014 by Mark Foote

[mYTHmAKER]

Interestingly I've only recently learned about the importance of 'sinking the chest' - or indeed relaxing it. It's actually often an inner-door 'secret' teaching! The way I learned it was not so much to do with breath but just as above - a further relaxation of a very specific line of connective tissue in a specific way.

 

If you lightly focus on your dantien you chest will sink and hollow. If you try the exercise i posted earlier you can experience this.

[dwai]

 

Interestingly I've only recently learned about the importance of 'sinking the chest' - or indeed relaxing it. It's actually often an inner-door 'secret' teaching! The way I learned it was not so much to do with breath but just as above - a further relaxation of a very specific line of connective tissue in a specific way.

 

If you lightly focus on your dantien you chest will sink and hollow. If you try the exercise i posted earlier you can experience this.

I noticed that it is very important to sink the chest. Lot of qi gets stagnated there. Rounding the back (thereby sinking the chest) results in that dropping down. Proper alignments are needed. The "rounding of the lower back" is also important, but it is not overtly physical. Standing with the toes pointing slightly inward (or at least straight ahead) will do the "rounding of the lower back". This allows for two things imho - relaxation of the Kwa and letting the qi flow better from the ground to the LDT.

 

But imho, the "thinking from the LDT" is different way of approaching consciousness. It is developed by practicing things that exercises the LDT (push hands sensitivity stuff - developing ting jin and tong jin). It can be mentally exhausting to constantly have to "sink to the LDT" initially. As we relax more, the qi will naturally drop to the LDT and the LDT-based awareness will develop. It is like my teacher says "Feeling" (not thinking).

[mYTHmAKER]

I noticed that it is very important to sink the chest. Lot of qi gets stagnated there. Rounding the back (thereby sinking the chest) results in that dropping down. Proper alignments are needed. The "rounding of the lower back" is also important, but it is not overtly physical. Standing with the toes pointing slightly inward (or at least straight ahead) will do the "rounding of the lower back". This allows for two things imho - relaxation of the Kwa and letting the qi flow better from the ground to the LDT.

 

But imho, the "thinking from the LDT" is different way of approaching consciousness. It is developed by practicing things that exercises the LDT (push hands sensitivity stuff - developing ting jin and tong jin). It can be mentally exhausting to constantly have to "sink to the LDT" initially. As we relax more, the qi will naturally drop to the LDT and the LDT-based awareness will develop. It is like my teacher says "Feeling" (not thinking).

Not exhausting at all it will become automatic - when you have an itch your mind goes to the itch - no thinking involved.