what is reality and what is illusion ?

[Marblehead]

I've not had time to read the whole thread but I get the jist...

 

May I respond with the following?

 

If I stay away from all media and by some miracle, miss all of the info, are ISIS still tormenting/ terrorizing innocent alternative religious groups in Iraq?

Yes, even though you are not aware of it, it is still happening. Unless you have actually thought that they stopped doing those things there is no illusion on your part. The only thing that could be said would be that you weren't keeping up with current events. No illusions there.

[Rara]

Yes, even though you are not aware of it, it is still happening. Unless you have actually thought that they stopped doing those things there is no illusion on your part. The only thing that could be said would be that you weren't keeping up with current events. No illusions there.

Hehe, thanks...though it was more a rhetorical question...which is followed by my later post But yes, generally what I was getting at.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

the illusion and whats real are both perceivable by life. They are both " things "

 

even if the illusion is a thing that is not real its still perceivable by life and that makes it real . a real illusion .

 

Let me ask you this

 

Can you see an illusion ?

 

Can you see a real thing or something real ?

 

both of them ?

 

are they both, not real ?

are they both, real ?

 

Well, that's why I said "What is both real and illusion? The illusion that normality is reality."

 

The illusion is definitely present, making it real in a sense.

 

When the illusion is not there, is that reality? The absence of illusions?

 

Then there's nothing, or is it the absence of limits?

[goldisheavy]

No, no, no.

 

It is real to only the person who imagines the illusion. It is not real to anyone else. (There are exceptions to this, of course.)

 

Are you imagining anyone else?

[thelerner]

I find.. when I look away or look closer, or stop believing, or even wait a while- illusion dissipates. Reality tends to hang on no matter how closely or long I look. Even if disbelieved, reality tends to stubbornly hang on.

[TaoMaster]

My understanding of the koan is to aid those learning to live in the present moment and to not become attached to what came before/what may happen. Speculation, worry and assumptions are unhealthy components within the Tao.

never heard of the koan until now but your post makes sence.

 

dont worry about the past or future.? not a bad idea

 

Its easier said than done for allot of people but for some its pretty easy to do .

 

the past and future are in conflict with each other and also complete each other.

 

the future is yang and the past is yin

 

they are stacked from top to bottom not side by side. Yang is always on top and yin is always below. . Its how the heaven and hell concept came to be . Heaven above and hell below. yang and yin

 

the future comes first even tho for many it seems like it has not arrived yet . Or its still coming so to speak .

 

everything that existstoday came FROM the future.

 

its stacked from the top down and its the why behind gravity .

 

easy to prove it too

 

the past can be known just as easy as the future or the other way around .

 

Many beleive only the past can be known because the future has not come yet and it doesnt exist . its a pretty common consideration if you ask some others about it .

 

They both exist ( or do they ?) and they can both be known just as easy as the other.

 

the closer to the past- from the present the easier it can be known .

the closer to the future+ from the present , the easier to predict.

 

Can you know somthing that happened 5 minutes ago ? how about 30 trillion years ago ?

 

can you know something that will happen in the next five minutes ?

 

how about 30 trillion years from now into the future. ?

 

the future ( yang ) and the past ( Yin ) are simply two poles of the same spectrum called time.

 

when you remove time, the past and present vanish as well .

 

when you get really good at it you can easily know what you want in the future , from the future so to speak, and pooooof , it appears.

 

when you get really good at it you can make the past vanish and poooof its gone.

 

but first you must totally understand the yang and yin .

Edited August 14, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Marblehead]

Hehe, thanks...though it was more a rhetorical question...which is followed by my later post But yes, generally what I was getting at.

That's okay. I respond to rhetorical questions too.

[Marblehead]

Are you imagining anyone else?

Hehehe. Well, I wasn't imagining you at the time of that post.

 

I used to imagine this one really hot chick really wanting my body but that was just a delusion.

[Marblehead]

but first you must totally understand the yang and yin .

You should let those two mate and be one for a little while.

[Rara]

Its easier said than done for allot of people but for some its pretty easy to do .

 

the past and future are in conflict with each other and also complete each other.

 

Absolutely. I have had anxiety ever since I was 17...it is a lot better now but I mustn't let my meditation slip otherwise I get worse.

 

Anxiety (future) is poinless. Easier said than done, like you say! Otherwise I wouldn't need to meditate. I would just click my fingers and be better

 

But future and past are both illusion. All in the mind (lol because of your other "mind" thread)...for the only moment we ever have is this one we're having now

[TaoMaster]

Absolutely. I have had anxiety ever since I was 17...it is a lot better now but I mustn't let my meditation slip otherwise I get worse.

 

Anxiety (future) is poinless. Easier said than done, like you say! Otherwise I wouldn't need to meditate. I would just click my fingers and be better

 

But future and past are both illusion. All in the mind (lol because of your other "mind" thread)...for the only moment we ever have is this one we're having now

 

 

even illusions are real things, just not the truth

[Rara]

 

 

even illusions are real things

Depends in which context...

 

Dreams, for example, are real to the extent in which you have literal mental (and physical) reactions.

 

Running from imaginary police...probably not a good idea to think they are real.

 

Unless you meant something else entirely...

[Rara]

 

 

just not the truth

I reluctantly write the following (as I already know this will open up a new can of worms for everyone to feast on:

 

Reality vs truth. What exactly is the difference to you?

 

By definition (here we go again) they are indistinguishable...

[TaoMaster]

I reluctantly write the following (as I already know this will open up a new can of worms for everyone to feast on:

 

Reality vs truth. What exactly is the difference to you?

 

By definition (here we go again) they are indistinguishable...

reality+ is the truth+ and illusion- is the lie -

[Marblehead]

But they are totally different concepts. Like comparing apples against oranges.

[Marblehead]

reality+ is the truth+ and illusion- is the lie -

Okay: Reality vs illusion and truth vs lie.

[TaoMaster]

But they are totally different concepts. Like comparing apples against oranges.

they are both Yang . Its is like comparing yang to yang or yin to yin . If there were no question as to whats yang and whats yin it would also be very clear . When we fully understand which is which we will fully understand life in the universe.

 

yang can not VS yang and yin can not vs yin . Only yin can vs yang .

 

Yin is competitive and yang does not compete . Read the third sentence above again

 

reading about which is which from me or anyone else, is like me telling you how to play the paino . If you want to fully understand the piano, you need to play it yourself .

 

sit down and play with the yang and yin . Ive mentioned how to do that in the first posts in a couple threads I started.

 

its so easy and the benifit is huge . Youll be amazed.

[TaoMaster]

Okay: Reality vs illusion and truth vs lie.

correct but its illusion vs reality and lie vs truth .

 

vs is yin . It means compete. Competition is opposition and opposition is yin . In order to compete there must first be yang to compete against

[Marblehead]

correct but its illusion vs reality and lie vs truth .

 

vs is yin . It means compete. Competition is opposition and opposition is yin . In order to compete there must first be yang to compete against

Whatever you say. If it makes your theory work then it's good.

[TaoMaster]

Whatever you say. If it makes your theory work then it's good.

its only theory to those who dont understand it . Its factual for me derived from the word actual . Theory is something that cant be proved but may be possible . Ive proved this to myself as true . more than once . over and over and over again and again . But im not finished yet . Now I want to show others too .

 

Depends in which context...

 

Dreams, for example, are real to the extent in which you have literal mental (and physical) reactions.

 

Running from imaginary police...probably not a good idea to think they are real.

 

Unless you meant something else entirely...

if its in the physical and or mental universe, objectivly or subjectively , its a " thing"

 

if its a " thing " its real

 

an illusion is a thing because it exists and any "thing" is real.

 

so an illusion even though its saying whats real is not , the illusion is still real . Thats what makes it an illusion . Its belived to be real and it is but its not true .Its a lie about the truth . Its only real in that it exists in the universe. Theres no such thing as a false illusion, only the absence of illusion and that is reality or whats real .

 

the only thing in the universe that is rue is all the yang atributes . all else is a lie . Its a " not so " its " NOT" this is what yin is .

 

if it comes first and its positive. Its the truth always and without exception no matter what perspective or context .

 

if its negative and comes after its always yin without exception no matter what the perspective or context .

 

laws dont come and go on there own .

 

if you remove the basic law of the universe, law of duality, all laws made after it also vanish

 

all laws are stacked from the top down in the order they were created .

 

When you pull the top law the others below it vanish , not the other way around.

[Marblehead]

its only theory to those who dont understand it . Its factual for me derived from the word actual . Theory is something that cant be proved but may be possible . Ive proved this to myself as true . more than once . over and over and over again and again . But im not finished yet . Now I want to show others too .

And I must say, you have been doing a pretty good job so far. Hard telling how many you have caused to have new thoughts about their path.

 

Keep up your good work. Just don't start sounding like a Southern Baptist preacher as that will cause people to stop listening to you.

[goldisheavy]

I reluctantly write the following (as I already know this will open up a new can of worms for everyone to feast on:

 

Reality vs truth. What exactly is the difference to you?

 

By definition (here we go again) they are indistinguishable...

 

Reality is that which actually takes place or occurs. Truth is a conceptual mental formation that's considered to be reliable (as opposed to deceptive, unreliable, disappointing in the long run).

 

There may be overlap because conceptual mental formations can be considered to occur (unless you're an eliminationist), even if we can't say when or how exactly they occur, because whatever schema we come up with is easily questionable, but some kind of experience is undeniable.

[Rara]

its only theory to those who dont understand it . Its factual for me derived from the word actual . Theory is something that cant be proved but may be possible . Ive proved this to myself as true . more than once . over and over and over again and again . But im not finished yet . Now I want to show others too .

 

if its in the physical and or mental universe, objectivly or subjectively , its a " thing"

 

if its a " thing " its real

 

an illusion is a thing because it exists and any "thing" is real.

 

so an illusion even though its saying whats real is not , the illusion is still real . Thats what makes it an illusion . Its belived to be real and it is but its not true .Its a lie about the truth . Its only real in that it exists in the universe. Theres no such thing as a false illusion, only the absence of illusion and that is reality or whats real .

 

the only thing in the universe that is rue is all the yang atributes . all else is a lie . Its a " not so " its " NOT" this is what yin is .

 

if it comes first and its positive. Its the truth always and without exception no matter what perspective or context .

 

if its negative and comes after its always yin without exception no matter what the perspective or context .

 

laws dont come and go on there own .

 

if you remove the basic law of the universe, law of duality, all laws made after it also vanish

 

all laws are stacked from the top down in the order they were created .

 

When you pull the top law the others below it vanish , not the other way around.

Yes I see what you're saying. To me, this just confuses matters though. Pedantic yes, and technically correct by definition.

 

But I also argue, on basic communication grounds, that real and true can be deemed virtually the same. And why not

 

E.g

 

"I went to make sure he was ok"

 

Can be answered:

 

"Really?"

 

Or

 

"Are you telling the truth?"

 

Both answers imply the same meaning.

 

As much as I understand your answer, I don't see much value in this (unless dealing with someone that really needs to learn about reality vs illusion - wait, that's what this thread is! Maybe I should butt out haha)

[Rara]

 

Reality is that which actually takes place or occurs. Truth is a conceptual mental formation that's considered to be reliable (as opposed to deceptive, unreliable, disappointing in the long run).

 

There may be overlap because conceptual mental formations can be considered to occur (unless you're an eliminationist), even if we can't say when or how exactly they occur, because whatever schema we come up with is easily questionable, but some kind of experience is undeniable.

Ok. Fair point...

 

So how about this.

 

A murders B.

 

The cops bring A in for questioning and A denies everything. Are the cops trying to extract the truth, or reality? Surely the truth can only be the only reliable answer of value?

 

Or reality even. Just linguistics suggests "truth" is the right word to use.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Rara

[Marblehead]

Just the facts, Ma'am, just the facts.