TaoMaster Posted August 25, 2014 In other words, TaoMaster, such labels of yin and yang without thought of the reference point are hardly helpful. You are basically finding clarity in a self-created paradigm. Analogically it could be likened to building a box around yourself and saying you understand everything around you. And moreso it's solidifying the false self rather than obliterating it. thank you for your comment can you tell me the difference between reality and illusion ? or what is reality and what is illusion ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted August 25, 2014 I think illusion is what we perceive when we are stuck in our closed off/down distracted so focused on ourselves state. Then reality is what we can glimpse when looking with our spirit/soul instead of just minds and conditioning. The illusion tends to crumble when we practice and open more and more. Arg these things are difficult to put into words. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) I think illusion is what we perceive when we are stuck in our closed off/down distracted so focused on ourselves state. Then reality is what we can glimpse when looking with our spirit/soul instead of just minds and conditioning. The illusion tends to crumble when we practice and open more and more. Arg these things are difficult to put into words. No joke about it being difficult to express to one's own satisfaction. I tend to think that illusion is any kind of disappointing reliance. I consider all phenomena to be illusory, without exception. All phenomena are disappointing. However that doesn't mean life has to be disappointing. If one's sense of satisfaction is no longer directly tied to any combination/configuration of phenomena, then one can be genuinely happy. This isn't a normal way of thinking because normally we do want phenomena to fall into expected patterns of health, success, social validation, etc., and we tend to suffer no matter what because if we get what we want, we fear to lose it and become anxious, and if we don't get what we want, we remain unfulfilled. The solution is to completely decouple one's happiness from the phenomenal state. An example of what I mean by a disappointing reliance: water in a desert mirage, you try to drink it and it doesn't work, thus leading to disappointment. If one could slake one's thirst by drinking from a desert mirage, it would no longer be disappointing, and then it would stop being an illusion even if it did look whispy. So how things look/feel is irrelevant. Another way to look at illusion is as a false advertisement. Desert mirage advertises water but doesn't provide it. In this way phenomena advertise objects but don't provide actual objects. Edited August 25, 2014 by goldisheavy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted August 25, 2014 I'd say non-duality is big enough to contain duality, (since duality and or the Ten thousand isn't of or connected to a separate root or a root of illusion that can stand on its own) It might also be said that the "One" is big enough to contain all time, all space, all energy, all types of forms, and all beings and the Tao is big enough to contain the One... but these are only words 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted August 25, 2014 I think illusion is what we perceive when we are stuck in our closed off/down distracted so focused on ourselves state. Then reality is what we can glimpse when looking with our spirit/soul instead of just minds and conditioning. The illusion tends to crumble when we practice and open more and more. Arg these things are difficult to put into words. one way to express an oppinion is by a real life example that is common between most people . we all see the sun rise in the am and we see it set . every day and night . id say this is a common experience we all can agree to .. so here is an illusion . when we see a box , it has 6 sides. left and right front and back top and bottom a box we dont see the back of the box only the front because the back is being blocked by the front we see the back when we turn the box around then we say ok there it is , i see it now but hey i dont see the front of the box because its blocked by the front now . the back of the box is now the front and the front is now the back we can never see the front and back of two things at the same time . only one can be real while the other is an illusion . even if we have a mirror to show us the back of the box , we still see the front of the mirror. front can only see front and there is no exception to this law . even when we look at two sides of the front and side together , it becomes the front sides and back sides we can not see at the same times. the illuson is that there is dimension when there is not . Or the illusion is that there is no dimension when there is . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted August 25, 2014 its only theory to those who dont understand it . Its factual for me derived from the word actual . <snip> An aside to the conversation (and maybe pointed out in a later post I haven't read yet) but the two words have distinctly different Latin roots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted August 25, 2014 I'd say non-duality is big enough to contain duality, (since duality and or the Ten thousand isn't of or connected to a separate root or a root of illusion that can stand on its own) It might also be said that the "One" is big enough to contain all time, all space, all energy, all types of forms, and all beings and the Tao is big enough to contain the One... but these are only words first there is the 1 then the next row down from there is the 2nd row 1 x 2 = 2 duality and the law of duality , it looks like my avatar and hs no dimension . row three 2 x 3 = 6 , its box shaped but can also be round also known as a cube . 6 = front back left right top and bottem row 4 6 x 4 = a 24 sided globe and so on until you end up with a perfect circle like the planet , well almost perfect , in order for there to be perfection there must also be inperfection , its a legal issue it resembles more of a circle than a box or cube Im with yoda's camp , well past the 8th section of operation . way way past and there is no one or no thing that can prevent my goals . I am the 1 and always have been . But no matter what it all starts with the 1 Peace !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Nope. You need a zero. " The Nothing That Is"... http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Nothing-That-Natural-History/dp/0713992840/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409006064&sr=8-1&keywords=the+nothing+that+is Edited August 25, 2014 by GrandmasterP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted August 28, 2014 Very good Grand Master....P ( double thumbs up ) Life is zero, 1 is yang and 2 is yin 1 and 2 yang yin , my avatar. Duality . Yang first , then yin but life trumps all things. Both 1 and 2 and 6 and so on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted September 4, 2014 illusions are there in many places. as soon as you spot on itll vanish. like the illusion of time time starts in the future and is suspened in the present by the past future is yang >< Yin is the past present time is whats generated between them both and its what we see feel touch ect . its the physcal universe that everyone is scratching their heads at wondering how the heck do all this stuff get here. ? its simply yang meeting yin . life forms tend to do the same stuff every day like walk, sit , stand, blink, swallow, speak, listen, feel, look around and much more. we did it yesterday and well do it again tomorrow. If we just look at the past present and futre of what we do every day simultainiously , the illusion of time will begin to vanish . Its just allot of doing the same stuff all the time. every thing comes from the future. It all came from the future and landed in the present where we see it now. Its being suspended by the past of this universe. without the past there would be no present time because all things would not stop at the present , they would keep going and vanish like an unwanted casual thought. the future many will say has not come yet. its comming soon tjhough. It always does. when a woman has a baby it comes from the future like all things have. when you vanish the illusion of time , you can trace all creations to the origin but youll be tracing everything back into the future where everything came from . Not the past The past and future are the same . Present time is the illusion . the purpose of this thread is to understand the differences of reality and illusions and similarity too. when the illusion is revealed for what it is, it becomes as real as reality and they both vanish as soon as you take your attention off it . Reality ( yang ) will not exist without the illusion ( yin ) holding it in place in the present . the planet is a yang yin spectrum as well its high pressure solidity with extreme heat at the core and low pressure transparent cold air at the other side of the spectrum . a city has consentrated populations at the core of a city made of solid concrete and then thins out into the suburbs and country sides and softness , just like our planet . illusions come in many ways . Anyone want to share some theyve noticed ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted September 5, 2014 I'd say non-duality is big enough to contain duality, (since duality and or the Ten thousand isn't of or connected to a separate root or a root of illusion that can stand on its own) wait , what ? non duality ? in our universe ?. and whats the ten thousand . ? It might also be said that the "One" is big enough to contain all time, all space, all energy, all types of forms, and all beings and the Tao is big enough to contain the One... but these are only words whats the one ? whats your definition of the tao ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao thx bro !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted September 5, 2014 When people think of "non-duality," they only think of subject/object being a false duality. But in fact, is/is not is an even deeper false duality. *ENLIGHTENMENT!* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted September 5, 2014 When people think of "non-duality," they only think of subject/object being a false duality. But in fact, is/is not is an even deeper false duality. *ENLIGHTENMENT!* can you give us a real life example that we can all relate to ? How is your fact a fact ? what do you mean by subject/object .? i dont see how is><isnt, is a false duality. can you explain ? thank you for your comments Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted September 5, 2014 I can't believe this thing is still going... The planet might look round...until you see it from another dimension. The Sun rising in the AM? It's not doing anything - That's the illusion. Reality is reality- Illusion is us perceiving it inadequately. The End. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted September 5, 2014 I can't believe this thing is still going... The planet might look round...until you see it from another dimension. The Sun rising in the AM? It's not doing anything - That's the illusion. Reality is reality- Illusion is us perceiving it inadequately. the sun goes up and then goes down . Illusion ? can you give us an example of the " another dimension " ? what does it look like from another dimension? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted September 5, 2014 the sun goes up and then goes down . Illusion ? can you give us an example of the " another dimension " ? what does it look like from another dimension? The sequel... The Sun stays put, while the Earth spins and moves around it...giving the appearance of the sun rising and setting around us. (to state the obvious) The stars in the night sky appear to be twinkles on a flat black backdrop...yet they are spaced out across unimaginable distances in 3D space-time. You're not even seeing them, you're interpreting the information from photons they spewed out long ago. Perspective is everything. You only know what you see, smell and feel through your senses - or through scientific innovations, which enhance our natural senses. The desk that I'm sitting at looks fairly smooth...but shrink myself down small enough and it's the Grand Canyon....and vice versa. The word dimension doesn't mean I'm in some parallel universe where people speak backwards and pigs fly...here I'm talking about fractal dimensions. In a way it's like a video game...to save processing power the machine doesn't load far away objects in full detail. It just gives you the basic shape, adding layers and detail as you get closer. However, as far as we currently know, reality does not render. Instead, it's ourselves, our brains that do the rendering based on the current sensory information. Things may appear to be one way (the illusion)...when in fact the reality could be very different (reality on its many fractal dimensions). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) can you give us a real life example that we can all relate to ? How is your fact a fact ? what do you mean by subject/object .? i dont see how isXisnt, is a false duality. can you explain ? thank you for your comments To be, or not to be...is a false duality. Valid only within a frame of reference.. But outside of one... There is no such thing as existing...or not existing. Only "existing." An example of this is a thought in your mind, a dream, a video game playing on your computer screen. Do any of these truly exist...or not...or...? What is the word between yes and no? What is the Middle Way, between all binary boundaries? How can infinity even have boundaries? Edited September 5, 2014 by vortex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 Very good Grand Master....P ( double thumbs up ) Life is zero, 1 is yang and 2 is yin 1 and 2 yang yin , my avatar. Duality . Yang first , then yin but life trumps all things. Both 1 and 2 and 6 and so on Hehehe. NO, No,no. You got it all wrong. 0 (zero) is Yin and 1 (one) is Yang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 When people think of "non-duality," they only think of subject/object being a false duality. But in fact, is/is not is an even deeper false duality. *ENLIGHTENMENT!* I would love to see you eaplain yourself on that one. Hehehe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 I can't believe this thing is still going... The planet might look round...until you see it from another dimension. The Sun rising in the AM? It's not doing anything - That's the illusion. Reality is reality- Illusion is us perceiving it inadequately. The End. But the sun is going around within our galaxy. We can't see that either. We don't have to live with illusions - we can gain understanding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 the sun goes up and then goes down . Illusion ? can you give us an example of the " another dimension " ? what does it look like from another dimension? Your final question is non-applicable. Space/time are the fourth and fifth dimensions. They are eternally linked. Is there a sixth dimension? I have no idea. Space/time is why we cannot go backward in time nor can we go forward in time. The only time that is of validity for any "thing" is the "now" moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 Perspective is everything. You only know what you see, smell and feel through your senses - or through scientific innovations, which enhance our natural senses. I like that and have used it myself many times. But it really is very lame. What is, is, it doesn't matter what our perspective is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 5, 2014 To be, or not to be...is a false duality. Valid only within a frame of reference.. But outside of one... There is no such thing as existing...or not existing. Only "existing." An example of this is a thought in your mind, a dream, a video game playing on your computer screen. Do any of these truly exist...or not...or...? What is the word between yes and no? What is the Middle Way, between all binary boundaries? How can infinity even have boundaries? You did pretty good with that Vortex. Yes, consider only 0 (zero) and 1 (one). There is infinite distance between the two. The zero and one are the Manifest (Yo) and the distance between them is the Mystery (Wu). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silent Answers Posted September 5, 2014 I like that and have used it myself many times. But it really is very lame. What is, is, it doesn't matter what our perspective is. Agreed. I don't really care about getting to other perspective dimensions or wonder much what it would be like, because it's all happening here on this level too in some form. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TaoMaster Posted September 5, 2014 Perspective does exist but the dimension you say you view the planet from is an illusion. Its also the " Why not " you cant give me an example we can all relate too. Illusions are lies about reality. As soon as ypu spot the lie, the truth also presents itself in a yang attribute. MARBLEhEaD..... thx for the comments. Between yes > 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
