Is talking about spirituality and practices useful?

[PLB]

On the up side, I would never have found out about what I am trying to do if a lot of other people didn't talk about it over hundreds of years.

On the down side, hell is other people.

 

I have a small group of people I push with a lot. We all talk about our practice in different ways. Many times the words are all messed up together; A series of conversations we each wish were happening but doesn't. quite get there. Then we touch and something else is going on. I really like that something else. They like it too; The conversation that doesn't require a last word. We have hardly begun.

 

Words and silence are the essence of grammer. Sometimes silence is a gift, joyfully received. Sometimes silence is war, answered in kind. There are whole histories of what happened or did not that are circumscribed between the extremes of possible responses.

 

These words come so easily but are always more than themselves. I get why people feel they are living past lives.

Edited July 22, 2014 by PLB

[sunchild]

if you think speaking to yourself is useful..

[Nungali]

Now with actual students, I find I learn a LOT, as we tend to explore a lot together, and they ask deep questions. But with the meetup group, not so much. Apparently I have to liven it up somehow.

 

We do have our very own troll though, we still love him, but he is most definitely a troll lol. He's to popular to just kick him out.

 

I instantly thought of this guy we had here for a while when I read that. He looked like a little funny troll. There was a joining of two groups (now there is a further fun dynamic! ) . Their was this troll guy and his lesbian friend that moved to the area , they had a magic group before and some came to visit so their group and ours did some stuff togther. All the others (2 - so 4 up all together ) lesbians and they treated this guy like Giordano Bruno's pet dwarf.

 

Then they came to our Rite of Luna and the party afterwards (and after the 9 'libations' in the Rite and some afterwards we were ... well, pissed) some of the girls from our group were all over him and smooching him ( and still in costume from the rite) - he LOVED it ! But the lesbians were furious and doing all this subtle ,,, and not so subtle stuff about it .

 

Classic ... I sat drinking with a male friend and watched it - we compared it to when you throw a limited amount of food into the chook run ... and they aren't really interested in it ..... until one of them gets interested in it.

 

- Yes, there is the social aspect

Edited July 22, 2014 by Nungali

[Songtsan]

We do have one troll who tries to make every single meeting about him, but also there are always 2 different conversations going during every meet... (I can't just kick him out, he's popular and we learned last week that he's been feeling suicidal lately; 2nd Saturn return maybe, or too much internal crap more likely). So distract the troll methods would be handy too!

 

Sounds like hypomania...if he has been feeling suicidal then bipolar. With a person in hypomania state, the action to defuse is a curious one: invite him to expend his energy further until he overcompensates and then swings in the opposite direction. Antagonism will fall short as it can exacerbate the response. To create the desired effect, allow him to overexpress his Yang function by inviting him to stand up and lead the class. He will soon lose his ardor.

 

Once he has run his energy out, he will feel embarrassed and be shy.

 

Short-term sacrifice for long term gain.

 

Put energy lions to work. When they realize they were running on puffed up steam, they will learn to be compliant to group needs.

[Stosh]

Cause having every single meeting being about how we should all convert to Islam and how he has crossed the abyss and is an adept, gets really old really fast lol.

 

But you do have a point, perhaps I should bring a good book .

 

Fortunately only 1 member is thinking of not attending because of him... (he's been kicked out of 2 previous meetup groups!)

 

Hmmm, perhaps I should bring a book for *him* to read .

Well one must decide whether to push or pull , if you want something to move,

SO ,spoken In a strong clear and certain voice ,,,

" I didnt come here to talk about Islam , so ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"

and you can fill in the blank -

I think the sages would follow with , lemme know when X is gone.

The yang version includes threats and ultimatums, like- Youre out of here X .

 

Look, X has been kicked out of things before , and he is again bringing the same cycle to fruit.

Odds are, that he isnt going to kill himself this time either.

You personally dont sound very wound up over this meetup thing as it stands,

to the point where you would really be pressed to go the way of conflict.

Walking away should be a reasonable choice.

[Mystique Enigma]

The biggest mistake by most human beings: Listening half, understanding quarter and telling double......

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

Sounds like hypomania...if he has been feeling suicidal then bipolar. With a person in hypomania state, the action to defuse is a curious one: invite him to expend his energy further until he overcompensates and then swings in the opposite direction. Antagonism will fall short as it can exacerbate the response. To create the desired effect, allow him to overexpress his Yang function by inviting him to stand up and lead the class. He will soon lose his ardor.

 

Once he has run his energy out, he will feel embarrassed and be shy.

 

Short-term sacrifice for long term gain.

 

Put energy lions to work. When they realize they were running on puffed up steam, they will learn to be compliant to group needs.

 

I had not seen him depressed like this before, and I've known him for 10 years. (and people say I'm not patient!) He is 62, so in his case, very stuck in his ways. I have suggested he start his own meetup group heh. I like the idea of having him lead some talks. On the weeks I'm busy of course . I have not seen him manic ever that I have noticed...

[BaguaKicksAss]

I instantly thought of this guy we had here for a while when I read that. He looked like a little funny troll. There was a joining of two groups (now there is a further fun dynamic! ) . Their was this troll guy and his lesbian friend that moved to the area , they had a magic group before and some came to visit so their group and ours did some stuff togther. All the others (2 - so 4 up all together ) lesbians and they treated this guy like Giordano Bruno's pet dwarf.

 

Then they came to our Rite of Luna and the party afterwards (and after the 9 'libations' in the Rite and some afterwards we were ... well, pissed) some of the girls from our group were all over him and smooching him ( and still in costume from the rite) - he LOVED it ! But the lesbians were furious and doing all this subtle ,,, and not so subtle stuff about it .

 

Classic ... I sat drinking with a male friend and watched it - we compared it to when you throw a limited amount of food into the chook run ... and they aren't really interested in it ..... until one of them gets interested in it.

 

- Yes, there is the social aspect

 

How similar he is to our TTBs Muslim is truly amazing! Well accept our local guy practices magic, where the TTBs guy feels it's evil, but close enough; the local guy feels all magic but that approved by his Deity is evil . (even healing)

 

Now our local guy, if he had several women around him after a ritual, I think perhaps he would finally relax *and* smile! Though he did date someone for a year... she was a very sweet and patient soul. We were all so happy for him!

[manitou]

I had not seen him depressed like this before, and I've known him for 10 years. (and people say I'm not patient!) He is 62, so in his case, very stuck in his ways. I have suggested he start his own meetup group heh. I like the idea of having him lead some talks. On the weeks I'm busy of course . I have not seen him manic ever that I have noticed...

 

Like it says in the TTC, maybe something inside him has to be inflated before it can be deflated.

[BaguaKicksAss]

On a side note, he has been practicing for 18 years....

 

Practice does not lead to awesome social skills, always, apparently .

[Nungali]

How similar he is to our TTBs Muslim is truly amazing! Well accept our local guy practices magic, where the TTBs guy feels it's evil, but close enough; the local guy feels all magic but that approved by his Deity is evil . (even healing)

 

Now our local guy, if he had several women around him after a ritual, I think perhaps he would finally relax *and* smile! Though he did date someone for a year... she was a very sweet and patient soul. We were all so happy for him!

 

Why not cast him as Sol in the Rite of Sol

 

 

[Enter SCORPIO-APOPHIS dressed in a filmy white robe, her hair in disorder.]

 

[ARIES and LEO rise and bow.

 

ARIES. Hail thou! Whence comest thou?

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. From the House of God.

 

ARIES. What bringest thou as an offering to our Lord?

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. The House of God is fallen. There is nothing left therein. Therefore I bring nothing but myself.

 

LEO. Let us burn her upon the altar of burnt offering.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the fire my tears would be dried up; and these tears are of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us throw her to the sacred crocodile.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the water my heart would be chilled; and this heart is of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us throw her to the winds from the Watchtowers of Silence.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the wind my hymns would not be heard, and these hymns are of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us bury her in the consecrated mountain!

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the earth the worms would devour my flesh; and this flesh is of mine offering to the Lord. Oh

Lord, let thy servants return unto their thrones that I may worship Thee as I will.

 

SOL. 22-1-1-22

 

[ARIES and LEO return to their thrones.

 

[sCORPIO-APOPHIS plays her passionate melody, her siren melody, her despairing "Venus in Tannhauser" melody. Liebestod from Tristan and Isolde: Wagner. She clasps the feet and knees of SOL ............

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Nungali

[Songtsan]

Research Sufism and you will find it extremely similar to Taoism. Sufism is unorthodox Islam. When the translation is made, they are nearly twinned.

 

See sites like: http://www.seekeraftertruth.com/toshihiko-izutsu-sufism-taoism/

 

etc.

 

if you wish to counteract his arguments and trump him, speak his lingo and he will become mute in consternation.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Research Sufism and you will find it extremely similar to Taoism. Sufism is unorthodox Islam. When the translation is made, they are nearly twinned.

 

See sites like: http://www.seekeraftertruth.com/toshihiko-izutsu-sufism-taoism/

 

etc.

 

if you wish to counteract his arguments and trump him, speak his lingo and he will become mute in consternation.

 

Sounds like too much work to me . The Sufi stuff I have read is quite awesome though .

 

Hmmm, next meetup he brings up his religion, I think I will divert the conversation in that direction though.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Why not cast him as Sol in the Rite of Sol

 

 

[Enter SCORPIO-APOPHIS dressed in a filmy white robe, her hair in disorder.]

 

[ARIES and LEO rise and bow.

 

ARIES. Hail thou! Whence comest thou?

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. From the House of God.

 

ARIES. What bringest thou as an offering to our Lord?

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. The House of God is fallen. There is nothing left therein. Therefore I bring nothing but myself.

 

LEO. Let us burn her upon the altar of burnt offering.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the fire my tears would be dried up; and these tears are of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us throw her to the sacred crocodile.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the water my heart would be chilled; and this heart is of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us throw her to the winds from the Watchtowers of Silence.

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the wind my hymns would not be heard, and these hymns are of mine offering to the Lord.

 

LEO. Let us bury her in the consecrated mountain!

 

SCORPIO-APOPHIS. But in the earth the worms would devour my flesh; and this flesh is of mine offering to the Lord. Oh

Lord, let thy servants return unto their thrones that I may worship Thee as I will.

 

SOL. 22-1-1-22

 

[ARIES and LEO return to their thrones.

 

[sCORPIO-APOPHIS plays her passionate melody, her siren melody, her despairing "Venus in Tannhauser" melody. Liebestod from Tristan and Isolde: Wagner. She clasps the feet and knees of SOL ............

 

 

NICE! lol (though I refuse to let someone who does that many dark workings in my temple; keep in mind this is coming from the person who invites Daemons in for coffee...)

[BaguaKicksAss]

Anyways... I'm going to devise a plan... where we somehow get some work done during these meetups. Even if it is just bringing paper and pencils and we all draw tarot cards or something. Or perhaps modeling clay talismans. Or having everyone write down the 12 things they wish to improve (even more) about themselves in the next 365 days (but don't have to read them out loud obviously).... something...

 

Though I did find, after the Buddhist TSOK last night, my ride home and I talked for over an hour and it was awesome, and we both gained from it. I just have to figure out what the differences are. The group talk at the temple right after the event was just more mundane getting to know each other, but the ride home was all about spiritual and magical stuff..

[BaguaKicksAss]

and along those lines, one on one, I have found that PMs, emails and chats with members on here can be truly amazing sometimes!

[Nungali]

Sounds like too much work to me . The Sufi stuff I have read is quite awesome though .

 

Hmmm, next meetup he brings up his religion, I think I will divert the conversation in that direction though.

 

There is most probably an apt Mullah Nasruddin story that would suit his current issues

[ThisLife]

 

There is most probably an apt Mullah Nasruddin story that would suit his current issues

 

Richard Sylvester: "Perhaps some of us have too much respect for the words of dead Indians. Others of us may have too much respect for the words of dead Hebrew prophets or dead Italian Cardinals. Therefore we do not recognise how over the centuries the mind builds complexity on complexity on top of an original insight into ultimate reality, like the monstrous temple built on top of Nasruddin's dead donkey."

 

*

 

"One day, Nasruddin's father, who was a famous spiritual teacher with a huge temple and many thousands of followers, became so fed up with his wastrel son that he sent him packing with just the clothes he stood up in and his decrepit and aged donkey for company.

 

Nasruddin roamed aimlessly till he was far from home in a strange country. He was miserable and tired and to make matters worse, his donkey suddenly keeled over and died. Nasruddin was so downhearted that he just sat down in the dirt beside the dead donkey and sank his head into his hands.

 

After a while, a group of travellers came by. They saw Nasruddin sitting wretchedly by his donkey's corpse and they said to each other “This poor man has been so saddened by the death of his donkey that he does not even have the heart to bury it. Let us out of charity bury the beast for him.” So they set about burying the donkey and then proceeded on their way, leaving Nasruddin sitting silently by the burial mound.

 

After a while some more travellers came by and seeing Nasruddin and the mound, they thought that perhaps Nasruddin was grieving the loss of a friend. They too took pity on him, saying “See. This poor unhappy man is so saddened by the loss of his friend and travelling companion, that though he has buried him he has no strength to erect a little memorial for him. Let us build a small pile of rocks on the burial mound to comfort the wretched fellow.” So they built a little cairn of rocks and went on their way, leaving Nasruddin sitting silently by the cairn.

 

Some time later another group of travellers came by. Seeing Nasruddin, the mound and the cairn of rocks they thought that perhaps a rather important man, perhaps a teacher, had died and that Nasruddin might be his devoted follower who would not leave his grave. So they determined to build a little mausoleum over the grave to show respect. Nasruddin watched them without saying a word and continued to sit there after they'd left.

 

After a while, another group of travellers came by. Seeing Nasruddin and the rather impressive little building, they thought perhaps that Nasruddin might be a teacher and the mausoleum his temple, built maybe by some followers of his. Out of respect, they added a wing at both ends of the temple, and then sat down by Nasruddin to imbibe his wisdom.

 

Gradually, more and more travellers came by. Each added a little more to the temple, then sat to drink in the spirit of this master, until there was an enormous temple and there were hundreds of followers. Still Nasruddin hadn't said a word. As Nasruddin's fame spread, the hundreds of followers became thousands, until word even reached his father, far away in his own temple, about this great holy man who had so many devotees.

 

Nasruddin's father determined to travel to this teacher to see for himself his great spiritual aura. Eventually he reached the huge temple, and after pushing his way through the great throngs of people he was astonished to see his son, the wastrel Nasruddin, sitting on a great velvet cushion on an ornate golden throne, still not saying a word.

 

As soon as he was able to, his father approached Nasruddin in private and said “My son. I'm amazed. Tell me, how did you become such a great teacher with so many followers?” So Nasruddin told him everything, starting with the dead donkey and finishing with the mighty temple and the crowds of devotees.

 

When he had finished his father looked at him in silence for a moment and then said “That's incredible. Exactly the same thing happened to me.”

Edited July 23, 2014 by ThisLife