What's REALLY possible from Magic/Magik/Magick? What have you achieved?

[kamilavalamp]

OK bitch mode *off*, sorry about earlier . My hope though is that those new to the path do not think that what you described is how magic works or what they should be looking for. Generally if a practitioner feels they have had that many experiences within 10 years or less, they should get out of the house more, do some hiking, go to the gym, work some overtime, and just focus on real solid physical activities for a time to ground.

 

Sounds like you had some nasty spirits on the astral messing with you. I recommend not astral traveling if it ends up this way on a regular basis. You said you have not astral traveled in awhile, that is probably good. There are of course protections you can set up before you head out. Also one has to look into their internal realm, what internal unresolved stuff that we have, which allows that to happen to us. Magic perfects ourselves through our own work and helps us get to know inside out the inner realms. This is the primary goal; all else being secondary, and always leading back to the primary focus. (imo/ymmv) What we have happen "externally" is a guide map and picture of our internal world. While I personally beleive there are most definitely external things, beings, experiences and etc., they still mirror who we are, as we are drawn to and attracted by that which is alike, and vice versa.

 

Yeah teachers give info bit by bit since students can't practice very well in the local asylum. Well also if you were experiencing actual damage from your practices, slowing down until you are a bit stronger/know more would have naturally been the best route to go.

 

There are many things which only appear on the astral realm, and don't have a physical nor other planes counterpart. Some feel that the astral is more like a vacation then getting any real work done. Also the astral being so changeable and transient can lead to our imagination getting ahead of ourselves. What I mean is half of what we feel we experience being more ourselves than what is.

 

Regarding forcing progress with sigil magic... while it works, there are things much more potent and much stronger to do such things. (the real stuff isn't in books). Also forcing progress doesn't actually progress a person that far (trust me, I should have an honorary PHD in this department lol), since you progress on one level and in one way, but the rest of you/what is gained through slow progress is also needed. You end up with hollow skill and ability, and run many more risks. Seen this many times. So one can run ahead too quickly though, which can cause a lot of trouble, especially if the person has natural talent. You open up parts of yourself, and parts of other places, which one is not yet ready for. Some people go get into bar fights in their first year of martial arts too...

 

The not being able to read on the astral is really frustrating! Especially when you end up in one of those magical schools *grumble* lol.

 

Though if you came back with physical damage and aren't exaggerating (nothing personal, just that most practitioners who talk about magic online really do exaggerate a lot) then you were perhaps not on the astral plane in particular. You would find Robert Bruce's works interesting.

3 questions

1.) Is it common to not be able to read during projection?

2.) If I was not in the astral plane when I got hurt where was I? I almost died from it.

3.) Bad Spirits is right I have had night terrors about being in pit fights against demons since I was 2 years old and I never realized until I started Astral Projecting that they were not just simple Nightmares. There was no way that a 2 year old who never even saw a horror movie could imagine getting shredded by demons. My teacher told me it was because of my "Heritage". I have resolved that problem since but what do you think about why I attract bad spirits Bagua?

[Nungali]

I'm currently doing some Quareia , if you want to learn/try some magic you might find it useful.

 

" But any adept that is officially recognised by this school will have a world wide reputation as a properly fully trained and fully capable magical adept."

 

< raises an eyebrow >

 

I was promised the same thing back in the '70s - just substitute 'magical' for ' Shotokan karate' .

[Nungali]

Uhhh... Sorry but I would have to disagree. Anything that exists, any process or phenoenon that exists, has a physical and scientific explanation behind it. If it doesn't, then it doens't exist. There is no such thing as magic.

 

Please outline the physical and scientific explanation of 'mind' or 'consciousness'.

 

http://www.eb.tuebingen.mpg.de/fileadmin/uploads/images/Research/emeriti/Alfred_Gierer/Curriculum-v_PDF/brain-mind-bioess.pdf

[Nungali]

If you are looking for a field guide such as these, I would recommend any of the many free and superb books from The Project Gutenberg - look under Theosophical Society.

 

A bit confused here Mr Spotless - are you saying 'such as these' referring to the books I linked? That the Theosophical Society has writings that come to the same theoretical conclusion as Harpur's ?

[Nungali]

As magic becomes more scientific, science becomes more magical.

 

Mmm -hmmm .... if you construct an averse Tree of Life (as after those depicted in Hermetic Kabbalah) its pretty much 'M-Theory'.

 

" According to Witten, the M in M-theory can stand for "magic", "mystery", or "matrix" "

 

There ya go Ken

[Nungali]

Changing my post to:

 

I'm extremely skeptical and figure there is either a lot of exaggeration, and/or way too much time on the astral going on here.

 

Are you sure about that? Ever since Isimsiz biri stopped his astral rampage ( with Samurai sword and period armour) around here ....

 

.... now look what's happened !

 

 

 

< snicker >

[Nungali]

It does sound crazy but I did those things. Call me crazy if you want but please don't call it B.S.

 

As I said .... its all closely linked to the imagination.

 

I might quote Crowley on the subject .... just for fun ... and because I like fireworks

 

" 2. In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.

 

It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.

 

3. The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these:

("a") A widening of the horizon of the mind.

("b") An improvement of the control of the mind.

 

4. The student, if he attains any success in the following practices, will find himself confronted by things (ideas or beings) too glorious or too dreadful to be described. It is essential that he remain the master of all that he beholds, hears or conceives; otherwise he will be the slave of illusion, and the prey of madness.

 

Before entering upon any of these practices, the student should be in good health, and have attained a fair mastery of Asana, Pranayama and Dharana. .........

 

" There is little danger that any student, however idle or stupid, will fail to get some result; but there is great danger that he will be led astray, obsessed and overwhelmed by his results, even though it be by those which it is necessary that he should attain. .....

 

" It is desirable that the student should never attach to any result the importance which it at first seems to possess.

 

" Let him imagine his own figure (preferably robed in the proper magical garments and armed with the proper magical weapons) as enveloping his physical body, or standing near to and in front of him.

 

3. Let him then transfer the seat of his consciousness to that imagined figure; so that it may seem to him that he is seeing with its eyes, and hearing with its ears.

 

This will usually be the great difficulty of the operation.

4. Let him then cause that imagined figure to rise in the air to a great height above the earth.

 

5. Let him then stop and look about him. (It is sometimes difficult to open the eyes.)

 

6. Probably he will see figures approaching him, or become conscious of a landscape. [my emphasis]

 

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6.html

[Sebastian]

I would sure hope that they don't offer how to evoke to complete random strangers on the internet for free... especially those who haven't been at it for at least 5 years. If so perhaps they should teach them how to summon Darwin first .

 

They do, and they teach even more powerful things.

[Nungali]

3.) Bad Spirits is right I have had night terrors about being in pit fights against demons since I was 2 years old and I never realized until I started Astral Projecting that they were not just simple Nightmares. There was no way that a 2 year old who never even saw a horror movie could imagine getting shredded by demons.

 

Well ... there is the key.

 

You should read this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror ( as an intro , if you arent familar with it )

 

... and associated articles on the frontal lobe.

 

I worked with a girl who would wake up and be conscious (according to her) , a demonic from of herself would enter her room, paralyze her , start ripping bits off her body and eating them.

 

I cant go into it more fully here ... its in a trail of breadcrumbs left by Nungali posts here and there.

 

Again I have to refer to dr Wilson VanDusen, Swedenborg ... and the concept of the 'sleeping crocodile within'. {Which can manifest in an individual or cultural 'entity'.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Nungali

[eye_of_the_storm]

I believe you kamilavalamp

What is your heritage if you don't mind me asking?

Edited July 28, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[KenBrace]

Exactly, so about time you got past your limited beliefs .

 

I don't really see how it's limited. It makes sense that any real phenomenon has a scientific and physical process behind it. If not, then it doesn't exist.

[KenBrace]

Please outline the physical and scientific explanation of 'mind' or 'consciousness'.

 

http://www.eb.tuebingen.mpg.de/fileadmin/uploads/images/Research/emeriti/Alfred_Gierer/Curriculum-v_PDF/brain-mind-bioess.pdf

 

I never claimed to be able to scientifically explain every known phenomenon. I simply stated that for anything that exists, there is a physical process causing it. That includes consciousness. There is a scientific and physical process behind consciousness even though modern science hasn't yet figured it out.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I don't really see how it's limited. It makes sense that any real phenomenon has a scientific and physical process behind it. If not, then it doesn't exist.

 

Science is far far behind. Mathematics used to be considered occult/magic and thus evil, back in the day lol.

[KenBrace]

Science is far far behind. Mathematics used to be considered occult/magic and thus evil, back in the day lol.

 

I would agree with that. It's just humanity's ignorance though. If magic exists, then it has a science. I wouldn't use the word "magic" anyway though. It tends to be tied to "supernatural" which also exist. Best not to use those words imo even if you are referring to something real and scientific.

Edited July 29, 2014 by KenBrace

[idiot_stimpy]

As I said .... its all closely linked to the imagination.

 

I might quote Crowley on the subject .... just for fun ... and because I like fireworks

 

........

 

5. Let him then stop and look about him. (It is sometimes difficult to open the eyes.)

 

6. Probably he will see figures approaching him, or become conscious of a landscape. [my emphasis]

 

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6.html

 

Is this astral projection? From my perception it sounds like daydreaming. I can daydream at will, but I know its just that, a dream.

[Brian]

 

" But any adept that is officially recognised by this school will have a world wide reputation as a properly fully trained and fully capable magical adept."

 

< raises an eyebrow >

 

I was promised the same thing back in the '70s - just substitute 'magical' for ' Shotokan karate' .

So was I!!!

[BaguaKicksAss]

3 questions

1.) Is it common to not be able to read during projection?

2.) If I was not in the astral plane when I got hurt where was I? I almost died from it.

3.) Bad Spirits is right I have had night terrors about being in pit fights against demons since I was 2 years old and I never realized until I started Astral Projecting that they were not just simple Nightmares. There was no way that a 2 year old who never even saw a horror movie could imagine getting shredded by demons. My teacher told me it was because of my "Heritage". I have resolved that problem since but what do you think about why I attract bad spirits Bagua?

 

1. Actually yes very.

2. Robert Bruce is quite the expert on such things, I recommend reading some of his work.

3. Most likely pure chance, wrong place at the wrong time, saw or experienced something terrifying that your baby mind couldn't handle very well, and it stuck with you over the years as night terrors. Traumas are sort of like this. Also possible you just had some nasty entity around you over the years. Why you? Usually it's just random chance. Or someone you were living with was putting off some pretty bad energy and thus attracting things. If it is resolved not something to worry about to much.

[BaguaKicksAss]

They do, and they teach even more powerful things.

 

I checked, nope.

 

*whew* lol

 

Basically the standard fare for a magician going through their first few years. Similar to the books, but you get feedback and guidance from what I can tell.

 

Sorta free, is crowd funded, so the teacher can do that instead of a day job. Neat idea.

[Nungali]

I never claimed to be able to scientifically explain every known phenomenon. I simply stated that for anything that exists, there is a physical process causing it. That includes consciousness. There is a scientific and physical process behind consciousness even though modern science hasn't yet figured it out.

 

You do realise what you just wrote then didnt you ?

 

"There is a scientific and physical process behind consciousness even though modern science hasn't yet figured it out."

 

 

 

This is Scientism. Not science.

 

Scientism is a sort of materialistic fundamentalism ... far removed from science ... although it purports to be science.

 

When examined it is a rather strange phenomena , as it claims science as the 'golden rule' , the one 'singular reality' of a material universe, the thing that can explain everything !

 

Even if it cant now ..... it will be able to in the future .

 

Its that old 'time travelling scientist' again ... he works like this:

 

'Science' can explain .... ( insert what you will here ,,, the creation of life ... the Universe, etc ... ) by demonstrating ;

 

a + b + c + ( something we will work out or know in the future ) + d = f

 

Or my all time favourite (from the 'Readers Digest Book of Facts - my emphasis ) ; Scientists know how life was created on earth, they combined chemicals in a flask which would have been similar to those present in the primordial ocean , then they passed electricity through it to represent lightning and later found the basic building blocks of amino acids had been formed, which are essential components of cells. The first cells became more complex and evolution .... ( blah blah) ... in the future science will be able to understand how the first cell like structures developed into alive self-replicating cells.

 

 

I can imagine myself doing a 'scientific' experiment in front of a group of scientists. The middle part of the experiment is missing ... but dont worry, next year another scientists will be along to do that bit ... so there ! my theory is proved scientifically.

 

What a joke!

 

Magic can explain everything ... its just that we havent quiet figured it all out yet

[Nungali]

I don't really see how it's limited. It makes sense that any real phenomenon has a scientific and physical process behind it. If not, then it doesn't exist.

 

That sort of reasoning might make sense to you ... but it doesnt make any sense of itself.

 

Boy ! .... if I assumed things that didnt 'make sense' to me , at the time, didn't exist ........

 

 

 

[wangchungman]

Hello,

 

I'm just interested in the scope of what is supposedly possible through magical practices, AND, would like to hear personal stories of what any of you've managed to achieve through it.

 

Primarily interested in ESP and healing stuff, but, any manifestation, Siddhi/Siddhis in general, invocations, OBE, Astral Travel, anything interesting I guess.

 

Cheers guys

 

If you can do all the material preparations in John Dee's system, you will have many visions and learn a lot. I am not someone who is going to practice a lot of repetitive things. I like this system because it gets you into a higher state of consciousness by just saying or even just imagining the words or letters. But, you have to prepare the table, the ring, the wax sigils, etc., So if you can do an art project you will experience very serious encounters. There are eastern systems that are similar to this in the sense of an invocation in the imagination that will directly put you into an encounter with experiences quickly as well.

 

To sum up: Magic of a high order can 1) put you into a samadhi at the level of a master just by saying the words and performing the ritual; 2) allow you to experience all sorts of divine things like prophesy within that very session or in dreams; and 3) get you whatever you want. But you have to be very careful about this part, I found. If your wishes are tainted by desire, then you will reap a painful result. So it is important to do the invocations after ample prayers, confessions, altruistic aspirations, etc., to get one's karma situated in such a way that one's wishes will benefit the world.

[Nungali]

Is this astral projection? From my perception it sounds like daydreaming. I can daydream at will, but I know its just that, a dream.

 

For me, at times, it makes little difference.

 

I was daydreaming yesterday afternoon, resting on the bed ... definitely 'day dreaming' ... allowing my mind to go as BF crazy as it wanted. It travelled back in time to ancient Australia, I was half watching, half being, an Australian Aboriginal. (Okay thats normal so far, I could have invoked or wanted that ... in a way, I am still in control of my own vision ... BUT ) - totally 'out of the blue' and for 'no reason' ...

 

 

a little space ship zooms down, crashes into the ground, skids along and leaves a furrow. The other aboriginal people, freak out and run away but I/him get curious and go closer to look at it. it unfolds little legs and starts walking out of the little crater, everyone is nervous and doesnt want to go near it , but I/he talk to it and it starts following me as I walk away . But it is walking funny, like it has a limp. I look closer and one of the bottom of one of the the legs is broken, its just held on by wires and tubes and I can see a the metal is broken. So I say to the others, "Its okay, he's just a little fella with a broken foot."

 

So I get a stick and some dried grass and hold the metal back together, splint it with the stick and bind it. We walk off happily together.

 

I come out of it .... WTF was that about ? ! ? < makes a cup of tea muttering to self : ' ... sometimes ... I even wonder about myself! ' >

 

I take it outside to sit in the garden and the Brush Turkey comes out the bushes and follows me. hes hanging around me more than normal and wont piss off. Then he comes right up and stands right next to me staring at me .

 

"What!?"

 

So I shooed him off. ... then noticed he was limping ... I looked down and ... they have rather long separated spindly toes ....

 

one of his toes is broken and bent at the wrong ankle.

 

No, I dont know what that means .

[Nungali]

So was I!!!

 

 

" You will be able to go into any karate school and train there and maintain your grading and where the belt you have ... but if they come to train with us ... its back to white belt. "

 

" Now .... mwa ha ha har ... back to my evil plan of JKA world domination ! "

[Michael Sternbach]

 

" You will be able to go into any karate school and train there and maintain your grading and where the belt you have ... but if they come to train with us ... its back to white belt. "

 

" Now .... mwa ha ha har ... back to my evil plan of JKA world domination ! "

It was not before I had trained in a JKA dojo a number of years that I found out that "Traditional Shotokan Karate" is quite far removed from what Gichin Funakoshi and the Okinawans were doing. It's all right, if you want to do it as a sport. There are only a handful of maverick schools trying their best to reintegrate all the knowledge left behind when Okinawan Karate was introduced to the Japanese mainland.

 

But I observe this movement "back to the roots" in other martial arts as well, including Chinese styles. I think it's an interesting trend.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[KenBrace]

You do realise what you just wrote then didnt you ?

 

"There is a scientific and physical process behind consciousness even though modern science hasn't yet figured it out."

 

 

 

This is Scientism. Not science.

 

Scientism is a sort of materialistic fundamentalism ... far removed from science ... although it purports to be science.

 

When examined it is a rather strange phenomena , as it claims science as the 'golden rule' , the one 'singular reality' of a material universe, the thing that can explain everything !

 

Even if it cant now ..... it will be able to in the future .

 

Its that old 'time travelling scientist' again ... he works like this:

 

'Science' can explain .... ( insert what you will here ,,, the creation of life ... the Universe, etc ... ) by demonstrating ;

 

a + b + c + ( something we will work out or know in the future ) + d = f

 

Or my all time favourite (from the 'Readers Digest Book of Facts - my emphasis ) ; Scientists know how life was created on earth, they combined chemicals in a flask which would have been similar to those present in the primordial ocean , then they passed electricity through it to represent lightning and later found the basic building blocks of amino acids had been formed, which are essential components of cells. The first cells became more complex and evolution .... ( blah blah) ... in the future science will be able to understand how the first cell like structures developed into alive self-replicating cells.

 

 

I can imagine myself doing a 'scientific' experiment in front of a group of scientists. The middle part of the experiment is missing ... but dont worry, next year another scientists will be along to do that bit ... so there ! my theory is proved scientifically.

 

What a joke!

 

Magic can explain everything ... its just that we havent quiet figured it all out yet

 

Magic doesn't exist.

 

The supernatural doesn't exist.

 

The only thing that exists is reality.

 

Anything in reality exists because there is a physical and scientific process behind it.

 

Therefore science can explain everything.

 

The only reason that things like setting paper on fire, talking to the dead, and levitating into the air are considered "magic" by most people is due to the current ignorance of the scientific community.

Edited July 30, 2014 by KenBrace