Wuliupai school

[alchemist]

Ah yes ok, as I am not speaking Russian, can you tell me the equivalent in Daoist terms?

That may differ depending on the context. That's why I don't recommend to use this term.

BR

[Andrei]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arhat

[MooNiNite]

i like how buddhists refer to spiritual immortals (arhat) as "worthy ones" almost like an external consciousness decides that

Edited August 15, 2014 by MooNiNite

[Yae]

Another person who might know have some information out there about this [yuan qi] is Damo Mitchell. I am in the middle of watching some of his videos where he briefly touches upon yuan shen and yuan qi before moving into yuan jing and how it is a vibratory quality that is not in the body per say, and that in alchemy the body dissolves and you can perceive yuan jing as a certain kind of light. Seems like it might be up your alley.

- TB member Creation

 

Does this soft explanation of yuan qi sound acceptable to WLP people? I'm not sure what the body dissolving means though. Transition to light body maybe.

[alchemist]

 

Does this soft explanation of yuan qi sound acceptable to WLP people? I'm not sure what the body dissolving means though. Transition to light body maybe.

Hi Bluemind,

I wouldn't like to discuss the opinion that was not originally posted in this topic. So I can only say that in the quote above, there are things that correspond to WLP theory, and things that do not.

BR

[SecretGrotto]

Foundations of Internal Alchemy - Wang Mu

Physicians maintain that clearing the Function and Control vessels is the Lesser Celestial Circuit ( xiao zhoutian ), and that clearing the Eight Vessels is the Greater Celestial Circuit ( da zhoutian ). From the point of view of the alchemical practice, instead, both of these methods pertain to the initial stage. Therefore the terminology used in the alchemical texts and in present- day Qigong is not the same.

 

For the alchemical texts, in particular, “clearing the Breath” means clearing the Function and Control vessels; “circulating the Medicine” refers to the cycle of the River Chariot ( heche , i.e., the Lesser Celestial Circuit); and “nourishing the Medicine” refers to the Greater Celestial Circuit. The routes are the same, but the functions are different.

 

Other terms and expressions related to the Barrier of the Hundred Days ( bairi guan ) include “Yang ascends and Yin descends,” “advancing the Fire and withdrawing in response” ( jinhuo tuifu ), “turning around the Three Chariots” ( sanche yunzhuan ), “Zhun ䷂ in the morning and Meng ䷃ in the evening,” “causing the hexagrams to revolve,” and “turning the Wheel of the Dharma.” The goal of the stage of “laying the foundations” is replenishing the shortages in the vital functions of the body.

 

Clearing the Function and Control vessels and clearing the three Barriers consists only in permeating these vessels with “postcelestial breath” ( houtian qi ), which circulates following a cyclical route and makes them clear. It should be noted that at this time the Medicine has not yet been formed: this practice is only done in preparation for the stage of “refining Essence and transmuting it into Breath.” Nevertheless, from a medical point of view, the circulation of breath and blood through unobstructed conduits is of great benefit for “nourishing life” ( yangsheng ) and for the treatment of illnesses.

 

 

Master of Single Yang says real SHO has Elixir flows top-down dropping into LDT:

 

What is called "Heavenly Circuit."

Author: (translation DA Artemyev)

 

The student asked:

There are some practitioners who themselves feel like chi rotates through channels Ren and Du, and therefore declare that they have opened their own channels. This way of opening channels of Ren and Du by thought, and other similar methods of "conducting channels of the heavenly circle", whether they differ from the way the elixir?

 

Single Master Yang replied,

We have already discussed the principle that "if the body is not the true seed is just as water and fire to boil an empty pot" and its harm to practitioners. Such practitioners, feeling as "chi moves through the channels Ren and Du", accelerate the loss of self-Jing is a way to accelerate the approach of death, which has a lot of harm and no benefit.It's just a false, indirect method of improvement.

 

Our school, Chunsyuya-huai Liu presents a dual improvement and Shin Min, what is called the "heavenly circle" - is actually "a heavenly elixir way round." After the pupils of the school will produce "true seed", the channels Ren and Du Qi circulates not, and the "true water", the whereabouts of her feeling is also different. In a way, these are the elixir of channels with the former Qi sky, in a top-down flows gyre "sweet dew", just dropping into the lower Dantian, this is real, and not imagined.

 

At the same kinds of "heavenly circle" qigong, external qi revolves draining ching body. Heavenly Circuit elixir way leads to longevity, increases the Yuan Jin and Yuan-chi in the body, "heavenly circle" qigong leads to the depletion of the yuan-ching, leads to death.

Once the student has completed the School of "seed elixir" celestial circle alchemy starts itself and will last for ever, collecting "small medicine", making up their own yuan-Jin and Yuan-chi, which is a huge benefit and has no damage.

 

 

Student of student of Wang Liping describes the same real SHO:

 

http://longmenpai.blogspot.com

Not long after, true breath appeared. After more than 10 minutes, qi slowly flowed into the lower field. Qi moved strongly inside my lower field and it was very hot. I could also feel granular shaped qi in the lower field, probably because it wasn’t dissolved completely. Then I did five-element cycle three times and took qi back to the lower field. I still felt that the qi wasn’t completely dissolved but my legs hurt too much so I stopped.

 

7th
Morning: Half lotus, light shifted and spun in front of my eyes. After collecting it down to lower field, qi started moving between the middle and lower field.
Today, we discussed the third chapter, the mating of dragon and tiger.
Evening: Full lotus, light appeared immediately, collected it to lower field. One cycle of five elements and the macro orbit started running. After that, I did the five-element cycle again, when it reached my lungs, the macro orbit started again.

 

3rd
Early Morning: Stood in front of the old divine tree, spirit light appeared immediately. The circular light was white and sightly brown outside and black in the center. After pulling it a bit, the color changed to white outside with some rainbow color and the center was gold color. Retrieved it back to lower field and it began spinning immediately, the qi circulated in big and small circles and in different directions. 

 

1st June
Early Morning: After greeting the divine tree, I closed my eyes and regulated my breathing, the spirit light appeared immediately. I condensed it to the size of a green bean and put it into my lower field, the qi in the lower field began to vibrate. The amplitude was small in the beginning but then it got greater and greater and even moved back and forth inside my Dai mai, there was some small pain. Afterward qi in my right kidney started spinning and then my left kidney. Qi in the lower field circulated in big and then small circles. After letting it be for about 30 minutes I started zhan zhuang. The same phenomenon appeared. During five elements, the qi moved between my lower and middle fields.

 

Macrocosmic orbit ran for several dozen times together with all the meridians. Then ancestral chamber practice, I did it twice and collected the light in the lower field. Since I felt that the qi did not dissolve completely in my lower field, so I increased my intention to dissolve the qi in the lower field. When I hold my breath to dissolve the qi, a flood of white light bursted out of the lower field and spread to the surrounding. I could feel that my lower field was expanding and contracting and it was breathing rhythmically. At the same times new orbit lines appeared.

 

 

Student of student of Wang Liping manages to make astounding progress in gaining clairvoyant perception of energetic processes:

The light poured down into my lower field like a giant waterfall and I could see many drops of pearl-like spirit light. I thought the scene was absolutely breathtaking! This beautiful scene continued for almost an hour and then I followed the daoyin again to work on installing the spirit at the ancestral chamber practice.

 

Pure white spirit light flowed into my bladder, then it changed to grey and enters my liver, then it changed to green and enters my heart. Then it changed into tea-like color and entered my stomach, afterward it changed into sand yellow color and entered my lungs, afterward it changed into white and entered my kidneys, afterward it changed into grey and entered my bladder and finally it was still grey and entered my lower field.

 

The ancients said that the five elements have their respective five colors, this is absolutely true. I was absolutely awestruck by their wisdom.

 

 

Wang Liping knows the difference between clearing of Ren and Du & real SHO and LHO, and knows the prerequisites for the formation of the foetus:

 

(continuing from above)

Afterward I went to Shen laoshi and told him excitedly that I had embryonic breathing and I described the phenomenon to him. The teacher said calmly, “This is not embryonic breathing. This is True Breath” and he told me a story. Some guy thought he had reached embryonic breathing, just liked me, and he went to ask Master Wang.

 

The Master did not answered directly but during the class he said,”In order to have embryonic breathing, you must first have an embryo. To have an embryo you must first have Yinyang. To have Yinyang you must have Taiyi (ultimate unity), and to have Taiyi, you must first have internal and external medicine.”

 

 

Longmen recognizes difference between clearing of Ren and Du & real SHO and LHO:

 

http://taijidandao.blogspot.com/ : Student of Wang Liping says:

Finally I just want to add that even though the core practices that are taught today can get you to a really advanced level, it is of course NOT the complete set of inner alchemy methods. As far as I know the core practice can get you to, at least, the level of fusion of the Elixir (or creation of the Great Medicine). The Elixir is a pre-requisite for Channel Small Heavenly Orbit (or micro-cosmic orbit).

 

True SHO (according to Longmen Pai anyway) require two things,

(1) the opening of the real Ren and Du channels

(2) what move around the orbit is the Elixir.

 

As far as I know, I have not seen real SHO (or Longmen style SHO if you want) being taught outside China because I have not seen anyone that can tell me what's the actual Ren and Du channels are and no one mentions what is being move around inside the orbit (all you hear is move the qi, but what kind of qi? In Longmen pai there are many different levels/kinds of qi, one can symbolically represent them as 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 the qi you need for SHO is 3 (i think ;-) ) ).

 

 

Daigong with Master Wang Liping at least produces a good foundation in record time, which may take years with more passive approaches like YXP's Daogong and WLP's ЦЯШГ. I mean here I have given record of a relatively new student's clairvoyant capabilities and adeptness at perceiving and manipulating energetic processes in the organs and meridians.

 

We may not yet call this Neidan, if we were being conservative like WLP, but these records should at least make you think twice before dismissing some other school's methods as being ill conceived or even harmful.

 

http://taijidandao.blogspot.com/

Luckily this is where the genius of Master Wang come in. He has invented (or discovered/rediscovered?) the group daigong method. Which is essentially a way to harness the power of the combined qi field of a group of people who do the practice together. Note that this is not he same as normal group meditation because you need someone who knows how to daigong, who can control and tune the qi field appropriately to do the job (But normal group practice is still definitely better than doing it on one's own).

 

As an example, say there are 20 students and an instructor who is capable of daigong-ing. Then the tuned qi field will be like 20 people helping you to cultivate at the same time. If this is multiplied by the "boost factor" of using a specially designed magnetic-patterned sitting mat and special technique such as Star Formation practice.

 

Then the final result may be that a day of practice under such condition (4-5 hours in the seminar) may be equaled to you practicing on you own for a month! (I don't remember how to approximate the benefits, but I remember Shen laoshi saying that doing a group practice with him for 10 days can be, if you work hard in the seminar, equal to doing it on your own at home for a year.)

 

In 2009 June, a young lady (early 20s and in good health) who was a complete beginner participated Shen laoshi's seminar for the first time, on the 6th day, she opened her Channel SHO! I know we talked about SHO a lot in this blog and you might think this is an easy achievement, well you are wrong! REAL channel SHO is a high level of achievement in inner alchemy, given how difficult it is to just complete the foundation, most people can't open their Channel SHO in their lifetime but she did it in less than a week!

[MooNiNite]

The group meditation dynamic is very interesting

[opendao]

Daigong with Master Wang Liping at least produces a good foundation in record time

 

it would be good if it was so, but why Wang himself has no any visible signs of such foundation? Do you really understand what are the results of SHO?

 

, which may take years with more passive approaches like YXP's Daogong and WLP's ЦЯШГ. 

 

Daogong and JYSG don't lead to SHO, their goals are different. But even these techniques you don't know so what's a point to compare systems you have no idea about (Wang's and WLP/YXP)?

 

I mean here I have given record of a relatively new student's clairvoyant capabilities and adeptness at perceiving and manipulating energetic processes in the organs and meridians.

 

do you think it's a real result of real SHO? Read more then.

 

We may not yet call this Neidan, if we were being conservative like WLP, but these records should at least make you think twice before dismissing some other school's methods as being ill conceived or even harmful.

 

It's your fate... But just think about this: in Chinese there is a lot of writings, classic and modern, where some details of real SHO has been disclosed. And what we see in the Wang Liping's books and records of his student don't go beyond that. Strange? Not for me, knowing what fame Wang has in neidan circles in mainland China. So what they name as "elixir" and "SHO" is just something different. And that can be achieved very fast. But it doesn't lead you to Neidan's achievements (any of them). But lead to illness and harm in future.

 

Luckily this is where the genius of Master Wang come in. He has invented (or discovered/rediscovered?) the group daigong method. Which is essentially a way to harness the power of the combined qi field of a group of people who do the practice together. Note that this is not he same as normal group meditation because you need someone who knows how to daigong, who can control and tune the qi field appropriately to do the job (But normal group practice is still definitely better than doing it on one's own).

 

again nothing beyond usual medical qigong. But then he speaks about a lady who opened SHO in a week. Marketing BS. But people are lazy and love fast food stories.

 

So are you so naive to believe that by building a group qi field somebody can create a "real SHO" and become an immortal-saint? Where is your normal natural scepticism?

[MooNiNite]

is sho opening equivalent to spiritual immortal or earth immortal?

 

im guessing SHO channel is Sushumna? That would mean spiritual..

[SecretGrotto]

 

it would be good if it was so, but why Wang himself has no any visible signs of such foundation? Do you really understand what are the results of SHO?

 

Far be it from me to judge someone like Wang Liping, but I do notice that has no gray hair, he does have rosy cheeks and looks in excellent health, he eats very little as if he doesn't have to, his qigong abilities and phenomenal power to influence the energy bodies of individuals and groups have been well documented for decades, the reports of his students in gaining clairvoyant abilities and astounding perception and energetic progression under his guidance are numerous, there are lots of reports of his amazing healing abilities and abilities to influence the weather and physical matter remotely.

 

I have mentioned only a summary of the impressions I have received about Wang Liping from diverse sources, but I would love to read about the abilities and visible signs of good Neidan progress in WLP practitioners and teachers as well.

 

Could you give me a similar summary, but for a WLP teacher? I'm genuinely interested to learn and to find information that can aid me in making good decisions on where to find effective teachings.

 

Daogong and JYSG don't lead to SHO, their goals are different. But even these techniques you don't know so what's a point to compare systems you have no idea about (Wang's and WLP/YXP)?

 

Agreed, I only referred to the beginning practices of WLP/YXP to emphasize the comparative effectiveness of the Longmen Pai teaching of Wang Liping.

 

I do know YXP daogong and I hope to learn JYSG in Russia soon.

 

do you think it's a real result of real SHO? Read more then.

 

I could only make comparisons of quotes, since I don't have personal experience of SHO.

 

However, the point I'm trying to make is that clairvoyant perception and intuitive growth that has been reported by beginners training with Wang Liping is surely a useful skill to aid in the aspects that eventually deal with Neidan.

 

YXP and WLP uses qigong in the beginner exercises, as well as numerous other Eastern modalities, in order to aid in the eventual study of Neidan.

Why dismiss such practices and only focus on arguments of Neidan when I want to make a constructive conversation about the effectivity of these foundational practices amongst different teachers?

 

It's your fate... But just think about this: in Chinese there is a lot of writings, classic and modern, where some details of real SHO has been disclosed. And what we see in the Wang Liping's books and records of his student don't go beyond that. Strange? Not for me, knowing what fame Wang has in neidan circles in mainland China. So what they name as "elixir" and "SHO" is just something different. And that can be achieved very fast. But it doesn't lead you to Neidan's achievements (any of them). But lead to illness and harm in future.

 

I can only quote on WLP's Master of Single Yang what is available currently, and I can only compare to those writings, as I have shown in this case the perfect correspondence between Master of Single Yang's description of real SHO and the Wang Liping's student's experience.

 

Note also that LMP distinguishes between ~10 different types of qi, and when one extrapolates from the capabilities of a student of a student of Wang Liping to Wang Liping himself to estimate his ability to perceive energetic processes in the body, it seems highly unlikely to me that what Wang Liping experiences as Elixir

is different to what WLP experiences as Elixir.

 

Please clarify for me how it would make sense that the descriptions of LMP and WLP real SHO matches up perfectly, but someone with the perceptive abilities and pedigree of Wang Liping, trained in a tradition with so much overlap with WLP, would be mistaken so much?

 

Moreover, if Elixir in this instance corresponds with only one of 10 different types of qi in LMP, and WLP and LMP does in fact have different names for Elixir, then the correspondence will simply be found in the remainder of the types of qi.

 

How can LMP have such clear perception of so many types of qi and energetic processes and be so absolutely fundamentally mistaken? Do not disregard the validity of this question out of blind bias. Yes, there are a lot of false teachings, but WLP does not hold exclusively true teachings.

 

So are you so naive to believe that by building a group qi field somebody can create a "real SHO" and become an immortal-saint? Where is your normal natural scepticism?

 

Master-disciple transmission is critically important, even in WLP, as is group practice, since the result is greater than the sum of its parts. I did not say you can do group practice and become an immortal-saint, but indications are that you can accelerate your progress in fundamental skills and attainments that are absolute key to develop further, eventually, in Neidan.

[opendao]

 

I can only quote on WLP's Master of Single Yang what is available currently, and I can only compare to those writings, as I have shown in this case the perfect correspondence between Master of Single Yang's description of real SHO and the Wang Liping's student's experience.

 

my point was that Wang's teaching doesn't bring any new knowledge that can really explain some hard parts of the classic approach. While WLP books have a lot that haven't been disclosed before. So in one case we see just repeating of the already published words, that's why it confuses people and they see no difference between WLP and Wang Liping. Simply speaking, if somebody repeats that SHO is not about qi, but about elixir, it doesn't mean he experienced that, or his experience has any relation to Neidan. But basically all your comparison is built on this idea.

 

 

Note also that LMP distinguishes between ~10 different types of qi, and when one extrapolates from the capabilities of a student of a student of Wang Liping to Wang Liping himself to estimate his ability to perceive energetic processes in the body, it seems highly unlikely to me that what Wang Liping experiences as Elixir

is different to what WLP experiences as Elixir.

 

no, from this extrapolation we cannot say that they are the same (or different). It's not enough information, and not enough knowledge about the tradition (texts, first of all).

 

 

Please clarify for me how it would make sense that the descriptions of LMP and WLP real SHO matches up perfectly, but someone with the perceptive abilities and pedigree of Wang Liping, trained in a tradition with so much overlap with WLP, would be mistaken so much?

 

Please don't tell WLP people that their tradition has any overlap with Wang Liping :-) 

 

It's very easy to mistake things, because, for example, for SHO only maybe 1/20th of all real signs were disclosed. Everything else is only an oral teaching or very subtle hints in books. So you match this 1/20th with Wang student's single sentence and you see some resemblance. Obviously, it's not enough to do conclusions you do just based on that, right?

 

 

Moreover, if Elixir in this instance corresponds with only one of 10 different types of qi in LMP, and WLP and LMP does in fact have different names for Elixir, then the correspondence will simply be found in the remainder of the types of qi.

 

Elixir is not qi, so pls bring this classification of 10 types, we can try to find there an elixir, but I already have some doubts :-)

 

 

 

How can LMP have such clear perception of so many types of qi and energetic processes and be so absolutely fundamentally mistaken? Do not disregard the validity of this question out of blind bias. Yes, there are a lot of false teachings, but WLP does not hold exclusively true teachings.

 

It doesn't hold, and there are other schools. But because we're not limited just by WLP, we can compare, and see that the principles are similar. And in numerous qigong schools the principles are also the same qigong principles. That's why Wang Liping is a qigong teacher. And the abilities you described, they are also well-known qigong abilities. 

 

The fundamental mistake everybody does is to map Qigong experience to Neidan books. It's a way to nowhere, it confuses people a lot, and that's what is really criticized.

 

[opendao]

 

 

this is the first part of the answers to SecretGrotto, the forum engine doesn't like big number of quotes 

 

 

I have mentioned only a summary of the impressions I have received about Wang Liping from diverse sources, but I would love to read about the abilities and visible signs of good Neidan progress in WLP practitioners and teachers as well.

 

 

for this you need to meet neidan masters, then the signs will be obvious for you... Wang Liping looks usual for his age, everything else like his extraordinary abilities to affect the weather, is not very related to neidan 

 

 

 

 I'm genuinely interested to learn and to find information that can aid me in making good decisions on where to find effective teachings.

 

 

focus on the understanding of basic Taoist concepts, but again, to compare something here you need to be well versed in the specific literature at least... So just listen to your heart. I'm serious here.

 

 

 

Agreed, I only referred to the beginning practices of WLP/YXP to emphasize the comparative effectiveness of the Longmen Pai teaching of Wang Liping.

 

 

that's what I don't get: you compare stones and bananas, then you say that bananas are more effective.

 

 

 

However, the point I'm trying to make is that clairvoyant perception and intuitive growth that has been reported by beginners training with Wang Liping is surely a useful skill to aid in the aspects that eventually deal with Neidan.

 

 

you think it's useful, but Neidan teachers can have an absolutely opposite opinion: for example, in our schools such abilities can slow down a student's progress.

 

for SHO I advised you to find quotes about real results of SHO, its place in the transformation etc. All this psychic abilities you listed are not very important in the context of SHO. 

 

 

 

 

YXP and WLP uses qigong in the beginner exercises, as well as numerous other Eastern modalities, in order to aid in the eventual study of Neidan.

 

 

WLP doesn't. JYSG is not qigong. Generally speaking, Daogong is also not Qigong, but the traditional Yangshenggong / Neigong. And Daogong is not a part of YXP curriculum to be precise.

 

 

 

Why dismiss such practices and only focus on arguments of Neidan when I want to make a constructive conversation about the effectivity of these foundational practices amongst different teachers?

 

 

simple: because real SHO is a part of Neidan ONLY, and has no relation to Qigong.

 

[MooNiNite]

best of luck to you guys.

[opendao]

is sho opening equivalent to spiritual immortal or earth immortal?

 

good question 

[MooNiNite]

good question 

 

Have you visited China? What area did you find fascinating?

[MooNiNite]

Hmm are you implying that Wang Liping hasn't activated the fountain of youth? I strongly believe he has. 

[voidisyinyang]

Maybe he hasn't read wang lipings bio book.

[damdao]

 

WLP doesn't. JYSG is not qigong. Generally speaking, Daogong is also not Qigong, but the traditional Yangshenggong / Neigong. And Daogong is not a part of YXP curriculum to be precise.

 

Can you provide a general definition of these three: qigong, yangshenggong and neigong?

Neigong is defined very differently in different writers and yangshenggong seems similar to qigong, even some teachers teach sets with the name yangshenggong as qigong set.

I am really confused about that.

[opendao]

Can you provide a general definition of these three: qigong, yangshenggong and neigong?

Neigong is defined very differently in different writers and yangshenggong seems similar to qigong, even some teachers teach sets with the name yangshenggong as qigong set.

I am really confused about that.

 

Yangsheng ("nourishing life") are health related methods, invented by Daoists (maybe there are some Buddhist ones, but I still not sure about roots of Yijingjing, for example), but passed down to all people to improve health.

 

Neigong is also based on Daoist legacy, but to get skills needed in Martial Arts. Sometimes it's referred as "hard qigong" now.

 

Qigong as a term was used in 20th century as an umbrella for any energy work, but later it became a synonym of "medical qigong", invented (or forged) in medical institutes in China.

 

So now it's very confusing: there are traditional sets and new "inventions", but both are "qigong". For example, Baduanjing set can be a traditional one from some family school or Daoist temple, or it can be from a medical institute or some "qigong healer". So I think the less confusing term could be "traditional qigong".

[Jox]

Opendao ... your words seems knowledgable and wise and so on ... but what, if you posted once some of techniques/exercises you do ... because so much talking do not cook the rice ... just saying ... 

[opendao]

Opendao ... your words seems knowledgable and wise and so on ... but what, if you posted once some of techniques/exercises you do ... because so much talking do not cook the rice ... just saying ... 

 

what's about mental ill people we see here so often? they will take these exercises and will add them to their insane "systems". So no, don't even ask.

 

Who wants to learn - they have possibilities, who wants to hesitate eternally  - they have a nice excuse. Everybody is happy.

[Ormus]

Dear all,

 

Wu Liu Pai looks as realy authentic Jindan tradition.I am not well versed with some Buddhism terms but from what I read on Dao De Centar website about WLP Nei Dan I think it is authentic and I compare it with Wai Dan teachings and they are the same in a way that it can be compared in stages and results.Alchemy is one and one who knows Nei Dan can understand also Wai Dan and vice versa.

 

I hope that someone can describe what are diferences in Nei Dan teachings among Longmen Pai,Wu Liu Pai and Qianfeng Xtiantian Pai?

 

All the best,

 

Ormus

[MooNiNite]

 

 

 

have you had any luck contacting wang lipings organization to try and get into a seminar?

[tao stillness]

I would like to hear from people who have done these exercises for the 5 elements that are taught online from the Dao De group in Russia. Interesting how everyone claims that the qigong or neidan that they do is the most authentic or most beneficial. Reminds me of the different religions claiming they are the only real lineage, such as the Catholic Church. So much ego involved in this. 

[opendao]

I would like to hear from people who have done these exercises for the 5 elements that are taught online from the Dao De group in Russia. Interesting how everyone claims that the qigong or neidan that they do is the most authentic or most beneficial. Reminds me of the different religions claiming they are the only real lineage, such as the Catholic Church. So much ego involved in this. 

 

I doubt with such altruistic attitude you will hear anything.