Wuliupai school

[LaoZiDao]

I would like to hear from people who have done these exercises for the 5 elements that are taught online from the Dao De group in Russia. Interesting how everyone claims that the qigong or neidan that they do is the most authentic or most beneficial. Reminds me of the different religions claiming they are the only real lineage, such as the Catholic Church. So much ego involved in this. 

 

Too much wondering, not enough doing - you could find out for yourself easily. 

[Aetherous]

I would like to hear from people who have done these exercises for the 5 elements that are taught online from the Dao De group in Russia. Interesting how everyone claims that the qigong or neidan that they do is the most authentic or most beneficial. Reminds me of the different religions claiming they are the only real lineage, such as the Catholic Church. So much ego involved in this. 

 

I did probably half of daogong, which was required before the yuxianpai 5 element exercises...then was exposed to shengong and also part of the liver one.

 

In my very limited opinion, much of it was similar to what's in most qigong practices...even the way that the yuan qi is worked with is similar to other forms of qigong, despite what may be claimed. Although some of it was unique, and the order it's done in might be necessary for their effects. I did notice with shengong that it seemed to have a pretty powerful and deep effect on the manifestations of the Water element in TCM, although I barely practiced it for a few days prior to experiencing a strange illness (which most likely originated from other things happening at the time), and so have quit since then.

 

My view on the school is that it's best for people who enjoy the training. For everyone else, there is a plethora of other schools which may be more fitting to the individual, and you shouldn't be made to feel like you're missing out on anything. I think it's only because the students and instructors of that school are so impressed with their results, that they want to help others find a good way. But there are other good schools.

[LaoZiDao]

much of it was similar to what's in most qigong practices...even the way that the yuan qi is worked with is similar to other forms of qigong.

 

Yuanqi is not used in qigong (气功) note the character used - 气 or 氣 - which is post-heaven Qi, there is another character used for Yuanqi.

 

About Yuxianpai preparatory methods, to be honest I think it is not directly working with Yuanqi.

 

Where did you hear about that?

[opendao]

I did probably half of daogong, which was required before the yuxianpai 5 element exercises...then was exposed to shengong and also part of the liver one.

 

In my very limited opinion, much of it was similar to what's in most qigong practices...even the way that the yuan qi is worked with is similar to other forms of qigong, despite what may be claimed. Although some of it was unique, and the order it's done in might be necessary for their effects. I did notice with shengong that it seemed to have a pretty powerful and deep effect on the manifestations of the Water element in TCM, although I barely practiced it for a few days prior to experiencing a strange illness (which most likely originated from other things happening at the time), and so have quit since then.

 

My view on the school is that it's best for people who enjoy the training. For everyone else, there is a plethora of other schools which may be more fitting to the individual, and you shouldn't be made to feel like you're missing out on anything. I think it's only because the students and instructors of that school are so impressed with their results, that they want to help others find a good way. But there are other good schools.

 

Obviously, people who have practised more, get different effects and understanding. Though the described techniques have no direct relation to Wu-Liu Pai school, it is still a preparatory level for Yu Xian Pai, the main difference is in the total effect after learning all methods: other Qigong schools don't really go in this direction so far, because their further methods are different (sitting meditations, yinshen as the topmost goal) and they don't need so deep effect. Also the exercises were made by a person who knew channels and organs from the alchemy point of view, so even when there is some visual similarity with other Qigong systems, the order, details, inner work is very different. At last, it's a traditional system, which is safe to practice. Nowadays it's rare.

 

So far Yu Xian Pai's methods for 5 elements are the most powerful we know (and we know a lot) to prepare the channels and organs for replenishing Yuan Jing. In Wu-Liu Pai preparation is different, and the same effect is received using yuan qi.

 

But we are very happy when people find schools that fit their destiny better.

And yes, we are very impressed by results received by students who stay with us for a longer time.

[opendao]

 

Yuanqi is not used in qigong (气功) note the character used - 气 or 氣 - which is post-heaven Qi, there is another character used for Yuanqi.

 

About Yuxianpai preparatory methods, to be honest I think it is not directly working with Yuanqi.

 

no, directly it's impossible to a certain high level. So when TCM people speak about yuan qi, they mean something else (zhenqi etc).

[Aetherous]

no, directly it's impossible to a certain high level. So when TCM people speak about yuan qi, they mean something else (zhenqi etc).

 

In TCM, zhen qi is ying and wei...that's not confused with yuan qi.

[opendao]

even the way that the yuan qi is worked with is similar to other forms of qigong, despite what may be claimed.

 

In TCM, zhen qi is ying and wei...that's not confused with yuan qi.

 

sometimes it's not confused, sometimes yes... What did you work with in our exercises and "other forms of qigong"? How do you find the similarity?

[Taoist Texts]

  I did notice with shengong that it seemed to have a pretty powerful and deep effect on the manifestations of the Water element in TCM, although I barely practiced it for a few days prior to experiencing a strange illness (which most likely originated from other things happening at the time), and so have quit since then.

 

My view on the school is that it's best for people who enjoy the training. For everyone else, there is a plethora of other schools which may be more fitting to the individual, and you shouldn't be made to feel like you're missing out on anything. I think it's only because the students and instructors of that school are so impressed with their results, that they want to help others find a good way. But there are other good schools.

Neidan pracices make people sick. Internet seminar peddlers are scammers. Nothing surprising about that. What does not cease to amaze me is how people try to rationalize away having been had, even after becoming literally sick.

[Aetherous]

Neidan pracices make people sick. Internet seminar peddlers are scammers. Nothing surprising about that. What does not cease to amaze me is how people try to rationalize away having been had, even after becoming literally sick.

 

Well, there were multiple other factors that definitely could've played into this illness. I do not discount that these practices might have done it, although don't want to blame it without actually knowing. Currently healing the problem through diet, exercise, and Chinese medicine. Once I'm back to 100% health, which might take half a year, I'll be able to test some of the other things and see what the true cause was.

[dawei]

Neidan pracices make people sick. Internet seminar peddlers are scammers. Nothing surprising about that. What does not cease to amaze me is how people try to rationalize away having been had, even after becoming literally sick.

 

I don't think some generalizations like this really help the discussion.   It is likely probably that some practices can make people sick; that some internet seminars are scammers.  

 

I think until one actually tries it themselves, they cannot know how to fully judge it... or at least several have reported issues, etc.

[Taoist Texts]

diet, exercise, and Chinese medicine. Once I'm back to 100% health, which might take half a year, I'll be able to test some of the other things and see what the true cause was.

Half a year! This sounds like something very serious, wish u to get well soon. In my experience the only cure that is extremely safe and produces  wondrous results is fasting , give it a try if you will.

[Yae]

Neidan pracices make people sick. Internet seminar peddlers are scammers. Nothing surprising about that. What does not cease to amaze me is how people try to rationalize away having been had, even after becoming literally sick.

I'm still practicing and haven't been sick since I started. I've had many positive feelings from practicing though, some of them quite incredible.

 

I'm skeptical, of course I am. The claims are insane, immortality. But the people from this school, their rational personalities, the teacher's astounding intuitive ability to appeal to the needs of each student, the steadiness and calm focus possessed by exactly all of them (I went to a seminar in St. Petersburg), the spontaneous movement practice, and again the other feelings; I can't help but stay with it to see where it all leads.

 

Many tidbits of information about different topics (food, relationships, stress, history) have come up, it just all sounds so right.

 

The most validating or invalidating thing I can think of is of course to wait until a visit to or from an immortal is scheduled again, and to go see them. I went to see the Hugging Saint once, got a hug, sat through the show. It sucked. I didn't feel a thing. I think she ony affects people who are crazy lol. -who are really sensitive to suggestion and.. don't question what they're told?

If the immortal is anything like that I'll become instantly disinterested. Unless they look 29 and show me a birth certificate from 100 years ago, though the certificate could be fake, so then I'm not sure what I would do.

 

Yeah but you jump to conclusions way too fast. Confirmation bias out the a**.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Bluemind

[Taoist Texts]

I'm still practicing and haven't been sick since I started. I've had many positive feelings from practicing though, some of them quite incredible.

 

I'm skeptical, of course I am. The claims are insane, immortality. But the people from this school, their rational personalities, the teacher's astounding intuitive ability to appeal to the needs of each student, the steadiness and calm focus possessed by exactly all of them (I went to a seminar in St. Petersburg), the spontaneous movement practice, and again the other feelings; I can't help but stay with it to see where it all leads.

 

 

Thats the key word here.

[damdao]

Neidan pracices make people sick. Internet seminar peddlers are scammers. Nothing surprising about that. What does not cease to amaze me is how people try to rationalize away having been had, even after becoming literally sick.

I think it is general enough as to include all people who is engaged in the practice of neidan irrespective of their lineage. We know, of course, that he is attacking personally Daode Centre, reaching even the level of "constant" (常) trolling, because many times his attacks has nothing to do with the discussion; but he is including all lineages and making irresponsible statements like the counselling of fasting without even know what kind of disease was spoken of (btw, I think that Aetherous knows his MTC well and doesn't need neither such counsels nor a false sympathy that only supports his attacks against a school).

Coming back to the new cycle inaugurated by tao stillness what can be said, (leaving aside the discussion about authenticity) is that the level of attention and caring given to the student is far from what I had experienced before in most schools here. Even being online classes this is not at all an obstacle for the accurate corrections made by the two teachers. So, from the point of view of the commitment and the seriousness of the teachers' teaching, we can say that it is a real school. I hope that this can clarify some of tao stillness' doubts.

Of course, we always have others experiences (subtle ones) but this is better to experience for one self.

About the methods, well, I am far from being able to analise them but they are good and give you palpable results, and the order (daogong, neidan) is good and has a purpose, many schools today has no order or rationale about the practice.

[Taoist Texts]

I think it is general enough as to include all people who is engaged in the practice of neidan irrespective of their lineage.

Hei look my favorite neidanisto! How are you amigo? Yes you are correct. I posit that neidan will make anybody sick in body and mind, in due course.

 

We know, of course, that he is attacking personally Daode Centre, reaching even the level of "constant" (常) trolling, because many times his attacks has nothing to do with the discussion;

Tsk, tsk, tsk. A little bit angry, a little bit paranoid. Is neidan making you so?

 

 

but he is including all lineages and making irresponsible statements like the counselling of fasting without even know what kind of disease was spoken of (btw, I think that Aetherous knows his MTC well and doesn't need neither such counsels nor a false sympathy that only supports his attacks against a school).

MTC? False?

Coming back to the new cycle inaugurated by tao stillness what can be said, (leaving aside the discussion about authenticity) is that the level of attention and caring given to the student is far from what I had experienced before in most schools here. Even being online classes this is not at all an obstacle for the accurate corrections made by the two teachers. So, from the point of view of the commitment and the seriousness of the teachers' teaching, we can say that it is a real school. I hope that this can clarify some of tao stillness' doubts.

Of course, we always have others experiences (subtle ones) but this is better to experience for one self.

Which experiences exactly? Please tell us.

 

 

About the methods, well, I am far from being able to analise them but they are good and give you palpable results,  

Like what results exactly? Please feel free to share.

[LaoZiDao]

I'm also a student and have been practising Daogong and YXP for almost 1 year, and WLP Juiyangshengong for much less, that is 2 classes per week for over 6 months, and 1 class per week for just under 6 months, multiple intensive trainings, and a week long intensive training in Russia where I met my Teacher, instructor, other Teachers, and long time local students.

I got the sense of the School, Teachers and so on, and it is completely what I expected. There is serious care and attention to students progress, problems, incredible ability to determine students deviations, mistakes in practice and ability to correct it and bring back the harmony - which always results in improvements, increased understanding etc.

There is defiantly no sickness developed from the methods, only positive changes in the daily life (opportunity, increased fortune, luck, increased energy in the daily tasks - work - relationships and so on) and in the body (long term health issues correcting, sensitivity of channels and direct sense of activation of channels from methods and it doing positive work in correcting the balance, working with the post-heaven Qi with sense behind it - not just random work with Qi causing disharmony's and sending fire to the head, all too common with pseudo-schools).

Of course, for great changes you get what you put in: little efforts, little result.

It's a long-term work and requires daily hard work and consistent practice, time, efforts, travel, money etc.

but in saying that, even small amount of consistent practice (depending on peoples goals, condition etc) there is still gradual positive changes, and gradual stability - as there should be with Traditional methods.

Taoist Texts, you have only empty words with no basis, there is nothing more to say to you.

[Taoist Texts]

I'm also a student and have been practising Daogong and YXP for almost 1 year, and WLP Juiyangshengong for much less, that is 2 classes per week for over 6 months, and 1 class per week for just under 6 months, 

So, 1 year, no neidan, just qigong. Good, no probs.

 

There is defiantly no sickness developed from the methods, only positive changes in the daily life (opportunity, increased fortune, luck, increased energy in the daily tasks - work - relationships and so on) and in the body (long term health issues correcting, sensitivity of channels and direct sense of activation of channels from methods and it doing positive work in correcting the balance, working with the post-heaven Qi with sense behind it

Excellent. But still qigong, not neidan. No neidan created in 1 year. Well, may be next year.

Taoist Texts, you have only empty words with no basis, there is nothing more to say to you.

Thanks for sharing;)

[LaoZiDao]

So, 1 year, no neidan, just qigong. Good, no probs.

Excellent. But still qigong, not neidan. No neidan created in 1 year. Well, may be next year.

Thanks for sharing;)

 

 

Heh, your words are so empty and knowledge so thin that any true seeker of Dao will see though it.

 

I'll say anyway, Nei Dan Shu is methods to cultivate Dao, not be handed Dao for little efforts. expectations to reach achievement of Xian in short time is not realistic for most - someone could have a very special fate - but rare. There are many obstacles to first overcome and work to do (special methods to correct body's balance, removing the modern stress, tensions, illnesses, unsettled thoughts, correcting polluted ideas and thoughts -cleaning the Heart and so on) to prepare the body for further work on the way (the process) to cultivate Da Dao. Each person has their own unique struggles to overcome, each persons fate being different - and it takes time to correct and find the balance, and stabilise the good result, the preparation work is working on this and it is all part of the way to being able to perform further methods in the Alchemy.

[Yae]

What if Taoist Texts is just a devil's advocate trying to egg people on so they'll write more interesting useful information? Lol. He seems very useful for that.

[Yae]

Thats the key word here.

It's okay. The tools that I use to pursue truth have led me here. If I fail it will be a necessary lesson. If I don't, sucks for the naysayers :D :D

[Taoist Texts]

 

 

Heh, your words are so empty and knowledge so thin that any true seeker of Dao will see though it.

There must be quite a few of you guys out there. 

I'll say anyway,

Please do! See, we are having a conversation which is both courteous and exciting already;)

Nei Dan Shu is methods to cultivate Dao, not be handed Dao for little efforts. expectations to reach achievement of Xian in short time is not realistic for most - someone could have a very special fate - but rare. There are many obstacles to first overcome and work to do (special methods to correct body's balance, removing the modern stress, tensions, illnesses, unsettled thoughts, correcting polluted ideas and thoughts -cleaning the Heart and so on) to prepare the body for further work on the way (the process) to cultivate Da Dao.

This is strange. You are saying that the method of alchemy can be used for the huge task of achieving immortality, but can not be used to overcome small tasks that you list above. Does that make sense?

 

Each person has their own unique struggles to overcome, each persons fate being different - and it takes time to correct and find the balance, and stabilise the good result, the preparation work is working on this and it is all part of the way to being able to perform further methods in the Alchemy.

What you say does make sense only if the teacher does not know alchemy himself but rather strings the student on with preparatory qigong, hoping that the dunce will pay long enough, then quit and be replaced by a new one. Its called the 'optimal rate of customer churn'.

[LaoZiDao]

Please do! See, we are having a conversation which is both courteous and exciting already;)

 

What I wrote was not for you, but for others. I have interest or reasons to converse with you.

[Antares]

I would like to hear from people who have done these exercises for the 5 elements that are taught online from the Dao De group in Russia. Interesting how everyone claims that the qigong or neidan that they do is the most authentic or most beneficial. Reminds me of the different religions claiming they are the only real lineage, such as the Catholic Church. So much ego involved in this. 

 

Neidan is not religion at all. When was it said that it is the most beneficial? We said that neidan (neigong) is the only real internal work in Daoism. There are a few other spiritual internal systems in Asia. But far not all of them are the same as Neidan. 

This difference was described in Daoist scriptures and instructors of the Dao De center rely on strict Daoist approach in training process. Who does not like it is free to go another way. It is strange to hear something about ego here

[Antares]

I did probably half of daogong, which was required before the yuxianpai 5 element exercises...then was exposed to shengong and also part of the liver one.

 

In my very limited opinion, much of it was similar to what's in most qigong practices...even the way that the yuan qi is worked with is similar to other forms of qigong, despite what may be claimed. Although some of it was unique, and the order it's done in might be necessary for their effects. I did notice with shengong that it seemed to have a pretty powerful and deep effect on the manifestations of the Water element in TCM, although I barely practiced it for a few days prior to experiencing a strange illness (which most likely originated from other things happening at the time), and so have quit since then.

 

My view on the school is that it's best for people who enjoy the training. For everyone else, there is a plethora of other schools which may be more fitting to the individual, and you shouldn't be made to feel like you're missing out on anything. I think it's only because the students and instructors of that school are so impressed with their results, that they want to help others find a good way. But there are other good schools.

 

Well, there is a secret which makes all difference between qigong and neidan. Even Daogong could be either qigong or neidan depending on the approach how one does it. The matter is not in exercise for itself but in a few other factors. Also there is some difference whether you do it on your own or in the group with teacher. But anyway what you talk here is not about WuLiupai. WLP is something special and have different approach even comparing with YXP.

 

For example, I could say that in WLP's Jiuyangshengong there are almost NO EXERCISES (in simplified version) at all but it works different way from qigong? Why is so? human mind can not understand it because it got used to do something - plenty of movements, asanas, breath, visualizations and so on... but when it is said not to do anything people can not understand it. 

 

Taoist Texts asks plenty of questions about this... 

Edited March 8, 2016 by Antares

[Antares]

I doubt with such altruistic attitude you will hear anything.

 

Oh, some people always love to look for something new. Searching for the sake of searching. They call it spiritual search. Every month they get new DVD, new training, new teacher, new wandering