Shouldn't Acupuncture be able to lead to Enlightenment by opening things up?

[C T]

Its simple as realizing that there is no other way than just do it. If you believe in this kind of stuff you don't need more merit from cultivating good deeds or reciting mantras etc.

Opening channel, the energy there will force you to purify karma and virtues will come by themselves naturally.

 

"true emptiness"- emptiness seems to be the endgoal, but emptiness is relative too, it depends on the self.

And even if people realize nondual, it does not end duality. From this strating opening channels is logical continuance after getting a taste what emptiness is.

Do what exactly? Are you recommending a do-it-yourself kind of approach to opening up the nadis and bindus? If thats the case, its quite an irresponsible recommendation. If not, then i must have misunderstood your position.

 

If emptiness is relative as you say, then it can neither be true nor false. Nor can be a goal, like as if its a state to acquire. For one, it points to the inter-dependent nature of phenomena, and this definitely is not exclusively dependent on the 'self' for the 'self' is also not distinct from the process.

 

Finally, can you please elaborate what 'getting a taste of emptiness' means?

[Spotless]

Its simple as realizing that there is no other way than just do it. If you believe in this kind of stuff you don't need more merit from cultivating good deeds or reciting mantras etc.

Opening channel, the energy there will force you to purify karma and virtues will come by themselves naturally.

 

"true emptiness"- emptiness seems to be the endgoal, but emptiness is relative too, it depends on the self.

And even if people realize nondual, it does not end duality. From this strating opening channels is logical continuance after getting a taste what emptiness is.

 

You need to really re-think this:

"Opening channel, the energy there will force you to purify karma and virtues will come by themselves naturally."

The cart is so far before the horse that they do not appear to be related to each other.

 

These forums are full of people with real physical problems due to opening up channels through techniques that they should not have been using because they were premature practices given their state. What is the difference if it is done with mechanical manipulation? Perhaps it would have a milder infliction but you would be all over the place trying to fix and do containment work.

 

 

[allinone]

Do what exactly? Are you recommending a do-it-yourself kind of approach to opening up the nadis and bindus? If thats the case, its quite an irresponsible recommendation. If not, then i must have misunderstood your position.

 

If emptiness is relative as you say, then it can neither be true nor false. Nor can be a goal, like as if its a state to acquire. For one, it points to the inter-dependent nature of phenomena, and this definitely is not exclusively dependent on the 'self' for the 'self' is also not distinct from the process.

 

Finally, can you please elaborate what 'getting a taste of emptiness' means?

 

Everything is doityourself, i use book knowledge as a guide. Does it really matter if the teaching is presented by live teacher or a book?

 

central channel, my own nature, i am. At first i can only taste it, reflecting on the source of i am and then dissolve it when it reaches to the head -tasting emptiness then making it complete and then abandon it, i will end up in a new ground with new understanding to emptiness-what is the nature of all things.

 

tasting emptiness is i haven't yet gotten it, i haven't reached the full knowledge of interdependence or casuality unless i find its source(cause) and let it go, then i have first hand knowledge.

[allinone]

You need to really re-think this: "Opening channel, the energy there will force you to purify karma and virtues will come by themselves naturally." The cart is so far before the horse that they do not appear to be related to each other. These forums are full of people with real physical problems due to opening up channels through techniques that they should not have been using because they were premature practices given their state. What is the difference if it is done with mechanical manipulation? Perhaps it would have a milder infliction but you would be all over the place trying to fix and do containment work.

 

in order to open it your concentration skill, wisdom and such must be pretty high. You need to be beyond arhat, because ask arahant about cultivating body..

there is special thing lies in "I am" what opens it, when you open it then its intense and if concentration is weak that will mean hallucinations.

 

I would have question for you?

Why not open it if you need to open it anyway to reach buddhahood..

If it makes you more comfortable then you can forget central channel, tandiens etc just call it samatha or jhana or concentration.

 

when you open central channel it isn't kundalini, kundalini rises a lot later and again if blocks not eradicated then it does not arise to the top.

----------

"What is the difference if it is done with mechanical manipulation? "

is it even possible?

 

i don't see the problem, and i don't know about forum people what imbalance they have caused to themselves but its not by opening central channel.

To open it skandhas must be overcome.

Edited July 26, 2014 by allinone

[GrandmasterP]

Everything is doityourself, i use book knowledge as a guide. Does it really matter if the teaching is presented by live teacher or a book?

 

central channel, my own nature, i am. At first i can only taste it, reflecting on the source of i am and then dissolve it when it reaches to the head -tasting emptiness then making it complete and then abandon it, i will end up in a new ground with new understanding to emptiness-what is the nature of all things.

 

tasting emptiness is i haven't yet gotten it, i haven't reached the full knowledge of interdependence or casuality unless i find its source(cause) and let it go, then i have first hand knowledge.

 

Books and DVDs will only take you so far.

The advantage of having a teacher and/or mentor is that s/he can see what you are doing and immediately correct any mistakes.

Nothing apart from a skilled human being can actually sit and watch what one is doing whilst one is doing it to offer help and guidance right there at the point when it is needed.

None of us learnt to drive via a book or DVD, thank goodness.

The roads would be worse than they are now had that been the case.

[al.]

Considering the history of acupuncture and its ties with traditional chinese medicine including chi, meridians, chakras, dan tians, taoism, martial arts, etc...

 

......so considering all the ties, couldn't you technically open up all the dan tians, central channel, and hasten your Enlightenment through the use of hitting certain acupuncture points?

 

I ask cause this has been popping up via intuition as a methodology that should technically work, plus I'm going in for a session for some lower back pain and was just reconsidering these ties all over again.

 

What say you Bums?

 

There are people throughout history who have used acupuncture as an adjunct to enlightenment/immortality. OF course, the concept of enlightenment or immortality needs to be clear. Acupuncture, like all traditional Chinese culture, is deeply rooted in Daoism, Yi Jing, Dao De Jing, but also went on to be influenced by Buddhism went it was introduced. (And Confucianism to make up the trinity) Different physicians who have different belief systems and practices and this would inform how they treat people.

In any case, if you are trying to 'hasten your enlightenment', it seems you are aiming towards what the Buddha realised- Nibanna... quite different in some regards from Daoism. So, perhaps start working with a Buddhist acupuncturist you respect.

 

There are quite amazing histories of Buddhist acupuncture used in this way coming from the temples of Mao Shan. Also if you are working with alchemy and Daoism a great tradition traces back from Ge Hong, using gold and silver needles, quite beautiful really.

 

Of course, finding people who can help in this way a far and few between. There are many styles of acupuncture, some with more focus on Spirit than others. You might find useful what is called Five Element Constitutional Acupuncture. It might well bring your life into a better position towards goal.

 

A

[C T]

Whats next? Acupuncture to increase kung fu skills? That'll be the day.

[al.]

Whats next? Acupuncture to increase kung fu skills? That'll be the day.

Of course!

 

Some of the top martial artists were good acupuncturists, most certainly know the points and theory..

[C T]

Of course!

 

Some of the top martial artists were good acupuncturists, most certainly know the points and theory..

[BaguaKicksAss]

Everything is doityourself, i use book knowledge as a guide. Does it really matter if the teaching is presented by live teacher or a book?

 

central channel, my own nature, i am. At first i can only taste it, reflecting on the source of i am and then dissolve it when it reaches to the head -tasting emptiness then making it complete and then abandon it, i will end up in a new ground with new understanding to emptiness-what is the nature of all things.

 

tasting emptiness is i haven't yet gotten it, i haven't reached the full knowledge of interdependence or casuality unless i find its source(cause) and let it go, then i have first hand knowledge.

 

As long as you don't go using it on others that might be OK (since you are only harming yourself in that case). It is NOT ethical to go trying it on others when you know nothing about it. Book taught acupuncture counts as knowing nearly nothing about it.

 

I'm sure glad you aren't taking up brain surgery as a hobby .

Edited July 27, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[ॐDominicusॐ]

The body is not a thing we wear that shackles us to the mundane and from which we must unlock our self and gain freedom. It is also not a group of dams all waiting to be opened up and upon such a time we (the spirit/soul) will be able to enjoy an awakened state together. The body is not the "problem" and no problem exists - literally. Not one Enlightened teacher has ever not stated that enlightenment is waiting in every moment. Every single student of every single enlightened teacher that ever gained enlightenment has discovered that the little tiny statement that the master put out here and there saying it was all just an illusion and only took the slightest shift to awakened did not hear their master and they will jump up and down with surprise that the master actually meant what he/she stated over and over again when they become enlightened - they will also tell their students that it was there all along absolutely brilliant and only a shift and the light is everywhere. This is a spiritual matter - we are not the body - this animated dust that is our vehicle here in paradise.

biggest question: Are saying all this from direct experience of being enlightened yourself?........or is it all theoretical??

 

Majority of Paths cultivate the body as well. Enlightenment happens through, via, as part of a body...that body then communicates back to the rest the info about enlightenment and cultivation, etc. The view that "there is no one there and no problem, nothing to gain, nothing to do, is a neo-advaiata cop out). In reality, there is the nondual, the dual, both simultaneously, and none of them, all at the same time.

 

Even in my own awakening via a zen koan, there was enough insight retained to see that there was a shift from conceptual identity to awareness, and that awareness itself then descended via the central channel, and merged with the source of awareness, yet it happens so fast to some, that they don't catch the channels, blocks, chakras, dan tians, etc....so you end up with the neo-advaita garbage that's be spewed all over the place and leaving droves of sat sangers empty handed cause, well, there's just nothing to do and no one to do it (or in a miraculous extant that someone does awaken to this, it's merely to awareness, but not its source, or the absolute beingness)

 

But hey, if you dig deep enough to the roots of stuff like dzogchen, advaita, etc...you will see that even those masters have pictures of students cultivating the inner furnace and the three channels....but digress.

 

The whole "acupuncture" thread came about intuitively. I see how "mind" arises via a channel that has its source to inches to the right of the heart. Its literally a nadi like tube that runs along the spine, neck, and into the head with which illusion operates within....and certain foods, full moons, hormones, and yes acupuncture, all have influences on these channels.....

 

But hey......I'm posting this from experience and intuition, not from theories

[Tibetan_Ice]

The mind creates the body. The mind creates samsara and nirvana... The mind, in ignorance, manifests the five lights as impure forms. The body comes from the mind. Why would opening the last man on the totem pole, why would clearing the manifestation, why would pruning the branches effect a change in the root?

 

If one has to swim against the current to get back to the source, you can open all the channels that you want, but you still have to swim back against the current, back to the source. But, you are already at the source, you have to convince your mind that you don't need to swim back to it.

 

It is not you looking from the body inwards, it is you manifesting the body outwards from the source.

 

Redirect the source and the manifestations will change accordingly...

[BaguaKicksAss]

So can Bagua lead to enlightenment?

[GrandmasterP]

Yep.

( In a 'roundabout' way).

Edited July 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[ChiDragon]

So can Bagua lead to enlightenment?

 

I don't think so.

 

Bagua will make you a good fighter but not intentional to be a scholar.

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

I don't think so.

 

Bagua will make you a good fighter but not intentional to be a scholar.

 

Hmm? Being a scholar is irrelevant to enlightenment from all I've seen...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yep.

( In a 'roundabout' way).

 

lololololol

 

I figure, walking the iching, every day, has to at least help a little .

[C T]

Hmm? Being a scholar is irrelevant to enlightenment from all I've seen...

Not if they want to use ten thousand words to beat the dead donkey!

[silent thunder]

scholars tend to have full cups in my experience

[GrandmasterP]

scholars tend to have full cups in my experience

 

Bat shit crazy some of 'em.

Genius maths don at my alma mater in Oxford never left his rooms for four years.

They slid his food and stuff under a gap sawed out the bottom of the door.

[silent thunder]

wow, that's commitment to avoiding folks.

In my head, I just saw him answering the dean as to why he sawed the bottom of said door to allow people free food distribution.

 

well numbers are perfection

and people... *shudder* they're just filthy...

[GrandmasterP]

He did crack Fermat's Last Theorem ( allegedly) but as he's possibly the only one who understands the 'proof' there's still controversy.

Another guy on the faculty, every day he made a deep little razor blade cut on the back of one or other of his hands.

In his fifties he was and you would not believe what his hands looked like!

Can't tell you what he invented or you'll be able to see who it is but what he invented made millions and still does in royalties for Oxford.

Edited July 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[silent thunder]

again I'm reminded.

there is no such thing as normal.

only people or things you don't know very well yet...

[silent thunder]

I can just imagine the abstractions and worlds he inhabits in his mind...

[Brian]

Brian, does this mean if you needle me enough I will become in-light-ened? Just joking....

 

By the way, to address the OP. As IME "there are always higher levels", then "NO" to your question; however, it would depend on your definition of enlightenment - if you mean "awaken" then it is entirely possible as the simple act of a rain drop falling on your nose has the possibility of accomplishing that.

 

I will say, Ya Mu, that "flux" has been significant for me recently. Maybe not a fireworks show but a nearly exhausting probability flux density.