Lama Dorje

[Trunk]

(oops, I mis-posted)

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Does he will the energy outside his hands to glow or does it glow without him wanting them for eg: Just does a certain med for that energy and then it glows?

 

Regards

WYG

[Yoda]

Mantra68,

 

Welcome to Taobums, it's fun to see key people beam up right while we are chatting about them. You've been with Lama Dorje for 6 years, I'd be curious to read a "before and after" report of how Lama Dorje has changed your life.

 

Lama Dorje does strike me as a teacher worth seeing.

 

Sean,

 

Friends are a mixed bag... there will always be things you don't relate with in them... it's ok, just buy yourself a ticket to LA and you and Cam can ask the man.

 

In my limited experience, optics always seem to make interesting lighting and energy phenomenon look hokey and simplified. The incredible sunsets I have photographed look lifeless and canned in the actual picture. I think that there may be situations where fun auras can authentically be caught in a photo but still come out looking like they were done in 30 seconds or less on photoshop.

 

"Corny Photoshop" was my first impression a month or two ago when I first saw the images, but now that I've read some first hand accounts and have spent more time vibing out the dude, I'm inclined to be a believer.

 

Yoda

[witch]

He claims to be able to change a person's DNA! That's one for the Randi Challenge! Easy enough to verify.

 

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[witch]

It's frustrating, because I'm sure this guy really does have mastery, but he blows his credibility by talking ridiculous science, like having a black hole in your brain! People not only need to know what they know, they need to know what they don't know. Like physics!

[Mantra68]

He doesn't actually claim to be able to change your DNA. It is the practice of Kunlun that does this. It activates "junk" DNA which is not junk at all, but dormant information that, once activated, allows you to do some of the things you see in the movie trailer.

 

More importantly, it allows you to cast off that which is not needed, leaving you full of divine, radiant bliss.

 

It is best not to believe anything you read. Always go for the direct experience because then your own truth can be revealed to you. Find out for yourself and you will be amazed at your own true nature.

 

This is Taoism in practice. Quantum physics, applied. No dogma, no philosophy, but direct experience with the unlimited, unknowable Tao.

[Trunk]

He only presents these things to show people how amazing they truly are. He is a very sincere person ...

I think that the posts in this thread demonstrate that he has made a marketing mistake along that line. Some of the things on that site are so unbelievable as to be ... unbelievable. If he could simply trim it back to the "astonishing" level, he would get more students - not drive people away.

 

I think that the people in this thread who think he is sincere and capable think that despite some of his unbelievable claims. Well, at least, that's the case for me.

 

No one else at his level is willing to do this.

Again, that's a little strong. Why not avoid a mess and just say "it's very rare" instead of "no one"?

There are very advanced (crazy-advanced like you-won't-believe-it) teachers teaching in an open-door style ... it's just that they tend to be lesser known, and usually not fully within a traditional lineage format on the outter, but are sometimes fully aligned on the inner. These are wild times.

 

I know. Advice you didn't ask for.

Just my two cents.

[Mantra68]

I think that the posts in this thread demonstrate that he has made a marketing mistake along that line. Some of the things on that site are so unbelievable as to be ... unbelievable. If he could simply trim it back to the "astonishing" level, he would get more students - not drive people away.

 

I think that the people in this thread who think he is sincere and capable think that despite some of his unbelievable claims. Well, at least, that's the case for me.

Again, that's a little strong. Why not avoid a mess and just say "it's very rare" instead of "no one"?

There are very advanced (crazy-advanced like you-won't-believe-it) teachers teaching in an open-door style ... it's just that they tend to be lesser known, and usually not fully within a traditional lineage format on the outter, but are sometimes fully aligned on the inner. These are wild times.

 

I know. Advice you didn't ask for.

Just my two cents.

I appreciate your feedback. You may be right.

 

The great challenge is to present this information in a way that people will not be turned away, but intrigued and inspired. The reason that can be difficult is that after so much immersion in his world, the incredible becomes commonplace, so you have to back-peddle to a time when this was all new to you.

 

If we could ease people into this stuff it might be better, but it is hard because even the foundational information is incredible.

 

Also, there may be others out there with great things to teach, I just don't know very many personally. I can only speak of this tradition and of his lineage. I do know that he has been given the highest teachings of many spiritual traditions and that it is his willingness to openly share this information that sets him apart from others.

[Pietro]

Sounds like the situation where I'd go, learn the tecniques, shut the fuck up and go away. And never, ever, for any reason, discuss about the scientific explenation of what you learned there. And the more I read posts from Mantra68 the more I feel so. Yet I am grateful that he told us how the pictures were done.

 

He doesn't actually claim to be able to change your DNA. It is the practice of Kunlun that does this. It activates "junk" DNA which is not junk at all, but dormant information that, once activated, allows you to do some of the things you see in the movie trailer.

 

More importantly, it allows you to cast off that which is not needed, leaving you full of divine, radiant bliss.

 

It is best not to believe anything you read. Always go for the direct experience because then your own truth can be revealed to you. Find out for yourself and you will be amazed at your own true nature.

 

This is Taoism in practice. Quantum physics, applied. No dogma, no philosophy, but direct experience with the unlimited, unknowable Tao.

 

Beside saying to someone to test things yourself to decide wether to believe it or not is a great way to have many students. Especially in a field where you need a good decade of practice to be able to asctein the truth of some claims. We need to be able to keep our bullshit detectors on, and use it to trim the tree of possibilities.

[Mantra68]

Sounds like the situation where I'd go, learn the tecniques, shut the fuck up and go away. And never, ever, for any reason, discuss about the scientific explenation of what you learned there. And the more I read posts from Mantra68 the more I feel so. Yet I am grateful that he told us how the pictures were done.

Beside saying to someone to test things yourself to decide wether to believe it or not is a great way to have many students. Especially in a field where you need a good decade of practice to be able to asctein the truth of some claims. We need to be able to keep our bullshit detectors on, and use it to trim the tree of possibilities.

Hey Pietro,

I am not sure why you were given that impression, but we never tell people to shut up and go away. And if you have any scientific questions we welcome them. Lama Dorje is very science-minded and known for his ability to explain these things scientifically. I myself am limited in my own ability to explain things scientifically.

 

Also, this practice does not take 10 years to see results. At our last seminar, we had many people open up the first day.

[Yoda]

The wider the appeal, the more watered down things get. I'd say lay it all out and concentrate on getting a few good students who have the right compatibility.

 

The wave of teachers trying to impart general ideals like the Dalai Lama and the like on the Barnes and Nobles shelves are now a given.

 

I'd like to think that the next wave of teachers are the ones who can drill down and unpack the next level of how to actually embody these ideals like David Shen, Lama Dorje, Trunk's Hard Light dude, etc.

 

The only trick is that you have pierce the Barnes and Nobles barrier and deal with the quirks of their personalities, teaching style, sanghas, etc. Fortunately, I think you really can vibe out the basics of a teacher just looking at their image, website and maybe talking to a student or two to see if you have compatibility. The 60s are past us and we are more prepped to take responsibility for our involvement with gurus these days and it sounds like they've modified their act to be a bit more toned down as well, so I think the situation is pretty workable for everyone.

 

~~~

 

Witch,

 

Discover magazine had a great article on epigenetics in the last year... Even by changing your environment or basic lifestyle habits, your genetics can change in short time and these changes can be passed down to following generations. I could imagine that if someone had a profound meeting with Lama Dorje and did the follow up practices, that could make a person 5%-10% happier. If something like this happened, it wouldn't be hard to believe that that could change one's epigenetic codes in a measurable way in the next couple of years that could change the family genetics for generations.

 

Perhaps the new age 12 strand DNA thing might be off, but the essence of the idea is spot on, imo.

 

I'd bet that your diet has improved your genetic codes in the last few years, for instance. From a past post:

 

This month's Discover magazine has an amazing article on epigenetics and how by running mazes, the "dumb" rats may be changing their genetic material. There's some mention that by eating onions and garlic that this genetic manipulation can be enhanced. Which suddenly gives more credence to the claim of an herb to reverse aging, etc... that the expression of certain genes can be squelched or enhanced. Of course, nobody really knows jack about the situation... that's why God created Taobums.

 

Here's the wiki on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_inheritance

 

I'd respond to the wiki article that this insight does open the door to Lamarckist theory and I believe that in the years to follow will prove that Lamarck was right. The Discover article points out that Darwin was at least partially a Lamarckist too.

 

Here's the Discover article: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover

 

Yoda

[sean]

Hey Sean, good to know you.

 

I respect your skepticism because I am the same way. I came from the Ayn Rand, Objectivist school of thought and so my quest was/is only for the truth. However having spent the last six years studying with him I have had to deal with having my mind blown over and over again. It has left me with a much bigger realm of possibilities to consider.

 

Those photos actually are real. Many have witnessed this phenomena and I know it looks like it has been faked but he can explain the process scientifically. It has something to do with the activation of ions in the air and I am not sure beyond that. I can ask him to give the full explanation if you are curious.

 

As to the photo of his eyes, I took the photo, I scanned it and I posted it. It is just a direct flash into his face. He has very light colored irises so maybe it looks odd. No tricks. There is no time for that and it would go against the Tao to try to deceive people.

 

He only presents these things to show people how amazing they truly are. He is a very sincere person and wants to share this knowledge with those interested in learning the ancient, secret ways. No one else at his level is willing to do this.

Interesting, I went through an Ayn Rand phase as well. Read all of her work. Thank you for taking the time to explain the photos, you do seem sincere.

 

Sean

[Pietro]

Hello Mantra68, let me clarify where am I coming from.

 

Hey Pietro,

I am not sure why you were given that impression,

in my daily job I work in academic. I do mathematical models of biological systems. I study evolution. I also have a degree in math. And I don't understand quantum physics. I don't even understand general relativity, although I did had a course at the university about it. Nice equations, I just couldn't get what they actually meant. People around here consider me a smart guy. At the university is the same.

 

In my job I have to pay attention to what I say. Everything that I say have to be bullet proof true. Provable on the blackboard, chalk in hand, writing equations. At times my work consists in tearing apart claims made by others. That's how good science works. This lead me to be very careful to the claims I make, very careful to the topics I touch. This is even more true since my job lies between different traditional disciplines. Like Biology and Chemistry. Disciplines that I never studied during my math degree, but that I have to apply willy nilly in my job.

So every time I write a paper I need to pay attention that someone from those fields will not disprove it. It makes you humble, as you have to admit all the things that you do not know.

Science also makes you humble in forcing you to write papers with the real state of the art. Not saying this is so, but this could be an explenation. We suppose that... . An educated guess would be that... . Because really you don't know. It takes many many experiments from different point of views before a theory is accepted, and considered part of the standard paradigma. And this is good.

I tend to use the same language also when I write on the internet. In fact I even tend to think along those lines.

 

Another thing that scientists generally agree on is that the fact that something seems a good explenation, or you wish it to be an explenation, or it fits what you are looking for, does not mean that it is the case.

 

And a third thing I have learned is that being an expert in a field takes time, and commitment. And only those experts tend to know enough to be able to make semi-definitive claims.

 

So when I find claims like:

this changes the dna,

this other make your junk dna do this and that

taoism is only quantum theory

 

this screams BS to me. Not because the claims are true or false, but because you don't know, you cannot possibly know, but you claim to know.

 

if your teacher was a world recognised authority figure in the academic world of biology, I could have accepted a claim such as: "we don't actually know, but it might even be that it activates part of your junk dna". Hell, I might even believe it to be what happens.

 

And the bigger is your claim, the bigger the authority you have to be. To say that taoism is quantum physics in action, you need at least to be a taoist master (which I gather your teacher is) and a nobel prize in physics. Such a claim, worded like that can only come from someone of that status or it just goes straight to the rubbish bin in my house. And the more you are sure of your claim the faster it goes. Zip, zip.

I value doubt, I value integrity, I value humility that comes from hard work and recognising what you know and what you ignore.

 

So this is why you gave me that impression.

 

but we never tell people to shut up and go away.

 

I am sure you don't.

 

And if you have any scientific questions we welcome them. Lama Dorje is very science-minded and known for his ability to explain these things scientifically.

 

Do not confuse

- the ability to come up with a plausible explenation for something

from

- knowing what is actually going on.

There can be centuries of research done between one and the other. And, as I said, if someone makes this confusion, which Igather you do, maybe your teacher doesn't, I not only doubt their theory, but their scientific preparation as well.

 

also, this practice does not take 10 years to see results. At our last seminar, we had many people open up the first day.

 

Sorry, poor scientist, I wish you could have experienced it but you were not among the lucky ones. Try again next time.

 

Just FYI, I have a teacher, he is a lineage master too, he too sometimes make unsubstantiated claims, and I answer him as I do to you. During class at times. It's happening less often lately, . You are not getting an unfair treatment from me, I am an asshole all-around.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Pietro

[Mantra68]

Hello Mantra68, let me clarify where am I coming from.

in my daily job I work in academic. I do mathematical models of biological systems. I study evolution. I also have a degree in math. And I don't understand quantum physics. I don't even understand general relativity, although I did had a course at the university about it. Nice equations, I just couldn't get what they actually meant. People around here consider me a smart guy. At the university is the same.

 

In my job I have to pay attention to what I say. Everything that I say have to be bullet proof true. Provable on the blackboard, chalk in hand, writing equations. At times my work consists in tearing apart claims made by others. That's how good science works. This lead me to be very careful to the claims I make, very careful to the topics I touch. This is even more true since my job lies between different traditional disciplines. Like Biology and Chemistry. Disciplines that I never studied during my math degree, but that I have to apply willy nilly in my job.

So every time I write a paper I need to pay attention that someone from those fields will not disprove it. It makes you humble, as you have to admit all the things that you do not know.

Science also makes you humble in forcing you to write papers with the real state of the art. Not saying this is so, but this could be an explenation. We suppose that... . An educated guess would be that... . Because really you don't know. It takes many many experiments from different point of views before a theory is accepted, and considered part of the standard paradigma. And this is good.

I tend to use the same language also when I write on the internet. In fact I even tend to think along those lines.

 

Another thing that scientists generally agree on is that the fact that something seems a good explenation, or you wish it to be an explenation, or it fits what you are looking for, does not mean that it is the case.

 

And a third thing I have learned is that being an expert in a field takes time, and commitment. And only those experts tend to know enough to be able to make semi-definitive claims.

 

So when I find claims like:

this changes the dna,

this other make your junk dna do this and that

taoism is only quantum theory

 

this screams BS to me. Not because the claims are true or false, but because you don't know, you cannot possibly know, but you claim to know.

 

if your teacher was a world recognised authority figure in the academic world of biology, I could have accepted a claim such as: "we don't actually know, but it might even be that it activates part of your junk dna". Hell, I might even believe it to be what happens.

 

And the bigger is your claim, the bigger the authority you have to be. To say that taoism is quantum physics in action, you need at least to be a taoist master (which I gather your teacher is) and a nobel prize in physics. Such a claim, worded like that can only come from someone of that status or it just goes straight to the rubbish bin in my house. And the more you are sure of your claim the faster it goes. Zip, zip.

I value doubt, I value integrity, I value humility that comes from hard work and recognising what you know and what you ignore.

 

So this is why you gave me that impression.

I am sure you don't.

Do not confuse

- the ability to come up with a plausible explenation for something

from

- knowing what is actually going on.

There can be centuries of research done between one and the other. And, as I said, if someone makes this confusion, which Igather you do, maybe your teacher doesn't, I not only doubt their theory, but their scientific preparation as well.

Sorry, poor scientist, I wish you could have experienced it but you were not among the lucky ones. Try again next time.

 

Just FYI, I have a teacher, he is a lineage master too, he too sometimes make unsubstantiated claims, and I answer him as I do to you. During class at times. It's happening less often lately, . You are not getting an unfair treatment from me, I am an asshole all-around.

 

Ah don't be so hard on yourself. You just want the truth like anyone else. I personally wish I had the ability to explain everything but I don't.

 

What I can do is give you my best understanding of what I have experienced. I can say that I have not been sick since starting this practice six years ago and I can say that I have experienced states of unbearable bliss, and I can say that I have had insights into my own nature and I have ascended through increasingly pure levels of self until I stood before the divine light of creation. What I cannot tell you is what I learned because those insights are for the individual to experience himself.

 

This practice will take you to that point very quickly though.

 

I can also tell you that it is the analytical mind (like mine) that finds the most difficulty in finding success with Kunlun. It took me a month and a half of practice before I personally was able to open up to this energy.

 

In a way, analyzing this practice from scientific basis is kind of like analyzing the hell out of a sexual experience. You can figure out the process, and once you know all of that you realize that it is the experience that is most important.

 

Hope that helps.

[Trunk]

in my daily job I work in academic. I do mathematical models of biological systems. I study evolution. I also have a degree in math.

Pietro's points are really well spoken, and from serious background of extensive education.

 

I would also add that I think you would lose most serious-thinking people who ever took a high school level biology course. I'm not saying that the claims are absolutely false, but unbelievable enough to lose credibility. And my impression is that you are sincere, and that Max is sincere and capable, and I want you to do well - for everyone's benefit.

[witch]

Men. You read that Discover article and from it you got that exercises and taoist energy and right-thinking can change your DNA. That article discussed two things--food and other ingested substances, and the effect of maternal care on brain development in infants. The only odd thing out was the spines in water fleas. Jumping from water fleas reacting to predators to humans changing their DNA through deep-breathing exercises and yoga is a pretty big stretch. Particularly since I doubt VERY much that this teacher has had any DNA testing done whatsoever.

 

On the other hand, it does make a good argument for the importance of a good diet and avoidance of pollutants. Which frankly it looks like your teacher could use, he looks old and a bit sickly for his age, undoubtedly due to the rigors of what he has gone through to acquire his extremely impressive lineage. I don't understand why he just doesn't talk about his lineage and the experiences of people who come to his seminars. He hurts his credibility by talking junk science.

 

Don't mind me, I am very opinionated and not a taoist. I guess I'm tao-curious. I'm also very fat and right now I have a bad cold, I'm not saying I'm enlightened or anything like that.

[Mantra68]

Pietro's points are really well spoken, and from serious background of extensive education.

 

I would also add that I think you would lose most serious-thinking people who ever took a high school level biology course. I'm not saying that the claims are absolutely false, but unbelievable enough to lose credibility. And my impression is that you are sincere, and that Max is sincere and capable, and I want you to do well - for everyone's benefit.

I am just a student trying to help. I am not the master. Only he can give you what you are looking for. I will see if he is interested in taking part of these discussions.

 

I can only say that these ancient methods work and very quickly. If you want to discuss the specifics of a practice, perhaps I can help. I can discuss the end result of these practices and can speak on what one might experience while practicing.

 

I can say that in general women open up more quickly than men, because this is a inner feeling practice. It works when one is able to let go of the analytical mind. Us men usually have a hard time with that one. Once you can achieve a state of half-awake half-asleep while practicing, you will experience the dynamic power of this most secret Nei Gung.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that Taoist masters have always understand how to apply Quantum Physics but had their own interpretation of how it all worked. Modern science may be better able to explain Quantum Physics in scientific terms, but have very little idea of how to apply it.

 

These worlds are coming together and both sides will need to work together for the benefit of us all.

Edited August 30, 2007 by Mantra68

[Cameron]

Well...don't know about the rest of you..but I for one am excitied about this opprtunity to learn from Lama Dorje.

 

Umm..just for the record..was anyone besides me interested in going to the September seminar?

[Mantra68]

Well...don't know about the rest of you..but I for one am excitied about this opprtunity to learn from Lama Dorje.

 

Umm..just for the record..was anyone besides me interested in going to the September seminar?

Hey Cameron,

We just got the venue lined up for September's seminar. You can find out more here: http://www.risingredphoenix.com/seminars.html

 

Or to keep up to date on events check here: http://meditation.meetup.com/396/

 

See you there man. Yer gonna love it.

 

Chris

[portcraig]

Cameron, I am planning to attend Lama Dorje's (Max's) seminar in September. It will be my second seminar with him and am looking forward to it. I had some reservations before I attended the first one in August. The movie trailer seemed pretty wild and I didn't know what to think of it but for some reason I was drawn to attend the lecture and seminar. When I first saw Max he was dressed like a normal person as he didn't have any robes on like in the movie. He is quite friendly and quite knowledgeable and goes out of his way to make people feel welcome. I guess best of all is that the meditation he was teaching seemed to be working for almost all the people in the room. It has kept working for me since the seminar and I look forward to doing the meditation each night. Hope to see some of you there. Craig

Edited August 30, 2007 by portcraig

[宁]

I also agree with Pietro's view.

But I also have to add that what we know on DNA seems to change these days, as I mentioned on another topic. It's not only genetic engineering that can change your DNA. It seems we can do it, and we do it, on a daily basis.

It's not the first time I hear the "junk DNA" theory, and it may explain some things.

But just so you know, there is a growing oppinion out there that claims DNA is not the Absolute Ruler.

DNA reacts to the environment.

Even more, it reacts to our interpretation of the environment.

It reacts to concepts, and beliefs.

I hope guys like Pietro could investigate this and make a professional oppinion on it.

 

Before you make any assumptions, please watch "The New Biology" by Dr. Lipton.

 

PS: Witch, I seem to have taken a liking to ya. So I keep bombing info on you.

For instance, you should know that the body stores energy as fat. What can this mean, regarding energy practice? How can this be overpassed? I wont answer these questions, I'm sure you will find a answer.

[witch]

Well actually part of me enjoys being fat. But I know what I need is more fire work and air work, more moving my body and breathing properly. I need those male things, I'm all earth and water. I mean, I'm here, aren't I? We all have strengths and weaknesses and can help each other. It took the common sense of a woman to fish the starving Buddha out of the river and feed him--nobody knows everything.

 

Speaking of which, in particular I think the man needs iron, I think he's low on iron.

Edited August 30, 2007 by witch

[Yoda]

I think Witch is perfectly enlightened and sexy.

[Matt]

Edited February 7, 2009 by Matt

[宁]

witch, you're a total riot

Iron she says, iron....