Lama Dorje

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Can u explain some of the information on the dvd, does it teach lin kong jing skills?

[lino]

Can u explain some of the information on the dvd, does it teach lin kong jing skills?

 

lin kong Jing?

 

What's that?

 

It taught standing Kong Jing.

[Oolong Rabbit]

The DVD had 2 parts. The first hour was some description of his Tibetan experiences, and the second was a one hour group session of Kong Jing (basic standing meditation). During the Kong Jing he moved around the crowd and held his hands a few inches away from various parts of their body to remove energy blockages. It didn't really look like much as an observer. I will give you a brief summary of his Tibetan experience based on the notes I took:

 

Max made some sort of pilgrimage to a Nyngma monastery in Himalayas. When he got there all of the Tulku (reincarnated Lamas) were getting ready to perform the death rites for the Head Lama (he said they called him the 'Purba' which was also what he called some little Tibetan relic they gave him). This Lama was 98 years old, had been reincarnated 17 times and was one of the Dalai Lama 's teachers. (Anybody have a guess as to who this may be?). Max then told them he was there to heal a sick Lama. He did some sort of "transfer" (he doesn't go into details) and then went into the wilderness to gather healing herbs and cured him. According to Max you are not allowed to touch a High Lama on the top of his head. The reason for this taboo is that if you are developed and were so inclined, you could "steal" their power by touching them there. Max did it as part of his treatment, and is the only westerner ever to have touched a High Lama on the head.

 

All of the the lower monks would bow and prostrate before this Head Lama, but Max did not believe in authority so he would not prostrate. Max said he greated him in the Daoist tradition instead by grabbing his robe and tapping their foreheads together three times. The Head Lama would also walk by and tap the other monks on the head, but would hit Max pretty hard. The other monks said that this is a gesture of respect. The harder he hits you, the more he respects you. Apparently it is intended to help awaken and open you up. The traditional blessing is also for the monk to spit on top of your head. According to Max everytime he was in the pressence of the Head Lama there would also always be thunder and lightning in the sky (sounds like lei shan dao stuff).

 

His reward for healing the Lama was to be initiated into their teachings. This monastery specialized in the development of the Rainbow body, and the main initiation involved a month long 'dark retreat'. He was led down a stairway that went underneathe the temple, through a cave with magnetic walls (I believe he called it Guru Rinpoche's cave). All along the pathway was the bones of previous monks who had failed the ordeal. They made him eat some extremely hot chili peppers with no water as part of a process to purify his body. He was then put in a dark box for a month. Once in the box, his meals consisted of only hot peppers daily and tupa soup every 3 days which was made with buffalo (is meat acceptable to Nyngma Buddhists?).

 

After he graduated the dark retreat and various other seclusions he went through an initiation called "disillusionment" whereby eight high Lamas stand around you. You experience extreme heat, extreme cold and then disillusionment where the body feels like it is composed of very fine particles or liquid mercury. You then feel a pop in 3 areas (solarplexus, heart and third eye) and then the body looses it's polarity and expands outward. Afterward one will never experience blockages again. Apparently after this experiences your essence does not want to return to it's physical form, but the eight monks are stationed there to force you to return. Afterwards he refused to don the robes, as he was was more interested in teaching others thann remaining in seclusion.

 

He was given the name Dorje Tsering which means "indestructible lifetime". Dorje is the name of the Nyngma clan he is associated with . Tsering means "life". Oh they also told him he is a turku (reincarnated Lama).

[Kunzag]

 

I'm really sorry, but I like check things out. So I asked about "Lama Dorje" He claimed to belong Ralo Rinpoche's line. This letter arrived today:

 

 

Tashi Delek!

 

 

 

Due to Ven. Ralo Rinpoche's arrival in Washington D.C. it has been a very busy month. I could not reply to you at my earliest convenience. By the way, I am Ven. Ralo Rinpoche's daughter, Kunsang. I understand your doubt and you definately have the right to ask questions about anything related to dharma. And to answer your question. Ven. Ralo Rinpoche the master of Phurba lineage has never given the authority to instruct Phurba teachings to anybody until today. He has only given numerous empowerments and teachings to his students about Phurba. I hope this answers your questions.

 

 

 

Tashi Delek!

 

 

I really wanted to believe!

[mantis]

His reward for healing the Lama was to be initiated into their teachings. This monastery specialized in the development of the Rainbow body, and the main initiation involved a month long 'dark retreat'. He was led down a stairway that went underneathe the temple, through a cave with magnetic walls (I believe he called it Guru Rinpoche's cave). All along the pathway was the bones of previous monks who had failed the ordeal. They made him eat some extremely hot chili peppers with no water as part of a process to purify his body. He was then put in a dark box for a month. Once in the box, his meals consisted of only hot peppers daily and tupa soup every 3 days which was made with buffalo (is meat acceptable to Nyngma Buddhists?).

 

After he graduated the dark retreat and various other seclusions he went through an initiation called "disillusionment" whereby eight high Lamas stand around you. You experience extreme heat, extreme cold and then disillusionment where the body feels like it is composed of very fine particles or liquid mercury. You then feel a pop in 3 areas (solarplexus, heart and third eye) and then the body looses it's polarity and expands outward. Afterward one will never experience blockages again. Apparently after this experiences your essence does not want to return to it's physical form, but the eight monks are stationed there to force you to return. Afterwards he refused to don the robes, as he was was more interested in teaching others thann remaining in seclusion.

 

He was given the name Dorje Tsering which means "indestructible lifetime". Dorje is the name of the Nyngma clan he is associated with . Tsering means "life". Oh they also told him he is a turku (reincarnated Lama).

 

wow that last part sounds so crazy. really interested me.

Edited September 23, 2007 by mantis

[Pero]

I'm really sorry, but I like check things out. So I asked about "Lama Dorje" He claimed to belong Ralo Rinpoche's line. This letter arrived today:

...

 

 

Well, that certainly decreases credibility, but doesn`t necessarily mean he doesn`t belong to his lineage, just that Ralo Rinpoche "has never given the authority to instruct Phurba teachings". Unless if Max claims this? (sorry, I didn`t keep track)

 

Thanks for writing them a letter.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Pero

[Oolong Rabbit]

Well, that certainly decreases credibility, but doesn`t necessarily mean he doesn`t belong to his lineage, just that Ralo Rinpoche "has never given the authority to instruct Phurba teachings". Unless if Max claims this? (sorry, I didn`t keep track)

 

Thanks for writing them a letter.

 

I am not sure if Max claims to have the authority to instruct Phurba teaching, although he may be slipping some into his work none the less. During the video he caught himself a few times and said that he had to be careful how he said some things as he had taken certain oaths. He also said in the video that he doesn't believe in authority which is why he refused to prostrate before the head lama. At this point though, I am totally confused as to who the 98 year old monk that that he supposedly healed was. Ralo Rimpoche was born in 1933 so that would make him 74 at present. Also which was it: the older monk or Rimpoche who he experienced the thunder and lightning around?

 

From his website:

 

"Later in life, Max received empowerment of the Santig Dorje Phurba from Ralo Rinpoche at the Phodrang Monastery in Nepal. Of the Nyingma order of Tibetan Buddhism, Ralo Rinpoche gave him the title "Nakpha Dorje" which identifies him as one who has the power to awaken dormant powers within. "

 

Kunzag, what exactly was it you asked Rinpoche? Did you ask if Max had visited the monastery, or if he healed the sick monk?

[Cameron]

I honestly could care less who Sifu Max studied with. He is a Master. The guy is a Dragon.

 

I don't want to say too much but when your body is bouncing a few feet in the air and you have lost all

sense of yourself and then some dude lightly taps you from behind and you come back down and then feel like you are magnetically glued to your seat it sort of puts the term "have a beginners mind" into a whole new light.

 

If anyone else that attended the workshop wants to say anything great but that's all from me for awhile. It is going to take a little for me to formulate some coherent thoughts about this.

 

Cameron

[portcraig]

Hey Cameron, I am glad you took a chance and went to the seminar and had a good experience. Yes it looked like you were having an intense experience this afternoon. Nice meeting you and some of the other guys from the forum. It was my second seminar and I felt like I am progressing in my Kunlun practice. It is great that Max wants to share it with us! Craig

[DentyDao]

 

If anyone else that attended the workshop wants to say anything great but that's all from me for awhile. It is going to take a little for me to formulate some coherent thoughts about this.

 

Cameron

 

What a great experience. First of all, it was great to meet and hang with all of you guys and get to know you a little. Second, Max is a very talented and powerful teacher. I would say at least 50% of those who attended had an experience similar to what Cameron described in varying degrees of intensity. People were laughing, crying, and going into all manner of spontaneous movement. And, I would venture to say that everyone felt something tangible. Even though I have committed to other practices, I was glad I went and definitely feel that I benefited from the transmission that Max gave. It was also inspiring to see many relative beginners exposed to something authentic; even if they don't continue the practice, they will probably look at things a little differently and probably never forget this experience. Anyway, in my novice opinion, I think Max worth taking a closer look at; thumbs up.

 

S to the D

[Kunzag]

I am not sure if Max claims to have the authority to instruct Phurba teaching, although he may be slipping some into his work none the less. During the video he caught himself a few times and said that he had to be careful how he said some things as he had taken certain oaths. He also said in the video that he doesn't believe in authority which is why he refused to prostrate before the head lama. At this point though, I am totally confused as to who the 98 year old monk that that he supposedly healed was. Ralo Rimpoche was born in 1933 so that would make him 74 at present. Also which was it: the older monk or Rimpoche who he experienced the thunder and lightning around?

 

From his website:

 

"Later in life, Max received empowerment of the Santig Dorje Phurba from Ralo Rinpoche at the Phodrang Monastery in Nepal. Of the Nyingma order of Tibetan Buddhism, Ralo Rinpoche gave him the title "Nakpha Dorje" which identifies him as one who has the power to awaken dormant powers within. "

 

Kunzag, what exactly was it you asked Rinpoche? Did you ask if Max had visited the monastery, or if he healed the sick monk?

 

I just asked, if he is really a lama, authorized by Ralo rinpoche, if he really has the lineage connections. Yes, he may have the connections, but so is the other few hundred, or thousand, who got the empowerment. But it is not about teaching, but pacticing If you check his website you can find this, among the subjects he is teaching:

"Elements of Santig Phurba Practice: learn the mantra, visualizations, and essence of Nyingma tantra of the ruthless compassionate one. This class will explore the basics of Cave Lama practice that is without the ceremonial ritual elements." Sound good, but without authorization it's just messing with serious karma.

 

Refusal of prostration is not only a bad manner, but pure ignorance concerning what this is all about. It's not a contest of who is the bigger dog, but a gesture of respect towards the Buddha within. " If you see a dog like a Buddha, you get the Buddha's blessing, when you meet, but if you see a Buddha like dog, you get a dog's blessing."

 

He may be a powerful man, with lots of skills, but why he has to present himself this way? Ralo rinpoche's daughter answered to me a very eastern way. She just said that the guy is an impostor, in case, you can not decode what she wrote politely.

 

I really wanted to believe Max, against all my better knowing of tibetan buddhism. Two days ago I had a clear dream of my Lama, who gave me a book. In the book he said that Max is not a Lama. I woke up and still mistrusted my dream, although it was very definite answer. Then the email arrived.

 

Why?

 

Even if I want to trust his Taoist connections, which I can not check, how, after this? He could say: ok guys I checked out some nyingma stuff, I feel I can do better than them, without too much ritual. You don't have to be a lama to be very powerful.

 

Do you know who Lobsang Rampa is? He wrote some books on tibetan buddhism. He claimed to be the clairvoyant of the Dalai Lama, healer, etc. Later it turned out, that he was a plumber in Manchester. He even claimed to have changed body with the English guy, in order to fulfill his mission.

 

So, now I stop. If you experienced nice things meeting him, good for you. I hope you get enlightened soon, and have a nice thought about this unbeliever, with too much dust on eyes. I will not write more on this subject of distrust, but I am really interested, what explanations or excuses can you find?

 

Have a better day!

[Cameron]

edit-

 

Ummm..since I know diddly squat about Tibetan Buddhism would probably be better I not even say anything here.

 

Thank you and goodnight!

Edited September 24, 2007 by Cameron

[Buddy]

So, in a world of blind men, the one eyed man is king?

[Cameron]

So, in a world of blind men, the one eyed man is king?

 

 

Huh?

[gendao]

I would say at least 50% of those who attended had an experience similar to what Cameron described in varying degrees of intensity.

I agree with this. Which makes it harder for any skeptic to write him off.

 

He did do many demos with his assistants too (similar to what you saw in his vids) - which the diehard skeptic could always say were "faked" by them. Although watching them in real life, I personally doubt that. The displays were very convincing to me. Which is not to say you'd see the same visible effects on just anyone. Max himself even said that they had a "mind agreement" between them since any effects were ultimately therapeutic. And so they happily cooperated - even if that meant physically resisting at times.

 

Now, if he did the same thing on a truly unwilling person with closed channels - I don't know what would happen. Perhaps that person's reactions might not be as visibly severe or he might risk internal energetic injury. Who knows.

 

But the fact that he can get open, willing "ukes" to react so strongly is still a testament in itself.

 

And to get half or more of us nooby students to really feel something - often something really intense - is even more difficult. I cannot speak firsthand here yet because I did not feel anything strong yet, but I did see Cameron and others reacting quite violently and seemingly rather involuntarily.

 

So in my opinion, the guy has some real power and is of a very high level. Probably extremely. I seriously doubt he is just some "Lobsang Rampa" paperback hack. At the very very very least - he is an extraordinarily-talented group hypnotist with an encyclopedic scholarly knowledge of Eastern (and some other) mystery schools. Or...he is basically what he says he is.

 

As far as his lineages and teaching credentials, etc - I personally can't give an informed opinion since I am not familiar with all those specifics. He does seem rather knowledgeable about many different schools, lineages and practices, though.

 

Personally, I think he is like a free mind that may not enjoy dealing with messy politics. And is also caught in a precarious balance where the old safeguards that were used to preserve traditions...now also threaten to destroy them. In a modernizing world where sincere students and authentic masters are both rapidly becoming extinct. A similar bind that "John Chang" struggled with. Where he wants to leave this world or just enjoy a simple life, but is bound to stay and help us. Then wants to teach things but may be bound by previous oaths not to. Wants to disseminate power but must also take safe responsibility for that. The whole Prometheus complex, in a nutshell. It's probably a very thin tightrope to walk and if he wobbles a bit, I don't think that simply discredits him as a whole. It's hard to find a perfect solution to such a complex problem.

 

I don't get the sense that he is arrogant or intentionally disrespectful. Just irreverent and playful. Perhaps that is his strength, and at times, his weakness. He is human, after all. The guy loves pizza & sweets, for god's sakes!

 

Well, this was all just my humble opinion and initial impression. I probably said too much, at the risk of possibly eating some words later. Or more likely not. Time will always tell more. And if I unintentionally misrepresented Max, I apologize and will gladly stand corrected. But overall, it was probably the most amazing weekend of my life yet - not just due to Max "The Main Event," but also some of the other incredible people I met there. Thanks to Max & everybody involved for making it happen!

Edited September 24, 2007 by vortex

[portcraig]

The two seminars that I have attended Max hasn't taught anything related to Tibetan Buddhism. He did tell a few stories of his experiences. Max seems to be just focusing mainly on the Kunlun practice. I suppose he could share some of his practices from Tibetan Budhism in private if you were interested.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 7, 2015 by 三江源

[Yoda]

The funeral for the Nyingma (sp?) teacher sounds like Dingo Khentse Rinpoche who was the head of the lineage who died several years ago.

 

I don't think Tibetan validation is necessary for the dude especially now that we have the Taobum report back in the file.

 

If you don't feel good about Max then that's a good sign that he's not the right teacher for you.

 

Yoda

[Cameron]

It's all good. People hold whatever views they want. If someone wants to check Max out check him out. If they want to think it's bs think it's bs and write him off. It's just that simple to me. Follow your path.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Refusal of prostration is not only a bad manner, but pure ignorance concerning what this is all about. It's not a contest of who is the bigger dog, but a gesture of respect towards the Buddha within. " If you see a dog like a Buddha, you get the Buddha's blessing, when you meet, but if you see a Buddha like dog, you get a dog's blessing."

 

99.9% of people would have prostrated I am sure, myself included. I got the sense from the video that he is against tradition simply for tradition's sake. I am pretty sure he's not ignorant, and he also seems to be pretty humble, so i think there is more to it than that.

 

 

So, now I stop. If you experienced nice things meeting him, good for you. I hope you get enlightened soon, and have a nice thought about this unbeliever, with too much dust on eyes. I will not write more on this subject of distrust, but I am really interested, what explanations or excuses can you find?

 

Have a better day!

 

I am not looking for excuses. I want to find out if he is the real deal just like you. That's why I ordered the videos, which were some of the less interesting from a practical point of view, but contained more disussion about his background. I wanted to see if my BS detector went off. That having been said, my conclusion is either that he has read a ton of books on eastern philosophy/religion and is able to spin some good yearns on the fly, or else there is something to him.

[Pietro]

Being an external person to all this I think I can try to make some balance of the whole thing. The guy obviously has some power. But quite obviously has also no official permission to teach this stuff.

(Thanks Kunzag for writing that letter)

 

I think that in this day where it is fairly easy for a person to find teachers and accumulate knowledge, we are bound in the next years to see this happening more and more.

 

Also there is a sort of vague confusion going around that if someone does not have the permisision to teach he must not be able, and if he has the permission than he surely was able.

 

So Yoda seems satisfied with Cameron report, but that talls me only that he has power... so what?

 

I personally see the issue of permission and power as two fundamentally separated issues. A person might not be given permission for a whole bunch of reason, or be given permission for others, like political reasons. Generally I don't consider having permission from the authority to teach to be enough for me to be interested in them. But in all those years of meditations I have had many, many unauthorised teachings. And for one reason or another I always ended up understanding why they were not authorised. Not having power or not being able to make you feel strong sensations was never one of those reasons.

 

From the other side I have seen myself and many other people lose a lot of time in following those people. Yes we learned a lot, but eventually there was something that was missing, something that just wasn't right. Some moral teachings that came with the power, teaching that were doubtful because of some of the things you eventually discovered about the person. And then it takes ages, literally years to untangle the mess and understand what should be kept and what shouldn't. For goodness sake, look at where we all are thanks to out good old chinese-thai friend. Where we don't even know if doing a powerlock is a healthy procedure that will increase our probability to maintain well, or make us more prone to injuries and neural instability. And I am not speaking about not knowing how to do the procedure, but for people who know perfectly, tested with many teachers, how to do it.

 

Or what shall we say about Osho, or Castaneda, just to cite the more famous, the one we all are familiar with.

 

Many years ago I was in the army, was compulsory in Italy. In the same group, with me was a fascist guy, ex streetfighter. Being the only other person with a degree (law, of course), and of opposite political spectrum we became soon friend. In the army, in Italy, there is a very silly game in which someone pretends to hit you with a fist in the balls. If you move, trying to protect, you get to "pay for the move", which means getting a real hit on the shoulder. Very stupid, I agree. One time someone did it to this streetfighter guy. He protected, and the guy asked him to "pay for his move". He replied, "no because I will always move. The risk is just too high, I will NEVER let you pretend to hit me in the balls without moving". Since he was respected, no one said anything.

 

Here the situation is similar:

the risk is just too high. You are giving an incredible amount of power to someone you don't know. And someone who does not have official permission to use this power. Why? We don't know, and at this stage any explenation could only come from the authority, anything from him would be doubtful.

 

So for me I generally go for people who have both the authority-approval and the power. The intersection. Yes, they are few, it takes ages to find them, but once you found one you are set for many years.

[sunshine]

Hi Pietro,

 

I am curious. How can one ever know for sure that someone has the authority or not? I mean: okay. In some cases there are family lineages... but what about the first one in that family. That person could have still been unauthorised, thereby producing generations of by him authorised people but in actuality non-auhtorised as well...

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

Harry

[gendao]

I'm really sorry, but I like check things out. So I asked about "Lama Dorje" He claimed to belong Ralo Rinpoche's line. This letter arrived today:

 

Ven. Ralo Rinpoche the master of Phurba lineage has never given the authority to instruct Phurba teachings to anybody until today. He has only given numerous empowerments and teachings to his students about Phurba.

I guess I don't necessarily see the conflict here?

 

Simply claiming to have studied in someone's line is different than claiming to have gained teacher status there...or even having studied directly under that lineage holder himself.

 

I've studied Yang-style Taijiquan. Doesn't mean I studied it directly under Yang Luchan or was permitted to teach it from him.

 

Also, Max taught Kunlun in the workshop, not Phurba.

 

Sooo...if there's a smoking gun somewhere...I don't think this is it.

Edited September 24, 2007 by vortex

[Pietro]

Hi Pietro,

 

I am curious. How can one ever know for sure that someone has the authority or not? I mean: okay. In some cases there are family lineages... but what about the first one in that family. That person could have still been unauthorised, thereby producing generations of by him authorised people but in actuality non-auhtorised as well...

 

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

Harry

Hello Harry,

when they have authorization, then it is simple. And often you do find people who start something new and had authorization from a previous lineage (isn't this how the Yang style started?).

 

But of course it IS POSSIBLE that there are other people who have no authorization and still are very good. Or people who had secred authorization just before the master died, and then no one can witness it.

You will know for sure only many generations later.

Now you can only bet or play secure. If you had no choise, I would say, consider betting. But with the abundance of teacher and teachings we have right now. With so many school that are teaching directly, I really see no point in risking years of your life on someone you just can't be sure.

[sunshine]

Thankx Pietro,

 

I am getting your point.

 

 

Harry