Lama Dorje

[Vajrahridaya]

Pero, I had experiences at the seminar and in practicing the meditation since then, that is why I am recommending studying with Lama Dorje. Almost everyone else, probably about 80 percent of the people in the room, also seemed to be having experiences. Everyone seemed to be having different type of experiences I guess based on what they needed to work through or what is holding them back from having an awakening. I have only attended one seminar so I don't really know what it is all about except it seems to take myself into a type of trance and meditation state. At the seminar several people were going through spontaneous laughter episodes as they kept laughing (I didn't have that experience.) I heard a couple of people speaking in toungues. Some people seemed to be shaking quite wildy. Several people were moving around in spontaneous yogic postures which included myself. I also found my body going into certain yogic postures and found myself frozen in those positions. Max had to help me out of one at the end. I also had some visions that appeared to me during trance. One guy was in such a deep trance that they couldn't wake him so they just left him alone and eventually he came out of it. Max talked about some people have the experience of going through a type of death experience and then experiencing an enlightenment during meditation. So I guess the answer to your question is yes I had some experiences and I seem to be having experiences everytime I sit for meditation. Lama Dorje gives an empowerment to the people at the seminar. You can read the book but I think you need to see him at least once for it to work for you.

 

Matt, I attended David Verdesi's Foundation Training in Thailand a year ago and was fortunate to meet Sifu Luo. In July I went to Denmark for David's retreat. I am currently taking a break from the Foundation Training.

 

Sounds like old Swami Muktananda intensives and what I've seen in Siddha Yoga intensives which I grew up in and going to and having such "experiences" but found Buddhism to be more objective about such experiences and later found a Buddhist Master with a great reputation and lineage support. It's fine to have such experiences, but the proper understanding and contextualizing of these experiences must be cultivated as well. Muktananda did genuinely cultivate a proper Shaivite perspective in his students about the experiences if one actually read all his books, but that doesn't make it the same as a Buddhist context. So this guy is saying he's Taoist, Buddhist, Native American trained teacher? Hmmmmm.... New Age gumbo soup anyone?

 

Eh... everyone learns at their own pace and has to go through their karma but being as objective as possible really is a good thing. Having siddhis' is not the same as having genuine wisdom to share. Experiences without insight (vipassana) can be damaging.

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[Vajrahridaya]

Very good -O-.

 

I also wanted to mention how surrendering can be good when cultivation of right view is there. But surrender to another person's merit lets that person take control of you and you become an agent of that person or deities merit instead of cultivating one's own. The Buddha was very clear that high levels of Samsara feel really blissful but do not have insight into dependent origination so it's unwise to cultivate a sense of ultimacy around them.

[Aetherous]

O,

 

The sensation your are expereincing is too much energy coagulated up at that spot - forcefully focussing intent will result in this. Kong Jing, soften the focus of the eyes and keep the breath in the belly will disperse the energy. Question: When you surrender into the chest to open up - are you "looking" there (unintentionaly) either with your minds eye - or physically?

 

Thank you very much for your reply! It's the same answer and advice I got from Max and Chris. I put what they suggested into practice, and it's been working tremendously.

 

To answer your question, I'm still getting a grasp on the surrendering to the heart aspect of the practice. I have been putting my whole self in the heart space...all awareness there. That may not be the best way to do it. It seems that there is a certain way to do it which can't be explained easily at all...but the results (expansion of energy body and emptiness) show when it's being done correctly. So...workin on that!

[forestofclarity]

And why were you reluctant to share?

 

Even if no one agrees openly, you never know where your arrows are going to strike.

 

I think this bears repeating, both for myself and for others.

 

 

The key to recognising when this happens is a rambling, driven mind; and the content of the thinking involved will always have a connection back to self importance (I'm now enlightened, or now I get it just let go). Even self importance by proxy (my teacher is so great, I saw the lineage, the Jade emperor adopted me in spirit). No matter how "out there" or how ordinary (for instance interest in the history of the practice - or interest in the mechanics of what is happening) at it root it is the same - form given to awareness, structure given to energy which, if you are dedicated to your practice, will eventually need to be dissolved. Surrender, letting go allows the process to continue, as well as cultivating the energy. Forming opinions, new appendages to our identity (I'm a kunluner, I'm a bodhisattva, I'm am advanced practitioner) halts the process, so does theory history etc.

 

Edited June 22, 2009 by forestofemptiness

[Vajrahridaya]

Forming opinions, new appendages to our identity (I'm a kunluner, I'm a bodhisattva, I'm am advanced practitioner) halts the process, so does theory history etc.[/size][/font]

 

Shouldn't one be objective about the history of what one's learning, how many it has liberated and how it has effected other people? Being in a formless non-discriminative awareness in a spaced out trance that does not have opinions or thoughts is not enlightenment.

 

That's just a formless bliss realm of Samsara.

 

One should cultivate objective open awareness of things and how they work, their links and outcomes, etc. As well as be aware of awareness with vipassana.

 

Being both intuitive, instinctive and seeing through it are all good.

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[Aetherous]

It's not a problem that you were commenting on my practice. I share it freely with others and especially like when knowledgeable people give me tips. I was sincere in saying thanks.

 

I'll keep what you have said in mind, that it's too much forced intention. It seems the same way to me. Forcing the whole awareness into the heart isn't the same as surrendering to the heart! So thank you again for that new tip, and I will put it to good use.

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[farmerjoe]

Also building community around the practice - like a forum only encourages the participants to form and re-enforce the identity as part of the kunlun community, draw lines between the inexperienced, the advanced, the infidels etc. But both the forum and the marketing messages hinge off the same issue(problems) that the kunlun practitioners which are having problems with which the kunlun practioners who are experiencing problems are dealing with... motivation. If the seat of your motivation is centered outside of yourself - then you will look outside of yourself for the answers to your problems. If not found then frustration builds and an identity around that will begin to be formed and acted on.[/font]

It is very important to point out two things. The experiences which occur in the practice are only that - sensations. They are not verification of truth, advancement, etc.

 

Are you Philip? Are you or were you a student of Max's? Did you learn what you have written from Max? If so why isn't he teaching this at the seminars too? Why would Max set up a website and encourage community if what you write is true? Would this not encourage a dependence on the teacher and the community? How come you know this and they don't? Joe.

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[farmerjoe]

The content on the site and forum is not the schools shortcoming - it is the students' (sorry if this offends).

 

Do the Kunlun students agree with this statement? There was no involvement or encouragement from Max to journal or post? Joe.

 

 

 

 

Did you learn directly from Max? If so was it important to learn directly from him? Would you say it

was/is important to see him occasionally for guidance? do you teach Kunlun? Thank you for answering my questions.Joe.

Edited June 25, 2009 by farmerjoe

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[Owledge]

Poison for poison - thoughts which dissolve the thinker - are the only appropriate word teaching with these kinds of practices.

This is a very interesting aspect and poses the question where to draw the line, or whether this should be variable - adapted to the practitioner. I created this little theory based on my own experience that also here you sometimes have to make one step back in order to be able to make two forward. Or to say it more clearly: Maybe the optimum way of being taught is different for everybody, because: In order to get to B, you HAVE to start at A. Do you know what I mean? I don't disregard explanation or knowledge, because it has actually helped me finding Kunlun, and diminished fear and increased compassion. All only through gaining understanding by doing research.

 

As an example: For someone who is a lot in the head, it might be especially difficult to open to the subtle energies because there's no idea about what they are and no provious experience about how to bring them about. A heart-centered person might KNOW what to do when told to let go and open the heart, but for a 'heady' person to reach the same goal, it might be very helpful to explain it in detail. This is more helping than hindering. But it often lacks there - when the teacher offers a fixed procedure for everyone without taking/having the time to examine the "A" from which the journey is supposed to start.

 

I hope that soon I will understand all this a lot better, but this is just where I am right now.

 

As a sidenote: You might not believe it, but I think that maybe this warned-of attaching to phenomena might also be that one step back that enables progress, because when motivation is missing, this could help immensely. Whether someone 'falls into the trap' of attachment is simply a matter of self-awareness. I'm doing so much self-reflection that I kinda have a strong 'controlling instance' like another personality in terms of awareness that takes care about myself to not fall into traps and studies myself as a case, like a psychologist studies a patient. That often means that when I'm dealing with a problem, I'm aware that it should not be a problem at all, but know that simply knowing this won't solve the problem. I sometimes just can't help it, but I'm fully aware of the whole complex.

 

Of course, this personal aspect is a matter of available time. It's just that practicing Kunlun as a total beginner, without a group and in a quite non-supportive environment is really freaking hard! And these difficulties and lack of outside help lead to the necessity to deal with all these matters by myself, and this leads to the dilemma, because this is very head-biased again. Some influences just can't be thwarted. Maybe later, but that's time-inverse, you know. That's why the beginning is the hardest. It's like in order to be able to travel from A to B, you first have to mentally arrive at B and know the place.

[farmerjoe]

Consider that what I have written in my initial post has actually ROBBED you of coming to that lesson for yourself.

 

I don't think this statement has or can ever be true for anyone. During the OMG moments people forget what they don't really know. Joe.

 

 

 

Yes I learned directly from Max - but at a distance - mostly through phone calls and faxes. With some procedures it is nessesary to check in with the teacher as there can be side effects. I do not teach - I am not a master - I have not been initiated into any lineage - I have no affiliation to or speak on behalf of Max or the school or anyone else- (I have never claimed this as well). I do not believe that one needs assisstance for Kunlun - but again I am not a master, teacher, qualified or have any credentials. As I have said here before - it does not matter who I am and I am not anyone of importance. Take my words based as they are not based on who has spoken them.

 

Thank you for your posts. I have appreciated them. Joe.

[Aetherous]

Consider that what I have written in my initial post has actually ROBBED you of coming to that lesson for yourself.

 

I have never liked surprises, and was actually in it for what you describe anyway. This will have saved me time...thanks again.

[de_paradise]

Neat-O, O.

 

>emotionally based reasoning goes here<

>ego reinforcing narration of life goes here<

>self-aggrandizing hint of great progress goes here, another one by proxy<

>more emotional based reasoning, conclusion<

 

Thanks,

[Aetherous]

Eh true. Can't help it man! Just wanted to say thanks.

[de_paradise]

Heh, I didnt mean you Scott. Its pretty much the model for most posts I've written here.

[-O-]

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Edited August 25, 2009 by -O-

[de_paradise]

OOPs, Sorry for the non-sequitur. I assure you that at the time in my head there seemed to be a relation to what you mentioned in another post. No harm intended guv'ner. Im reminded of this song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EE59Ex5Px4

Edited June 27, 2009 by de_paradise

[Aetherous]

Excellent song.

[Siliconvalley1]

Great song and a lovely video as well

[zen-bear]

Oops. I'm little confused. I read a good number of posts on this thread and couldn't figure out what its topic--general or specific--was. But I think this thread is about the practice of Kunlun.

 

By its name, "Lama Dorje" I thought it was about the person and teachings of Lama Dundrop Dorje who who is a Tibetan lama based in the U.K. who is also a very high level Tai Chi master and long-term bodyguard to high lamas such as the late HH Lama Penor Rinpoche. At any rate, very nice sample of Lama Dorje's Tai Chi teaching and explication of the Buddhist path:

 

 

peace out,

zen-bear

[C T]

in a world full of magic and wonder, some displays impress more than others, some leave lasting impressions, while most other plays deemed insignificant recede into the world of dreams, where all possibilities begin.... before manifestation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYI7sk9Phsc

 

Is the above credible?

 

 

 

generally, its always good to Be wary of deception. Depend on your own higher wisdom. Test everything more times than necessary before jumping up and down gleefully as though finding a hidden piece of precious jewel.

 

As for this Lama, wasn't he Chinese before assuming the 'tibetan lama' role? I remember a couple of my friends used to learn Wing Chun from him years ago. Probably not too profitable teaching Wing Chun. Not saying he is fake, but would be nice to get some updated info on his 'tibetan' affiliation.

 

Sorry, Zen Bear... the word out here in Europe is that he is without repute.