Lama Dorje

[RiverSnake]

Oops. I'm little confused. I read a good number of posts on this thread and couldn't figure out what its topic--general or specific--was. But I think this thread is about the practice of Kunlun.

 

By its name, "Lama Dorje" I thought it was about the person and teachings of Lama Dundrop Dorje who who is a Tibetan lama based in the U.K. who is also a very high level Tai Chi master and long-term bodyguard to high lamas such as the late HH Lama Penor Rinpoche. At any rate, very nice sample of Lama Dorje's Tai Chi teaching and explication of the Buddhist path:

 

 

peace out,

zen-bear

I do not have the necessary eyes to see. But he seems quite impressive….both in his martial skill and in his spiritual and philosophical insight. Thanks for sharing Zen-Bear.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited February 3, 2014 by OldChi

[adept]

Oops. I'm little confused. I read a good number of posts on this thread and couldn't figure out what its topic--general or specific--was. But I think this thread is about the practice of Kunlun.

 

By its name, "Lama Dorje" I thought it was about the person and teachings of Lama Dundrop Dorje who who is a Tibetan lama based in the U.K. who is also a very high level Tai Chi master and long-term bodyguard to high lamas such as the late HH Lama Penor Rinpoche. At any rate, very nice sample of Lama Dorje's Tai Chi teaching and explication of the Buddhist path:

 

 

peace out,

zen-bear

 

Nooooooo !!

Not this again !

Please please please stay away from him.

Please see this thread and especially my comments.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/28324-is-the-energy-bubble-created-in-the-fusion-of-the-5-elements-process-the-same-energy-bubble-that-lama-dondrup-dorje-uses-for-empty-force/

[C T]

I do not have the necessary eyes to see. But he seems quite impressive….both in his martial skill and in his spiritual and philosophical insight. Thanks for sharing Zen-Bear.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

He is impressive alright, charging up to $10k for a 2-week retreat for those who clamber furiously to join his 'elite' sangha. Lots of shady undertones, verified by some members here on this very forum. Please dont get so easily swayed by displays of energetic manifestations. Keep a pure practice, and stick to it. One is enough.

[C T]

Here, some really cool words of wisdom from a real practitioner.... rappin' yogi extraordinaire!

 

[thamosh]

Oops. I'm little confused. I read a good number of posts on this thread and couldn't figure out what its topic--general or specific--was. But I think this thread is about the practice of Kunlun.

 

By its name, "Lama Dorje" I thought it was about the person and teachings of Lama Dundrop Dorje who who is a Tibetan lama based in the U.K. who is also a very high level Tai Chi master and long-term bodyguard to high lamas such as the late HH Lama Penor Rinpoche. At any rate, very nice sample of Lama Dorje's Tai Chi teaching and explication of the Buddhist path:

 

 

 

peace out,

zen-bear

 

I think they were talking about this guy.

 

One of the things I like about this is that he made a trailor demo'ing some of his skills and thats always cool.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c80SMogtrHs&feature=youtu.be

Edited February 3, 2014 by thamosh

[adept]

He is impressive alright, charging up to $10k for a 2-week retreat for those who clamber furiously to join his 'elite' sangha. Lots of shady undertones, verified by some members here on this very forum. Please dont get so easily swayed by displays of energetic manifestations. Keep a pure practice, and stick to it. One is enough.

 

Exactly, CT.

The interweb is full of charlatans, con-men (and women !) and all sorts of not very nice people.

The martial arts, fitness/health and spiritual/religious domains seem to be the ones that unearth the most unsavoury characters.

Folks, please do your homework on anyone you have an interest in learning from. It doesn't take much time and could save you years of misery, confusion, ill-health and financial ruin.

[Apech]

I think they were talking about this guy.

 

One of the things I like about this is that he made a trailor demo'ing some of his skills and thats always cool.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c80SMogtrHs&feature=youtu.be

 

Max! Long time no see.

[Seeker_Of_Truth]

He is impressive alright, charging up to $10k for a 2-week retreat for those who clamber furiously to join his 'elite' sangha. Lots of shady undertones, verified by some members here on this very forum. Please dont get so easily swayed by displays of energetic manifestations. Keep a pure practice, and stick to it. One is enough.

 

The 99% need spiritual-ity.

[thelerner]

I think they were talking about this guy.

 

One of the things I like about this is that he made a trailor demo'ing some of his skills and thats always cool.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c80SMogtrHs&feature=youtu.be

Years ago, I read reviews of people who'd gone to his seminars and thought about going. It seemed like a unique form of chi gung, simple and effective. I was put off by some of his grandiose literature and videos (like this one), still am. But I liked the seminar, it wasn't sky high expensive(about $300 at the time), Max came off as a pretty mellow, be your own guru kind of person. He definitely had juice. I'd recommend people interested go to a seminar or buy the book.

 

Whats shown in the video is imo silly distraction. Giving people, particularly those who've been in your system a long time, a blissful epileptic seizure is not where we should be aiming imo.

 

I'd recommend it, but

[thamosh]

Years ago, I read reviews of people who'd gone to his seminars and thought about going. It seemed like a unique form of chi gung, simple and effective. I was put off by some of his grandiose literature and videos (like this one), still am. But I liked the seminar, it wasn't sky high expensive(about $300 at the time), Max came off as a pretty mellow, be your own guru kind of person. He definitely had juice. I'd recommend people interested go to a seminar or buy the book.

 

Whats shown in the video is imo silly distraction. Giving people, particularly those who've been in your system a long time, a blissful epileptic seizure is not where we should be aiming imo.

 

I'd recommend it, but

 

 

Max has spiritual power I can sense that. So I would concur with what you said about him having some juice.

 

Kunlun seems to be a cool practice.

 

It just seems the marketing for it was a little heavy thus id say the best promotion for any qigong is the practice itself.

 

Meaning kunlun was good enough just to stand on its own "laurels".

 

But max did bring something of the tibetan lamaism to the for front of chinese qigong and that's always cool.

Edited February 3, 2014 by thamosh

[C T]

The 99% need spiritual-ity.

the 99% need spiritual-ity

if only they listened to their own normal-ity

throwin hard-earned bucks

into pockets of those

who swagger like ducks...

aint no way, yor mama wont pay

so wake up, y'all

dont be fooled by them glammy gurujis

cos all they care for

is their annual vacation

to St. Dalfour!

 

 

 

 

(sorry, got a little carried away...)

[zerostao]

the 99% need spiritual-ity

if only they listened to their own normal-ity

throwin hard-earned bucks

into pockets of those

who swagger like ducks...

aint no way, yor mama wont pay

so wake up, y'all

dont be fooled by them glammy gurujis

cos all they care for

is their annual vacation

to St. Dalfour!

 

 

 

 

(sorry, got a little carried away...)

[zen-bear]

Exactly, CT.

The interweb is full of charlatans, con-men (and women !) and all sorts of not very nice people.

The martial arts, fitness/health and spiritual/religious domains seem to be the ones that unearth the most unsavoury characters.

Folks, please do your homework on anyone you have an interest in learning from. It doesn't take much time and could save you years of misery, confusion, ill-health and financial ruin.

I've been around both the Chinese martial arts world and the new age barnyard for exactly 40 years and I've seen every type of cult, phoney guru, and charlatan-driven-only-by-avarice. I've also had my skills (as a counselor and certified hypnotherapist trained in the mid-1980's-- hired and well-tested as a counselor to help (by "deprogramming") some very, very deeply troubled, off-the hook, "almost-gone" victims of truly diabolical cult manipulation.

 

I have the Chinese martial arts background to attest just by viewing his demo on the Singapore police video that Lama Dundrop Dorje's skill is real. He put in his years (decades) in traditional Chinese martial systems and he is recognized by both Chinese physical culture and he is an authentic Tibetan lama and the long-time bodyguard of the late great lama, Penor Rinpoche--or so I was told (I have no verified knowledge of this claim). I have numerous students in Tai Chi Chuan, Qigong and kung-fu on both coasts of the U.S., and many of them are affluent. One of them (in L.A.)--a student who I have taught on a weekly basis for the past 7 years--has taken Lama D. Dorje's 2-week meditation intensive at his Pathgate foundation outside of London twice in the past 2 years. He came back both times with good results and a creditable report...although he was surprised at what the Lama put him through both retreats: a week of seated meditation 6 hours a day. Lama Dorje uses his high-level Tai Chi skill to attract students and to "hook" them into how he teaches the Buddhist path--which I assume he is formally sanctioned to do. Every teacher has their appeal, and "target market"--either conscious or subconscious...just because Lama Dorje attracts the well-to-do who can afford $10K workshops (and reportedly favors a particular Italian high-end fashion label) does not mean that he is a fraud or charlatan. His Buddhist knowledge seems real, his Tai Chi looks advanced and formidable, and if he is a Tibetan lama, then he has something to teach some niche of humanity--however small and wealthy. So I reserve judgment until I see an immoral act of some kind.

Peace out.

ZB

 

P.S. I like the Eric Burden song. For the evil shit I've seen in the cult-pervaded 1980's in California with the likes of baghwan rajneesh (chased out of Dalles, Oregon and deported for contaminating the entire town with disease-causing bacteria in order to win a local election--and resurrected as "Osho" of late by his surviving money machine), another Indian "holy man" with a huge worldwide following, whose followers mimicked his every habit-- but who died 3 months after he was exposed having sexual relations with a 16-year old girl), and "Ramtha" who had followers trying to heat rocks on top of their heads in meditation(!), all gave creedence to the saying:

 

"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

Edited February 10, 2014 by zen-bear

[adept]

I've been around both the Chinese martial arts world and the new age barnyard for exactly 40 years and I've seen every type of cult, phoney guru, and charlatan-driven-only-by-avarice. I've also had my skills (as a counselor and certified hypnotherapist trained in the mid-1980's-- hired and well-tested as a counselor to help by "deprogramming" some very, very deeply troubled, off-the hook, "almost-gone" victims of truly diabolical cult manipulation.

 

I have the Chinese martial arts background to attest just by viewing his demo on the Singapore police video that Lama Dundrop Dorje's skill is real. He put in his years (decades) in traditional Chinese martial systems and he is recognized by both Chinese physical culture and he is an authentic Tibetan lama and the long-time bodyguard of the late great lama, Penor Rinpoche. I have numerous students in Tai Chi Chuan, Qigong and kung-fu on both coasts of the U.S., and some of them are very, very affluent. One of them (in L.A.)--a student who I have taught on a weekly basis for the past 7 years--has taken Lama D. Dorje's 2-week meditation intensive at his Pathgate foundation outside of London twice in the past 2 years. He came back both times with good results and a creditable report...although he was surprised at what the Lama put him through both retreats: 2 weeks of seated meditation 6 hours a day. Lama Dorje uses his high-level Tai Chi skill to attract students and to "hook" them into how he teaches the Buddhist path--which he is formally sanctioned to do. Every teacher has their appeal, and "target market"--either conscious or subconscious...just because Lama Dorje attracts the well-to-do who can afford $10K workshops (and reportedly favors a particular Italian high-end fashion label) does not mean that he is a fraud or charlatan. His knowledge is real, his martial arts is formidable, he is a Tibetan lama, and he has something to teach some niche of humanity--however small and wealthy. So I reserve judgment until I see an immoral act of some kind.

Peace out.

ZB

 

P.S. I like the Eric Burden song. For the shit I've seen in the cult-pervaded 1980's in California with the likes of baghwan rajneesh (resurrected as Osho of late by his surviving money machine), "Ramtha" who had followers trying to heat rocks on top of their heads in meditation(!), a particular Indian "holy man" with a huge worldwide following, were sterling examples of the adage:

 

"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro."

 

Honestly, I don't know why I bother !

I live in the same locality as Mr. Peter Young (Yeung, Dr, Sifu, Professor, Lama), or whatever he chooses to call himself these days. He is well-known as a bully, liar, fraud, cheat and con-man. The only titles he has are the ones he's made up for himself. He has no authority to teach, either martially or religiously.

He has limited skill, at best. The only skill he has is that he's an expert on hoodwinking gullible students.

But hey, don't just take my word for it:

 

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13442

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=9597

http://tibetanaltar.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/tibetan-buddhist-cults-run-amok.html

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23785-lama-dondrup-dorje/

http://thetaobums.com/topic/4088-lama-dorje-number-two/page-2

Edited February 6, 2014 by adept

[C T]

never trust a 'teacher' who resorts to will-breaking tactics.

 

Buddhism is based on loving-kindness & compassion, and genuine teachers never try to make their students become subservient.

 

Despite first-hand accounts of his dodgy dealings, people still refuse to accept the facts, choosing instead to push the agenda further.

 

By all means, go take refuge with a fraudster.

[adept]

Despite first-hand accounts of his dodgy dealings, people still refuse to accept the facts, choosing instead to push the agenda further.

 

Why do people continue to do this ? It's baffling.

[C T]

Why do people continue to do this ? It's baffling.

Because of misdirected motives, i guess. Karma and ignorance begins to roll at that level, even before any 'doing' takes place. The prevalent mind states just prior to taking any action are the main causes for the accruement of karma and its perpetuation, not just the action itself.

[RongzomFan]

The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

[Taomeow]

I have never, ever heard anything bad about Max from anyone who studied with him in person. I've heard much, much bad stuff about him from people who never did.

 

Makes you wonder...

[zerostao]

is this thread simultaneously talking about 2 different lama dorje's?

that is my take, and it can be confusing. (will the real lama dorje please stand up?)

[NotVoid]

zerostao wrote:
"is this thread simultaneously talking about 2 different lama dorje's?
that is my take, and it can be confusing. (will the real lama dorje please stand up?)"

Yes, I think this thread was originally in regards to Max Christensen (AKA Lama Ngakpha Dorje),
and some other people have diverged to discussing Peter Yeung (AKA Lama Dondrup Dorje).

Regarding Peter Yeung, I have never met him so I don't know what he is like as a person, but his empty force stuff and his current organization does seem questionable, but some videos I have seen of him from years ago demonstrating his martial arts was pretty impressive. He does appear to have some real martial arts skills from what I saw in some of those old videos. It is interesting that Max Christensen also demonstrates an empty force thing as well with his students in that video that was posted of him here. Not everything is straight forward and black and white in this world. We always have to keep our eyes open and use our perception and best judgement.


Peter Yeung (Lama Dondrup Dorje) Martial Arts Demo from 1989

Edited February 6, 2014 by NotVoid

[liminal_luke]

Some people naturally vibe with Max. For others, his style isn't so appealing. If you belong to the later camp, my advice is to put your skepticism aside for some period of time and just do Kunlun, see what happens. Marry the practice, not the instructor.

[Tibetan_Ice]

never trust a 'teacher' who resorts to will-breaking tactics.

 

Buddhism is based on loving-kindness & compassion, and genuine teachers never try to make their students become subservient.

 

Hi CT

So you've got it all neat and tidy in your conceptual box.

 

Perhaps you could explain to us how exactly your statements don't contradict the stories of cruelty and subservience of Tilopa and Naropa?

 

http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/lineage/kag03.php

 

Eventually, Naropa saw Tilopa sitting on a very high cliff. He went over to him and prostrated, again requesting Tilopa to be his teacher. Tilopa responded by saying, "If you were really desperate and determined to learn about the teachings, you would obey my order to jump off this cliff without any hesitation because you would be able to understand how important it is to follow the commands of your master." Naropa jumped off the high cliff and fell to the ground. All his bones and joints were broken into many, many pieces. Tilopa went down to Naropa and inquired, "Are you experiencing any pain?" Naropa replied, "The pain is killing me!" This is how Naropa got his name. ("Na" in Tibetan means "pain," "ro" means "killing" and "pa" makes the word a noun.) Tilopa gently touched Naropa's body and all his broken bones joined together and were healed.

 

Did Naropa say "Asking me to jump off a cliff does not sound like a loving-kind and compassionate thing to tell me to do!"

Did Naropa ask "Why are you trying to break my will?"

 

Explain that.. or perhaps Tilopa and Naropa weren't Buddhists?

 

more from that page.. just the opposite point of view...

 

If we compare the life stories of Milarepa and Naropa, both experienced extreme hardships. However, Naropa experienced more intense pain than Milarepa, but the duration of Milarepa's experiences was longer.

In case any of us might still be wondering if such harshness is really necessary to reach enlightenment, let us take the example of a vessel that is encrusted with rust. The rust on the metal container is so rough that trying to remove it with a soft cloth and gentle hand, we would not be able to remove any rust at all. The more effective way to remove the rust would be to find another very rough substance even rougher than the rust. If we rub the container with this, then the rust can be removed. Similarly, the negative karma obscuring the true nature of mind cannot be removed by softness or gentleness, nor can the achievement of realization occur if a teacher is overly kind. Harshness is needed. If a teacher allows his students to be lazy and is too soft-hearted, the students will be unable to uncover and purify their mental stains. Harshness and roughness on the part of the teacher are essential.

 

 

 

 

 

TI

[Owledge]

@Tibetan_Ice

I would say that generalizations aren't helpful. It requires skill to figure out when a gentle approach is advised and when it's not. In fact there are enough examples where a gentle touch was the only thing that could break up a hardened crust, and also enough examples where only 'tough love' could solve the problem.

From my ponderings on this matter, I would say that the advised approach depends on the willingness of the student to change. If someone doesn't really want to resolve issues, but just have others acknowledge them so that it's more convenient to live with them, then a hard approach might be advised. (But it's still a tricky terrain.) But if the intention to learn and change is sincere and something not in the student's control is preventing it, then a gentle approach might to the trick. (But here again, this could also mean that the student is willing to endure a rough approach.)

Not only does it require skillfulness to determine the right course of action, but also the action itself can be smart or blunt. Furthermore, the ability itself to switch between different approaches, depending on the situation, is a skill that not every teacher/master has. It requires a certain degree of selflessness and not succumbing to the convenience of "I'm just doing my thing. If it doesn't work for you, it's your problem."

 

It all boils down to the principle of balance. What is the imbalance that creates a problem? What causes it? And then to decide whether the wise course of action is to remove the cause for the imbalance or to add a counterweight, or both, and when to do which.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Owledge

[RongzomFan]

Hi CT

So you've got it all neat and tidy in your conceptual box.

 

Perhaps you could explain to us how exactly your statements don't contradict the stories of cruelty and subservience of Tilopa and Naropa?

 

http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/lineage/kag03.php

 

 

 

Did Naropa say "Asking me to jump off a cliff does not sound like a loving-kind and compassionate thing to tell me to do!"

Did Naropa ask "Why are you trying to break my will?"

 

Explain that.. or perhaps Tilopa and Naropa weren't Buddhists?

 

more from that page.. just the opposite point of view...

 

 

Are you asking CT to be even remotely consistent??

 

Good luck with that.