Lama Dorje

[Smile]

Interesting conversation...

The expereince gained being with Sifu Max was very special and the transmission helped me to speed up the process of "letting go". Imagine the happiest time of your life but there is no reason for it and you just drunk a few double expesso and all of the effects last a whole day. This is the feeling I get. Smiling for no reason. From the heart.

There are many things could be said. The direct experience would be a much better choice to understand what the teaching is about. I'm glad I went and honored to meet and get to know some of the people that were only names before. It was as special as the workshop itself.

Max

[Trunk]

... I'm curious to know how bliss leads to/is connected with awakening/enlightenment/karmic release/whatever it is we're all after. Do people not get attached to blissful states and then go to bliss realms and fail to cultivate? Or are there safeguards against that?

I had similar concern which, as I see it, is basically "resolution of energetics into emptiness/stillness/light" and later "emptiness and bliss conjoined".

 

What I saw during the seminar is that some people would be processing their channels ~ tissues through shaking, sounds, etc., and that some would be processing personal stuff through laughing & crying etc., and that some people (with prior training I assume) would be focusing more on stillness through the practice. During the seminar, at least, there wasn't any instruction as to how that all mapped together; it was just "take the position and be with whatever happens". There's a sort of simple beauty to that - it disengages the intellect and allows for whatever is there, but there's also danger in that (lacking stillness instruction) people might just go 'round & 'round with personal processing and energetic variations for ever.

 

I took the topic up with Max during private session. (DISCLAIMER: The following is major paraphrasing, and my recollection & understanding of what he said, not direct quotes.) Basically, we were on the same page re: accessing stillness via the deep-centers and the central channel. He had a clear understanding of it that generally jived with what I've been talking about for some time here (link: core vessel). And, it was clear that he was accomplished in it. The states were present as he talked about it, he ain't just whistlin' dixie.

 

However, he's really into allowing students to process the stage that they're at. The centers gradually get activated, the crud gradually processes out, centers gradually mix and harmonize vertically with each other, the deep-centers gradually are realized and lined up, and plumbed to Depth. He's cautious against giving someone an intellectual map that forces them into a stage that is not where they're actually at, and indicated that such a contrived forced approach is counter-productive.

 

So far so good. And that's a pretty darned good approach when you're trying to teach 60 people in a room at once.

 

My finicky thoughts:

It seems clear to me that the kunlun method does work effectively on some approaching stages. It's worth while for that, and for it's simplicity. What I don't know is if the kunlun practice, alone, actually naturally leads to that deep-center accomplishment. Maybe it does, but I don't as yet see how. But if one knew about the deep-centers and about what to do with the yi and energy there, and maybe had other practices that more directly went to the deep-centers, the kunlun could (at the least) definately play a strong supportive role towards that.

 

I also don't know if his students are actually getting that part of the equation. The stillness basis, in understanding. Maybe Max gives them that instruction when the student needs it, when they naturally come to the cusp of that.

 

Can you say anything about what the purpose of raising the heels is and how it works?

It seems to help somehow, I don't know how or why. I find if I very gently "spread my toes" that it opens the sole of the foot a little more, and that helps. Especially in contrast to scrunching the toes or constricting the foot, which one might mistakenly do when raising the heel, and I think would be a hindrance. Raised, but relaxed and open.

 

~~~

 

One of my general thoughts on this thread is that people are being way too tough on Lama Max. And that it's part of the syndrome of being starved for the right information, repeatedly misled, injured, etc, and looking for the one source (teacher, system) that has ALL of it, everything, just per-fect-ly. The realistic, practical solution is that you can only hope to get part of what you need from any one teacher - and if they can give you some good part of what you need, then it's a good deal. The answer is a culture that has a variety of good resources, not in trying to demand an impossibly inhuman amount from one guy. It's a sort of unintentional cruelty towards a teacher, to expect and demand that much. One person just can't possibly say everything, from all the angles, nor be everything to everyone.

[Cameron]

Another point, which I think has been adressed already. And sort of fits into what Trunk said about Max's students.

 

I was very impressed with Max's top students. Richard, Kan, Chris and this amazingly beautiful woman who's name I forgot .

 

These people were just beaming with bliss. There is a definetly a higher quality of energy or vibe I got from them. I don't want to compare to other teachers I have met since all these systems have there unique beauty and value. But like I told the guys at lunch the first day..there is just something really amazing about being able to get peoples energy/vibe whatever that powerfully moved in a 2 day workshop.

 

So from alteast that perspective the "Does in 1 hr what other systems do in a 100 years" does have atleast some validity, and could be totally true for all I know.

 

However, I am convinced this practice can "take you all the way". Just the Level 1 practice combined with the Red Phoenix practice feels like a pretty complete system to me already.

 

The emphasis on things like "re-enlightenment" rather than accomoplishing some super advanced level. Shaking off that which is unneeded and returning to your true nature.

 

Returning to the ocean of consciousness, Buddha Nature, Tao etc.

 

As Yoda might say "I am convinced!"

Edited September 27, 2007 by Cameron

[portcraig]

I might add that Max told me that combining Kunlun with the Red Phoenix practice creates the golden dragon body which he said is the highest state a Daoist can attain. So it isn't just a Kunlun practice. I am also practicing the Maoshan 5 elements standing exercise everyday. I have practiced a lot of standing nei kung exercises previously however they never seemed to effect me like these one do. I definitely feel much more energy since I started the practice. Craig

[mark72]

hey craig,

 

Its almost my first post here,have been a'lurking for a while!

I wonder if you could explain about the exercises you mention here?

 

What is the purpose of the Red Phoenix exercise?

Is the Mao shan exercise a similar to zhang zhaung?Does it ,as the name implies,work on the 5 elements and 5 main organs?

 

Did Max teach these at the Kunlun seminar?

 

Im going to be assisting in the organising of Max's trip to Australia in January btw.

 

thanks.

 

Mark

 

 

I might add that Max told me that combining Kunlun with the Red Phoenix practice creates the golden dragon body which he said is the highest state a Daoist can attain. So it isn't just a Kunlun practice. I am also practicing the Maoshan 5 elements standing exercise everyday. I have practiced a lot of standing nei kung exercises previously however they never seemed to effect me like these one do. I definitely feel much more energy since I started the practice. Craig

[Mal]

 

Im going to be assisting in the organising of Max's trip to Australia in January btw.

 

Mark

 

Just when I was sulking that my book is still in the mail ........ Some Good news

 

Going anywhere in Queensland?

 

p.s. Nice lurking

Edited September 27, 2007 by Mal

[三江源]

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Edited April 18, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited March 7, 2015 by 三江源

[sunshine]

It's just an old joke. It basically means I answer to pretty much anything.

 

 

I might call you one day

 

Harry

[Pietro]

I am not interested in your sympathy and I don't appreciate the way you talk to our friend Cameron. Your apologetic, condescending tone rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Nasty and arrogant.

Yes, I have no problem with that!

Also, your fears are unfounded. ...

maybe, time will tell.

Your teacher must be very patient with you.

Oh yes! He surely is.

[portcraig]

Mark, Regarding your questions on the Red Phoenix and the Mao Shan 5 elements.

 

Max told me that Kunlun and Red Phoenix were two of the original schools. He said that ordinarily Red Phoenix took 20 years to learn but by practicing it with Kunlun it can be very quick. Red Phoenix is used to develop "abilities" like he has. When you combine it with Kunlun you can achieve the Golden Dragon Body which he said is the highest state a Daoist can attain. The Daoists that have done this have basically tansmuted their body into a higher or finer state of energy. Max told me that he learned Red Phoenix 29 years ago and that all of his grandmsters practice it. He found out how powerful it was once he gave up all of his other practices.

 

Max taught the Mao Shan 5 elements at the first seminar in August. He didn't teach them at the second seminar I guess because of the time factor and also he decided to teach Red Phoenix instead at that one. If you want him to teach them I would just let them know before the seminar. Perhaps he can fit them in. The Mao Shan 5 elements are like zhang zhaung. There is a standing posture for each of the five elements which are wood - liver, fire - heart, earth - spleen, metal - lungs, water - kidney and they are practiced in that order. I have practiced a lot of zhang zhaung before but these have more of an impact on myself in regards to energy level afterwards. I don't know if it is the order or posture or what. Anyway in the beginning each posture is held for 5 to 7 minutes. The last two days I tried 10 minutes each and I think I may have overdid it because I feel like too much energy came into my body.

 

I hope my explanation helped. Max will give you a much better description of Red Phoenix and the five elements at the Australian seminar.

 

Craig

Edited September 27, 2007 by portcraig

[Cameron]

Maoshan 5 Elements sounds awesome!!

 

However, I must say I am not disappointned he taught Red Phoenix instead.

 

LB

[Yoda]

I was very impressed with Max's top students. Richard, Kan, Chris and this amazingly beautiful woman who's name I forgot huh.gif .

 

 

Having impressive students is a sign that I always look for. Sounds like SeanD was impressive too.

[Cameron]

Sean D is the man!!

[mark72]

Hey mal,

 

As far as i know Sydney sounds possible.

Thats all i know so far,( and im in no position to suggest any authority btw!).

As to other locations you should contact mantrs68- chris for information.

 

Keep checking the post....

 

mark

 

 

Just when I was sulking that my book is still in the mail ........ Some Good news

 

Going anywhere in Queensland?

 

p.s. Nice lurking

[mark72]

Craig,

 

Yes,many thanks for the explanation.

I look forward to getting to grips with these.

 

Would it be correct to say that the Red phoenix practice is the Hung lung Zhaun nei gung as described in the book (and on the website i think) ?

 

I have seen Hung Lung translated as fire dragon previously with regards to a Longmen Pai practice called fire dragon qigung .It would be interesting to know whether the two are related-Max's being an earlier form of the Longmen perhaps, or just using the same name.

 

January is gonna be interesting.

 

m

 

 

Mark, Regarding your questions on the Red Phoenix and the Mao Shan 5 elements.

 

Max told me that Kunlun and Red Phoenix were two of the original schools. He said that ordinarily Red Phoenix took 20 years to learn but by practicing it with Kunlun it can be very quick. Red Phoenix is used to develop "abilities" like he has. When you combine it with Kunlun you can achieve the Golden Dragon Body which he said is the highest state a Daoist can attain. The Daoists that have done this have basically tansmuted their body into a higher or finer state of energy. Max told me that he learned Red Phoenix 29 years ago and that all of his grandmsters practice it. He found out how powerful it was once he gave up all of his other practices.

 

Max taught the Mao Shan 5 elements at the first seminar in August. He didn't teach them at the second seminar I guess because of the time factor and also he decided to teach Red Phoenix instead at that one. If you want him to teach them I would just let them know before the seminar. Perhaps he can fit them in. The Mao Shan 5 elements are like zhang zhaung. There is a standing posture for each of the five elements which are wood - liver, fire - heart, earth - spleen, metal - lungs, water - kidney and they are practiced in that order. I have practiced a lot of zhang zhaung before but these have more of an impact on myself in regards to energy level afterwards. I don't know if it is the order or posture or what. Anyway in the beginning each posture is held for 5 to 7 minutes. The last two days I tried 10 minutes each and I think I may have overdid it because I feel like too much energy came into my body.

 

I hope my explanation helped. Max will give you a much better description of Red Phoenix and the five elements at the Australian seminar.

 

Craig

[portcraig]

Mark, I don't know the answer to that question. Perhaps Chris can answer that or you can ask Max at the seminar. Craig

[Cameron]

Red Phoenix.....Red Phoenix....Red Phoenix.......

[rain]

Red Phoenix.....Red Phoenix....Red Phoenix.......

 

lama laama laaaamaaa

 

I wish you good luck

 

tell madmax the madhatter to treat you right

Edited September 27, 2007 by rain

[Cameron]

I won't call Sifu a madhatter.

 

However I did tell him he reminds me of Strider from Lord of the Rings.

 

He thought I was saying he reminds me of Frodo. And I was backtracking..no..no..the big..guy...the guy who becomes the king.

 

It was rather funny.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Cameron

[rain]

I won't call Sifu a madhatter.

 

However I did tell him he reminds me of Strider from Lord of the Rings.

 

He thought I was saying he reminds me of Frodo. And I was backtracking..no..no..the big..guy...the guy who becomes the king.

 

It was rather funny.

 

I think it is a lot of fun you guys being there, trying it out. I wish the very best for all of you.

to me he will be the wonderful mad hatter.

(don't go telling everybody of the resemblance to Strider... you already have a "rock star").

[Cameron]

Ummm....Chris?

 

I don't particularly mind..it does open up my schedule to do stuff I guess..

 

But I havent really slept since I got back from LA.

 

I am going to come to SF to get farther clarification.

 

Todd did you want to do the seminar in SF and drive and let me eat your food?

 

It's cool stuff man..I promise. If you have a bad time I'll pay for your ticket.

 

namaste...or something.

 

lb

[VeeCee]

 

He thought I was saying he reminds me of Frodo. And I was backtracking..no..no..the big..guy...the guy who becomes the king.

 

 

Although it wouldn't be a bad thing to be Frodo either. Remember that Frodo is the only one who could carry the ring and take it back to Mordor to be destroyed. Very important stuff!

[Cameron]

He wasn't at all uncomfortable with being Frodo I just see him more a Strider character.

 

I mean if he wants to be Frodo he can definetly be Frodo.

 

I wonder if I will be able to get to sleep tonight.

[beancurdturtle]

I'm afraid to ask.

 

Transmission of what?

Transmission of the tao?