What the hell is the abyss anyways?

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's one of those concepts that you think you know, then you realize later that you don't at all.

 

I also have some pet peeves with he concept since I see time and time again people talking on end about having crossed it, but coming out still depressed and angry on the other side??

 

From what I understand, doesn't it bring you through your internal, and the external personal underworld (for lack of better wording, sorry) sort of thing, while you completely release and get past all concepts of who/what you were before you ventured through it? A gargantuan change for the positive... yet a quite dangerous journey since you could end up not making it and come out of it pretty messed up.

 

I'm curious about different Bums' takes on this .

 

(on a side note I have this theory that there is a mini abyss on your way just before Tiphereth; from a ceremonial magick standpoint). Mini meaning still just nearly as intense and life changing as the big cahuna, but just earlier on in the path.

[idiot_stimpy]

I could be well off as I'm just using my own experience, but I did prefer to use the void.

[idiot_stimpy]

Nowadays I just call it being, or nothing at all.

 

Dangerous because its seeing from a deeply different perspective. The seeing can hit you like a lightning bolt, with such shock and amazement.

[silent thunder]

Twice I have experienced what I would call the Void.

It was the utter lack of anything, light, objects, anything.

It was lightless and from my tiny ant-like perspective, it seemed infinite and while there, I felt hopelessly cut off from any form of life, concept (other than myself), or world/experience that I have ever experienced. It was complete isolation.

 

It was terrifying.

 

After a few minutes of terror, I popped back into my body and proceeded to throw up.

 

It's been explained to me that I was experiencing the void between dimensions.

(shrug) I don't know. But it sure qualifies for what I've heard as descriptors of the Abyss.

 

I had another experience with it later. That did not involve fear of any kind.

That time, I became aware within the Void but almost immediately, far off in the distance relative to my position, a small window like opening appeared and in moments I effortlessly moved to and through it, into one of the most intense waking out of body experiences I have ever had. A lengthy experience and vision of healing and rejuvenation that changed my paradigm instantly.

[Marblehead]

The abyss is that deep, dark place in our mind that most people never know exists. Some know it is there and try to see and understand it. But as Nietzsche warned, beware of staring into the abyss as it is staring back at you.

 

[Stosh]

Ill witness to the fact that I dont know about there being a deep dark place in my mind.

 

But yknow, Im curious , is there a quick way to get a peek ?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Stosh

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Hell of a question.

It's one of those concepts that you think you know, then you realize later that you don't at all.

I also have some pet peeves with he concept since I see time and time again people talking on end about having crossed it, but coming out still depressed and angry on the other side?? (Emphassis mine, ZYD)

I can understand that and sympathize.

I don't have much time to reply to this now, but from a traditional point of view, conceptually, this is a mess:

 

From what I understand, doesn't it bring you through your internal, and the external personal underworld (for lack of better wording, sorry) sort of thing, while you completely release and get past all concepts of who/what you were before you ventured through it? A gargantuan change for the positive... yet a quite dangerous journey since you could end up not making it and come out of it pretty messed up.

It's not your fault, it has more to do with changes in usage and things like that. Basically Hades as the underworld, is not Tartarus, the abyss.

 

I'm curious about different Bums' takes on this .

Well, you asked for it, and you got the short version, on a positive note:

 

(on a side note I have this theory that there is a mini abyss on your way just before Tiphereth; from a ceremonial magick standpoint). Mini meaning still just nearly as intense and life changing as the big cahuna, but just earlier on in the path.

 

I agree with you about this and this is the point at which purely personal problems should be integrated, after that one still needs a lot of work before one can approach the 'cosmic' abyss.

 

The people gave you your pet peeve, obviously did not do very well with this one.

[Stosh]

Oh , are you talking about the nihilistic abyss where there is no meaning and one gets all bummed out , horrified at the emptiness of the world , that there is no basis to themselves theyre just an agglomeration of zippo, that they have no soul ,, sort of abyss ?

Ahh , well if so, THAT I can explain.

[silent thunder]

Na, I was there a couple times as well... and that I believe is called the dark night of the soul.

[Stosh]

Na, I was there a couple times as well... and that I believe is called the dark night of the soul.

Ominous and poetic very nice

[GrandmasterP]

Ill witness to the fact that I dont know about there being a deep dark place in my mind. :)But yknow, Im curious , is there a quick way to get a peek ?

 

Get someone to take a full face photo of you.

Eyes open neutral expression.

Print it out.

Cover the left half vertically and check out what you see.

Then do the same with the right half.

One side or the other is your abyss face.

You'll know once you've seen it.

Hope that helps.

Edited July 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[BaguaKicksAss]

Ill witness to the fact that I dont know about there being a deep dark place in my mind.

 

But yknow, Im curious , is there a quick way to get a peek ?

 

Call up your favorite "dark" Deity of choice and ask them to know more about yourself and your inner workings.

 

Though, what is seen can't be unseen. Once you are on the other side of the experience though there is much growth.

 

PS be careful.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

As a general piece of information, the 'abyss' and 'crossing the abyss' have a very specific technical meaning in Modern Western Magic, particularly that derived from Aleister Crowley and his law of Thelema, or those teachings which are inspired by his work, but not specifically Thelemic. Here are too links which may help explain it better:

 

The Abyss Qabalistic Interpretaion

 

The Abyss Enochian Magic Interpretation

 

Both of which basically derive from Aleister Crowley.

 

Dark nights of the sould are more like the "mini abyss" which BaquaKickass mentions. She knows all this of course, she is just doing some rethinking. Always a good thing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

*grumble* *grumble* *grumble* Enochian magic has nothing to do with Crowley. It came about centuries before he was even conceived *grumble*. (though he did go and swap things around later and come up with his own very odd theories about parts of it and grab bits he liked and stuff it into his own system of symbolism) *grumble*

 

LOL

 

Edit to add: *grumble* no such thing as any "abyss" or Kronzon hanging out in the 10th aethyre in the original Enochian diaries *grumble*.

Edited July 28, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Stosh]

Get someone to take a full face photo of you.

Eyes open neutral expression.

Print it out.

Cover the left half vertically and check out what you see.

Then do the same with the right half.

One side or the other is your abyss face.

You'll know once you've seen it.

Hope that helps.

Ok , youre thinking along the lines of evil-me and nice-me, right?

One side of the face is the Billy Joel 'Stranger' side

Well we all have a face

That we hide away forever

And we take them out and show ourselves

When everyone has gone

Some are satin some are steel

Some are silk and some are leather

They're the faces of the stranger

But we love to try them on

[Stosh]

 

Call up your favorite "dark" Deity of choice and ask them to know more about yourself and your inner workings.

 

Though, what is seen can't be unseen. Once you are on the other side of the experience though there is much growth.

 

PS be careful.

Well I like the image of Kali , but Im not sure she qualifies as dark.

I guess I'd have to find one?

 

About being careful, Im not sure one really can be when one gets in ones own head,

But , I figure Im a match for me, musnt I be?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Stosh

[Stosh]

*grumble* *grumble* *grumble* Enochian magic has nothing to do with Crowley. It came about centuries before he was even conceived *grumble*. (though he did go and swap things around later and come up with his own very odd theories about parts of it and grab bits he liked and stuff it into his own system of symbolism) *grumble*

 

LOL

 

Edit to add: *grumble* no such thing as any "abyss" or Kronzon hanging out in the 10th aethyre in the original Enochian diaries *grumble*.

Pet peeves aside, should I read what Crowley has to say or is he a crappy source? IYO.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

*grumble* *grumble* *grumble* Enochian magic has nothing to do with Crowley. It came about centuries before he was even conceived *grumble*. (though he did go and swap things around later and come up with his own very odd theories about parts of it and grab bits he liked and stuff it into his own system of symbolism) *grumble*

 

LOL

 

Edit to add: *grumble* no such thing as any "abyss" or Kronzon hanging out in the 10th aethyre in the original Enochian diaries *grumble*.

 

Enochian magic has nothing to do with Crowley. It came about centuries before he was even conceived: Exactly the same could be said about Qabalah, but I know that are particularly sensitive about Enochian magic, as am I also, but I was rushed, as usual, and didn't observe the nicities like:

 

The Abyss, Crowley inspired Pseudo-Qabalistic Interpretaion

 

The Abyss, Crowley inspired Pseudo-Enochian Magic Interpretation

 

There, happy now?

 

We can leave it to Nungali to come post a vociferous defense of Crowley when he comes on.

[GrandmasterP]

*grumble* *grumble* *grumble* Enochian magic has nothing to do with Crowley. It came about centuries before he was even conceived *grumble*. (though he did go and swap things around later and come up with his own very odd theories about parts of it and grab bits he liked and stuff it into his own system of symbolism) *grumble*

 

LOL

 

Edit to add: *grumble* no such thing as any "abyss" or Kronzon hanging out in the 10th aethyre in the original Enochian diaries *grumble*.

Yep.

One name...

 

Choronzon.

 

Crowley was a great mountaineer but a notorious plagiarist ripping off Dee and Kelly.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

Well ,Im glad Kali will only need me to be sincere,

because I sincerely dont care to have gay sex in the desert sun.

 

Thats supposed to be a step toward divinity !?

 

Thanks, Ill bow out

Edited July 28, 2014 by Stosh

[BaguaKicksAss]

As a general piece of information, the 'abyss' and 'crossing the abyss' have a very specific technical meaning in Modern Western Magic, particularly that derived from Aleister Crowley and his law of Thelema, or those teachings which are inspired by his work, but not specifically Thelemic. Here are too links which may help explain it better:

 

The Abyss Qabalistic Interpretaion

 

The Abyss Enochian Magic Interpretation

 

Both of which basically derive from Aleister Crowley.

 

Dark nights of the sould are more like the "mini abyss" which BaquaKickass mentions. She knows all this of course, she is just doing some rethinking. Always a good thing.

 

Awesome articles, thank you .

 

is Existential Self at the last gasp...Beyond Choronzon we are no longer our Self. The "personality" on the brink of the Abyss will do anything, say anything and find any excuse to avoid taking this disintegrating step into "non-being.

 

Yes definitely, though mine doesn't even need a great abyss to do that . I guess we set things in order with it before something as big as abysses.

 

The second one, while I don't agree with their interpretation of the Enochian aethyres, the whole abyss bits are very very well put, yes, do not try to bring any of "you" on the journey.

 

Hmmm, I didn't realize folks got a second try, I thought it was more like you screw up the first go and you are going to spend years trying to undo the damage, then start over sort of thing.

 

Also from what I understand, staying too long in the abyss is a very bad thing, you get sort of stuck... again from trying to take a big of "you" across.

 

It is interesting how the abyss experience is just a giant version of what the entire path is all the way through from start to finish, just uhm bigger. (or so it seems)

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well I like the image of Kali , but Im not sure she qualifies as dark.

I guess I'd have to find one?

 

About being careful, Im not sure one really can be when one gets in ones own head,

But , I figure Im a match for me, musnt I be?

 

Oh Kali is VERY good for this sort of thing (even though only "dark" to westerners). From what I have found she doesn't feel we need all these frivolous illusions, attachments and such. She is always awesome at showing us (in a very big way), what we need to get rid of/see/work past.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well ,Im glad Kali will only need me to be sincere,

because I sincerely dont care to have gay sex in the desert sun.

 

Thats supposed to be a step toward divinity !?

 

Thanks, Ill bow out

 

In Crowley's case, he felt so, yes. But it is an example. For myself I personally made myself go to a Christian church and attend a service. If you can see how these 2 things, his method and mine are similar you have the picture.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yep.

One name...

 

Choronzon.

 

Crowley was a great mountaineer but a notorious plagiarist ripping off Dee and Kelly.

 

 

 

He didn't quite plagiarize Dee and Kelly. (unless you just count borrowing one name and spelling it differently) Mathers went to the British museum and read through the Enochian manuscripts. It was far more difficult to get manuscripts back then, so he unfortunately only got about 1/10th of the system. He likely also read a True and Faithful Revelation. Then.... he proceeded to change everything around *grumble* so it fit his idea of colours, directions, everything based on elements and etc. Then Crowley came into the picture, and really liked the whole Aethyre idea and ran with it. What he came up with was pretty awesome, lets travel these things! However I feel that his visions and experiences were biased by his own previous ideas of how the universe works and their own system.

 

I forgot to warn TTBs, don't get me started on Enochian magic and Crowley/Mathers lol.

[Marblehead]

 

But yknow, Im curious , is there a quick way to get a peek ?

I'll suggest that we could inspect thoroughly why we experience the emotions we experience, especially the negative ones, after certain encounters. It's not about the emotion but rather the "why?" of the emotion. Total honesty is required.