3 reasons why enlightenment sucks

[GrandmasterP]

one can go to the astral and fly until the cows come home

 

Yep, there; one can.

Not here though, in 'real' life.

We'd have noticed.

[3bob]

Yep, there; one can. Not here though, in 'real' life. We'd have noticed.

 

...and of course the "real" is highly debatable.

[Marblehead]

i wasn't very clear.

letting go, and accepting what is happening and the lack of control are synonymous. If a person doesn't accept what is happening, then they are fighting their mind...which is the opposite of overcoming the mind and gaining control of such abilities.

I was pretty sure you didn't mean it the way I read it and this is why I commented to it.

 

However, we lose control only when we stop trying to control. Then too, we must accept the reality of what is happening. If something is beyond our control then it would be wasted effort to try to control it.

 

Good concept you are talking about here - mind and control. Of course, we must control our own mind before we have a chance to control anything external to us.

[Marblehead]

i would disagree with this. the universe works for the betterment of those who work with the universe.

Yeah, many would disagree with me on this one. I won't argue this one though. We each need our own security in some form.

[Marblehead]

I would also join with that disagreement in the sense that "the sage is always good at saving men, and therefore nobody is abandoned, Always good at saving things and therefore nothing is wasted", T.T.C. 27, John Wu translation.

 

(hence such a Sage is one with the Great Tao)

But then we look at the state of the world today and one must assume that someone is not doing a very good job or that the concept is flawed.

[Marblehead]

...and of course the "real" is highly debatable.

True because it depends on how many mushrooms one eats.

[GrandmasterP]

 

...and of course the "real" is highly debatable.

It is debatable and you're right.

In that context though I was meaning 'here' where people can't physically fly around without artificial assistance of some sort.

I used to kite surf, it's brilliant... and to be able to do that without a kite... If only one could....

Epic!

 

Edited July 31, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[3bob]

But then we look at the state of the world today and one must assume that someone is not doing a very good job or that the concept is flawed.

 

that is a tough one, also even the sage will not force relative goodness for to do so would be relative evil,

[Marblehead]

that is a tough one, also even the sage will not force relative goodness for to do so would be relative evil,

Yep. That's the catch 22, isn't it?

 

Therein lies the difficulty of being an Anarchist as well. Forcing another to do something (even being nice or doing the right thing) would be hypocracy against anarchy.

[3bob]

MH,

I'd say *anarchy is human based attempt or method that does not recognize the "Great Tao" which has "Grand Virtue" as the "way" along with an "unfailing sincerity" (per T.T.C. 21) which does not error in the manner you are speaking of.

 

* Definitions of anarchy:

a : absence of government

b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority

c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

 

2

a : absence or denial of any authority or established order

b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>

Edited August 1, 2014 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

MH,

I'd say *anarchy is human based attempt or method that does not recognize the "Great Tao" which has "Grand Virtue" as the "way" along with an "unfailing sincerity" which does not error in the manner you are speaking of.

 

c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

Let's just stay with definition c.

 

That is my usage of the word.

 

Now granted, both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu admitted to the need for government. That is because not everyone allows the other the freedom they demand for themselves.

 

Grand Tao and Grand Virtue are terms I do not use. The word "Grand" is redundant.

 

"unfailing sincerity" I will translate to "Tzujan". But this only takes us back to the problem.

 

But I will admit, yes, anarchy is a human based concept. "Do what thou wilt but harm none." "Live and let live."

 

But too, anarchy, in my vision, is not the "absence of order" but rather voluntary order.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Three down sides to enlightenment:

You can't vacuum because you have no attachments.

You don't like peanut butter anymore because everything tastes the same.

You don't watch movies anymore because you know how they all end.

 

[MooNiNite]

But then we look at the state of the world today and one must assume that someone is not doing a very good job or that the concept is flawed.

 

The universe is fair, it only helps those who work with the universe

[Stosh]

Just curious but what sources have you heard of this?

 

Occurrence of this are rare imo

At least one Tao bum attested to it , Im sure youve read plenty of levitation things , at least one Chuangtze passage has been read that way ,, and in one of the interview .pdf's in our forum-thread , I just in passing read that in converting shen to Tao? the constraint to physical laws is removed. ( but its just not a thing I sincerely entertain as possible really - so I didnt pay much attention , I just think it would be really nifty)

Edited August 1, 2014 by Stosh

[MooNiNite]

At least one Tao bum attested to it , Im sure youve read plenty of levitation things , at least one Chuangtze passage has been read that way ,, and in one of the interview .pdf's in our forum-thread , I just in passing read that in converting shen to Tao? the constraint to physical laws is removed. ( but its just not a thing I sincerely entertain as possible really - so I didnt pay much attention , I just think it would be really nifty)

 

oh i think it is very real If levitation is possible, flight is possible. I'v read about a tibetan master doing it. and i believe it. The tibetans would train day and night for decades, because they strongly believed in the fragile human life time. Anyways i dont think converting shen to tao, initially atleast, is awesome enough to do that. plenty of masters do this for years.

[3bob]

Lots of far out stuff is possible but is not of any spiritual consequence (or of negative consequence) if sought after or trained for as mind candy or as another form or variation of power for egotistic ends.

 

No one really gets or owns for themselves the spiritual truth and its power that is beyond mind manipulation, for if one becomes purified enough (with help) then such truth and power will get them.

[GrandmasterP]

The universe is fair, it only helps those who work with the universe

 

The universe is sublimely indifferent.

[MooNiNite]

The universe is sublimely indifferent.

 

ah its much more interesting than that!

[GrandmasterP]

You are interested.

The universe, on the other hand......

isn't.

 

Edited August 1, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[3bob]

The universe is sublimely indifferent.

 

Indifferent sounds like apathy and to imply that the universe is apathetic is akin to being deaf, dumb and blind to the song and beauty that she is. (which is both obvious and not so obvious in countless ways)

 

I'd go with impartial in the sense of a dharmic and karmic mother that acts fairly with all her children.

[GrandmasterP]

'He had opened his heart to the sublime indifference of the universe.'

 

( Albert Camus in L'Etranger)

 

Good book.

Very Taoist.

Enjoy......

 

http://www.macobo.com/essays/epdf/CAMUS,%20Albert%20-%20The%20Stranger.pdf

 

 

Mods... It's out of copyright.

Edited August 1, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

The Universe will not step in to save the life of even a mosquito.

[GrandmasterP]

" I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe."

 

In that translation ( page 76).

Edited August 1, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[3bob]

That sounds like quasi-intellectual poppycock...

 

The following sounds like Taoism:

T.T.C. 52.
"ALL-under-Heaven have a common Beginning.
This Beginning is the Mother of the world.
Having known the Mother,
We may proceed to know her children.
Having known the children,
We should go back and hold on to the Mother.
In so doing, you will incur no risk
Even though your body be annihilated..."

[GrandmasterP]

Camus is 'quasi- intellectual'?