Question on when to breathe in this practice (video)

[Daeluin]

_{Whats 'fine chi' versus ,,,coarse chi?}

 

The technique of not hearing the breath with the ears leads to finer chi. It comes with relaxing, slowing down. Like the wind on a calm lake at sunset is warm and gentle, but the wind in a storm is choppy and rough. Fine chi is smooth as silk and refined. It's similar to breathing in your nose instead of your mouth, which is considered coarse and even vulgar. There are probably better traditional Chinese descriptions for this, I'm just sharing from experience.

 

The main lesson I'm receiving from this thread is that what some may consider "wrong" might be "right" for another purpose. A mistake in one practice might be the key to another practice. It depends on what you're doing. Also, it's probably best not to mix and match different ways. Once you have some momentum on one, stick with it and see where it leads. If you change the way you're developing your energy, sampling of different ways, it is probably harder to make consistent progress.

[Daeluin]

 

The idea is to feel the breath/chi deep down in the lower dan tian which is more important than hearing it. It is very correct to "focus on breathing into the lower dan tien" the whole time. In Chinese term: 意守丹田(focus on the dan tian).

 

Sometimes focusing on breathing to my heels helps with breathing to my LDT.

[dawei]

The technique of not hearing the breath with the ears leads to finer chi. It comes with relaxing, slowing down.

 

And I think the next step to finer breath is when you no longer become aware of breath[ing].

[ChiDragon]

_{Whats 'fine chi' versus ,,,coarse chi?}

 

If Chi translated as energy, then, who can distinguish the difference......???

 

If Chi was translated as air/breath, then there is a big difference. Before the air gets into the body, it contains dust and pathogens may be considered as "coarse chi". After the air enters the nostrils, the dust will be filtered through the filter system in the nose. In addition, before the oxygenated blood was delivered to the body cells, the pathogens were engulfed by the macrophages in the lung. Hence, the air may be considered as "fine chi."

[Stosh]

 

If Chi translated as energy, then, who can distinguish the difference......???

 

If Chi was translated as air/breath, then there is a big difference. Before the air gets into the body, it contains dust and pathogens may be considered as "coarse chi". After the air enters the nostrils, the dust will be filtered through the filter system in the nose. In addition, before the oxygenated blood was delivered to the body cells, the pathogens were engulfed by the macrophages in the lung. Hence, the air may be considered as "fine chi."

I was reading- my sources book further, and , it looks like he is describing the physical qualities of the breathing process rather than describing the energy itself, with " fine chi" being slowly delicately and deeply derived. ( similarly to- as Dae and Dawei seem to describe it) _ but the book seems to be compilation and one may have to tease out the thoughts of particular sources.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Stosh

[dawei]

it looks like he is describing the physical qualities of the breathing process rather than describing the energy itself, with " fine chi" being slowly delicately and deeply derived. ( similarly to- as Dae and Dawei seem to describe it) _ but the book seems to be compilation and one may have to tease out the thoughts of particular sources.

 

Those who truly work with energy, there is no separating the breath and Qi at times... but...

 

if one is breathing, there is Qi; if one is not breathing there is still Qi.

[Daeluin]

I find it helpful to mediate after I train, after I've got stuck things moving and more balanced. Then it's just a matter of practice. Over time experiencing what the qi feels like when the breath is hard and heavy, one can distinguish the difference between what the qi feels like when the breath is light and soft. Play with it and you'll learn by doing, not by thinking.

[Stosh]

Those who truly work with energy, there is no separating the breath and Qi at times... but...

 

if one is breathing, there is Qi; if one is not breathing there is still Qi.

Well, youd have to classify me as one who doesnt truly work with 'energy conceptry'

maybe someday , with patience

But right now I need to get things in terms Im comfortable with...

Its already a big stretch already for me to ..encompass

[dawei]

Play with it and you'll learn by doing, not by thinking.

 

And not by wearing a breathing mask

[Stosh]

I find it helpful to mediate after I train, after I've got stuck things moving and more balanced. Then it's just a matter of practice. Over time experiencing what the qi feels like when the breath is hard and heavy, one can distinguish the difference between what the qi feels like when the breath is light and soft. Play with it and you'll learn by doing, not by thinking.

You dont feel the training IS a meditation ?

[Stosh]

And not by wearing a breathing mask

Leave me my filters and Ill be able to get farther.

[dawei]

Well, youd have to classify me as one who doesnt truly work with 'energy conceptry'

maybe someday , with patience

But right now I need to get things in terms Im comfortable with...

Its already a big stretch already for me to ..encompass

 

I think as Deluin suggests... one can 'feel' this not think this.

 

But I know that those who don't interact with energy at this level may try to get their head around it.. but it can hard to even explain but easy to feel.

 

Even in energy exchange, you would be able to feel it now if the other person knows how to do it.

 

There are so many ways to describe the feeling of Qi... coarse and fine is simply one of dozens and dozens.

[dawei]

You dont feel the training IS a meditation ?

 

From my perspective it is yes and no....

 

As another suggesting in another thread... you can be enlightened from peeling fruit... peeling fruit can be a meditation...

 

So training can be a meditation; meditation can be a training... but insert anything in the mix.

 

These are but tools along a path on some level and the tools vary so much, as does the path.

 

Anyone who says there is one way to do this or that is caught up in the tool and/or path.

[Daeluin]

You dont feel the training IS a meditation ?

 

Many different ways to meditate! What I meant to convey is that I find it interesting to sit in stillness after doing moving energy work. Even sitting after holding a standing meditation posture will reveal things. It's fun to play with meditating after holding different postures.

 

But largely I find when I get my energy flowing it isn't stagnant when I meditate and tends to also be more refined... depends on what I'm doing.

[dawei]

Many different ways to meditate! What I meant to convey is that I find it interesting to sit in stillness after doing moving energy work. Even sitting after holding a standing meditation posture will reveal things. It's fun to play with meditating after holding different postures.

 

But largely I find when I get my energy flowing it isn't stagnant when I meditate and tends to also be more refined... depends on what I'm doing.

 

There was a time when after 2 hours of Qigong I would do laying down meditation and the energy was so energized it would race around and I felt like a light bulb. In such a case it was not a feeling of refined but turbo-charged.

[ChiDragon]

Those who truly work with energy, there is no separating the breath and Qi at times... but...

 

if one is breathing, there is Qi; if one is not breathing there is still Qi.

 

Very contradictory.

 

If one does breathe, then, there is no oxygen. How can there be Qi as energy......???

Can somebody hold the breath and see how much Qi was there.....???

Edited August 1, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

You dont feel the training IS a meditation ?

 

I should also clarify that not all meditation is energy work.

[dawei]

Very contradictory.

 

If one does breathe, then, there is no oxygen. How can there be Qi as energy......???

Can somebody hold the breath and see how much Qi was there.....???

 

That's because you don't work enough directly with energy in the manner in which I am speaking.

 

There is Qi everywhere inside and outside of us.

 

The topic is the video example of breathing/non-breathing. Qi is present in both cases.

[ChiDragon]

Metabolic formula for Cell Respiration:
Glucose + O2 = H2O + CO2 + heat + energy.

This formula says energy is an oxygen dependent from breathing. Does anybody believe in this metabolic formula...???

[Daeluin]

Once the Ming has been replenished and the Te is intact, the breathing can slow the point of not exchanging much inside and outside. This lets people meditate while sitting at the bottom of lakes and such. This is the transition from doing to non-doing, and ultimately neither is the final goal.

[Daeluin]

Also it's not about holding the breath, IMO. It's about following/guiding the energy work to a place where things slow down and you naturally don't need to breathe as fast or as much. Requires thoughts not being in the way of energy moving through the mind.