Eating meat and the whole jazz around it. Was Sacrificing an act of love?

[Tibetan_Ice]

I guess you've never heard plants scream...

[eye_of_the_storm]

ah, that one again... plants scream, so I kill cows...or something?

Plants scream so I participate in the enslavement of billions? I could cause significantly less harm but I won't.

As before 50% ish of the food I eat is fruits (which are given by plants)

Working toward causing as less harm as possible. Seems natural and enjoyable.

[silent thunder]

You should look this guy up and study with him.

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/04/a-man-has-not-eaten-or-drank-any-liquids-for-70-years-science-examines-him/

 

I wonder what he gets mad about

[eye_of_the_storm]

You should look this guy up and study with him.

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/04/a-man-has-not-eaten-or-drank-any-liquids-for-70-years-science-examines-him/

 

I wonder what he gets mad about

 

Server not found

 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Tibetan_Ice]

ah, that one again... plants scream, so I kill cows...or something?

 

Plants scream so I participate in the enslavement of billions? I could cause significantly less harm but I won't.

 

As before 50% ish of the food I eat is fruits (which are given by plants)

 

Working toward causing as less harm as possible. Seems natural and enjoyable.

 

 

 

 

 

So you eat their babies and that's ok?

[eye_of_the_storm]

So you eat their babies and that's ok?

 

I have had more reasonable discussions with toddlers.

 

Here is an example of such.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJNntUXyWvw

[silent thunder]

 

Server not found

 

What is your point in "plants scream", what outcome would you like to see?

 

one of these should work... compelling to me

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/holy-man-who-never-eats-baffles-scientists-in-india

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1274779/The-man-says-eaten-drunk-70-years-Why-eminent-doctors-taking-seriously.html

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/holy-man-who-never-eats-baffles-scientists-in-india

[eye_of_the_storm]

and another

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Server not found

 

What is your point in "plants scream", what outcome would you like to see?

If not eating meat was such a big deal then Buddha wouldn't have eaten the rotten pork dish that killed him.

 

The point is this. Live your life according to the ethics and morals that resonate with you, because it is those ethics and morals which will set your mind free or enslave you. When you meditate or die, your mind will bring back to you what imprinted on your subconscious and then you will manifest yourself your punishment or reward.

 

Some Buddhists wrote that killing insects results in going to one of the hell realms when you die so nearly everyone on earth will go to hell. I must have killed millions of insects while driving my car. Do I believe I will go to hell when I die? Too late, this is hell. Why do you think I'm trying to get enlightened?

[eye_of_the_storm]

one of these should work... compelling to me

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/holy-man-who-never-eats-baffles-scientists-in-india

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1274779/The-man-says-eaten-drunk-70-years-Why-eminent-doctors-taking-seriously.html

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/holy-man-who-never-eats-baffles-scientists-in-india

 

Yes, very interesting stuff, I think this is somewhat the approach toward enlightenment (becoming light / immorality)

 

Being a path from the most dense realities (+food) to the most refined.

 

Ancient Taoist texts say that ancient man "imbibed dew" and “fed on primordial breath + drank harmony”

 

I am not saying that plants do not feel or have no consciousness either, I think everything is consciousness ultimately.

 

I personally dislike having to cut trees down / remove plants (I had to do that when I was in landscape , I also got to plant trees/ gardens too)

 

... it is difficult to live in this world though and not cause harm.

 

I hope to one day live from dew and primordial breath ... one step at a time...

 

~~~

 

Sorry I got you and Tibetan Ice mixed up

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

If not eating meat was such a big deal then Buddha wouldn't have eaten the rotten pork dish that killed him.

 

The point is this. Live your life according to the ethics and morals that resonate with you, because it is those ethics and morals which will set your mind free or enslave you. When you meditate or die, your mind will bring back to you what imprinted on your subconscious and then you will manifest yourself your punishment or reward.

 

Some Buddhists wrote that killing insects results in going to one of the hell realms when you die so nearly everyone on earth will go to hell. I must have killed millions of insects while driving my car. Do I believe I will go to hell when I die? Too late, this is hell. Why do you think I'm trying to get enlightened?

 

Seems like a big mistake for a Buddha, maybe that is why he paid with his life?

 

I wouldn't disagree that this is hell for many.

 

Enlightenment is seen as a path to freedom.

 

Part of my reasoning is, how can we expect freedom for ourselves if we are unwilling to give it to others.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

I believe our original nature is light and that light is consciousness, as we consume darkness though that light is hidden from us

Yes, very interesting stuff, I think this is somewhat the approach toward enlightenment (becoming light / immorality)

Being a path from the most dense realities (+food) to the most refined.

Ancient Taoist texts say that ancient man "imbibed dew" and “fed on primordial breath + drank harmony”

[silent thunder]

I believe our original nature is light and that light is consciousness, as we consume darkness though that light is hidden from us

 

Right on...

 

Lately I'm sensing that darkness is just light I'm unable to perceive... yet.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Right on...

 

Lately I'm sensing that darkness is just light I'm unable to perceive... yet.

 

I guess darkness is light which doesn't understand that it is light.

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Tibetan_Ice]

Do you know that part of the path of togal in Dzogchen says that you can live for years without food?

 

From Dzogchen:

The bodily signs are that your body vividly appears as mudras of the five buddha-classes, like the appearance of a reflection in a space of limpidity and luminosity, like a mirror-image. The body appears as a variety of reflections, as light as cotton, with no sense of materiality. As an indication that bodily parasites have been released into the clear light, it becomes free of lice and nits. White hair turns dark, bright white new teeth grow in, and your muscles become youthfully strong, and wrinkles clear away. The perceptions of others shift simply by laying eyes on you, and they experience faith and reverence. With the blazing forth of the warmth of primordial wisdom, all thoughts of clothing are discarded, there is no longer any sense of being cold, and you experience continual blissful warmth. Casting off all thoughts of food, you can live for months and years on the food of samadhi, the power of bliss and emptiness. In each pore of your body are displayed unimaginable kinds of abodes of sentient beings as well as buddha-fields. That indicates the achievement of mastery of miraculous emanations. With your mastery of incarnation and emanation, you manifest an inconceivable number of emanations in an unimaginable range of abodes of sentient beings, and in a single instant you guide an inconceivable number of sentient beings. You manifest an inconceivable number of emanations in an unimaginable number of buddha-fieds, where you make myriads of offerings, receive empowerments, and open up an inconceivable number of avenues of samadhi. Such transformations are displayed in your own and others' fields of experience, and you send forth and disclose unimaginable emanations and miraculous displays. Due to your pristine perception, appearances arise as displays of buddha-fields, and due to the pristine purity of the mind-itself, the universe arises as a display of divine embodiments. Due to the pristine purity of your voice, sounds arise as wheels of Dharma. Pure appearances pervasively arise as displays of those three pristine purities, without even a speck of impure appearances.

 

www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php?title=Dzogchen:_Thodgal_(Leap-Over)

 

 

 

(Sorry can't seem to embed that link with the ipad.. The editor can't handle paths with round brackets in it very well.)

Edited August 3, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[eye_of_the_storm]

Ah Thanks Tibetan_Ice, wonderful and inspiring read!

 

Do you know that part of the path of togal in Dzogchen says that you can live for years without food?

From Dzogchen:
www.chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en/index.php?title=Dzogchen:_Thodgal_(Leap-Over)




(Sorry can't seem to embed that link with the ipad.. The editor can't handle paths with round brackets in it very well.)

[Anoesjka]

 

"I don't think we should force our views upon someone else"

 

What about forcing a knife into the belly of an animal, does that come under "force our views"

 

Or is there some double standard?

 

You would like your choices respected? What about the choices of animals?

 

What gives you the right to take their life?

 

You believe yourself to be more intelligent? more powerful?

 

Many seem to argue that. Following that thought process anyone smarter or stronger than themselves could capture them, strip them of their flesh and find it acceptable. If I was to speak out in favor of your life, welling being/ happiness, some would call that dogmatic (ahaha, sigh)

 

Uhm, I don't know if you realize it, but I have been a vegetarian for nearly thirty years and continue to be one.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Anoesjka

[Anoesjka]

I think I'll withdraw from this discussion. Too heated for me (and I was just trying to mediate).

[eye_of_the_storm]

I appreciate your attempts but I will not be mediated! haha

My response was to all

the "I don't think we should force our views upon someone else" is a typical response I wanted to address

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

Thing is we'll all carry on eating what we enjoy eating.

Nobody will ever be argued into a diet by someone else.

It's up to the individual to choose what and how they eat.

Complete waste of time trying to convert anybody away from whatever it is that they enjoy eating for their dinner.

Diet defines nobody.

Anyone relying on their dietary choice for some sort of merit is building on sand.

The most boring people in the world are converts to vegetarianism.

I gave up long ago describing myself as a veggie when meeting new people.

Do that and the convert veggies home in on one with endless tales of how wonderful 'they' are by dint of 'giving up' meat eating.

How weird is that?

I never started eating meat so don't miss what I never had but if I was raised eating meat I'd not give it up anymore than I'd 'give up' eating cauliflower now.

You can generally see the burger craving in back of those 'convert veggie's' eyes as they attempt to convince everyone else whilst remaining partially unconvinced themselves that ' giving up' meat has somehow made them a better person.

It hasn't... You've turned into a feckin' bore.

That said Mrs GMP is a great sharer of veggie recipes and I pass those on to interested students with the advice to...

" Eat less meat and the cultivation- flatulence will diminish."

Carnivore farts stink like death - those suckers could make a pig gag.

Edited August 3, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[silent thunder]

It feels a lot like trying to convert someone to another religion.

 

Foaming at the mouth and spewing hateful words and vitriol will do little aside from make your blood pressure rise and make people want to argue their side all the more intensely...

 

But then, sometimes we need to blow off steam.

 

In the end, there's just not one way to think about any subject. Never will be.

[woodcarver]

How can you tell if someone is a vegetarian?

Don't worry, they'll tell you.

 

Love that joke.

 

In all seriousness I can't think of anything else to add to the discussion.

[GrandmasterP]

Q: How many carnivores does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. They prefer to stay in the dark!

 

Q: How many vegetarians does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. Every vegetarian knows that they can't change anything.

Edited August 3, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[thelerner]

Lets see..

 

Q> Why did the carnivore cross the road?

A> He was chasing the chicken.

 

Q> Why didn't the vegetarian cross the road?

A> He was chicken.

 

Q> What do vegetarians call there martial art?

A>TO-Fu

 

A prostitute, a vegetarian and a carnivore try to get into a fancy night club. The bouncer stops the prostitute ..

I'll have to finish this one later..

[GrandmasterP]

If that's the one with the punchline ending.....

 

"But I eat meat for a living honey."

 

Then please don't.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by GrandmasterP