Eating meat and the whole jazz around it. Was Sacrificing an act of love?

[silent thunder]

vegetarian: native american term for bad hunter

[GrandmasterP]

vegetarian: native american term for bad hunter

 

A-maize-ing.

 

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yes, converting people is a waste of time that is well understood.

What appears to be a personal conversation / dialogue is actually a public forum in which this thread in particular has had 1067 views (so far).

As per my last post "My response was to all".

It may or may not change one persons perspective.

Of the thousands in the city of which I was one in a brief moment I was handed information which opened my eyes instantly and from that point on my life changed for the better.

I never spoke to those people, or ever had the chance to tell them how much of an impact they had on my life. But they did and I am grateful for that.



For many to all (who make such a change) it is already largely part of them, it just needs to be revealed.

For others there is near zero hope, some truly have no empathic capacity.

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[GrandmasterP]

Is that where you learnt to post clips of someone vomiting for everyone to look at?

[thelerner]

The good thing is, imo, that vegetarianism is common and acceptable these days. 30 years ago, going to a restaurant for a veggie meant salad, and often a strange look. Now nearly every place has a variety of meatless selections. I think there's progress.

 

I hope society is moving away from the Western SAD diet of meat at every meal.

[GrandmasterP]

I read somewhere that this last recession has seen more people going veggie for some meals to save money.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

Tesco has certainly upped its veggie section from what it was five years or so ago.

Their veggie Mediterranean Sausages are really good ( in the freezer cabinets).

Edited August 4, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[C T]

I read somewhere that this last recession has seen more people going veggie for some meals to save money.

Every cloud has a silver lining.

Tesco has certainly upped its veggie section from what it was five years or so ago.

Their veggie Mediterranean Sausages are really good ( in the freezer cabinets).

Restauranteurs love vegetarians and vegans.

 

They have upped the prices of vegetarian mains to almost equal that of non-veg ones.

 

Some restaurants now are cheeky enough to charge between 16 - 18euro for a plate of tagliatelle, garlic, porcini and cream sauce, with a drizzle of truffle oil if lucky. Chopped parsley withheld. For a euro extra, coeliacs can opt for wheat-free pasta. And the cost? 4euro, tops. Thats like 300 percent profit!!

 

No wonder the non-meat eaters are so loved.

 

On a similar note, if one were to visit a dedicated vegetarian restaurant that has a couple of 'good food' awards stuck to the wall at the entrance, one can expect to pay up to 28euro for a main course.

 

Vegetarian offerings are the new buzz now for ott profit-making in the restaurant business.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Restauranteurs love vegetarians and vegans.

 

They have upped the prices of vegetarian mains to almost equal that of non-veg ones.

 

Some restaurants now are cheeky enough to charge between 16 - 18euro for a plate of tagliatelle, garlic, porcini and cream sauce, with a drizzle of truffle oil if lucky. Chopped parsley withheld. For a euro extra, coeliacs can opt for wheat-free pasta. And the cost? 4euro, tops. Thats like 300 percent profit!!

 

No wonder the non-meat eaters are so loved.

 

On a similar note, if one were to visit a dedicated vegetarian restaurant that has a couple of 'good food' awards stuck to the wall at the entrance, one can expect to pay up to 28euro for a main course.

 

Vegetarian offerings are the new buzz now for ott profit-making in the restaurant business.

 

C T, I don't quite remember where you live... but I think you need to move!

 

lolololol

 

That's highway robbery there, is half that price around here....

Edited August 5, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[liminal_luke]

When I told my mother-in-law that I'd like to make a chicken dish today for my first cooking lesson, I didn't think she'd go right out into the backyard and kill a bird on the spot. We went from chasing it down to marinating in marjoram and thyme in thirty minutes flat. (She's a speedy feather plucker.) Watching the dripping blood, I got how a person could fall into a vegetarian panic; there's something horrific about the whole experience ya just don't get picking a carrot.

 

I didn't like it but I'm glad it happened. Life is glorious but not always pretty and I think it's important not to shy away even from the gory parts.

 

Liminal

[idiot_stimpy]

I didn't like it but I'm glad it happened. Life is glorious but not always pretty and I think it's important not to shy away even from the gory parts.

 

Liminal

 

Unless you're the one being eaten.....

 

 

Spiritual practices opened me up to seeing things from other beings perspectives. I am thankful that the compassion within me has steered me generally away from meat. I am not completely meat free though.

[C T]

C T, I don't quite remember where you live... but I think you need to move!

 

lolololol

 

That's highway robbery there, is half that price around here....

Yeah, its called 'daylight robbery' around these parts.

 

The point is, for the lesser income folks who want to turn to a vege diet, they are now paying more for vege produce due to the richer folks thinking its way cool to be vegetarians, hence, prices of fruits and veg that used to be low before have now gone higher (and rising as we speak) simply because of the 'nouveau awareness' that a diet overly stuffed with meat is 'bad for health'. Plus, im talking supermarket veg shelves, NOT organics -- dont even think 'organics' unless your weekly income is approx twice the average wage.

 

Another point to note: The mushrooming of health/supplement food stores!!! Again, mad prices for vitamins and healthy oils!

 

 

You know what? I smell a scam.

[C T]

Btw, im in Ireland, south. One of the most ridiculously expensive countries in Europe. Why ridiculous? Cos the trends here have turned into joke -- wages are driven down repeatedly, and prices of everything is rising repeatedly. I know things are not exactly rosy over in the US, but a lot of consumer goods there actually cost half the price or more compared to stuff here.

 

Pair of Levis? 100 euro. Thats 134 USd. How much for a pair of Levis in the States? 30 dollars? 40?

[Jetsun]

I was a vegetarian for many years when I was younger and I regret it to a certain extent, I was lacking in Iron and some b vitamins during the vital stage in the growth of my nervous system. You have to eat a lot of green vegetables to get enough of those vits and as a child/teenager that isn't going to happen easily and vitamin supplements are garbage, there is research coming out that supplements can even cause damage long term and certainly aren't an adequate replacement for dietary sources.

 

I am trying to become more veggie again now I'm an adult though, not that I buy into all the veggie propaganda who try to make out that an animals life is on the same level as a human, is a mosquito or a bugs life on the same level and value as a humans? Of course not, there is a gradation in nature, yet I personally wouldn't like to kill most things by hand myself just for lunch so it is a bit hypocritical to eat that which I wouldn't personally kill.

[Marblehead]

I am trying to become more veggie again now I'm an adult though, not that I buy into all the veggie propaganda who try to make out that an animals life is on the same level as a human, is a mosquito or a bugs life on the same level and value as a humans? Of course not, there is a gradation in nature, yet I personally wouldn't like to kill most things by hand myself just for lunch so it is a bit hypocritical to eat that which I wouldn't personally kill.

But you still need the meat protein for your brain. The brain is a protein eater-upper. No protein, no good brain activity.

[Jetsun]

But you still need the meat protein for your brain. The brain is a protein eater-upper. No protein, no good brain activity.

 

I don't think I would give up fish, you need the fish oils for the brain also, but you do have to be careful not to eat it every day or you might get mercury poisoning.

[Satya]

and vitamin supplements are garbage, there is research coming out that supplements can even cause damage long term and certainly aren't an adequate replacement for dietary sources.

I remember seeing the same article, I think there was only one, but it was quite quickly debunked (just to clarify): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-r-gaby-md/vitamins-study_b_4481739.html , so,

vitamin supplements are garbage,

this isn't true. Vitamins and minerals are vitamins and minerals.

But you still need the meat protein for your brain. The brain is a protein eater-upper. No protein, no good brain activity.

 

I don't think I would give up fish, you need the fish oils for the brain also, but you do have to be careful not to eat it every day or you might get mercury poisoning.

Actually, the brain is predominantly fat: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20329590 . Mainly DHA. I recommend that people take a DHA and EPA supplement. You can get vegetarian supplements for this. This is a good one: http://opti3omega.com . Though, you can get omega 3 from hemp, flax and chia seeds. Flax oil is a good one. It contains a lot of ALA (an omega 3, the parent omega 3) which the body converts to EPA and DHA (other omega 3s), though, primarily EPA. EPA is one of the main fatty acids you get from fish oils (and associated with mental health), but, studies have shown that those who have no actual EPA intake but eat flax or some vegetarian ALA source, that their EPA levels were pretty much exactly the same as those who took EPA directly, suggesting that the body ups its conversion for those who just have ALA.

 

So, you don't need to eat any animal/fish/sentient creature at all.

 

Which is why it's my first point (A: It's not necessary to eat meat.) here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/35770-eating-meat-and-the-whole-jazz-around-it-was-sacrificing-an-act-of-love/page-2

 

The anti vegetarians/vegans out there often spout the "but you don't get everything you need", which, is kind of ironic, given the eating habits of meat lovers, which, in my experience (personal and seeing others eat throughout my life) consists of primarily meat and carbs (you know who I'm talking about, you'll all know one ; it's the BBQ diet ; I had a housemate once and I couldn't understand how he didn't just fall over and die, though, he was incredibly sedentary, and didn't do much with his mind or body). This diet is much more dangerous from lacking vitamins and minerals than one that doesn't involve meat or animal products. In fact, when you cut animals out, then it sort of forces you to eat a more varied diet. I'll admit, animals/fish taste good, that's not why I stopped eating them, it was for ethical and pragmatic reasons, BUT, they taste SO good with SO little extra that someone can have ZERO cooking skills and just fry a burger/sausage/whatever and just put it in a bun, add some butter and, voila, you've got a tasty snack. This means that people will often rely (I know I did) on meat as a simple quick tasty food, BUT, this means that you end up not adding those nutritious herbs and spices, vegetables, etc, that are so good for you, and make vegetarian/vegan food so tasty. So, a predominantly meat based diet is worse for you than a predominantly fruit and veg based diet .

Edited August 5, 2014 by Satya

[Satya]

Satya,

How do you know that the cow didn't choose to become a cow in the bardo? How do you know that the cow has to learn the lesson of non attachment to the physical self? How do you know that not having a choice is not all part of the plan? How do you know?

 

I don't know any of these things. I'm not saying I do. However, the pragmatic points that I am making don't necessitate me to know these things.

 

Also, you COULD use this as a get out clause of ANY act that inflicts suffering.

 

Discussion in the 1800s/1920s/1940s

Person A: Let's stop beating slaves/slavery in general shall we?

Person A: Let's stop treating women like second class citizens shall we?

Person A: Let's stop this genocide shall we?

 

Reply from Person B to them all: How do you know that the woman/racial minority/jewish-person didn't choose to become a woman/racial minority/jewish-person in the bardo? How do you know that the woman/racial minority/jewish-person has to learn the lesson of non attachment to the physical self? How do you know that not having a choice is not all part of the plan? How do you know?

 

You see? As I said before:

 

 

 

Tibetan_Ice, on 02 Aug 2014 - 21:44, said:

It is a mystery to me how, while living on the earth plane without full knowledge of what existence is and how it works, that the mind creates its own observations and then judges others and events based on those limited observations and limited understandings.

 

 

In the absolute sense all I can KNOW is that I exist. Everything else is a kind of relative knowledge. If this is what you mean by the above then you could apply the same argument to inducing any kind of suffering on animals, humans, whoever.

 

In terms of relative knowledge, which is really all we have to work with in terms of navigating consensus reality (it's how most all of the stuff that we're surrounded by was invented), then, our understanding of the suffering of animals is not limited whatsoever at all. All animals feel fear, pain and suffer to a certain extent. Other mammals especially. Pigs and cows especially. Pigs are so incredibly similar to us that they're considered/used for xenotransplantation (on a side note, this is VERY dodgy, as it could lead to new cross species disease, such as HIV [the solution is an opt out organ donation system, as they have in Belgium]). So, we know from extensive neuroscientific study that they (mammals like pigs and cows in particular) feel fear, pain and suffer. So, to recommend that we not induce suffering in these animals is not based on limited understanding at all.

 

And, again,

 

 

>Quote

Again, if wrong doing is being done, if rights and freedoms are being violated, and this is perpetuated through inaction and ignoring the issues, then it's good to educate and remind people about these issues. I'm sure women, racial minorities and homosexuals post 21st century and oppressed citizens around the world would agree. Animals show gratitude when rescued from suffering/abusive situations, so, that's them agreeing, just not in english.

 

 

 

 

When I watch a movie and watch people suffering I feel bad and it affects me. But when the movie is over, I realize that they were just actors acting out a part. It was all illusion. Keep a steady hand on that remote control...

 

Again, this could be used as an excuse for people to inflict ANY kind of suffering; in particular here, a spiritual excuse to resolve cognitive dissonance about the obvious suffering that animals are put through, especially in factory farming scenarios (happy animals 1000 times better, to me, than non happy animals).

 

As we evolve and develop, psychologically, sociologically AND spiritually, people tend to have the preference to flow in directions that cause/inflict the least suffering, in my experience at least. Most enlightened masters I've come across seem quite on the kind side. They won't take any bullshit from humans if they're spouting it, but, they tend to be kind in all other regards (and even this is kind).

How about this... When they start growing meat in laboratories are you going to eat it then?

And since when did life ever care if sentient beings suffer?

Maybe, I might. Probably not though as it's not necessary (as I've extensively outlined).

 

And, I never said that life DID care.

 

Though, A: On the non spiritual side, as I've repeatedly stated, the morals around eating meat aren't the only issue anymore. It's becoming a serious pragmatic problem. http://thetaobums.com/topic/35770-eating-meat-and-the-whole-jazz-around-it-was-sacrificing-an-act-of-love/page-2

 

And B: Thankfully, luckily, we're evolving, and the extent to which we exploit/abuse other beings that can experience fear, anxiety, stress and pain is slowly being reduced, and slowly being seen globally to be unacceptable (especially if it's unnecessary). It has started with fellow equal humans, and it's progressing down the levels of conscious awareness, insight, emotion centres and intelligence (as can be read in most ALL traditional spiritual literature [Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu/Yogic, etc] the levels of conscious awareness; and as can be simply seen through very simple scientific enquiry/data).

 

1. All humans slowly getting equal rights (women, different sexualities, racial minorities).

 

2. Highly intelligent animals. Many countries have laws against whaling, due to a whales HUGE cognitive capacity (orcas actually have more advanced emotion/empathy centres than humans do).

 

3. We now have laws against (no livestock) animal abuse in general in most developed countries. So, intelligent animals and pets like dogs, cats, etc are no longer legally allowed to be abused/exploited. In the UK there's the five freedoms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_freedoms so, not even livestock can legally be abused anymore.

 

And, hopefully it will continue this way.

 

Again, you see it in people. As they wake up, they tend to induce less suffering. This doesn't mean that they'll never eat meat, especially in more rural locations where ascetics and renunciants/monks/nuns live where perhaps animals are part of their diet, but, they treat the animals with respect and care until they are to be killed, and then they give thanks. This is the polar opposite to factory farming here.

 

Less suffering just seems to be the way that we evolve, which, makes sense really (to me anyway).

 

IMO:

Horrible (eating tortured factory farmed humans), bad (eating tortured factory farmed animals), good (eating foods with low environmental impact and animals that have been treated well), better (vegetarian diet with animal products from animals who are treated well), best (vegan diet)

 

I'm 99.99% sure I've covered all issues on this, and refuted all rebuttals against vegetarianism/veganism; spiritual, nutritional/diet/health/biological, ethical/moral, practical, environmental/ecological, economical. It's all been said in my previous posts on this thread. There is no good reason not to go veggie.

 

[Satya]

Just to cover all bases, and to repeat, I think this covers everything:

 

 

 

Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:02 PM

nickyro, on 02 Aug 2014 - 13:39, said:

Vegan diet in spiritual communities is mainstream and discussion about it is not even allowed.

The "meat diet" is regarded as an "anomaly", or because you don't know "how to eat vegan", but never it would be considered a genuine conclusion drawn by a methodical cultivation approach.

 

Yogic traditions all says that meat/fish nurture the two-three first chakras, anything related to the physical realm and sexuality.

What do you want to sublimate if you don't have radiant sexual energy to begin with?

 

Look at all the arguments you are compliling about this subject, from "There is no room for meat on our planet anymore" to "antibiotic resistance" . Those are the signs of an unhealthy approach to this subject, you are defending more a position, a whole lifestyle than a truly sincere approach to the path.

 

 

>

Satya, on 02 Aug 2014 - 11:24, said:

Well,

A:

As has been shown, on the pragmatic 'non spiritual' side it's not necessary to eat meat. It's not necessary to eat meat to receive all nutritional needs for 'normal living', for high energy/labour/physical-work living, or for high muscle mass high performance athletic living.

 

B:

The huge amounts of Yogic, Tantric, Buddhist, Hindu and Jain lineages in general, and various vegan or vegetarian masters from ALL lineages and systems, show that it's not necessary to eat meat for spiritual benefit. In fact, conversely, many masters espouse the vegetarian or vegan diet, highlighting that it's actually more beneficial than a meat eating diet. + Maybe you've felt that cultivation has been affected, but, there's thousands of years backing vegetarian diet going alongside spiritual practices. Many people don't seem to suffer with issues at all here. Chunyi Lin recommends and follows a vegetarian diet, and, he's recognised to be a high level Qigong Master, so, certainly no energetic cultivation problems there. It's pretty much ubiquitous throughout Yogic and Tantric circles, and, there're many powerful Yogic and Tantric masters out there.

So , your experience seems to be an anomaly in this case.

 

Specifically re:

Quote

Look at all the arguments you are compliling about this subject, from "There is no room for meat on our planet anymore" to "antibiotic resistance" . Those are the signs of an unhealthy approach to this subject, you are defending more a position, a whole lifestyle than a truly sincere approach to the path.

 

From my original post:

 

Quote

I'm just going to come at this from a pragmatic, scientific and moral basis (and most decent spiritual practice is pragmatic, scientific and moral anyway).

 

 

So, yes, I am highlighting practical issues related to people, animals and planet.

 

And, C: Given A, and B (above, not in the list below), considering all of the issues I have outlined:

 

Quote

A: It's not necessary to eat meat.
B: After energy production, livestock is the second-highest contributor to atmosphere-altering gases.
C: Stop antibiotic resistant superbugs from forming and wiping out millions of animals and humans.
D: There's no room for meat on our planet anymore.
E: Many meats are bad for you.
F: Help the starving masses, feed them the food that we needlessly use to feed livestock.
G: Stop encouraging murderous/psychopathic tendencies.
H: Stop the genuine, severe, horrible, perpetual suffering of animals.
I: The only pro from these extensive pros/CONS is "but I like how it tastes".
http://thetaobums.com/topic/35770-eating-meat-and-the-whole-jazz-around-it-was-sacrificing-an-act-of-love/page-2

 

then, it seems a no brainer to go meat free. After all, we need a planet/environment to cultivate on/in, and with these very real risks and issues, we not only cause needless suffering of others through the meat industry, but we're running out of resources, space, safe environment and medicines (among other things) on/for the planet and human society to survive.

 

Quote

One little place The Ecology Institute in Willits, California; they’ve said ‘Okay, starting with the presumption that there’ll be 7.5 billion of us in the middle of the 21st century, what’s the minimum amount of land per person we need to devote to agriculture, to support that population without fossil fuels? They worked out 2800 square feet, so it’s do-able.
Their calculations, I should say, are based on bio-intensive farming a strictly vegan diet and composting all plant and human waste, including post mortem humans."

From: Robert Newman's A History Of Oil (documentary); transcript: http://www.google.co....72185853,d.ZGU

 

That seems to cover all of the bases. Spiritual cultivation, health, environment, ethics/morals, pragmatic issues, all bases covered.

In short, the meat industry is bad for people, animals and earth and eating meat isn't required for spiritual or health needs.

I think that's all there is to be said.

 

 

I'm happy to hear any NEW points though .

Edited August 5, 2014 by Satya

[Satya]

I was a vegetarian for many years when I was younger and I regret it to a certain extent, I was lacking in Iron and some b vitamins during the vital stage in the growth of my nervous system.

I've already replied to this post above, but, when getting myself a (tasty vegan snack haha) I just thought I should add something.

 

Just incase you were wondering if being vegetarian when you were younger had a negative impact on your health/or caused anxiety or something, I ate meat until I was in my very late teens, and, I had physical and mental health problems throughout my childhood and teens. In fact, I became a lot more functional when I stopped eating meat (but, that could have correlated with other decisions in life too). I just thought I should add that, in my personal experience, eating meat when I was younger didn't benefit me at all, and, there's nothing to say that it would negatively affect someone.

 

And, as I've said above, vitamin and mineral supplements are fine (depending on which one you get).

[Horus]

I love meat and I'll continue to eat it unless I have some profound realisation. I don't think that realisation will come.

 

I'm compassionate for you, and I'm not looking for another scorned respondent - but...Confirmed, I doubt you'll have any major realisation, unfortunate - but still perfection. Not trying to be nasty, ya just too head based. 

 

I say that some animals can only eat meat. Then a vegetarian responds with some sort of logic whereby since we are intellectually smarter then that makes it immoral. Nope, that one doesn't stick with me.

 

It doesn't stick with me either, as its a bullshit argument. 99.99% will not take responsibility for their intellect, and in free will there is nothing substantial about morality anyway - anything goes and there is no judgement.

 

The point of cruelty IS a valid reason for not eating meat. It is not a valid reason for not eating any meat.

 

Yes, cruelty is a valid reason. But that's all it will remain in the realm of reason. It is precisely that which keeps it there - reason is a tyrant over love (ever heard that?).

 

The truth is that you need to be in your heart to embody true compassion.

 

When there long enough you will feel their pain as yours.

 

The animal can lead a good life and at the end they die instantly and pain-free.

 

This is a nice and classic example of the complete naivety of intellect.

 

When you get out of your head long enough and let the heart drive the bus, you'll see that animals are the way they are in huge response to the choice of mankind. I mean that statement in a higher spiritual sense, the speciation on this planet has been hugely compromised by our choice to let go of responsibility. Not a statement I can, nor care to prove or justify (right now) but, none the less - ascend and see the group souls of the animals and have a chat - then let's reconvene.

 

Until then all I can offer is compassion for you, and the animals - as the deficit caused by your stagnation in intellect is hardening into the negative heart virtue of arrogance - to suggest that any animal killed for food can "die instantly and pain-free" - it is against the souls purpose. They see you when they leave their body ya know...they realise how lost you are and are counseled on it (sometimes).

 

You do feel like a good person though, I like you, so I'm sorry for any upswell my words may create.

 

My all our egos fry in the light of truth!!

[Horus]

The sad thing is, we are all parasites, relaying on something else for survival. 

 

Haha, one day the largest parasite in the universe found a tasty tail....

 

It looked so tasty he decided to start eating it, yes yummy he thought...

 

He kept eating and eating and eating and one day he ate all of this tasty beast and all that was left was darkness.

[Horus]

Since a while I'm pondering upon going fruitarian, I don't like a lot of tastes anymore, but I like sweet things and fruit. Are there some fruitarians here, or people with experiences in that direction?

 

Yeh man, fruit me up!

 

Well, I'm an advocate of balance so I'm raw until 4(pm).

 

But a change to fruit and starches is a great way to go...I found bigu a more awakening diet, but unsustainable long term until such times as the energy body can do all the gobbling for you.

 

Get ya self a vitamix or equiv if ya go that way, as its hard to eat 8 bananas and 15odd dates for breakfast in a single breakfast sitting otherwise.

 

If ya go fruity ya need to up the intake.

[Horus]

Hey, GP nice to hear from you...

 

All respect to any and all dietary choices.

 

Absolutley, at the highest level, there is no judgement. Free will is absolute.

 

Whatever we grew up eating if we were lucky enough to get enough to eat... That's 'home' food.
Most people stick to that and maybe enjoy a few forays into different dishes.
It's all good.

 

If we all came here into 3d and did the same our parents did and taught us, we will not evolve.

 

These are just words I lay down, but the children of tomorrow will do things very differently...including shaking their heads at what we ate in the past, and what we good vegans had to watch

 

but don't preach it to others who have differing tastes and have made different dietary choices.
We can all of us respect difference and whatever goes into someone's mouth as food does not define them.
It's what comes out of folks' mouths as words that defines and delineates what's in their hearts.

 

All good and well GP, but words or not, an err from the highest good is just that, no matter what your personal taste...

 

Anyone can preach anything to anyone, and anyone can tell anyone not to preach..we all have free will.

 

I'm more than happy to preach the truth as I see it while I watch you stuff your face with toxic crap, I have no judgement.

 

But I still like the smell of burning ego raped from ignorance as much as you enjoy the smell of a burning T-Bone raped from a tortured steer.

 

We all have free will, some see the light, others see some of it, some see it and still choose otherwise.

 

Some seek to justify it to themselves, its those types that are most vulnrable as their ethos is tangibly linked in reason...so we wait. Reason will one day be raped into Compassion once more.

[Horus]

Many of them, no? 

 

I never had to see an abattoir to stop, but, I was raised on a meat eating diet and so, this was 'normal' to me, and it was only after meeting others external to me, and hearing that they did not eat meat, and hearing some of the reasons why that made me question why I'd never questioned this before, and break this conditioning.  

 

 

Not for me...

 

For me it was the gut aches that started getting worse, and then I started seeing the animals.

 

I'd touch the meat and see the cow's spirit.

 

It was tough to enjoy a drumstick when you see the spirit of the chook walking around with no body

[Horus]

my opinion is that if people refuse to eat that animal out of protest, then that animal died for nothing.

 

The animal died for one reason...to show you yourself.

 

gnōthi seauton

 

By taking part in your will to experience that which you are not, they take part in an opportunity for you to remember that which you are.

 

On a spiritual level, you are their greatest investment - they are willing to die for you by the millions, endlessly...they wait for the homecoming...so it is.

 

Eating the flesh does not make them honoured, nor happy...its just a simple mind trick your ego plays to keep you living through the senses (so it can survive).

 

If you don't get that yet, wait then until you face the 6d void in terror - then let go and know thyself.