Ebola coming to the USA

[Anoesjka]

Odds are that anyone with Ebola is pretty much fecked anyhoo.

90% mortality apparently.

Those are not good odds.

Sounds harsh I know but keep 'em over there in Africa would be my preference.

Is Donald Trump the golf course guy?

70 to 90% actually.

 

I feel for those people trying to help the sick in Africa, and knowing full well that they are risking their lives. What makes Ebola so dangerous is fear, the people are so superstitious that they refuse help from the west, thus spreading the disease. Africa really seems a dark dark continent now.

 

Edit: I just now read thelerner's post, my post seems somehow irrelevant now.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Anoesjka

[thelerner]

There's a couple different strains of it. Some outbreaks the mortality rate was 44% others under 50%, some were incredibly high 88%. Keep in mind you're dealing with countries that have very limited often very poor medical facilities. With facilities and modern medicine using massive transfusions many people can be saved.

 

Money and expanded research is being thrown at the problem, new treatments are coming. Still, in 3rd world countries where even a cut can quickly turn deadly, a catastrophic viral disease like ebola will not be easily cured. Past outbreaks have been contained and limited. The latest has hit several areas at the same time, stretching resources. But because its less infectious then some nasty airborne diseases out there, it can be controlled when there's a modern system. Good odds anyway.

[Marblehead]

Well, just to add more fuel for those who are paranoid, that one American doctor who has Ebola has arrived in Atlanta. So now the thread title should read "Ebola has come to the USA."

[GrandmasterP]

As long as he doesn't make housecalls .........

[Vmarco]

By painting Ebola as a doomsday disease there is the chance of unintended consequences and people who can safely get care and quarantine will run for the hills because of the fear factor being spread.

Interesting comment,...although suppressing the information as a "not significant risk" could also have unintended consequences. Ebola is certainly not a doomsday virus, like the plague in 1918,...but although unable to be airborne, it does appear to be transmitted through bodily fluids such as tears, vomit, sweat, blood, seman, urine, spit, nasal release, which necessitates significant protection, not only from full blown patients for Healthcare workers, but moreso, from pre-symptom infectee's, like possibly the person sitting next to you on an airplane.

 

The biggest problem as I see it, are inconsiderate, individualistic people who do not self-quarantine, and even see working while sick "a badge of honor." If, as was reported, the ebola patient in Atlanta "walked" into the hospital, to me, that signals grave consequences for the inconsiderate Christian Nation of America (since 1956),...perhaps not doomsday,...but certainly significant caution for prudent folks.

 

Just because your paranoid, does not mean they (ebola) are not out to get you.

[Vmarco]

Well, just to add more fuel for those who are paranoid, that one American doctor who has Ebola has arrived in Atlanta. So now the thread title should read "Ebola has come to the USA."

The report is,...he walked into the hospital,...which as I mentioned above, should be considered very frightening.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Interesting comment,...although suppressing the information as a "not significant risk" could also have unintended consequences. Ebola is certainly not a doomsday virus, like the plague in 1918,...but although unable to be airborne, it does appear to be transmitted through bodily fluids such as tears, vomit, sweat, blood, seman, urine, spit, nasal release, which necessitates significant protection, not only from full blown patients for Healthcare workers, but moreso, from pre-symptom infectee's, like possibly the person sitting next to you on an airplane.

 

The biggest problem as I see it, are inconsiderate, individualistic people who do not self-quarantine, and even see working while sick "a badge of honor." If, as was reported, the ebola patient in Atlanta "walked" into the hospital, to me, that signals grave consequences for the inconsiderate Christian Nation of America (since 1956),...perhaps not doomsday,...but certainly significant caution for prudent folks.

 

Just because your paranoid, does not mean they (ebola) are not out to get you.

 

I was waiting in a hospital with my grandparents and was witness to what seemed a very sick person coughing (into their hands), sneezing, blowing their noise in front of a vending machine, continuing to use that vending machine immediately after coughing up their guts all over their hands... pressing the buttons etc... 0_0, started looking around for hospital staff to intervene or to sterilize the machine after... nothing. Grubs. Not to mention other things they have come into contact with I wasn't witness to. Stay away from those places haha.

 

 

John Snow Professor of Epidemiology at the Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University. Lipkin said the virus is not highly transmissable, but the number of people who can be infected by one person is high.

 

 

LOL ^ in other words, it is highly transmissible.

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Here is a fun fact I came across yesterday from a 1994? study.

Average American lifespan = 75.5 years
Average lifespan of an American doctor = 58

Yeh...

Who do you trust? haha

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Vending machines selling soft drink, chocolate, chips ... In a hospital ... and folks wonder why...

- Avoid like the plague, haha

I was waiting in a hospital with my grandparents and was witness to what seemed a very sick person coughing (into their hands), sneezing, blowing their noise in front of a vending machine, continuing to use that vending machine immediately after coughing up their guts all over their hands... pressing the buttons etc... 0_0, started looking around for hospital staff to intervene or to sterilize the machine after... nothing. Grubs. Not to mention other things they have come into contact with I wasn't witness to. Stay away from those places haha.

[Vmarco]

Vending machines selling soft drink, chocolate, chips ... In a hospital ... and folks wonder why...

 

- Avoid like the plague, haha

 

 

How many people catch infections from elevator buttons?....whether in a hospital or not? Or from a shopping cart at a grocery store. A small investment in pocket size Antibacterial Wipes ,...and using them,...is a good idea. Washing hands at a sink,...potentially a bacterial habitat, is not always handy.

[silent thunder]

anti-bacterial my heiny...

wash with good foamy soap and sing loudly...

it scares the demons of illness

Edited August 3, 2014 by silent thunder

[Vmarco]

anti-bacterial my heiny...

wash with good foamy soap and sing loudly...

it scares the demons of illness

Pretty rare to see a foamy soap dispenser near elevators, before you put your filthy hands to your face, or shake someone's hand.

 

Also,...singing aloud in America is frowned upon, unless it's a religious song,...which folks from TTB should not be doing.

 

"Do not go about worshipping deities and religious institutions as the source of the subtle truth...the world's religions serve only to strengthen attachments to false concepts such as self and other, life and death, heaven and earth, and so on. Those who become entangled in these false ideas are prevented from perceiving the Integral Oneness." Lao Tzu

[eye_of_the_storm]

How many people catch infections from elevator buttons?....whether in a hospital or not? Or from a shopping cart at a grocery store. A small investment in pocket size Antibacterial Wipes ,...and using them,...is a good idea. Washing hands at a sink,...potentially a bacterial habitat, is not always handy.

 

Well hospitals are generally a concentration of sickness

 

Better chances in a grocery store + all the good fruits + veges that when eaten will give you health and vitality that will resist

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[thelerner]

How many people catch infections from elevator buttons?....whether in a hospital or not? Or from a shopping cart at a grocery store. A small investment in pocket size Antibacterial Wipes ,...and using them,...is a good idea. Washing hands at a sink,...potentially a bacterial habitat, is not always handy.

I had a class in a hospital. Went there 3 times a week and generally used the elevator at least to go up. Didn't catch nothing. Course they had lots of anti bacterial stuff every major exit and I'd use them

 

Here is a fun fact I came across yesterday from a 1994? study.

 

Average American lifespan = 75.5 years

Average lifespan of an American doctor = 58

Yeh... Who do you trust? haha

Sometimes one shouldn't trust statistics that seem too odd. If it costs nearly 20 years of life, would anyone be a doctor? It'd be more dangerous then smoking 2 packs a day.

 

My stats came up with White Doctors lived 73.0 years (Black Dr's lived 68.7?!) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11020591

excerpt:

Mortality rates and causes among U.S. physicians. Abstract

CONTENT/OBJECTIVES: No recent national studies have been published on age at death and causes of death for U.S. physicians, and previous studies have had sampling limitations. Physician morbidity and mortality are of interest for several reasons, including the fact that physicians' personal health habits may affect their patient counseling practices.

METHODS: Data in this report are from the National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database and are derived from deaths occurring in 28 states between 1984 and 1995. Occupation is coded according to the U.S. Bureau of the Census classification system, and cause of death is coded according to the ninth revision of the International Classification of Diseases. RESULTS: Among both U.S. white and black men, physicians were, on average, older when they died, (73.0 years for white and 68.7 for black) than were lawyers (72.3 and 62.0), all examined professionals (70.9 and 65.3), and all men (70.3 and 63.6).

 

The urban legend may have been spawned by the Dead Doctors Don't Lie guy. Here's a link to the story: http://www.murfreesboropost.com/dr-kestner-do-doctors-really-die-earlier-than-their-patients-cms-16779

 

excerpt: The tape went on to talk about the common cause of all manner of human conditions, but I was stopped cold by that assertion about doctors dying at age 58.

 

The notion that medical doctors were dying years earlier than everyone else seemed absurd. Generally speaking, people who go into medicine are quite bright. One would think that if this statement were even remotely close to being true, someone in the entire field of medicine would have had a light-bulb moment and exclaim, “Hey, wait a minute! Have you guys noticed that all our colleagues seem to be dropping dead at least a decade earlier than our patients?”

 

Of course the whole notion was a blatant mistruth that was intended to make the listeners distrust medicine. Out of curiosity, I investigated the average age of death of medical doctors. At the time, each edition of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) printed obituaries of all their members that had passed away during the previous month. I took a whole year’s worth of JAMA, noted the ages at the time of death, did a little math and discovered that the average age at death of physicians was in the 70s … just like everyone else.

 

The astounding thing that I observed when this tape was making the rounds was that many listeners actually believed it. How could a story that is introduced with such an obvious exaggeration have any credibility? I still don’t understand that. Amazingly, the tape is still circulating.

 

Another thing that occurred to me as interesting after I confirmed that physicians don’t have shorter life spans than everyone else, is that they don’t live much longer either!

 

 

edit> Here's an update and a bit good news both for patient and perhaps society (ie patient given a new serum that has helped, as well as other remedies coming online) http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dr-kent-brantly-american-ebola-got-experimental-serum-group-says-n171681

 

Dr. Kent Brantly, one of the two Americans who contracted Ebola in Liberia, received a dose of an experimental serum before he was flown to the United States for treatment, an aid organization that he works with said Sunday.

 

The aid organization, a Christian group called Samaritan’s Purse, said it was grateful for news that Brantly’s condition is improving. Earlier, the group had said there was only enough serum for one dose and that it went to Nancy Writebol, the other American infected. Writebol is to be flown to Atlanta this week and treated at Emory University Hospital, where Brantly is also being treated. There is no known cure for Ebola. Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has said he does not know what treatment the group may be using. There are several in development.

 

 

From the 'Several in development' link:

 

..Various labs have been working for decades to come up with drugs and vaccines to fight Ebola and its close cousin Marburg virus. They are both considered potential bioterrorism agents, which is what drives most of the U.S. government’s interest.

 

One drug started safety trials in people in January, but it got put on hold by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration earlier this month over concerns about the dose being given to volunteers. It’s made by a Canadian company called Tekmira, with funding from the U.S. government. The drug uses small bits of genetic material called RNA that attach to the virus and target it for destruction by the immune system.

 

The company hopes to get back on track by the end of the year. “We are mindful of the need for this important therapeutic in situations such as the ongoing Ebola outbreak in West Africa,” Dr. Mark Murray, president and CEO of Tekmira Pharmaceuticals, said in a statement. “However, TKM-Ebola is currently an unapproved agent and the regulatory framework to support its use in Africa has not been established at this time."

 

Further along in human testing is a drug called favipiravir, or T-705. Approved under the brand name Avigan in Japan, it’s being tested for influenza. But early tests in mice suggest it might also work against Ebola. This one would be especially useful because it’s a small molecule — something that could be taken orally, even in pill form. Bavari says USAMRIID is currently testing it against monkeys, animals whose response to Ebola infections is much closer to humans than mice's are.

 

The lab is also testing a drug called BCX4430 in animals. A small biotech company called BioCryst is working with USAMRIID to develop that one. It seemed to protect monkeys when given as long as 48 hours after they were infected.

 

Other drugs are based on monoclonal antibodies, engineered immune system proteins that can home in specifically on a microbe. One collaboration grows them in genetically engineered tobacco plants.

The treatment, called MB-003, provided 100 percent protection to monkeys when given right after exposure to the virus, and helped even after symptoms developed.

 

There are some promising vaccines, also, says Geisbert. His favorite is made using a virus called vesicular stomatitis virus. It’s genetically engineered to resemble Ebola, and it’s worked well in monkeys. Scientists who have worked with it feel confident it’s effective, Geisbert says. “We would all want it,” he said.

But it uses a “live” virus, which means it can replicate in the body and that could cause side-effects. “Like any live vaccine, you have to worry about safety,” Geisbert said.

 

Other vaccines have used adenoviruses, which are in the family of viruses that cause the common cold. The trouble with these is that many people already have immunity to adenoviruses because they’ve had colds, and the vaccines may not work in all people.

 

Then there are vaccines using virus-like particles, an approach that’s worked against other disease. Again, they haven’t been tested in people yet, says Bavari.

“All kinds of questions come up about who do you treat and is it ethical to use it."

Geisbert says he sometimes wonders whether a bad outbreak like this one doesn’t call for unusual measures, like trying some of the experimental drugs or vaccines.

 

“All kinds of questions come up about who do you treat and is it ethical to use it,” he said. “My own opinion, regardless of the treatment, is that I would love to see one of the vaccines used to vaccinate first responders, lab workers, the people that are on the front line,” he said.

 

Other experts say an ongoing outbreak is a poor time to try something that could just make matters worse.

Bavari says he hopes the current outbreak will give drug and vaccine development a little impetus.

“Maybe this outbreak will put some life into this. Maybe people will start asking the tough questions, such as do they work in human beings or not,” he said.

Edited August 4, 2014 by thelerner

[eye_of_the_storm]

Well depends what year? did he look at the 1994 stats? He only used 1 year also as a sample.

Over a 10-20 year time frame would be interesting.

It is still ridiculous that the most "highly educated" etc etc "health professionals" only manage to get themselves an extra 2 years on average... compared to the general population... Vegetarian males on average are living 9.5 years longer than the average http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Vegetarians-have-longer-life-expectancy-than-meat-eaters-finds-study

So on average you'd be better to ask a vegetarian about health than a "health professional"

//

Regarding life expectancy, race and averages that could be related to age of maturity. There is a correlation between age of physical maturity and life expectancy from what I understand.

Females:

http://www.2minutemedicine.com/pros-network-study-examines-pubertal-onset-by-raceethnic-groups-pediatrics-classics-series/

Males:

Observed mean ages of beginning genital and pubic hair growth and early testicular volumes were 6 months to 2 years earlier than in past studies, depending on the characteristic and race/ethnicity. The causes and public health implications of this apparent shift in US boys to a lower age of onset for the development of secondary sexual characteristics in US boys needs further exploration.Note that African-American boys began puberty more than one full year before white boys.

http://digressionality.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/earlier-male-puberty-and-racialethnic.html

So similar between the girls and boys about 6 month - 1+ year difference

This is a general rule

Summary:

Female mice from strains with lower IGF1 levels reach sexual maturity at a significantly later age. Combined with previous research showing that mouse strains with lower circulating levels of IGF1 live longer, the findings suggest a genetically regulated tradeoff: delayed reproduction but longer life.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120507154103.htm


So age of maturity x (A) = general life expectancy

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vmarco]

 

White Wolf Running On Air, on 03 Aug 2014 - 11:02, said:

 

Here is a fun fact I came across yesterday from a 1994? study.

 

Average American lifespan = 75.5 years

Average lifespan of an American doctor = 58

Yeh... Who do you trust? haha

 

 

Sometimes one shouldn't trust statistics that seem too odd. If it costs nearly 20 years of life, would anyone be a doctor? It'd be more dangerous then smoking 2 packs a day.

 

If this so, it's the first thing I've ever saw to justify the huge salaries of USA doctors.

 

This past May, I had a medical situation, and needed emergency surgery. Totally amazed by the healthcare in Thailand,....and so lucky this didn't occur in the USA. I easily trusted my life to the gastroenternological surgeon, who performed the 4+ hours surgery. Instead of slapping in a "mesh" that is standard in US hospitals,...this compassionate surgeon meticulously hand sowed the muscle layers back. (Yes, they did have mesh,...but I requested not to have it, due to its high complication rate). Unfortunately, I contracted pneumonia afterwards, and for 3 days thought I was a goner,...even though a lung specialist quickly got me to ICU. Anyway, to get to the point,...the surgeon, IMO, one of the top in the world, cost $1200US,...while the full 12 day, private room, hospital stay, in the luxurious Ram Hospital in Chiang Mai was $8300US (that is all costs, including the surgeon).

 

In the US, that would have been more than $100k,...and if I survived,...can only imagine the life long complications I'd be stuck with.

 

I would not trust an American doctor with an ingrown toe nail.

 

In 1982, I went into a US hospital for a test. They said they had to insert dye into me,...the doctor operated on my feet. Recently I heard of an adult fellow from Atlanta who went in for a circumcision,...and they cut off his whole penis. The hospital said it was justified, and are demanding full payment. Talk about insult to injury.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Vmarco

[eye_of_the_storm]

I would believe the 58 year stat, spent enough time in hospitals + with doctors with my grandparents (I have no faith in dr/hospitals (in general), my grandparents do unfortunately)

1 out of 10 doctors est looked somewhat healthy, as with nurses.

Walking to the carpark there is a designated smoking area for staff... yeh...

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

.

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hospital infections kill 200 daily in US...

 

That year, the CDC survey found that about 721,800 infections occurred in 648,000 hospital patients.

Some 75,000 patients with healthcare-associated infections died during their hospitalizations.

The most common infections were pneumonia and surgical site infections (each at 22 percent), followed by gastrointestinal infections (17 percent), urinary tract infections (13 percent), and bloodstream infections (10 percent).

 

http://news.msn.com/us/hospital-infections-kill-200-daily-in-us

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444620104578008263334441352

When there is a plane crash in the U.S., even a minor one, it makes headlines. There is a thorough federal investigation, and the tragedy often yields important lessons for the aviation industry. Pilots and airlines thus learn how to do their jobs more safely.

The world of American medicine is far deadlier: Medical mistakes kill enough people each week to fill four jumbo jets. But these mistakes go largely unnoticed by the world at large, and the medical community rarely learns from them. The same preventable mistakes are made over and over again, and patients are left in the dark about which hospitals have significantly better (or worse) safety records than their peers.

WSJ's Gary Rosen talks to author and surgeon Marty Makary about his ideas for making American hospitals more transparent about their safety records and more accountable for the quality of their care.

As doctors, we swear to do no harm. But on the job we soon absorb another unspoken rule: to overlook the mistakes of our colleagues. The problem is vast. U.S. surgeons operate on the wrong body part as often as 40 times a week. Roughly a quarter of all hospitalized patients will be harmed by a medical error of some kind. If medical errors were a disease, they would be the sixth leading cause of death in America—just behind accidents and ahead of Alzheimer's. The human toll aside, medical errors cost the U.S. health-care system tens of billions a year. Some 20% to 30% of all medications, tests and procedures are unnecessary, according to research done by medical specialists, surveying their own fields. What other industry misses the mark this often?

Edited August 4, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vmarco]

 

Quote

 

 

Hospital infections kill 200 daily in US...

 

 

That year, the CDC survey found that about 721,800 infections occurred in 648,000 hospital patients.

 

Some 75,000 patients with healthcare-associated infections died during their hospitalizations.

 

The most common infections were pneumonia and surgical site infections (each at 22 percent), followed by gastrointestinal infections (17 percent), urinary tract infections (13 percent), and bloodstream infections (10 percent).

 

 

About 30 years ago I was overwhelmed with laughter in a Mens Room of an office building. It was about 10am, and a sharply dressed fellow entered about 10 meters before me. As I walked in, proceeding to the sinks, the fellow was already standing in front of a urinal,...and then approached the sinks, where and when I began to laugh, even beyond when my face began to hurt.

 

So....here's this fellow, obviously showered in the morning,...picked up coffee, opened doors, used the elevator, shook hands, touch numerous, potentially infectious things, then comes into the Men's Room, and with his filthy hands, pulls out, what up till now, was likely the cleanest part of his body,...and then, washes his hands. And, seeing this, and realizing that nearly all American men do this,...I began laughing.

 

As for elevators,...I would say that the elevators on an office building are far more infection prone than at a hospital. But the worse offender for catching infections must be shopping carts.

[joeblast]

[eye_of_the_storm]

yep ^

[joeblast]

Nigerian authorities say they have confirmed a second case of Ebola in Africa's most populous country, an alarming development after a man who flew by plane to the country died of Ebola.

 

Nigerian Health Minister Onyebuchi Chukwu said Monday that the second person with Ebola is a doctor who had helped treat Patrick Sawyer, the Liberian-American man who died of Ebola in late July.

 

Sawyer, who was traveling to Nigeria on business, became ill while aboard a flight and Nigerian authorities immediately took him into isolation. They did not quarantine his fellow passengers, and have insisted that the risk of additional cases was minimal.

[thelerner]

Well depends what year? did he look at the 1994 stats? He only used 1 year also as a sample.

 

Don't want to beat an injured horse. It might need a surgeon.

 

But.. It doesn't depend on the year. The stat of doctors dying at 58 was a self serving lie to push a vitamin/colloidal brand.

 

I certainly agree there are problems with our current health care system. (I'd need details but I'd like to see a single payer system here in the States) Secondary infection rates are terrible, still you didn't measure them against Thailand (they may not record them). Heck, you caught pneumonia there. When you have a concentration of sick people, there's going to problems. But good hospitals should take care.

 

Personally I don't shake hands with doctors or health professionals. Silly formality.