Minor schools and inconsistent methods (from Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji)

[alchemist]

(Translated from Russian, original Chinese-to-Russian translation by D.A. Artemiev.)

 

Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?"

 

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao.

 

These are such methods as:

1. Fasting.

2. Starvation.

3. Gathering of qi.

4. Saliva swallowing.

5. Sexual abstinence.

6. Forgoing tastes.

7. Chan meditation.

8. Silence.

9. Awareness.

10. The Art of the inner chambers.

11. Inhaling much, exhaling little.

12. Maintaining purity.

13. Quieting (thoughts stopping).

14. Avoiding fatigue.

15. Opening of the heads crown.

16. Puckering genitals into ones body.

17. Symptoms disappearance.

18. Canons reading and recitation.

19. Outer alchemy.

20. Breathe restraining.

21. Dao Yin practices.

22. Tu Na gymnastics.

23. Gathering and replenishing.

24. Charity and donations.

25. Sacrifices.

26. Giving help.

27. Retreating into mountains.

28. Innate wisdom (analytical mind).

29. Immobility.

30. Formal maintaining of the teaching lineage.

 

Its not possible to fully recite all the minor schools and inconsistent methods. To the extent that (they):

 

Gather essence of sun and moon and accumulate Qi of Heaven and Earth.

Think endlessly, hoping to produce cinnabar.

Bend the body, exhausting it, trying to break free.

Inhale a lot, but exhale a little, in attempt to cure diseases, considering it a true embryonic breathing.

Halt thinking and forget the words, that correspond to nurturing the nature of xing, but this just points to cultivation of the true of qi contained in the Great Fundamental.

Practice the art of inner chambers, but this is just a lower cultivation method of the fate - ming.

Immobilize the body like a withered tree, and make the mind calm like cold ash - and this is a small art of spirit concentration.

What to do if in antiquity and today the men cultivating the Dao were trying hard and constantly care (only about it), but since the saliva was believed to be the cure, how was it possible to carry out the creation?

Thickening qi as the elixir is it possible to achieve its conservation? Considering liver to be a dragon, lungs to be a tiger how is it possible to unite them? Assuming Kan to be lead, and Li to be mercury is it possible to prolong the life? Based on the year seasons sought to cultivate yellow sprout.

Not letting intention to dissipate, coveted to find a Great cure.

Comparing years and matching months wasted days and got confused over time.

Without understanding Wu Xing basics how could they perceive the creation of three principles?

Acquired only a superficial and fooled the descendants. This led for the Great Dao to become disregarded over the time; (they) rose and become a custom of heresy and false teaching. In this way the original meaning of the ancient Masters was lost.

 

Exactly because of Dao were listening empty jabber and superficial teachings; pointed followers, who understood nothing, to them as secret methods of practice; passed each other forms of instruction and interpretations, but in due time decent into the netherworld, causing the hearts of men to numb with fear!

 

Under no circumstances wanted to cultivate and fulfill the Great Dao, outshone their contemporaries, only cared about the happiness and avoidance of failures, did not believe in innermost secrets and only multiplied the wealth and neglected their fate, thus heading to turn into devils (ghost)!

[opendao]

a few comments for the admirers of false schools and fake methods :-)

 

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao.

These are such methods as:
3. Gathering of qi.

 

standing meditation and some other qigong exercises are not methods of Neidan according Zhongli Quan

 

7. Chan meditation.
8. Silence.
9. Awareness.

 

dazuo, "sitting silently", mindfulness, "pure awareness" etc are not methods of Neidan according Zhongli Quan

 

11. Inhaling much, exhaling little.

 

breathing

 

12. Maintaining purity.
13. Quieting (thoughts stopping).

 

another kind of meditation (aka daily training in some schools) are not methods of Neidan according Zhongli Quan

 

20. Breathe restraining.

 

breathing again. It's not methods of Neidan according Zhongli Quan

 

21. Dao Yin practices.
22. Tu Na gymnastics.

 

That's all Qigong again, not Neidan. I would add Tai Ji Quan in the modern form.

 

24. Charity and donations.

25. Sacrifices.
26. Giving help.

 

"Kindness", "have freedom from craving", "flow with the flow" and other false De (Virtues) are not methods of Neidan as well.

 

----------------------------------------------

 

So all methods promoted by numerous Qigong and spiritual teachers nowadays, like meditation, breathing, gymnastics etc are not Neidan and won't give any results described in Neidan texts.

 

It's impossible and misleading to label such methods as "Neidan", "Daoist Alhemy", "Internal Alchemy", "Dandao", "Dadao" etc.

 

Of course, you can try to argue with Zhongli Quan

[goldisheavy]

What methods does Zhongli Quan advise?

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Ish]

lighting something on fire = great dao?

[LaoZiDao]

I believe that video is a fake, and even if it does happen to be real...its nothing to do with Dao or Neidan, actually anti-dao...wasting yuanqi etc.

 

And the video clearly says Qigong, which is not neidan!

 

You have refuted no one.

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Brian]

 

This is already more than 99.999% of all other schools achieve.

The Mo Pai masters are Taoist Immortals. That's "great dao".

^^^ That's awesome! How many of them have you met so far?

[GrandmasterP]

Well there's you Brian.

Plus BKA.

MH.

Me

Quite a few of us 'immortals' on here.

None of the MoPai boosters sadly, those sad saps are well and truly lost thus far along their journeys.

On topic though and re that windy OP from our Russian chum.

It possibly suffers in translation but the overall tone of it tends towards triumphalism.

Triumphalism might appeal to the Slavic mindset (audience) as they've not had much in the way of triumph this many years past.

Our Russian chum's 'guru', or whoever is pushing that material to the Russians is following a well trodden path.

1: Delineate and define what it is you are NOT ( i.e.are 'better than').

2: Sell your own schtick to the poor bleddy Russians who are shivering in damp and unheated concrete apartments awaiting a better tomorrow.

People gotta hope so 'hope merchants' are seldom short of customers.

That OP is a faux Taoist " Jehovah Witness- style" tract, nothing more and with just as much value.

Edited August 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Brian]

Sweet!

 

Yeah, ya know... I have been feeling a bit immortalish lately. That explains it.

[LaoZiDao]

GrandmasterP, i know a Master who is Chinese and says the same things. Funny that isn't it.

[GrandmasterP]

How kind.

Thank you.

Is s/he Chen Xi Yi ( hermit) lineage by any chance?

That's proscription number 27 on that foolish list BTW.

We do all tend to say similar things.

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Wells]

^^^ That's awesome! How many of them have you met so far?

 

You better ask GrandmasterP this question...

Isn't he the guy who claims to channel Jim & Co.?

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[GrandmasterP]

You better ask GrandmasterP this question...

Isn't he the guy who claims to channel Jim & Co.?

 

Jim is spending a few years dead for tax purposes.

He sends his very best regards to all though and says.....

" Keep buying my book guys, buy some to give. It makes for a great present."

 

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[GrandmasterP]

Jim says "God bless you for caring Zoom."

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[LaoZiDao]

How kind.

Thank you.

Is s/he Chen Xi Yi ( hermit) lineage by any chance?

That's proscription number 27 on that foolish list BTW.

We do all tend to say similar things.

 

You misunderstood number 27. Retreating to mountains is not a method.

[GrandmasterP]

You misunderstood number 27. Retreating to mountains is not a method.

 

Nope it's a praxis.

That list delineates praxes.

The Russian guy is lining stuff up in order to knock it down.

Watch and see where this and related threads turn into...

" My guy is the ONLY guy...." and so on.

Always happens with these sorts of OPs.

 

[damdao]

I think that we can leave aside the interpretation based on folk-anthropology and try to understand what the book says.

I think that parallel descriptions could be found in others book, for instance Liu Yiming's books. It is like a via negativa.

The challenge remains and will remain until one can get the oral instruction, but this is in that way now and was from the beginning.

This translation has the merit to say clearly which methods are referring to (some translations are not that clear), and the division made by Opendao makes it even more clear. Of course, it contradicts the discourses of many spiritual teachers but this is a challenge for them because many achievements are only supported by words and manipulative mechanisms.

About mopai it is clear that is not neidan and the principles are very different beginning with the use of yin energy, and, at least in the story, giving a good example of ghostly immortality.

[GrandmasterP]

I hate to say...

" I told you so....."

But ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[GrandmasterP]

I think that we can leave aside the interpretation based on folk-anthropology and try to understand what the book says.

I think that parallel descriptions could be found in others book, for instance Liu Yiming's books. It is like a via negativa.

The challenge remains and will remain until one can get the oral instruction, but this is in that way now and was from the beginning.

This translation has the merit to say clearly which methods are referring to (some translations are not that clear), and the division made by Opendao makes it even more clear. Of course, it contradicts the discourses of many spiritual teachers but this is a challenge for them because many achievements are only supported by words and manipulative mechanisms.

About mopai it is clear that is not neidan and the principles are very different beginning with the use of yin energy, and, at least in the story, giving a good example of ghostly immortality.

 

 

We get it bubba.

Your guy's stuff is right.

Every other fecker is wrong.

Hope that helps.

[joeblast]

You are insulting Jim's family with your crude BS.

But its okay for you guys to insult the entire mo pai lineage?

[KenBrace]

(Translated from Russian, original Chinese-to-Russian translation by D.A. Artemiev.)

 

Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?"

 

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods of minor schools are considered efficient and widely spread among the laity; they are passed from one to another and until death the true awareness does not come; they subsequently become customary and discredit the Great Dao.

 

Excellent quote! I fully agree.