Minor schools and inconsistent methods (from Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji)

[Taoist Texts]

Read again....."general principles" not methods

 

The Head of The School Wu Chung-Xu has explained in detail the general principles of different teachings in his book "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas", the truth of the 3 teachings returning to their unity". Methods of WuLiuPai School took the major Buddhist works such as 金刚经, 楞 严 经, 华严经 and others, combined them with the works of perfect people in each school of Taoism, fused it into a single system, created the original School

http://thetaobums.co...chool/?p=568667

 

 

 

 

http://thetaobums.co...chool/?p=568667

[Taoist Texts]

Can you read what is written and not what you want to read? The school was created from an orthodox Daoist lineage, not from texts.

But looks like your only goal here is trolling.

 

The Head of The School Wu Chung-Xu has explained in detail the general principles of different teachings in his book "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas", the truth of the 3 teachings returning to their unity". Methods of WuLiuPai School took the major Buddhist works such as 金刚经, 楞 严 经, 华严经 and others, combined them with the works of perfect people in each school of Taoism, fused it into a single system, created the original School

 

http://thetaobums.co...chool/?p=568667

[alchemist]

Taoist Texts: have you read that Wu Chongxu is from Dragon Gate lineage? You have. But still you state that he created a school 'from texts'. So you are simply distorting the meaning of what you read.

Wu Chongxu used texts, but he also had a proper Daoist lineage.

[Taoist Texts]

This thread is a thinly disguised advertisement and propaganda for these shysters patent system. Avoid.

 

Amen to that, brother.

[joeblast]

no crap qigong is not congruent with neigong.

 

does qigong facilitate aspects of neigong? you'd best come up with a good explanation if you think it doesnt.

[goldisheavy]

Well, you can blame the Patriarchs of Daoism. Maybe they were not as smart as you are.

BR

 

On the contrary, the patriarchs and me were not as smart as you are, with all your secret methods.

[goldisheavy]

S. Mitchell's translation of Daodejing, chapter 20:

 

Stop thinking, and end your problems.
What difference between yes and no?
What difference between success and failure?
Must you value what others value,
avoid what others avoid?
How ridiculous!

Other people are excited,
as though they were at a parade.
I alone don't care,
I alone am expressionless,
like an infant before it can smile.

Other people have what they need;
I alone possess nothing.
I alone drift about,
like someone without a home.
I am like an idiot, my mind is so empty.

Other people are bright;
I alone am dark.
Other people are sharper;
I alone am dull.
Other people have a purpose;
I alone don't know.
I drift like a wave on the ocean,
I blow as aimless as the wind.

I am different from ordinary people.
I drink from the Great Mother's breasts.

S. Mitchell's translation of Daodejing, chapter 66:

 

All streams flow to the sea
because it is lower than they are.
Humility gives it its power.

If you want to govern the people,
you must place yourself below them.
If you want to lead the people,
you must learn how to follow them.

The Master is above the people,
and no one feels oppressed.
She goes ahead of the people,
and no one feels manipulated.
The whole world is grateful to her.
Because she competes with no one,
no one can compete with her.

[opendao]

Yes, never written down. In person, absolutely.

 

 

 

 

Soooo, somebody explained the teachings in detail. In a text. He did it based on other texts. Then he created a school. From the texts. Then someone allegedly from that school says 'The most important points of Neidan are not writen down'.

 

yeah, whatev.

 

Methods were not written, that's what was told but you don't see it. "Important points" were written and there is nothing to argue here. And for sure you know so little, even about Wu Chongxu, so it's better not to reveal your ignorance. The school was created not based on any texts, but on the direct transmission from Longmen, plus Wu Chongxu has learnt methods from _many_ other schools, directly of course, not from texts as you claim in your ignorance.

[opendao]

no crap qigong is not congruent with neigong.

 

does qigong facilitate aspects of neigong? you'd best come up with a good explanation if you think it doesnt.

 

there is no single word here about "neigong".

 

In Neidan qigong is not considered to be necessary to facilitate the process. There are some preliminary exercises for that but they are based not on qigong principles.

[opendao]

This thread is a thinly disguised advertisement and propaganda for these shysters patent system. Avoid.

 

When you use such words, you need to prove them.

 

This thread is about classical text respected in the Neidan tradition. So, mr guru, please continue your thick thought and say that Lu Dongbin "disguisedly propagandises his shysters patent system"... Then prove it. Don't forget to reveal your position in Neidan, your lineage and so on. Same question for other critics.

 

That's so interesting to watch how people react on true words about false methods ... They have nothing to say, just emotions start to jump high and words go out with no control.

Edited August 6, 2014 by opendao

[Taoist Texts]

(Translated from Russian, original Chinese-to-Russian translation by D.A. Artemiev.)

 

Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan: "Why is Great Dao difficult to understand and realize?"

 

Zhongli Quan answered: "Because false methods

 

These are such methods as:

1. Fasting.

2. Starvation.

3. Gathering of qi.

4. Saliva swallowing.

5. Sexual abstinence.

6. Forgoing tastes.

7. Chan meditation.

8. Silence.

9. Awareness.

10. The Art of the inner chambers.

11. Inhaling much, exhaling little.

12. Maintaining purity.

13. Quieting (thoughts stopping).

14. Avoiding fatigue.

15. Opening of the heads crown.

16. Puckering genitals into ones body.

17. Symptoms disappearance.

18. Canons reading and recitation.

19. Outer alchemy.

20. Breathe restraining.

21. Dao Yin practices.

22. Tu Na gymnastics.

 

 

 

 

Our school ... kept all the 3 primordial elixir methods (i.e. single, pair perfection and external alchemy),

http://www.all-dao.com/ (THE GREAT TAO GOLDEN ELIXIR SCHOOL OF WU CHUNG-XU – LIU HUA-YANG)

 

very prudent of them to keep the false number 10 and the false number 19, aint it? Not all eggs in one basket, something will work out. May be. Wait, do they decry 10 and 19 as false here, but boast of them as true there? Yes, siree, thats what they do.

[opendao]

very prudent of them to keep the false number 10 and the false number 19, aint it? Not all eggs in one basket, something will work out. May be. Wait, do they decry 10 and 19 as false here, but boast of them as true there? Yes, siree, thats what they do.

 

Pointless. You obviously don't know the difference and rely just on names in 2 different texts written in different times by different people.

 

Read the text, it clearly states what the author meant to say:

 

Practice the art of inner chambers, but this is just a lower cultivation method of the fate - ming.

...

Assuming Kan to be lead, and Li to be mercury is it possible to prolong the life?

 

Now it's your turn: find in Wu-Liu texts what they consider as "pair perfection" and "external alchemy".

 

Only then you can compare and make any conclusions.

[alchemist]

no crap qigong is not congruent with neigong.

 

does qigong facilitate aspects of neigong? you'd best come up with a good explanation if you think it doesnt.

Your question is unrelated to the topic. If you read the original text, there are no such words as 'qigong' or 'neigong' there.

BR

[alchemist]

 

On the contrary, the patriarchs and me were not as smart as you are, with all your secret methods.

I am just retranslating their words. Which you find 'silly'.

BR

[alchemist]

S. Mitchell's translation of Daodejing, chapter 20:

 

 

 

S. Mitchell's translation of Daodejing, chapter 66:

 

One can find anything he wants to find in various translations of Daodejing.

BR

Edited August 7, 2014 by alchemist

[alchemist]

 

 

 

 

very prudent of them to keep the false number 10 and the false number 19, aint it? Not all eggs in one basket, something will work out. May be. Wait, do they decry 10 and 19 as false here, but boast of them as true there? Yes, siree, thats what they do.

Keep on trolling, right?

Ok, there is a difference in terminology between different authors and schools. There is no sense in comparing the terms of Lu Dongbin and Wuliupai.

And 'pair perfection' and 'inner chambers' are simply different things with also different names.

Anything else to say?

[Taoist Texts]

no crap qigong is not congruent with neigong.

 

does qigong facilitate aspects of neigong? you'd best come up with a good explanation if you think it doesnt.

 

The sales reps have no explanations, just cue cards.

[opendao]

The sales reps have no explanations, just cue cards.

 

Oh, I didn't recognize you before under your new name.

It's so much easier to release negative emotions anonymously, isn't it?

 

No school, no name, nobody knows you, nobody takes you seriously. Sweet.

 

p.s. And stop saying that venerable Lu was a sales rep. He had another good profession.

[Apech]

--- Moderator message ---

 

We've had a number of reports from this thread around trolling. They focus on disputes over schools of practice and disagreements about correct practice and the legitimacy of certain schools. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other. However, please avoid anything that looks or sounds like a personal attack and repetitive negative comments which are not backed by some kind of reasoned argument. Be mindful of the rules here about insults, belittling others and trolling.

 

--- Moderator Message Ends ---

[Marblehead]

And I have not been following this thread. My apologies.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

Yeah, I remember why I don't follow threads like this: They remind me of the Baptist preacher who came by my house and told me that I was going to hell if I did not accept Jesus as my saviour. I told him that he could go to hell right now.

 

We each have our own path to travel, our own journey to make. There is no destination. There is no right way; only ways that work for us.

 

It's fine to support our own path and the reasons why we walk that path. But to say that our path is the only right path is only asking for an arguement. That's because there are so many right paths.

 

Personally, I don't even have a path. That's another reason why I don't follow threads such as this one. How I live is good for me. But it might not work for anyone else.

 

Sure, we can talk about our path. We can talk about the benefits we have gained from following our path. But let's not be doing the "my way is the only way" shit. It gets so boring and it ruffles too many feathers.

 

 

Anyhow, not only do I wish Y'all Peace & Contentment, I will also here wish Y'all immortality.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Marblehead

[alchemist]

Yeah, I remember why I don't follow threads like this: They remind me of the Baptist preacher who came by my house and told me that I was going to hell if I did not accept Jesus as my saviour. I told him that he could go to hell right now.

I think I must argue.

First of all, nobody here comes to anyone's house, so this comparison is incorrect. Anyone is free to read or ignore this topic.

Second, Lu Dongbin is one of the most famous Daoist Patriarchs, and this is a Daoist forum, isn't it?

Third, nobody states there is only one right way to go. Yes, the Patriarchs didn’t spare anyone’s feelings, but if you read their words with attention, even they don’t sate that some other way is ‘bad’. They only indicate that Great Dao (neidan) is not identical to the minor schools. And I also want to add that there is definitely more than one school that still has the methods of neidan.

One can go any way he wants, but he result depends on the way he goes. That’s all.

BR

Edited August 8, 2014 by alchemist

[Brian]

You're gonna argue with someone about what they are reminded of?

 

Curious.

[Marblehead]

Okay. Fair response and I will speak to it.

I think I must argue.

No problem. We each have our own understandings.

 

First of all, nothing here comes to anyone's house, so this comparison is incorrect. Anyone is free to read or ignore this topic.

This is true. However, those who do participate in these threads do so for the purpose of either helping others or to gain knowledge for their own journey.

 

To constantly hear members argue about which way is the "right" way gets boring very fast. And worst of all, no one gains anything.

 

I have said before, although not here on this board, don't tell me about all your doubts, tell me something you believe in.

 

And yes, this is a second home for many members. Not only for the friendship but the potential knowledge and wisdom to be gained.

 

Second, Lu Dongbin is one of the most famous Daoist Patriarchs, and this is a Daoist forum, isn't it?

I have no knowledge of who Lu Dongbin is or was or will be. Apparently (s)he isn't all that well known.

 

Yes, this is a Taoist board and yes, this thread is in the "Taoist Discussions" forum. Therefore we talk about Taoism, all inclusive, not just one school.

 

But I don't recall in my above post that I was in favor of one path over another so defending Lu Dongbin was not necessary.

 

 

Third, nobody states there is only one right way to go. Yes, the Patriarchs didn’t spare anyone’s feelings, but if you read their words with attention, even they don’t sate that some other way is ‘bad’. They only indicate that Great Dao (neidan) is not identical to the minor schools. And I also want to add that there is definitely more than one school that still has the methods of neidan.

I have never seen anything in the TTC that speaks to "Great Dao". Yes, Lao Tzu did at one place label Tao "Great". But he was not differentiating between Tao, that is everything in the universe, and a "Great Dao".

 

One can go any way he wants, but he result depends on the way he goes. That’s all.
BR

I do agree with this.

 

So again I will suggest that we should be talking about the benefits of the various paths and share our knowledge with others rather than arguing about which path is the better.

 

BTW All paths lead to physical death. How long we wish to postpone this will determine which path we should follow.

[alchemist]

I have no knowledge of who Lu Dongbin is or was or will be. Apparently (s)he isn't all that well known.

Ah, I see. That looks like the main communication problem. Lu Dongbin actually IS one of the most respected Patriarchs. He is also one of the 8 immortals (btw, Zhongli Quan, his teacher who is also mentioned here, too) and generally one of the most known Daoists in China:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lü_Dongbin

His disciple Wang Chongyang is a founder of Quanzhen school, the main official Daoist school in China (and Wang’s disciples are also founders of many other schools).

So Lu Dongbin is more or less the founder of Daoism as we know it.

BR

Edited August 7, 2014 by alchemist

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Your last statement caused ne a chuckle. Tao was the founder of Taoism. Man just put their own words to what they saw as truth.

 

Yes, you and I are of different realms of Taoist thought. If Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu didn't say it then I will always question what is said. I used to get into agruements with Religious Taoists all the time for about the first many years I have been a member of this board.

 

I'm trying to be more mellow.

 

I have nothing against Alchemic Taoism. (I include Shamanic Taoism in that category.)

 

I'm posting in this thread because I wanted to mellow Apech's warning above. A thread getting reported by more than one member indicates that there is too much conflict going on and likely it has become personal.

 

But yes, if I were to regularly post in this thread we would have many misunderstandings as I lack the knowledge to efficiently discuss many things with you or anyone else who has more historical knowledge than I have.

 

Before I even considered calling myself a Taoist I did try reading Alchemic and Religious Taoist literature but came to the conclusion that neither of those paths were "right for me" so I returned to Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu only. Sure, I do consider what others have said when brought to my attention but if it is not consistent with what Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu said then I ask for more information and support for what has been said.

 

Anyhow, I will assume that you are comfortable with your path and those you honor. That's great. But let us not forget that there are others with different paths who feel just as you do.