*Veganism/ Vegetarianism (4* merged threads, so things can get confusing)

[Andrei]

Interesting

I find it strange some people can make the change so easily and succeed and others really struggle with it, not sure what is at play.

 

What you don't understand, and people in general is how the energy manifest inside their bodies with respect to their environment.

For your information, I tried all my life to become a "vegetarian" but with no success. I even moved to Vancouver with a milder climatic environment hoping that I would become eventually "fruitarian" or at least "vegetarian" but obviously for me there is more at play just "moral grounds" or "scientific proof".

[joeblast]

 

Hm?

meat's heavy - if you want to do superlatively long meditations, at some point it pretty much becomes requirement, lest you have too much stuff in your guts moving around. at some point it begins to detract from your meditation, as in, preventing you from going deeper. at that stage, lifestyle things become more impactful and noticed...

[nickyro]

In terms of vegetarianism in spiritual literature I have read a variety of view points, in some Tibetan paths meat is required at certain points of the path in order to create the tantric drops in the body. The Dalai Lama and many Tibetans are meat eaters and it doesn't interfere in their spiritual progress.

 

While Ramana Maharshi stressed the importance of the sattvic diet which includes no meat to create a sattvic mind which aids self enquiry towards awakening.

 

Gurdjieff said that if you have two communities or two countries living side by side and one of them is vegetarian and the other eats meat the meat eating community would inevitably end up dominating and controlling the vegetarian one.

 

Make of that what you will, I am not so much against eating meat but I am most against battery farming and such inhumane practises firstly because of the cruelty but also they are starting to find that it affects the genetics of the birds so that they are being born weak and lacking muscle and health, so long term it makes no sense in any way.

Very interesting.

I would like to add I am able to remain mainly Sattvic while eating meat.

Meat gains its tamasic quality when transformed/left over/frozen/conserved. But if eaten fresh and cooked with sattvic side dish then the overall meal will be sattvic. And one should not eat meat again when the previous one is not expelled from the body because the tamas will add up.

Thus you benefit from both qualities:

Etheric energy gained from fresh meat + Overall sattvic movement of energy (upward) = Sublimation

Edited August 5, 2014 by nickyro

[eye_of_the_storm]

meat's heavy - if you want to do superlatively long meditations, at some point it pretty much becomes requirement, lest you have too much stuff in your guts moving around. at some point it begins to detract from your meditation, as in, preventing you from going deeper. at that stage, lifestyle things become more impactful and noticed...

 

ah yes

 

I was Pescetarian for many years as said in the Meat + Jazz thread, I consumed fish rarely (social compromise at times)

 

Even with consuming fish there was an instant, noticeable drop in energetics/ clarity etc (heavy as you said)

 

Alcohol too, even small amounts

 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

You are saying that the Sattvic cancels out the Tamas...

Why not the Tamas cancelling out the Sattvic?

At the most you have neither gained or lost... neutral, one step forward, one step back.

I am always learning, just sharing what I have learned/ experienced so far.

In sharing I am learning too

[Green Tiger]

 

[joeblast]

once you get to the point where you are really able to qualitatively separate out what you are eating in "digestion analysis" so to speak (and sometimes its simply you being spoken to with little impetus from the awareness) then you really start being able to link the food quality and such to your meditative efforts - even things like "weight" and "inertia" and..."coefficients of friction"...

[nickyro]

Yes tamas definitely cancel sattvas.

My experience so far is that despite ingestion of meat, under certain circumstances, I still can have an upward flow of energy without creating lust or accretion of dense energy in the perineum while practicing retention or bramacharya.

Still not as sattvic as when I was vegetarian for sure, but I feel like I have way more impact on the "energy" side of cultivation while doing so.

Because meat has a disctinct caracteristic,unrelated to the gunas concept, I found it able to bring RAW energy (which you can dye, transmute into whatever you want with the gunas), instantly after consumption, I think this raw energy may be "jing".

I tried everything to give up meat (adding "root vegetables", or red ones, or tamasic vegetables as onions, for they are supposed to stimulate the lower chakras and nothing shared the same disctinct energetic effect, all they were able to do is to bring tamasic/sattvic vibration). I tried ginger and even the "trinity roots" recipe of yogi bajhan, but all it can do is dye a preexistent energy. I also tried ashwagandha and red ginseng.

 

Also we should not forget that a little bit of tamasic quality is needed for the body and the lower aspects of our psychism, one can become "too sattvic".

Edited August 5, 2014 by nickyro

[Andrei]

It is like in aerospace, you have lift force and weight force. If your lift force is higher than the weight then you go up, if your weight is higher than your lift you fall down. If they are balanced then you fly horizontally (you still need thrust force to be higher than friction force but that is another story).

 

Same is meat it is a ballast you need to keep you down here in this realm, to maintain on the same frequency with everybody else.

If you want to go up and never return, then it's easy don't eat anything and you'll see the heavens soon.

[Satya]

if someone doesnt eat meat, what should they make sure to get to replace it?

 

i know Zinc is a big one, maybe iron (idk), protein,

All you really need to supplement is b-12. That's pretty much it. We need a lot less protein than most people think, and you get a lot more protein from plants than most people think. I think that this is because of the residual ignorance from the old food pyramids of what was important (WAYYY more protein than they advise now). EVERYONE meat eaters and vegetarians should try and make sure they get some omega 3 in their diets. Flax oil, or, some supplement with DHA and EPA, which can be vegetarian.

[MooNiNite]

All you really need to supplement is b-12. That's pretty much it. We need a lot less protein than most people think, and you get a lot more protein from plants than most people think. I think that this is because of the residual ignorance from the old food pyramids of what was important (WAYYY more protein than they advise now). EVERYONE meat eaters and vegetarians should try and make sure they get some omega 3 in their diets. Flax oil, or, some supplement with DHA and EPA, which can be vegetarian.

awesome advice

[liminal_luke]

At the moment there are three separate threads in the opening page for members to weigh in on the benefits, or lack thereof, of vegetarianism in it's various forms. In my opinion, that's two too many. Maybe even three too many but whose counting.

 

Any objections to limiting the debate over meat to a single thread?

 

Liminal

[eye_of_the_storm]

if someone doesnt eat meat, what should they make sure to get to replace it?

 

i know Zinc is a big one, maybe iron (idk), protein,

 

Plant-based sources of zinc.

 

Beans/Legumes, including: black beans, chickpeas, kidney beans, navy beans, pinto beans, Romano beans, etc.

Beets and beet greens

Brazil nuts (other nuts too but Brazils contain higher amounts)

Carrots

Dark leafy green vegetables

Nuts and nut butters

Onions

Peas

Pumpkin seeds

Seeds like pumpkin and sunflower seeds

Sprouts

 

Read more: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/top-vegan-sources-of-immune-boosting-zinc.html#ixzz39ZFei7iX

 

Iron

 

http://bembu.com/iron-rich-foods-for-vegetarians-and-vegans

 

Calcium

 

http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/factsheets/calciumfactsheet.html

 

 

25 Vegan Sources for Calcium

1. Kale (1 cup contains 180 mg)

2. Collard Greens (1 cup contains over 350 mg)

3. Blackstrap Molasses (2 tablespoons contains 400 mg)

4. Tempeh (1 cup contains 215 mg)

5. Turnip Greens (1 cup contains 250 mg)

6. Fortified non-dairy milk (1 cup contains 200-300 mg)

7. Hemp milk (1 cup contains 460 mg)

8. Fortified orange juice (1 cup contains 300 mg)

9. Tahini (2 tablespoons contains 130 mg)

10. Almond butter (2 tablespoons contains 85 mg)

11. Great northern beans (1 cup contains 120 mg)

12. Soybeans (1 cup contains 175 mg)

13. Broccoli (1 cup contains 95 mg)

14. Raw fennel (1 medium bulb contains 115 mg)

15. Blackberries (1 cup contains 40 mg)

16. Black Currants (1 cup contains 62 mg)

17. Oranges (1 orange contains between 50 and 60 mg)

18. Dried apricots (1/2 cup contains 35 mg)

19. Figs (1/2 cup contains 120 mg)

20. Dates (1/2 cup contains 35 mg)

21. Artichoke (1 medium artichoke contains 55 mg)

22. Roasted sesame seeds (1 oz. contains 35 mg)

23. Adzuki beans (1 cup contains 65 mg)

24. Navy beans (1 cup contains 125 mg)

25. Amaranth (1 cup contains 275 mg)

Read more: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/25-vegan-sources-for-calcium.html#ixzz39ZHkKNMu

 

 

 

http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/factsheets/iron.html

Edited August 6, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

https://cronometer.com/

^ free website that calculates daily nutrient intake, very handy + cool to see

Used it a few times just to get a visual, no concern of missing any essential nutrients always maxing out ++++++

You can always get blood tests to be 100% sure, there are many videos on YouTube now of vegans posting their blood test results in order to prove to themselves + others that the diet works and is optimal.

[eye_of_the_storm]

At the moment there are three separate threads in the opening page for members to weigh in on the benefits, or lack thereof, of vegetarianism in it's various forms. In my opinion, that's two too many. Maybe even three too many but whose counting.

 

Any objections to limiting the debate over meat to a single thread?

 

Liminal

 

These are different aspects and approaches to the lifestyle.

 

Emotional, Scientific + Comedic (which appeal to different people)

 

Otherwise why not condense all Taoist or Buddhist threads into one?

 

Information about these philosophies crosses over frequently

 

(Vegetarianism/Veganism is also part of Taoist and Buddhist thought + many other spiritual practices)

Edited August 6, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

That was funny Green Tiger, Cheers

[eye_of_the_storm]

No thanks Freud

[eye_of_the_storm]

The first of the Three Treasures is ci (Chinese: 慈; pinyin: cí; Wade–Giles: tz'u; literally: "compassion, tenderness, love, mercy, kindness, gentleness, benevolence"), which is also a Classical Chinese term for "mother" (with "tender love, nurturing " semantic associations). Tao Te Ching chapters 18 and 19 parallel ci ("parental love") with xiao (孝 "filial love; filial piety"). Wing-tsit Chan (1963:219) believes "the first is the most important" of the Three Treasures, and compares ci with Confucianist ren (仁 "humaneness; benevolence")

 

Three Treasures (Taoism) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Treasures_%28Taoism%29

 

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

In Shaolin Temple we have a saying; All living creatures are one with the Tao(Dao). Life sustains life, and all living creatures need nourishment, yet with wisdom the body learns to sustain in ways that all may live.

 

 

To extinguish life, is to extinguish light. In our Temple we light candles, and our Temples become brighter. We increase the light. If you extinguish light/life, your Temples become darker. Posted by: Tabuism | April 27, 2012 at 02:37 PM

[liminal_luke]

White Wolf,

 

We get it. You think people shouldn't eat meat. And you're passionate enough to tailor make separate pro-veggie threads for different personality types: science nerds, health nuts, visually-oriented types who respond viscerally to graphic images of slaughter, and on it goes. You can do this but I really really hope you won't. I think it takes away from the board as a whole.

 

Liminal

[eye_of_the_storm]

I won't be creating any more such threads in the near future (6 months), beyond that I am unsure

Edited August 6, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[liminal_luke]

Wow, thanks White Wolf. I do agree that vegetarianism is an appropriate and worthy topic of discussion. I just think the board works better when no one subject has so many threads that other topics are crowded out. Thanks again.

 

Liminal

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 5, 2015 by Flolfolil

[eye_of_the_storm]

i found four threads about this and merged them all into this one. If whitewolf wants me to change the thread title to reflect this that is okay, but i will continue to merge all of the "meat is bad m'kay" threads they make into this one

 

Nice bias.

 

"moderation" hm?

 

Things are pretty confusing now, responses not lining up etc.

 

Couldn't have messed things up any better

Edited August 7, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Sometimes life is a little more challenging than other times.

 

I understand your point but I also agree with what Flolfolil did.

 

No meat for supper last night. But yeah, there was cheese and eggs. (Nothing had to be killed to get those.)