Sex

[Anoesjka]

 

In ancient Greece, people were said to have two minds,...the masculine mind was psyche,...the feminine mind, thymos.

 

Go figure!

 

Today we have them too. To combine those two is the sacred marriage. The love we seek in the opposite gender, is in actuality the longing for inner completeness. We need to bridge the two sides of ourselves. But that's just an opinion I have.

[Stosh]

Psyche was the tripartite nature of the soul , Thumos ( thymos) was one of the steeds , and was essential for developing manliness,source of anger and drive - the other steed was appetite and the charioteer of the three aspects of psyche was reason ,,

 

Psyche was also the wife of eros but thats a different paradigm.

 

If one wants to make analogies

Ego the charioteer of reason

restrains appetite of ID

and the drive of Superego ( thymos)

The combination of which is psyche

Edited August 7, 2014 by Stosh

[GrandmasterP]

That dude Russell in the OP seemed to be down on celibacy.

What were his dates?

If early, he could be an encoded homophobe or even a closeted gay man.

There was a lot of that about in the bad old days.

IMO celibacy isn't 'abnormal' it's just unusual and unnecessary in adults, if it's unwanted.

Edited August 7, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[GrandmasterP]

Is it this guy...

1871-1963

 

Quote.......

 

University of Science and Philosophy

In 1949, Russell leased American millionaire James Dooleys vacant mansion Swannanoa, Nelson County, Virginia, shown adjacent, and therein formed what seems to have been a half sex cult half philosophy retreat for men. Writer A.O. Pollard (1983), in retrospect, describes the school as such: [3]

 

During this period, the retreat took in a series of feminine acolytes who, to help support the institute, gave tours of the mansion and grounds. It became a right-of-passage for the region's young men to view the lasses, as the diaphanous gowns they wore made quite evident that the mountain top location was often a chilly clime.

Edited August 7, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

My read is that he had inadequacy issues and wanted to take a power position by getting miixed up in these other folks sex lives,, i have no idea if thats true or not , the whole thing may just have been lucrative.

[Nungali]

Very close friend of mine is asexual.

He's in his 60's, has never had sex and has never had any interest in it.

Some folks just plain refuse to believe this is even possible... heheh.

 

There is a lot to fascinate, interest and amuse someone in life without sex .... just sayin'.

[GrandmasterP]

My read is that he had inadequacy issues and wanted to take a power position by getting miixed up in these other folks sex lives,, i have no idea if thats true or not , the whole thing may just have been lucrative.

 

Only in America eh?

 

[Stosh]

Only in America eh?

Oh c'mon, yall have your share of schemers Im sure

[GrandmasterP]

There are counties in some US states that are bigger than England.

So, no... Not to the same extent, we don't.

Hence the comment.

That 'university' was up and running until relatively recently and is now online according to the source of the quote I posted.

Those tours they ran sounded like some sort of fun.

No wonder they were popular.

 

Edited August 7, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Nungali]

Like this post

 

 

 

Psyche was the tripartite nature of the soul , Thumos ( thymos) was one of the steeds , and was essential for developing manliness,source of anger and drive - the other steed was appetite and the charioteer of the three aspects of psyche was reason ,,

 

Psyche was also the wife of eros but thats a different paradigm.

 

If one wants to make analogies

Ego the charioteer of reason

restrains appetite of ID

and the drive of Superego ( thymos)

The combination of which is psyche

 

I see it a little different though, in my astro psychological map:

 

I group the inner planets in an upright triangle around the Moon, making a personal planetary realm triangle that links 'below' via the persona with the physical and socio-cultural environment (for a feed-back experience loop ) and links from the Moon, 'regulated' by these three up into the Sun, to make a Sun / Moon, conscious / unconscious link.

 

Blending this map with what you outline we have Mars; Thumos " a Greek word expressing the concept of "spiritedness" (as in "spirited stallion" or "spirited debate"). The word indicates a physical association with breath or blood . The word is also used to express the human desire for recognition." (All Indications of Mars, and of the activation of this psychological drive, flushed features, increase in breath, relating to heat - the 'lower' 'male' part of the psyche relating to psychological drives).

 

" It should not be confused with the similar Greek word θυμός, which means "anger" (the two words differ in the intonation)." ( Anger is result of overactivation of this sphere, the polarities are also a reflection of the fight / flight reaction ; dominate / submit. They both come from the same psyche source and word.

 

"Plato's Phaedrus and his later work The Republic discuss thumos as one of the three constituent parts of the human psyche. In the Phaedrus, Plato depicts logos as a charioteer driving the two horses eros and thumos (i.e. erotic love and spiritedness are to be guided by logos)." - Logos is Mercury in the astrological psyche, the mediator between the two drives along the base line of the triangle with Mars and Venus either side. Mercury, at the apex, links Sun and Moon (Psyche) or consciousness and soul; Mercury is the closest planet to the Sun and his messenger and is also, in the role of psychopomp, able to traverse the underworld ( the inner planets, the unconscious , and the base psychological drives and desires - Id ) .

 

"In the Republic (Book IV) soul ... becomes divided intonous ("intellect"), thumos ("passion"), and epithumia ("appetite"”). To its appetitive part are ascribed bodily desires; thumos is the emotional element in virtue of which we feel anger, fear, etc.; nous is (or should be) the controlling part which subjugates the appetites with the help of thumos."

 

Here, I vary, and attribute epithumia to Venus, in her aspects of desire, passion, the Venusian passions, etc. Intellect / Mercury is regulated in that sphere but the 'subjugation' comes from outside with 'above' feedback from a similar higher octave triangle above with the outer and transpersonal planets, being a reflection ; Mars Venus Mercury ; Pluto Neptune Uranus (which might have been a tad difficult for the ancient Greeks to work out). Also ; " The appetitive or epithymetikon (from epithymia) is the part of the soul by which we experience carnal erotic love, "

 

This transpersonal realm of influence is where feedback from the inner and personal psyche circulate and feedback down as 'super-ego' influences to modify the personal psyche, and its extension into the socio-cultural environment (through a third 'gateway' triangle of a Saturn Jupiter 'valve' regulated by Chiron- the healer) .

 

.... So I cant see the drive of the Superego as being centred in thymos ... it influences thymos.

 

Perhaps for the Greek soldier who lives in thymos and has replaced his regulating Mercury / Nous, with a higher form of Mars (like the soldier's commander ? ) .

 

Now I am using 4 principles and Plato 3, but the 3 in a triangle I see as implying a 4th internal principle (like most systems of 3 do) one could even slot this phrase in - from the descriptions of the 3 Gunas : “The World deluded by these Three Gunas does not know Me: Who is beyond these Gunas and imperishable.” and from the Rite of Jupiter : " irreconcilable, my children, how shall ye partake of the Banquet of Jupiter, or come to the centre of the wheel? For this is the secret of Jupiter, that He who created you is in each of you, yet apart from all; before Him ye are equal, revolving in Time and in Space; but he is unmoved and within."

 

I have taken this model of triangular force with a central (and occulted) force .... (also represented by the eye in the triangle) and triangulated that ( three triangles on top of each other) to make my astro psychological map. Perhaps the 4th principle - Moon - is represented by the Chariot ?

 

I believe without understanding these forces and their interplay and regulation in oneself and others , one wont be having as clear a relationship (with anything , actually) as one could have ... and, contrary to some beliefs. that is a prerequisite to any sexual tantric workings ... other wise they will be plagued by incidents and forces arising from these lower realms, attachments, desires, love wishes, anger, possessions, wanted to please society and not break taboos, etc.

 

[ Quotations from Wiki ]

[Vmarco]

Psyche was the tripartite nature of the soul , Thumos ( thymos) was one of the steeds , and was essential for developing manliness,source of anger and drive - the other steed was appetite and the charioteer of the three aspects of psyche was reason ,,

 

 

I've noticed that in today's history, the Greek psyche has become the "higher mind," whereas in ancient Greece itself, the psyche was the lower mind,...just as in other ancient cultures.

 

When the Greeks spoke of the Higher Mind, they pointed to the chest and said thymos,...the thymos is the seat of gnowledge. Gnowledge (Heart Mind) is a direct threat to the faith-based "book religions." Over the portico of the Temple of Delphi it is written "Gnothi Seauton"....Gnow Thyself. But religion has altered this to say Know Thyself,...which is not the same. Knowledge comes from psyche, the Head Mind.

 

In the sun and Krst philosophies of Egypt, the heart-thymos was revered, whereas the brain-psyche was considered worthless. In the mummification process, the heart was preserved, but the cerebral gray matter was sucked out and discarded. Like Tantra, Buddhism, and the Maya of Mesoamerica, the Egyptians seem to have been aware that the head was the vessel for the lowest consciousness, but through the heart came the highest consciousness. Today’s object-ive science considers such ideas nonsense, and disregard for the brain misguided. Yet evidence clearly shows that the Egyptians had an intimate knowledge of brain functions, for example that the left cerebral hemisphere controls the right side of the body.

 

Of course, a prudent person would keep in mind that today's society is a cerebral-centric one,...a society with atrophied thymus glands. So it is like in the Valley of the Blind, where the one-eyed princess is treated for her illness.

 

But who is the ill one? Ironically, many today BELIEVE they are in touch with their heart, when in fact, their faith-based indoctrinations are veils which obscure the heart. Following the chronology of history, book religions are an underlying cause of the atrophy of the thymus gland, and the atrophy of the thymus gland removes our ability to have an harmonious physiology where cancer cannot take hold. Cancer is about "individuality." An individual, rogue cell that does not want to be in harmony with the whole.

[Vmarco]

Is it this guy...

1871-1963

 

Quote.......

 

University of Science and Philosophy

In 1949, Russell leased American millionaire James Dooleys vacant mansion Swannanoa, Nelson County, Virginia, shown adjacent, and therein formed what seems to have been a half sex cult half philosophy retreat for men. Writer A.O. Pollard (1983), in retrospect, describes the school as such: [3]

 

During this period, the retreat took in a series of feminine acolytes who, to help support the institute, gave tours of the mansion and grounds. It became a right-of-passage for the region's young men to view the lasses, as the diaphanous gowns they wore made quite evident that the mountain top location was often a chilly clime.

That looks like a pretty lame bio from a jealous Christian. I believe that Russell married the year that title above was written,...he was in his seventies.

 

A more dependable description of Walter Russell could be gleaned from Nikola Tesla, the fellow who invented the electric motor, fluorescent lighting, devices for x-rays, ionized gases, and charged particle beams, etc, etc. called Walter Russell the Leonardo DaVinci of the 20th century. Even Tesla was blown away by Russell's works, although he added that it may be a thousand years before people will understand them.

 

Russell's book The Secret of Light is advanced Taoism.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I've noticed that in today's history, the Greek psyche has become the "higher mind," whereas in ancient Greece itself, the psyche was the lower mind,...just as in other ancient cultures.

When the Greeks spoke of the Higher Mind, they pointed to the chest and said thymos,...the thymos is the seat of gnowledge. Gnowledge (Heart Mind) is a direct threat to the faith-based "book religions." Over the portico of the Temple of Delphi it is written "Gnothi Seauton"....Gnow Thyself. But religion has altered this to say Know Thyself,...which is not the same. Knowledge comes from psyche, the Head Mind.

In the sun and Krst philosophies of Egypt, the heart-thymos was revered, whereas the brain-psyche was considered worthless. In the mummification process, the heart was preserved, but the cerebral gray matter was sucked out and discarded. Like Tantra, Buddhism, and the Maya of Mesoamerica, the Egyptians seem to have been aware that the head was the vessel for the lowest consciousness, but through the heart came the highest consciousness. Today’s object-ive science considers such ideas nonsense, and disregard for the brain misguided. Yet evidence clearly shows that the Egyptians had an intimate knowledge of brain functions, for example that the left cerebral hemisphere controls the right side of the body.

Of course, a prudent person would keep in mind that today's society is a cerebral-centric one,...a society with atrophied thymus glands. So it is like in the Valley of the Blind, where the one-eyed princess is treated for her illness.

But who is the ill one? Ironically, many today BELIEVE they are in touch with their heart, when in fact, their faith-based indoctrinations are veils which obscure the heart. Following the chronology of history, book religions are an underlying cause of the atrophy of the thymus gland, and the atrophy of the thymus gland removes our ability to have an harmonious physiology where cancer cannot take hold. Cancer is about "individuality." An individual, rogue cell that does not want to be in harmony with the whole.

[Stosh]

I've noticed that in today's history, the Greek psyche has become the "higher mind," whereas in ancient Greece itself, the psyche was the lower mind,...just as in other ancient cultures.

Well I never used the term higher mind , nor lower mind ,

What I was ,and am still ,and am still saying ,is that the mind was considered tripartite, not dualistic ,

and that Thumos wasnt considered feminine , it was considered essential to developed masculinity ,

and that psyche wasnt considered masculine but rather it was the composite.

Thats the standard standing opinion on the subject.

 

I can see that you just wont drop the imposition of a dualist schema on the subject ,

nor admit the error about masculinity vs femininity as applied to the greek model in post 16.

Which I think you could do , without destroying your larger point,

since neither of us are old enough to have been there.

 

Egypt I didnt address ,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2014 by Stosh

[eye_of_the_storm]

Well I never used the term higher mind , nor lower mind ,

What I was ,and am still ,and am still saying ,is that the mind was considered tripartite, not dualistic ,

and that Thumos wasnt considered feminine , it was considered essential to developed masculinity ,

and that psyche wasnt considered masculine but rather it was the composite.

Thats the standard standing opinion on the subject.

 

I can see that you just wont drop the imposition of a dualist schema on the subject ,

nor admit the error about masculinity vs femininity as applied to the greek model in post 16.

Which I think you could do , without destroying your larger point,

since neither of us are old enough to have been there.

 

Egypt I didnt address ,

 

Ah this seems closer to what I was trying to get at... ? hm

 

How did the Egyptians see things?

Edited August 8, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vmarco]

 

 

The above is a prototype of a personified Christ, overlaid with mostly made up stories of the notorious Yeshua [Jesus] the Notzri [Nazarite],...and built upon the image of Serapis.

 

The historical Jesus/Yeshua as presented in the mostly fictional gospels, would have had short hair and a close-cut beard, as was the custom of the Jews and the command of Paul. For example, 1 Cor. 11:14 suggests that long hair brings shame to a man. More similar to the Sarapis model was the link that Jesus/Yeshua was a Nazarite, like the Old Testament Samson. Members of the religious sect of Nazarites were said not to cut their hair. In addition to their unkempt hair, the Nazarites also vowed to abstain from the manufacture or consumption of intoxicating beverages and from contact with the sick or corpses. Jesus/Yeshua being a Nazarite does not harmonize well with certain fabricated gospel tales, such as the ritual consumption of wine and the raising of the sick and dead, which were woven into the canonized version of the myth. This reminds me of the fanciful story of Mason Weems, invented after the death of George Washington, about George Washington and the cherry tree. Weems fabricated this story to broaden the character of America’s first president and to make him seem more appealing.

[Stosh]

That portion on the hair thing form 1 Cor 11:14, to some authorities was ,

inserted at a later date than that which is attributed to Paul.

[Vmarco]

Well I never used the term higher mind , nor lower mind ,

What I was ,and am still ,and am still saying ,is that the mind was considered tripartite, not dualistic ,

and that Thumos wasnt considered feminine , it was considered essential to developed masculinity ,

and that psyche wasnt considered masculine but rather it was the composite.

Thats the standard standing opinion on the subject.

 

I can see that you just wont drop the imposition of a dualist schema on the subject ,

nor admit the error about masculinity vs femininity as applied to the greek model in post 16.

Which I think you could do , without destroying your larger point,

since neither of us are old enough to have been there.

 

Egypt I didnt address ,

 

Sure,...I could be in error as to the suggestion that to the Greeks, thymos was more feminine in nature, and psyche more masculine. I'm not a Greek historian,...but a PhD Greek historian did introduce me to some of it. In ancient Greece, according to Greek historian/philosopher David Karnos, when one spoke of the higher mind (or as Socrates said, High spirit), one pointed to the chest and said, “Thymos.” Homer said, “Thymos is in our chests.” The other mind, the lower mind, the accumulating intellect, was known as psyche. From the higher mind arises gnowledge, whereas through the lower gray goo, one synthesizes knowledge. As mentioned, To Gnow Thyself, Gnothi Seauton, one can only proceed through the thymos. An enlivened thymus or heart chakra is one of three thresholds to the conscious realization of the fulcrum upon which duality effects its motion.

 

Thanks for your input and critique. It is best to discuss things on TTB, before one discusses them in a less spiritual group.

 

It very well could have been Socrates that initiated a more cerebral-centric view of gnowledge and thymos, vs. knowledge and psyche.

 

Gnothi Seauton was said to have been engraved on the Delphi temple two or hundred years before Socrates. The ancient Egyptians, Mesoamericans, and Bönpo/Buddhists all considered the Higher Mind to be associated with the chest. No cerebral-centric person can understand why that is,...IMO, only a person with an active thymus gland can.

 

Plato's tripartite theory that life has three parts is IMO irrelevant for any spiritual understanding,...which can be seen by the fact that no Greek of that era was known to have uncovered enlightenment. Which shouldn't suggest that any Greek of any era did uncover enlightenment.

[Vmarco]

That portion on the hair thing form 1 Cor 11:14, to some authorities was ,

inserted at a later date than that which is attributed to Paul.

Nope,...I never heard of that. I'm aware of many interpolations, but not 1 Cor 11:14

 

Many think Jesus would have looked something like this....a bit less Caucasian.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

[eye_of_the_storm]

.

Edited August 8, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Stosh]

Sure,...I could be in error as to the suggestion that to the Greeks, thymos was more feminine in nature, and psyche more masculine. I'm not a Greek historian,...but a PhD Greek historian did introduce me to some of it. In ancient Greece, according to Greek historian/philosopher David Karnos, when one spoke of the higher mind (or as Socrates said, High spirit), one pointed to the chest and said, “Thymos.” Homer said, “Thymos is in our chests.” The other mind, the lower mind, the accumulating intellect, was known as psyche. From the higher mind arises gnowledge, whereas through the lower gray goo, one synthesizes knowledge. As mentioned, To Gnow Thyself, Gnothi Seauton, one can only proceed through the thymos. An enlivened thymus or heart chakra is one of three thresholds to the conscious realization of the fulcrum upon which duality effects its motion.

 

Thanks for your input and critique. It is best to discuss things on TTB, before one discusses them in a less spiritual group.

 

It very well could have been Socrates that initiated a more cerebral-centric view of gnowledge and thymos, vs. knowledge and psyche.

 

Gnothi Seauton was said to have been engraved on the Delphi temple two or hundred years before Socrates. The ancient Egyptians, Mesoamericans, and Bönpo/Buddhists all considered the Higher Mind to be associated with the chest. No cerebral-centric person can understand why that is,...IMO, only a person with an active thymus gland can.

 

Plato's tripartite theory that life has three parts is IMO irrelevant for any spiritual understanding,...which can be seen by the fact that no Greek of that era was known to have uncovered enlightenment. Which shouldn't suggest that any Greek of any era did uncover enlightenment.

 

Its my opinion that there are some correlations between the preSocratic Greeks and the discussions of the Eastern Classic dao-ists. On that we might agree. But there are limits to the comparisons and I think its a major difference that the Greek trend was towards a tripartite paradigm. I dont want to venture more 'broadly' than that right now.

Much of the meat of what youre getting at is interesting, and I learn yet more as I fact check the Items I like best.

[Vmarco]

As I mentioned,...today's Jesus is more a physical prototype of Serapis

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis

 

As for some interesting facts about Serapis:

 

The Egypto-Greek Sarapis, whose devotees, according to Hadrian, called themselves Christians and bishops of Christ. Sarapians had temples in most of the major cities of the time, including Alexandria, Rome, and even Bithynia, where Pliny the Younger was governor at the beginning of the second century CE. Under Trajan (who was married to Pompeia Piso), Hadrian was governor of Syria. As every Bible hobbyist should know, as per Matthew 4:24, Jesus’ fame was said to reach throughout all of Syria, yet the evidence shows that no one there knew Jesus’ followers as Christians until well into the second century. Why was that?

 

Actually, the word Christos, referring to an “awakened one,” crept into 5th century BCE Greek subculture, and this word can be found in the works of classical writers, such as Aeschylus and Herodotus, the father of history.

[Stosh]

Nope,...I never heard of that. I'm aware of many interpolations, but not 1 Cor 11:14

 

Many think Jesus would have looked something like this....a bit less Caucasian.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/forensics/1282186

I saw that special when it initially came on the tube, I felt that the folks were doing the best they could but were making a lot of assumptions. Y'know, the arabic-semitic and native peoples of India etc are mostly all considered "Caucasian" as well , right? ( and probably most of the Egyptians as well )

Edited August 8, 2014 by Stosh

[Vmarco]

 

Jesus was from Galilee, good chance he was actually a Galatian/ Gaul/ Celt

 

+ the hair

 

http://jewsandjoes.com/is-it-wrong-for-men-to-have-long-hair-1-corinthians-11-14.html

 

No! Jesus was likely not from Galilee.

 

A Nazarite or Notzri, meaning consecrated, was a Jew who took the ascetic vow described in Numbers 6:1–21. Among famous Nazarites was James the Just, whom the Ebionites revered as the legitimate apostolic successor of the Nazarites. Jesus the Nazarite (not of Nazareth or Galilee).

 

The word scribe(s) is mentioned at least sixty-six times in the New Testament. Thus, repeatedly, what was not mentioned says much regarding the history of the invention of present-day Christianity. For instance, why was the capital of Galilee, Sepphoris, known as the ornament of Galilee, just four miles down the hill from the archeological site of Nazareth, not alluded to in the Gospels, although they all mention Nazareth? Could it be that the authors of the gospels were unaware that the city existed because Rome leveled it during the Jewish Revolt of 66–71 CE, some forty years after the Talmud’s Jesus was hanged for sedition? It is unlikely that Nazarites lived in Galilee, but were instead Jerusalemites.

 

Interestingly, in 1980 a tomb was uncovered in the Talpiot neighborhood of Jerusalem. Because of inscriptions on the ossuaries there, it was asked, "Is the Talpiot tomb the family tomb of Jesus of Nazareth?" A leading question that suggests with authority that Jesus was from Nazareth. Biblical scholars, who apparently cannot separate fact from devotion, answered no,..."Why would Jesus of Nazareth be buried in Jerusalem when his ancestral home was in Nazareth?" Why? Because Jesus was not a Nazarean, but a Nazarite. It is most likely that Nazareth did not exist at the time of Jesus, but grew out of a refugee camp from the survivors of Sepphoris.

 

When a documentary came out (2007) about the tomb, Biblical scholars attacked the producer as having no academic credibility to be presenting such a film, even though he never claimed to have such credentials. The documentary, The Jesus Tomb, was subsequently buried by those whose reputations and earnings depend on the Nazareth myth.

[Vmarco]

White Wolf Running On Air, on 08 Aug 2014 - 23:28, said:

 

Jesus was from Galilee, good chance he was actually a Galatian/ Gaul/ Celt

 

+ the hair

 

http://jewsandjoes.c...ians-11-14.html

.

 

 

Maybe Jesus belonged to the cult of Attis, whose priests were called Gallaens, and who strongly influenced the invention of modern Christianity. In fact, the Vatican, named for mons vaticanus or Vatican Hill, which antedates Christianity, was the place of worship of Cybele, and her fertility rites with her youthful lover Attis were performed on Vatican Hill. In other words, Vatican City sits atop the most sacred place of the Phrygian religion.