mYTHmAKER Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I am looking to buy a jian. There is a lot of differing opinion on whether the blade should be rigid or flexible to be able to stand on point. I wish to use it for taiji internal work As it is difficult to select online without actually handling in person it would be great if we shared. Weight of sword How it handles Balance Photos Source I am not interested is a sharp blade and practicing cutting on objects but others may be so feel free to share. Edited August 6, 2014 by mYTHmAKER 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted August 6, 2014 I know you've seen this, but for others, here is a great resource on the Jian: specifics, historically, and for training purposes. There are many on ebay, and f you watch the changing listings over time patterns emerge, and one can get a sense of value, etc. Some may be adequate for training, but unlikely to have highly refined balance points, might be heavy, hard to determine how stiff/flexible, etc. I'm also curious to hear from others' experience with Jians. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted August 6, 2014 I am looking to buy a jian. There is a lot of differing opinion on whether the blade should be rigid or flexible to be able to stand on point. As it is difficult to select online without actually handling in person it would be great if we shared. Weight of sword How it handles Balance Photos Source I am not interested is a sharp blade and practicing cutting on objects but others may be so feel free to share. Here's a good article written by my Sifu about the subject -- http://www.gbolarts.com/pages/notes_archive/notes-029.html He categorizes swords by blade categories (there are chinese names for these but I don't remember them anymore) --Yang (least flexible), Yin-Yang (moderately flexible) or Yin (very flexible). I have one Yang blade and another Yin-Yang blade. My Sifu uses a very Yin blade (almost like a belt). The Yin-Yang is best according to me, since the blade vibrates well. Good ones should vibrate almost throughout the length of the sword. Bad ones vibrate only half-way through the length (from tip). I've found good swords in San Francisco, where I keep traveling. There's a Martial Arts store (which unfortunately I heard closed down during the economic downturn of the past few years) - it was Brendan Lai's Martial Supplies. Good swords are hard to find and really good ones cost in thousands of dollars. Mine's pretty decent for the 60$ I paid for it, and the 80$ I paid to ship it to Chicago from San Fran. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted August 6, 2014 I said the same thing a while back, and one magically appeared for me heavy and yang, but the whole blade will vibrate, even though it is a little blade heavy (imho) good links cutting stuff....that's what the katana is for dange! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 6, 2014 I said the same thing a while back, and one magically appeared for me heavy and yang, but the whole blade will vibrate, even though it is a little blade heavy (imho) good links cutting stuff....that's what the katana is for dange! Could we see it and where did you get it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) a kind soul and good friend gaveth (dont mind my in progress cap job for the mixing board ) ...balance point, ~7 inches... Edited August 6, 2014 by joeblast 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 6, 2014 I am looking to buy a jian. There is a lot of differing opinion on whether the blade should be rigid or flexible to be able to stand on point. As it is difficult to select online without actually handling in person it would be great if we shared. Weight of sword How it handles Balance Photos Source I am not interested is a sharp blade and practicing cutting on objects but others may be so feel free to share. If you want it just for show performance, then, you want to get a flexible Tai Ji Jian(太極劍). For strength practice with Neigong experience, you probably would want a rigid one. The balance point should about 6 inches from the vicinity of the blade side of the handle. I own a slim one which is a Ba Gua Tai Chi Sword(八卦太極劍) shown, here, in the eighth figure down: http://www.wushukey.com/weapon02jian/wushu04taichijian.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) a kind soul and good friend gaveth (dont mind my in progress cap job for the mixing board ) ...balance point, ~7 inches... Nice. I believe this is it http://www.totalmartialartsupplies.com/ching-emperor-straight-sword A little oil and fine sand paper will clean up the blade Edited August 6, 2014 by mYTHmAKER Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 6, 2014 If you want it just for show performance, then, you want to get a flexible Tai Ji Jian(太極劍). For strength practice with Neigong experience, you probably would want a rigid one. The balance point should about 6 inches from the vicinity of the blade side of the handle. I own a slim one which is a Ba Gua Tai Chi Sword(八卦太極劍) shown, here, in the eighth figure down: http://www.wushukey.com/weapon02jian/wushu04taichijian.htm I want it for internal work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I want it for internal work. Then you want a rigid Ba Gua Tai Ji sword like the one I have. Edited August 7, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Here's a flexible (semi-, technically?) jian suitable for internal work as well as external -- e.g. for slicing arrogant dragons -- not piercing through but separating between their scales. This one is exactly like what I got. It's a Tang jian, i.e. part of the blade protrudes into the hilt. I don't know much but I'm thinking this feature may be part of what facilitates the even smooth quiver through the whole length of the blade -- which clearly extends into the arm and can be felt in the bones too. Pzzzz...zzzzap...pzzzz... very nice. The balance point is at the width of your hand from the guard. Also, this is a light jian, but not flimsy in the least. Edited August 12, 2014 by Taomeow 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 7, 2014 I want it for internal work. Do you have any idea, in general, how to get into it with a sword.....??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Do you have any idea, in general, how to get into it with a sword.....??? indeed i do Down my throat LOL Edited August 7, 2014 by mYTHmAKER 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted August 7, 2014 Wow that is a whole new level of Internal, mYTHmAKER! I remember seeing a sword swallower at a medieval fair when I was a child. His finale was to bring up a damsel and have her slide a stack of 3-5 swords down his throat as he bent over. More swords == higher level of immortality? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 7, 2014 Wow that is a whole new level of Internal, mYTHmAKER! I remember seeing a sword swallower at a medieval fair when I was a child. His finale was to bring up a damsel and have her slide a stack of 3-5 swords down his throat as he bent over. More swords == higher level of immortality? or lower level of mortality 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 7, 2014 indeed i do Down my throat LOL Please tell me how besides have it going down your throat...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted August 7, 2014 If he doesn't have it yet, he might want to experiment a bit before putting his ideas up before a peer review. On the other hand, it is possible he'd be open to hearing non-dogmatic suggestions. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 7, 2014 Do you have any idea, in general, how to get into it with a sword.....??? He has a teacher. That's the only way, really. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Yes, a teacher is God. I'm sure God will tell him what kind of sword to buy.....!!! Edited August 7, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 7, 2014 Please tell me how besides have it going down your throat...... Sword or no sword it is the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 7, 2014 Yes, a teacher is God. I'm sure God will tell him what kind of sword to buy.....!!! god spelled backwards is dog 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted August 7, 2014 I am looking to buy a jian. There is a lot of differing opinion on whether the blade should be rigid or flexible to be able to stand on point. I wish to use it for taiji internal work As it is difficult to select online without actually handling in person it would be great if we shared. Weight of sword How it handles Balance Photos Source I am not interested is a sharp blade and practicing cutting on objects but others may be so feel free to share. I own a few jian. They vary in weight from 1.5 - 2.25 lbs. I prefer the balance point a few inches distal to the guard. But not all swords should balance at exactly the same point. Proper balance depends on the blade length, blade weight, handle length and weight, and the weight of the guard. For me, the ideal balance point is at or just proximal to the point on the blade where it pivots during a parry or circling motion. This is a good compromise between dexterity and cutting effectiveness. I do not like or use flexible swords. A poorly balanced sword feels much heavier than a heavy sword with proper balance. If you are inexperienced, I'd highly recommend starting with a lightweight metal or wooden jian. Most period swords were ~ 1.5 - 2 lbs but you would be surprised how heavy that can feel to a beginner after a half hour or more of practice, especially if the sword is not well balanced. Once you get a feel for the movements how to control with the wrist and waist, then you'll have a better idea of what you will be most comfortable with. To get a good sword that is comfortable, you really need to feel a few but, obviously, that's challenging. If you are just starting to learn the jian, I'd suggest a cheap light sword. Get something good later when you know what you want, especially if you're on a budget. Wood has advantages - less threatening in the park, easier to travel with, generally lighter, lower maintenance, safer... Metal is more realistic of course, but if it's not going to be sharpened anyway that doesn't matter much. Here's a great source for a wooden jian if you don't mind spending some real money: http://www.little-raven.com/RS/MA/Gim.html I have a Ming jian which is about 12 years old and has held up beautifully. Here's a great sword maker but I don't think they're currently accepting new orders: http://www.jin-shi.com/index.html Scott Rodell is a good resource but the modern Huanuo jian he sells is pretty heavy. Just my heavily biased opinions... YMMV 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Yes, a teacher is God. I'm sure God will tell him what kind of sword to buy.....!!! mYTHmAKER, on 06 Aug 2014 - 16:13, said: I want it for internal work. ChiDragon, on 07 Aug 2014 - 11:18, said: Do you have any idea, in general, how to get into it with a sword.....??? Taomeow responded: He has a teacher. ChiDragon responded with the above-quoted. Conclusion: Taomeow shouldn't have fed this insatiable troll. Edited August 8, 2014 by Taomeow 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daeluin Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) ChiDragon, I hear you are tired of people urging you towards a teacher. And it is fine if you don't want one. But it is still true that others may find use in one. Taomeow - your sharpness of intent is easily felt and reacted to! Edited August 8, 2014 by Daeluin 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mYTHmAKER Posted August 8, 2014 Taomeow - your sharpness of intent is easily felt and reacted to! like the blade of a sword 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
