Jian

[Marblehead]

"i like this and its on sale"

 

Yeah, looks like a pretty nice sword. And that is an excellent price for a full sword. I just recently paid $30 more than that for a short sword. (But then, it is Dasmascus steel so ...)

Edited August 11, 2014 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

I feel inclined to buy one of these plastic jobs just for the value of the description under the photos!

 

The Best Little Swords House in Texas

 

Sure. It would make for a good practice sword.

[dwai]

I think "floppy" and "flexible" are almost opposites. Floppy flops as it wants to. Flexible flexes as I want it to. (And if one wants a rigid weapon that dictates to you how to use it because it is... well... inflexible -- then why not play baseball instead of taiji? )

 

Seriously though, I've come to taiji from taekwondo, and a rigid sword feels sort of like a taekwondo punch, straightforward, it can aim where it aims and it hits or misses -- end of story. A taiji punch does not end where it lands, it can curve around its target and strike the next, and the next -- like water, it flexes toward where it wants to go. You can't really block it -- it can go around the block, over, under -- it does not necessarily need to break through. It is my impression -- but, like I said, my jian experience is too limited so it's no more than impression at this point -- that there's similar dynamics involved with a flexible blade that can not only pierce but slice wherever you want, at an angle you choose.

 

So... convinced yet?

I think the practical use of weapons (or not) in Tai Chi is to train the five elements. Sword is Water...empty hand is earth, staff is wood, spear is fire and broadsword is metal. The associated energetics then must try and express the elemental properties.

 

Depending on the type of material being used, a different "dimension" of energy must be projected into the weapon to extend one's awareness into the weapon/tip of weapon (HINT: a ting jin/tong jin reference that a certain "pesky" dragon can recirculate later as being his own concept).

 

I know this kind of talk makes many people roll their eyes, but I see this in practical with my Teacher (who walks the talk). As much as I would love to be reductionistic, I think its a fallacy to try reduce Tai Chi Chuan to fighting. It is far far more - and is as complex as the 10,000 things that rise from the interplay of yin and yang.

Edited August 11, 2014 by dwai

[Daeluin]

I've come across the idea that at a high enough level, one may simply pick up a stick, fill it with Qi, and it will not break when used as a sword in a fight. Or perhaps even one's sword hand used to project qi into the air, like a light saber. Hehehe. Just ideas, but I'm not one to rule anything out just because it sounds fantastic beyond my ability to comprehend.

 

Lost my hair-ties.... my hair kinda has a mind of it's own, and at least in the month of Leo I figured I'd let it do it's thing without forcing it back. But it's nice to have it held out of the way for class. Sometimes I can braid it back and it'll just stay like that, being thick and wavey.

 

Anyway... it occurred to me one might be able to use the above principle to make your hair do whatever you want. Crazy hair stylings without lots of artificial goups and sprays and ties. Sorry for the tangent.... though I suppose one could also form a Jian out of hair. Hey it could be like a flexy Jian OR a whip!

Edited August 11, 2014 by Daeluin

[Taomeow]

i like this and its on sale http://www.wle.com/products/W023HQ.html semi-flexible

 

made by the Shen family in Long chuan village.

 

Yup! That's where my jian comes from!

[Daeluin]

Ah.... the ebay sword I found has these fittings: http://www.wle.com/products/NineDragonSword.html

Though the blade is ~20 years old and folded steel. Probably about the same weight and length as the one listed there. But hilt and scabbard are copper, and the fittings are painted brass. The tang goes all the way through to the end of the pommel where it has been hot peened, snugly holding the handle assembly in place without screws. I also noticed there's some folded paper at the very bottom of the scabbard... can't get it out but it has chinese characters on it - can tell from the little bits sticking through the holes in the bottom fitting. Perhaps this contains info on the maker/family.... or maybe was just something at hand used to help the sword fit snuggly into the scabbard.

 

I wonder if the fittings are held close and only used by one family... or if some of them are shared. If the former it is possible I have a Shen blade as well. I'm told it was picked up by the buyer in Shanxi... long way from Long Quan, but also home to Mt Hua.

 

Looks like the other one is still up for sale on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/S312-HANDMADE-CHINESE-WUSHU-SWORD-SAMURAI-KATANA-COPPER-DRAGON-SHEATH-DAMASCUS-B/131261425168

Edited August 11, 2014 by Daeluin

[ChiDragon]

 

 

>*** Start Pedantic Interjection ***<

>* Not centripetal force, inertia. *<

>*** End Pedantic Interjection ***<

 

 

1. m is the mass of the moving sword

2. V is the velocity of the moving sword

3. r is your arm is the moment arm which is the distance betwee the your body and the centroid of the sword.

 

No.....???

 

No inertia.....??? How did the sword move then.......????? Isn't it moved by your arm causing the circular motion by the swing of the sword...???

 

@ joeblast....thanks....

Edited August 11, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

I think the practical use of weapons (or not) in Tai Chi is to train the five elements. Sword is Water...empty hand is earth, staff is wood, spear is fire and broadsword is metal. The associated energetics then must try and express the elemental properties.

 

Depending on the type of material being used, a different "dimension" of energy must be projected into the weapon to extend one's awareness into the weapon/tip of weapon (HINT: a ting jin/tong jin reference that a certain "pesky" dragon can recirculate later as being his own concept).

 

I know this kind of talk makes many people roll their eyes, but I see this in practical with my Teacher (who walks the talk). As much as I would love to be reductionistic, I think its a fallacy to try reduce Tai Chi Chuan to fighting. It is far far more - and is as complex as the 10,000 things that rise from the interplay of yin and yang.

 

I would surmise it depends on the moves you execute. Each weapon can represent each of the five phases, depending on what you're doing with it. The wuxing phases are primarily types and vectors of motion (and more, of course -- all phenomena ultimately arise from these, if you throw in the bagua directions and yin-yang, they pretty much describe everything that can happen to anything.)

 

The taiji weapon in motion will manifest the interactions of the five phases, the eight directions, and the yin-yang dynamics. To a total of 26 types of taiji energies, times all their possible combinations. What I call a "taiji energy" is not li and not qi, it's a combination of a wuxing phase of qi with a direction of the bagua and the yin-yang dynamics manifesting at a particular moment.

 

Our physics is not equipped to describe this kind of complexity. Biophysics might, someday... if it adopts the taoist approach.

[joeblast]

True. It really depends on how deep the rust is that will determine the best material to use.

 

I bought a few assassin and ornamental daggers that were in such horrible shape that I had to get my "Dremel" tool out in order to get down to the metal through the rust.

 

I do keep a large variety of sand paper grits but try to use them as little as possible, especially if the steel wool will do the job.

 

And yes, a very fine grit (320) sand paper can be used for finishing and if done properly will leave no scratches but I still prefer steel wool.

dremel, holy cripes I have a plethora of sandpaper from guitar projects, and most of the quantity is 600, 1000, 1500, 2000 I dont think I'd use less than 600...but maybe i've been staring into paint that's been loved over and over with the aforementioned progression of grits for too long

 

 

 

>*** Start Pedantic Interjection ***<

>* Not centripetal force, inertia. *<

>*** End Pedantic Interjection ***<

 

 

 

1. m is the mass of the moving sword

2. V is the velocity of the moving sword

3. r is your arm is the moment arm which is the distance betwee the your body and the centroid of the sword.

 

No.....???

 

No inertia.....??? How did the sword move then.......????? Isn't it moved by your arm causing the circular motion by the swing of the sword...???

 

keep studying english

 

 

Wu Ming Jen....

Ah, thank you! You are applying the law of physics. The centrifugal force requires a tight grip on the sword with the hand. During practice, one is holding the sword all the time; the arms may get sore and tired from the weight of the sword. What I was asking, what can one do to avoid fighting the weight of the sword all the time. If one can cut down the time in fighting the weight of the sword, then, the arms will have a less chance of getting fatigue quickly or less stress on the arms.

the grip should be as light as possible to produce the desired effect of keeping the sword in one's hand - fluidly.

 

that is the key term, because if your sword strike is all arm swing, like a baseball bat or something - your grip will necessarily be tighter than if the sword stroke emanates from the taiji pole, as it should

[dwai]

 

 

1. m is the mass of the moving sword

2. V is the velocity of the moving sword

3. r is your arm is the moment arm which is the distance betwee the your body and the centroid of the sword.

 

No.....???

 

No inertia.....??? How did the sword move then.......????? Isn't it moved by your arm causing the circular motion by the swing of the sword...???

 

Have you factored in the differentials depending on the point of contact on the sword blade, the angle of the blade, the rotational gradient of the blade???

 

No....???

 

Then how can you reduce this to some middle-school physics equation?

 

I'm not even going to go into Fourier Transforms etc...

[ChiDragon]

the grip should be as light as possible to produce the desired effect of keeping the sword in one's hand - fluidly.

 

that is the key term, because if your sword strike is all arm swing, like a baseball bat or something - your grip will necessarily be tighter than if the sword stroke emanates from the taiji pole, as it should

 

I was talking about just handling the weight of the sword during practice. I agree that holding the sword fluidly is an ideal case. However, sometimes, a tight grip is necessary. Thus that is where the principle of Yang/Yin comes into to play.

 

That was what I am trying to say. One can keep the weight of the sword off the hand half of the time by Ting Jin(聽勁) if one has the experience.

Edited August 11, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

dremel, holy cripes I have a plethora of sandpaper from guitar projects, and most of the quantity is 600, 1000, 1500, 2000 I dont think I'd use less than 600...but maybe i've been staring into paint that's been loved over and over with the aforementioned progression of grits for too long

Well, if you could have seen a few of them when they arrived you would understand the Dremel.

 

Yeah, for your guitars the motion is called "gentle".

[GrandmasterP]

"Sand with the grain" an old carpenter once told me.

There's a lot of wisdom in that and not just relating to woodwork.

Same guy taught me to...

" Measure thrice, cut once."

Edited August 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

" Measure thrice, cut once."

And always cut it longer than it needs be. You can always shorten it if it's too long but you can never stretch it longer if you cut it too short.

[mYTHmAKER]

i like this and its on sale http://www.wle.com/products/W023HQ.html semi-flexible

 

made by the Shen family in Long chuan village.

yes it is pretty, however it will not stand on point under it's own weight

My friend has this sword and gave it to me to use until i found one i liked.

i returned it to him - if you put the point to something it would flex too much IMHO

[Marblehead]

yes it is pretty, however it will not stand on point under it's own weight

My friend has this sword and gave it to me to use until i found one i liked.

i returned it to him - if you put the point to something it would flex too much IMHO

I was wondering about that when I looked at the pic. I saw the blade looking more like a Tai Chi practice sword than a blade made for use. But then, if it going to be used for practice only then there shouldn't be a problem. And it is likely light weight? and easy to handle.

[Brian]

 

 

1. m is the mass of the moving sword

2. V is the velocity of the moving sword

3. r is your arm is the moment arm which is the distance betwee the your body and the centroid of the sword.

 

No.....???

 

No inertia.....??? How did the sword move then.......????? Isn't it moved by your arm causing the circular motion by the swing of the sword...???

 

I went back and edited my earlier post:

>*** Start Pedantic Interjection ***<

>* Not centripetalcentrifugal force, inertia. *<

>*** End Pedantic Interjection ***<

 

 

EDIT: The phrase "centrifugal force" is so wrong that I have trouble even typing it when I'm busting it! Fixed above...

 

 

Think about a ball on the end of a sting. You spin it around over your head. The force the string transmits from your hand to the ball to bend its path into a circle is called "centripetal force" (F_c), which is a "center-seeking" force. The equation you post is correct -- for "centripetal force."

 

If that force is removed (a sword-wielding Taoist slices the string, perhaps), the ball's inertia continues to carry it, moving in a straight line at precisely the speed & direction it was traveling the moment the string was cut. (Neglecting air resistance and gravity for the moment.)

 

"Centrifugal force," on the other hand, is a complete misconception. When you are a passenger in a car which makes a hard turn, you might "feel" like we are being "thrown" to the outside of the curve. The word means "to flee the center" and, if the concept were correct, it would mean that, in the car example above, you were somehow being propelled at a right angle away from the center of the car. Instead, the car moves in a curved path below & around you, and you crash into it (as an external observer would plainly see) because your inertia wants to carry you in a straight line -- just like the ball on the string.

 

Centrifugal force would also have the ball-on-the-string make an instantaneous right-angle turn and fly directly away from you the moment the string was cut.

 

Clearly, some of the behavior centrifugal force is not exhibited in nature or experimentation. Centrifugal force does not model reality. It is sometimes a convenient misconception, though, so it remains in our lexicon.

[GrandmasterP]

How do you guys get to know all this stuff?

My brain has melted a bit just from reading it.

If I tried to understand it my head would probably explode.

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Brian]

 

Memorizing equations, formulas/formulae and rules of thumb WILL make your head explode! OK, not literally (generally speaking) but in a legitimate manner of speaking.

 

Instead, the trick is to absorb and integrate the underlying principals. The better trick is to dissolve them.

 

In the case above, I'd go to first principles and just derive the equation from Newton.

[mYTHmAKER]

I was wondering about that when I looked at the pic. I saw the blade looking more like a Tai Chi practice sword than a blade made for use. But then, if it going to be used for practice only then there shouldn't be a problem. And it is likely light weight? and easy to handle.

when doing my form if i hit my couch or mYTHISmAKER it would bend too much

Edited August 11, 2014 by mYTHmAKER

[Marblehead]

when doing my form if i hit my couch or mYTHISmAKER it would bend too much

Maybe it's good that it did bend?

 

Yeah, that sounds like it would be a practice sword.

 

It wasn't sharpened, was it?

[Andrei]

 

 

Cold Moon by Dragon Well - I've bought this sword for a friend, I was really impressed by the quality. That was a real war sword and only for 100 $. And the vibration was incredible, could't compare to any flexible jian I ever held in hands.

Here is a review of that sword:

[mYTHmAKER]

Maybe it's good that it did bend?

 

 

 

It wasn't sharpened, was it?

Depends

and it wasn't sharpened

[Marblehead]

Depends

and it wasn't sharpened

Okay. Yes, I feel confident in suggesting that it was designed and made to be used as a practice sword.

 

My practice swords are not sharpened. (All the others are though. I have them pretty close to a razor edge sharpness.) (No, I'm not going to try shaving with any of them.)

[Marblehead]

Cold Moon by Dragon Well - I've bought this sword for a friend, I was really impressed by the quality. That was a real war sword and only for 100 $. And the vibration was incredible, could't compare to any flexible jian I ever held in hands.

Here is a review of that sword:

Yeah, I would say that that was an excellent buy on that sword.

 

In the first two videos, I was surprised that after the guys' initial thrust or slice they were always out of position and balance except for watermelonman (the double edge sword). I doubt they would last long in battle.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Marblehead