Neidan: Refilling yuanjingqi, building the foundation

[LaoZiDao]

from Wuluipai, I have translated a great text of theirs from Russian, original from chinese to russian by Dimitri A. I hope I have done a nice job

 

Single Teacher Yang said:

In men, sixteen and fourteen years in women comes puberty. In men, there is outflow jing, in women their out flow comes monthly. At this time, the state of their bodies reaches the highest development, the true qi fills Sky and Earth organisms, then gradually begins to increase loss.

 

All people under the influence of emotions, passions, greed and anxiety, the influence of society, the influence of nature and other conditions are wasting their yuan jing, qi and shen.

 

All human life follows the inviltable principle of - Birth, growing, old age, sickness, then death.

 

Aging and death are objective factors that can not be resisted. Human life can be compared with a clay pot filled with oil, this oil by burning continuously which is always decreasing, jing, qi and shen.

 

Human bodies reduce jing qi shen in the same manner, when the oil in a pan over the fire is out and, Yuan Jing in the human body is over, and death will come.

 

Age sixteen for men, and age 14 for women, at this age they have highest development jing and qi in the body. Following the previous comparison, it looks like a pot filled with oil completely, then immediately comes the continuous leakage until death.

 

"Adding oil to fill the fate Ming" - is the use of special alchemy for progress in improving the return of already wasted mans Yuan jing and Yuan qi, and to bring the body back to the physiology and age of "filled pot" of oil again.

 

Filling bodys yuan jing is similar to that of filling pot with a new portion of oil, and only after the final refilling can the student begin to practice "remelting jing to qi.

 

"Adding oil to fill the fate Ming" - a method of improving, the reverse method of refilling yuanjing, so that it becomes possible to return human to youth, extend longevity and start the next practice of alchemy.

 

PS: i am not a student of Wuluipai. Just sharing their open materials.

Edited August 8, 2014 by LaoZiDao

[Andrei]

It's explained better in Taoist Yoga chapter 2.

[opendao]

It's explained better in Taoist Yoga chapter 2.

 

what is better?

[joeblast]

what is better?

having stated all of the above, and then some x5?

 

TY goes on to speak of how you accomplish this, instead of just mentioning its existence

[opendao]

TY goes on to speak of how you accomplish this, instead of just mentioning its existence

 

the text by WLP also speaks how to accomplish that (in other chapters, same as TY). Also TY is just based on WLP's text, so I really want to understand the difference. Also TY is not a complete and full translation of the Chinese text to English, so I'd like to hear Andrei's thoughts.

[LaoZiDao]

"In light of our chum's repetitive posting of set texts"

 

Actually opendo did not post this text, I did. And no I am not from Wuliupai, and I am not Russian.

 

Iv not seen anyone say anything against other paths

.? All iv seen is discussion on what 'paths' are not Neidan.

 

You are very inappropriate with your comments as well.

Edited August 11, 2014 by LaoZiDao

[Andrei]

the text by WLP also speaks how to accomplish that (in other chapters, same as TY). Also TY is just based on WLP's text, so I really want to understand the difference. Also TY is not a complete and full translation of the Chinese text to English, so I'd like to hear Andrei's thoughts.

 

I would like to see the full text translation too to make a good judgement, I compared only TY with the OP fragment, that's all.

Refilling yuanjingqi is described in TY ch. 2, the whole theory and practice.

I believe TY is not a translation of a Chinese text, it is more like an oral discussion of a certain master with Lu Kuan Yu (Charles Luk) about the practices refered in the Golden Flower Secret text. So we compare here "oral teachings" with "textbook teachings" imho.

[MooNiNite]

the methods in Taoist Yoga will slow a person down, imo. really complex and probably should have a teacher

Edited August 11, 2014 by MooNiNite

[Andrei]

Yeah I agree it's not complete, there are some practices missing but is a good reference when we compare texts and practices.

Especially in this case when someone is throwing a "mysterious passage" with "secret teachings" available only to a certain esoteric group.

[opendao]

I believe TY is not a translation of a Chinese text, it is more like an oral discussion of a certain master with Lu Kuan Yu (Charles Luk) about the practices refered in the Golden Flower Secret text. So we compare here "oral teachings" with "textbook teachings" imho.

 

Can you elaborate that part about GF? Is it your idea or from TY?

[GrandmasterP]

Man is my face red?

Public and PM'd apologies to Opendao for that typo.

It wasn't him that my deleted but repeated post was directed towards.

Edited August 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Andrei]

Can you elaborate that part about GF? Is it your idea or from TY?

 

Sorry It's not Golden Flower, it is another text "The secrets of cultivating essential nature and eternal life" Hsing Ming Fa Chueh Ming Chih.

[damdao]

Sorry It's not Golden Flower, it is another text "The secrets of cultivating essential nature and eternal life" Hsing Ming Fa Chueh Ming Chih.

This is, precisely, the book translated by Luk, with Q&A section included and was written by Zhao Bichen.

Here another book with more or less the same contents plus some houtian exercises:

http://www.amazon.com/Tratado-Alquimia-y-Medicina-Taoísta/dp/images/8478133755

[opendao]

This is, precisely, the book translated by Luk, with Q&A section included and was written by Zhao Bichen.

 

Have you had a chance to compare the Chinese text and Luk's translation?

[damdao]

I have the Chinese text and I could see that it includes two more sections: a last chapter of Q&A about expressions and its meaning and an appendix. But my Chinese is very basic now, so I cannot tell if Luk's translation is accurate or not (either from a linguistic point of view or having into account the esoteric meaning of the terms).

My intention was to point out that Taoist Yoga was not an oral instruction given to Luk by his master about Xinmingfajuemingzhi but a translation of that book (Xinmingfajuemingzhi), written by Zhao and translated by Luk, and that Q&A is part of the text translated, not a transcription of a conversation between Luk and his master.

I hope, in a few years, be able to do a comparison.

I posted the link about the other book in order to show that there is one more book translated but I do not consider his explanations better than the traditional ones. In the other book Zhao has made the attempt to match daoists concepts with scientific and anatomical explanations but I don't know if that was a successful attempt.

[LaoZiDao]

I have the Chinese text and I could see that it includes two more sections: a last chapter of Q&A about expressions and its meaning and an appendix. But my Chinese is very basic now, so I cannot tell if Luk's translation is accurate or not (either from a linguistic point of view or having into account the esoteric meaning of the terms).

My intention was to point out that Taoist Yoga was not an oral instruction given to Luk by his master about Xinmingfajuemingzhi but a translation of that book (Xinmingfajuemingzhi), written by Zhao and translated by Luk, and that Q&A is part of the text translated, not a transcription of a conversation between Luk and his master.

I hope, in a few years, be able to do a comparison.

I posted the link about the other book in order to show that there is one more book translated but I do not consider his explanations better than the traditional ones. In the other book Zhao has made the attempt to match daoists concepts with scientific and anatomical explanations but I don't know if that was a successful attempt.

 

I am going a little off topic here, sorry.

 

It is good to see your keenness on the texts. Though, it is really hard to grasp the true meaning of these texts without a true teacher, a saint 真人.

 

While Charles Luk deserves some respect for his translations and interest in spirituality and Dao. But all that need to be considered 'what are his achievements in Alchemy?'

 

Obviously not much as he had died (no disrespect), like all souls.. no different from the layperson. So based on this, his 'methods' failed.. so to follow his texts would be starting on his path which had failed him.

 

People looking for extending ones own life would be foolish to rely on texts written(translated) by laypersons.

 

"Modern people only know how to eat and defecate" - Ma Danyang

 

Based on this, how you can rely on such?

[opendao]

I have the Chinese text and I could see that it includes two more sections: a last chapter of Q&A about expressions and its meaning and an appendix. But my Chinese is very basic now, so I cannot tell if Luk's translation is accurate or not (either from a linguistic point of view or having into account the esoteric meaning of the terms).

My intention was to point out that Taoist Yoga was not an oral instruction given to Luk by his master about Xinmingfajuemingzhi but a translation of that book (Xinmingfajuemingzhi), written by Zhao and translated by Luk, and that Q&A is part of the text translated, not a transcription of a conversation between Luk and his master.

I hope, in a few years, be able to do a comparison.

I posted the link about the other book in order to show that there is one more book translated but I do not consider his explanations better than the traditional ones. In the other book Zhao has made the attempt to match daoists concepts with scientific and anatomical explanations but I don't know if that was a successful attempt.

 

Thank you. That's what I know and that's why I don't see so much value in TY. We've compared the texts, and a lot of things were missed or mistranslated. Maybe later we will post something about it, but I think all admirers of TY can do it by themselves, especially before trying to practice something from there.

[Yae]

Thank you. That's what I know and that's why I don't see so much value in TY. We've compared the texts, and a lot of things were missed or mistranslated. Maybe later we will post something about it, but I think all admirers of TY can do it by themselves, especially before trying to practice something from there.

 

Taoist Yoga is such a commonly discussed text here, I think a post like that would be pretty valuable.

[opendao]

Taoist Yoga is such a commonly discussed text here, I think a post like that would be pretty valuable.

 

It has no big sense. You can see here that people who praise Taoist Yoga book and use it as a manual, they are lost for any new knowledge, any different point of view. They don't care about translations, they don't care about harm, they see only "pineal glands" or "spirits" everywhere and play with terms without any practical understanding. It's the result of their training (well known affects produced by unbalanced qigong techniques).

I can say that the book, except mistranslations, even in the original form, has many mistakes, practical mistakes, starting from the beginning. People describe here their experience, speaking a lot about LDT, MCO, niwan and "turning the light around", but basically what they show is just the harm they received from such a home-made pseudo-daoist training...

Again, practically speaking, even the beginning methods in "Taoist Yoga" book are harmful, and obviously lead the practitioners in a wrong direction.

Nowadays there are better books, better translations of the classics. They don't look so "practical", but they give much better understanding of Neidan as it is. Anyway, without a teacher all that doesn't work, but books can help to find a teacher and understand him or her.

[SecretGrotto]

Nowadays there are better books, better translations of the classics. They don't look so "practical", but they give much better understanding of Neidan as it is. Anyway, without a teacher all that doesn't work, but books can help to find a teacher and understand him or her.

 

Which books would you recommend?

[opendao]

Which books would you recommend?

 

Fabrizio Pregadio's translations, for example. Taoist Encyclopaedia. Translations of some Quanzhen texts by Louis Komjathy. Not perfect, but it's a better start, in my opinion, then TY.

[SecretGrotto]

Fabrizio Pregadio's translations, for example. Taoist Encyclopaedia. Translations of some Quanzhen texts by Louis Komjathy. Not perfect, but it's a better start, in my opinion, then TY.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm concerned, if a practitioner experiences all the signs of the Small Heavenly Orbit, and later the Large Heavenly Orbit, BUT they have only used widely available "false" Neidan teachings, should they restart their training?

 

Is it definitely the case that such a practitioner only imagines that they have established the SHO, and that it is impossible to genuinely produce such a result from "false" Neidan teaching?

[joeblast]

Maybe if you pay enough money, you will get there

[Taoist Texts]

Maybe if you pay enough money, you will get there

 

they paid all the money they had and got nowhere. thats ironic. probably.

[opendao]

Thanks.

 

I'm concerned, if a practitioner experiences all the signs of the Small Heavenly Orbit, and later the Large Heavenly Orbit, BUT they have only used widely available "false" Neidan teachings, should they restart their training?

 

Is it definitely the case that such a practitioner only imagines that they have established the SHO, and that it is impossible to genuinely produce such a result from "false" Neidan teaching?

 

If there are true signs, then the teaching is true, obviously. But the proofs cannot be only subjective, there are things that are objective and can be validated not only by the practitioner, but outside as well. Such criteria are part of the method, and most of them are not disclosed in books.

 

Also, there are different things people mistakenly take as SHO. Such things can be just about imagination, but usually they are of postheaven nature, achieved by qigong training based on breathing, visualisation, "meditations of different kind" etc. In this case a teacher has to stop everything and restore the normal functionality first, only then start from scratch.

 

SHO is a quite high achievement in Neidan. If somebody can manage it just by reading a book and a few attempts, then probably something is not right. And before SHO there are other levels, also rich on achievements and miracles.

 

Sometimes young people can run a few circles of a true SHO, but such ability disappears very quickly or is replaced by a postheaven imitation.