Neidan: Refilling yuanjingqi, building the foundation

[Brian]

 

Happy 4000th post Brian

 

And who could possibly know enough to do accurate labeling? Hmmm... You?

Oh, absolutely! Couldn't have yesterday but with my 4000^th post I received a certificate (complete with gold seal and blue ribbon) which proves to all & sundry that I am now a genuine and authenticated Grand Poobah^TM.

 

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Pyramidalcow]

Innersoundqigong, So how does one retract the penis? What page number?

 

Guys if you want to not have any sexual libido during celibacy practice 6th Tibetan rite. It works wonders. You might feel that your Jing feels empty but that be caused it's transmuted in higher chakras. IME

[LaoZiDao]

 

Oh ok thanks. When I first read "theoretically possible" with true Neidan, I took it to mean that people don't actually pursue it even though they could. But it's more like one of the "flowers along the road" that are signs of progress but not actually the aim.

 

Amazing.

 

You could put it like that, but to be specific, Dixian is one of the stages. You cannot become Shenxian without first achieving Dixian. And of course, cannot achieve Dixian without first achieving Renxian.

[voidisyinyang]

Innersoundqigong, So how does one retract the penis? What page number? Guys if you want to not have any sexual libido during celibacy practice 6th Tibetan rite. It works wonders. You might feel that your Jing feels empty but that be caused it's transmuted in higher chakras. IME

 

yeah I agree -

 

basically Taoist Yoga focuses on the Quick Fire method to retract the penis.

 

So essentially if there's any evil thoughts and this causes erection or "shivering" - then quick fire is used which is deep fast breathing.

 

I find that horse stand with thighs parallel to ground is the fastest way to induce Quick Fire breathing.

 

So for example the question in Taoist Yoga is - the person is doing the small universe/microcosmic orbit but they still keep having nocturnal emissions - why?

 

The answer is because they're just doing the small universe/microcosmic orbit as a mental practice without the required deep breathing.

 

So the quick fire method is the initial practice to sublimate and purify the energy.

 

You sublimate in the morning and then purify through small universe practice.

 

There are different levels to the small universe practice - the first is to help sublimate and the second is to purify.

 

Then at midnight is the Emptiness level of small universe - which can only be practiced if the first two levels are already achieved.

 

so that means if you have evil thoughts at midnight then it will reverse the alchemical agent back into fluid and mess up the practice.

 

So if that happens it means you didn't properly do the previous steps of sublimation and purification.

 

Along with the deep horse stance also a good full lotus session - 2 hours - will purify the energy.

 

So then when you see light internally that means that the generative force has been sublimated as yin chi into the brain to be purified.

 

So the small universe/microcosmic orbit is efficacious as a practice because it utilizes the four cavities -

 

1) the cavity of mortality at the root of the penis is where the cavity of vitality is activated and created. That is your stored up yin jing energy that normally is turned to fluid when evil thoughts occur.

 

2) If there are evil thoughts this causes the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality as the pineal gland to shoot down yuan chi, down the spine, which triggers the yin jing in the cavity of vitality to turn into fluid. If you instead focus on the Emptiness this causes the yuan chi to increase the heart fire energy to go down the front of the spine to create the lower tan t'ien.

 

3) the Cavity of Spirit is the heart energy that manifests out of the eyes via the heart's fire or yin chi energy. The source of this energy is the unified spirit-vitality as the Cavity of Original Spirit but it does not exist yet until the alchemical process on the Emptiness occurs.

 

4) The lower tan t'ien as the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality is created by the above alchemical microcosmic orbit/small universe training.

 

So those are the four main nodes of the 12 harmonic nodes of the small universe/microcosmic orbit process.

 

A lot of people want to dismiss that practice as just being psychophysiological - but it's not - it creates energy from the Emptiness and when the yin chi is filled up in the lower tan tien this activates the Yuan Jing as True Vitality of the middle tan t'ien which then works to open up the Cavity of Original Spirit as the Tai Chi enlightenment experience.

 

So the Tai Chi experience is a unified Yuan Jing-Chi-Shen experience - as Taoist Yoga calls it - a spark of Positive Spirit. So this is the manifestion of essential nature - Xing - as the first half of the immortality training. It is the yin shen manifesting as the lunar energy from the yin chi having filled up the lower tan tien.

 

At that point you can go without food and sleep fairly easily and also the immortal breathing kicks in - and the chi energy is very strong. But to get from Chapter 4 to Chapter 6 requires that the alchemical agent not be lost as fluid.

 

The only way to do that is to combine the yin chi and the yang chi energy - the right and left eye energy of the sun and moon - and so you have to increasingly transform the yin chi into yang chi. This prevents the yin chi from turning back into fluid which is lost at night as nocturnal emission. If you can successfully turn it into yang chi then it can be stored into the deeper inner cell of the lower tan t'ien - called "True Serenity."

 

So at first that enables a week without food with no loss of energy and no need of sleep. Then it can be extended to a month and then two months, etc. Each time building up the energy in deep serenity and so the third eye is then fully opened.

 

It doesn't mean that the fasting is required but that is one way to go about it - but nevertheless the purification process does have to deepen. And so that purification is called "converting jing to chi."

 

Obviously it is easy if you still have a lot of prenatal yuan jing energy - from being young and chaste.

 

Also as Taoist Yoga says the main reason people fail in the training is because the same passions are inflamed by the increase in yin chi energy even though those passions have to be extinguished in order to build up the Prenatal Vitality energy from the Emptiness meditation.

 

So that was the error I made also - overusing my third eye, sending out yin chi energy as evil fire of the heart. So yes you can still lose energy this way even though physical celibacy is maintained without any ejaculation.

 

But if you are not intentionally sending out energy - then maintaining celibacy will keep building up the energy along with the alchemical training. It's just that more and more people will go to further extremes to take your energy as you build it up.

 

So again the above deep horse stance is what kicks in the quick fire deep fast breathing most effectively to retract the penis.

 

When the yin chi energy is built up then you should be able to do horse stance with thighs parallel to the ground - nonstop for 2 hours a day. This is what qigong master Chunyi did when he trained at Shaolin for 3 months. You can also see this in the youtube video on the traditional Shaolin training. So Chunyi said at the end of the 3 months then he was told they could do long distance healing and he did a healing on his uncle.

 

What was referred to in the reply to me as the penis standing erect at night and then causing nocturnal emission - this can be caused even without any bad dreams. This is because the evil fire of the heart is direct perception as alchemical agent in action - it is called "twinkling of the eye" in the Taoist Yoga book. IN other words we can send out energy out of the eye, via the pineal gland connection to the heart - and this in turn, at the same time, triggers the pineal gland to shoot qi down the spine to create fluid. So it is a reverse small universe in action - the energy as yin chi getting pulled up the front of the spine, along with lower body waste, and it is shot out of the eyes and skull - this is via the Cavity of the Spirit, while the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality shoots energy down the spine to cause, eventually an ejaculation at night. So that process does not even require thinking with left-brain dominance of words - it can be triggered just by images as right brain dominance.

 

So the practice of "turning the light around" is to go into the Emptiness in real time even with the eyes open - to turn the Cavity of Spirit light from going out of the eyes, to connect with the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality pineal gland energy as the intention is focused on the Emptiness.

 

Unless the above sublimation-purification-Emptiness practice is achieved then the energy will be lost via ejaculation during sleep and this is the main loss of the energy. Was it triggered by a physical action to do with touching the gate of mortality? Obviously not but the point of Taoist Yoga is that this error can be reversed through the above practices.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[voidisyinyang]

 

ISQ has intensily quoted about "drain". Obviously, "leakage" on the energy level is followed by the semen emission (for men).

So TY speaks a lot about the method how to prevent that. The main question is WHEN we have to revert the process of draining.

ISQ insists, that it's in the moment of "physical drain", so if man has no sex, then there is no drain.

Let's see TY: "When the generative force is about to flow out, if the mortal gate is not blocked it will leave by that gate, turn liquid and become the generative fluid which will be discharged. This generative force will become semen if it flows out in the worldly way". Obviously yuan jing ("generative force") and semen ("generative fluid") are not the same even for Zhao Bichen. That's why I told that it's wrong to think that the drain is physical. That's why it's too late to stop the semen flow (as LaoziDao correctly mentioned). So TY doesn't speak about physical drain.

But let's return to WHEN. "When the generative force is about to flow out". The previous sentence in the book gives an answer: "when the penis stands during sleep". So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY, in other schools the opinions are different). Really it doesn't matter, do you have sex or not, do you have sexual desires or not. If you don't know the specific method to apply at a specific time, then all this celibacy is in vain: yuan jing is transformed to postheaven jing and will flow away sooner or later.

So again the same: book is wrong, book is incomplete, but even this wrong book is not about "celibacy as the main form to stop leakage". Method is different. Alas, it's more complex then just to press by a finger on the root of penis...

 

Let's give the quote again to see how you have "re-interpreted" it:

 

"'When the generative force is about to flow out, if the mortal gate (sheng szu ch'ia at the root of the penis) is not blocked (by a finger pressed on it) it will leave by that gate, turn liquid, become the generative fluid which will be discharged. This generative force will become semen if it flows out in the worldly way but will change into vitality if it is turned back (and sublimated in the microcosmic orbit).'" p. 8

 

"When the generative force is about to flow out".

 

The previous sentence gives the answer?

 

Oh please stop the b.s.!

 

 

So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY,

 

That is another complete misrepresentation of the Taoist Yoga book.

 

If the penis stands erect that does not mean energy has drained.

 

The penis stands erect when the energy is stored up - not drained.

 

Let's actually quote the book instead of relying on your "interpretation."

 

Nice try though - once again.

 

 

So when the genital organ is aroused and the penis stands during sleep, it is imperative to gather the alchemical agent. p. 8

 

There's absolutely nothing about losing vitality when the penis stands erect.

 

What did you say?

 

The previous sentence in the book gives an answer: "when the penis stands during sleep". So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY,

 

Nope - when the penis stands erect the vitality is gathered - not drained.

 

 

Really it doesn't matter, do you have sex or not, do you have sexual desires or not. If you don't know the specific method to apply at a specific time, then all this celibacy is in vain: yuan jing is transformed to postheaven jing and will flow away sooner or later.

 

Of course it matters if you have sex or not or have sexual desires or not.

 

Again the book is based on teaching how to correct those errors.

 

 

So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY,

 

Again this is total b.s.

 

Let's prove you wrong again by what?

 

Quoting the Taoist Yoga book.

 

 

Like something that after reaching its limit turns round this utter stillness was followed by motion and all of a sudden the vital force vibrated strongly causing my penis to stand erect, which proved that the real fire which had remained dormant for some time had begun to move itself." p. 45

 

according to you that meant his vitality was drained - but that's not what the book says!

 

 

So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY

 

Nope. Wrong.

 

 

In the absence of stirring thought when the penis stands erect, the practiser should breathe in outer air which reaching the mortal cavity (at the base of the penis) causes the negative vital breath there to rise (in the jen mo channel) to the centre of vitality (the lower tan t'ien under the navel). p. 48

 

Once again - the penis is erect but behold - no drain of vitality.

 

So guess what - you're misrepresenting the book once again!

 

 

Then the following inhalation and exhalation which send the (vital) breath up and down to complete a full orbit thereby stopping the arousal of the genital organ, is to block the drain of the generative fluid; p. 49

 

Notice it says block the drain of generative fluid - not drain of vitality.

 

See the difference?

 

 

When the heart is stirred the penis stands erect in spite of the absence of thoughts. This is real fire in the house, which arouses the genital organ, and although thoughts are absent, this fire is not the genuine one which vibrates at the living hour of tsu (between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m.). when the penis erects. p. 54

 

O.K. so as the above explains - there are different levels of the small universe/microcosmic orbit.

 

There is the sublimation level and purification level and then the Emptiness level. Two of the above examples are on the Emptiness level and two of the above examples are when the sublimation and purification needs to happen.

 

Now you are saying that the loss is vitality and not leakage that is physical.

 

Again you ignore the quotes I have already posted:

 

 

"When the generative and vital forces in the lower tan t'ien cavity move away they become liquid but when they return to that cavity they are prenatal vitality." p. 59

 

So again clearly what happens is that the energy is deconverted into physical drainage unless the sublimation and purification process occurs. But if that sublimation and purification process occurs the liquid is converted back into energy.

 

But what did you say?

 

Obviously yuan jing ("generative force") and semen ("generative fluid") are not the same even for Zhao Bichen. That's why I told that it's wrong to think that the drain is physical.

 

And what does Taoist Yoga say?

 

 

"When the generative and vital forces in the lower tan t'ien cavity move away they become liquid but when they return to that cavity they are prenatal vitality." p. 59

 

and

 

 

"In order to avoid eventual leakage, in and out breaths are used to seal up the two forces. After bringing them under control, they should immediately be put into the microcosmic orbit for sublimation by fire, during which the generative force will be turned into vitality." p. 60.

 

o.k. it is very clear - that is how the Yuanjing is restored.

 

 

"(This is because) the continual drain of generative fluid empties the testicles (of energy), just as a vessel overflows when more water is added if there is no fire to turn that water into steam." p. 64

 

O.K. once again very clearly the Taoist Yoga book is saying the energy is lost from the physical drainage of the fluid. And so by the practice of fire - Quick Fire and Slow Fire - the fluid is turned back into vitality and Yuanjing is restored via the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality, the pineal gland Emptiness.

[opendao]

"When the generative force is about to flow out".

 

The penis stands erect when the energy is stored up - not drained.

 

Blind. RIP.

 

Anybody else can buy his arguments or still have doubts about TY book?

[Aetherous]

 

"In order to avoid eventual leakage, in and out breaths are used to seal up the two forces. After bringing them under control, they should immediately be put into the microcosmic orbit for sublimation by fire, during which the generative force will be turned into vitality." p. 60.

o.k. it is very clear - that is how the Yuanjing is restored.

 

The terminology is incredibly misunderstood here. This part is actually talking about using up yuan jing, not restoring it.

[voidisyinyang]

The terminology is incredibly misunderstood here. This part is actually talking about using up yuan jing, not restoring it.

 

 

 

The element of water in the lower belly is thus scorched by spirit's fire and thereby transmuted into true vitality. The practiser should gather immediately the true generative force.

p. 20

 

See I quote the book.

 

You insist it means the opposite.

 

Good luck there.

[voidisyinyang]

Blind. RIP.

 

Anybody else can buy his arguments or still have doubts about TY book?

 

Your half-quote lies have already been debunked.

[voidisyinyang]

Your half-quote lies have already been debunked.

 

 

"When the generative force is about to flow out...turn liquid, but will change into vitality if it is turned back (and sublimated in the microcosmic orbit).'" p. 8

[Aetherous]

 

See I quote the book.

 

You insist it means the opposite.

 

Good luck there.

 

The element of water in the lower belly is thus scorched by spirit's fire and thereby transmuted into true vitality. The practiser should gather immediately the true generative force.

p. 20

 

My understanding of that part: the element of water...this is the prenatal jing having to do with the kidney...is scorched by the spirit's fire...Heart fire strengthening kidney yang or mingmen fire...which then is transmuting kidney yin and jing into yuan qi (true vitality) through the ren and du.

 

By "gather the true generative force", it doesn't mean that vivifying your yuan jing will create more yuan jing. Gather here likely means to utilize...to transmute it.

 

You understand what transmute means, right? It doesn't mean refill. It means to take a substance and make it lighter...like ice into water, or water into steam. You understand that generative force and vitality are two different things, right?

[voidisyinyang]

Question: You have said the method of producing true generative force differs according to the three categories of practisers:.... p. 19

 

O.K. so what are the 3 categories?

 

Young chaste dude.

 

Middle aged dude.

 

Old man dude.

 

 

For the loss of vitality may be little or large; the prenatal vitality may be deficient or adequate; and both postnatal and prenatal generative forces may have or may not have dispersed; hence the process of sublimation is not the same for all practisers. p. 35

 

That loss is from ejaculation.

 

The difference of how much prenatal vitality needs to be produced depends on how much postnatal has to be converted to prenatal based on the above 3 categories.

 

 

 

Prenatal vitality is

produced

and stored up by this (breathing) process while (fire in) the heart and (water in the) lower abdomen mingle. p. 36

Fir

e

derived from (prenatal) vitality purifies breathing and contributes to the manifestation of spirit. p. 46

 

and

 

 

....vital force will develop of itself and will begat true vitality which will be linked with (essential) life in the lower tan t'ien centre (under the navel) to produce the golden elixir (chin tan).' p.7

 

 

So you go from yin jing (food) to yang jing (yin chi) to yang chi (yin shen) as true vitality.

 

If your old then you need more postnatal sources.

 

If your young and chaste then less postnatal sources.

 

that's what the book is about.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Innersoundqigong

[Daeluin]

But if a person has merged ming and xing, reaching the Earth Immortal stage, how is it even possible to die of old age?

 

It occurs to me, that it is one thing to create the medicines and elixirs, and an entirely different thing to circulate them throughout the body.

 

I do not know, but sense, that one may use the medicines and elixirs to further the alchemy to new levels without fully circulating those medicines to fully dissolve and replenish the substance of the body.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Daeluin

[opendao]

My understanding of that part: the element of water...this is the prenatal jing having to do with the kidney...is scorched by the spirit's fire...Heart fire strengthening kidney yang or mingmen fire...which then is transmuting kidney yin and jing into yuan qi (true vitality) through the ren and du.

 

By "gather the true generative force", it doesn't mean that vivifying your yuan jing will create more yuan jing. Gather here likely means to utilize...to transmute it.

 

You understand what transmute means, right? It doesn't mean refill. It means to take a substance and make it lighter...like ice into water, or water into steam. You understand that generative force and vitality are two different things, right?

 

There are 2 phases of the process of gathering yuan jing and stopping the leakage. Innersoundqigong mixed them both, and now he is trying to use postheaven to refill preheaven, so let's wish him good luck.

[Saoshun]

Innersoundqigong, So how does one retract the penis? What page number? Guys if you want to not have any sexual libido during celibacy practice 6th Tibetan rite. It works wonders. You might feel that your Jing feels empty but that be caused it's transmuted in higher chakras. IME

 

 

Can you share instructions of this 6th ritual?

[opendao]

So you go from yin jing (food) to yang jing (yin chi) to yang chi (yin shen) as true vitality.

...

how much postnatal has to be converted to prenatal

 

really? LOL

[Andrei]

Can you share instructions of this 6th ritual?

 

 

It's in the book "Ancient_Secret_of_the_Fountain_of_Youth-Peter_Kelder.pdf" you can find it easily on google, pages 34-36.

But in Taoist Yoga the actual practice is a bit different, it is described in chapter 2 and is the Micro Cosmic Circulation.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Andrei

[Saoshun]

Thank you, I study tibetan buddhism but seems it's not popular practices right now.

 

On what level is difference there? energetic level (different dan tien/chakra etc.)

[Andrei]

You should read the two books to answer your question. They both can be easily found as pdf on google.

You should try both methods to see what is the effect on your being.

Anything I would say, on you these practices would have a totally different outcome so you have to experience yourself to see the difference.

[Saoshun]

You should read the two books to answer your question. They both can be easily found as pdf on google. You should try both methods to see what is the effect on your being. Anything I would say, on you these practices would have a totally different outcome so you have to experience yourself to see the difference.

 

 

That's common sense, I would just to know what conclusion do you have about it, no worries that side based on personal experience will be there too with me.

[voidisyinyang]

"...he should first repair the damage to his body caused by the dissipation of generative force. When the generative force and vitality are full again the light of vitality will manifest and his gentile organ will become retractile which is the moment for the breakthrough."

 

 

p. 12

 

So yeah really!

 

first build up jing energy as yin chi and then yin chi is built up so yang chi manifests and then build up the yang chi.

 

That's what Taoist Yoga says.

 

 

"At eighty or ninety if one meets a competent master one can still produce the golden elixir (of immortality)." p. 13

 

and

 

"As soon as the penis stands breath in fresh air to fan the stove in the lower abdomen in order to drive the generative force into the channel of control (tu mo in the spine) and put it into microcosmic orbit." p. 13

 

Nothing about vitality lost when the penis stands up.

 

"If in spite of these thirty-six breaths the genital organ is still aroused you should immediately gather the alchemical agent to collect vitality in order to restore the dissipated generative force." p. 13

 

So the first 36 breaths of the microcosmic orbit is sublimation.

 

If the vitality continues to manifest then the yin chi is full in the lower tan tien and so that is the time to "gather the alchemical agent" via the Emptiness.

 

 

"The arousal of the genital organ feeds the inner fire in the stove which transforms the generative fluid derived from digestion of food into negative generative force to fortify the body and enliven the spirit thereby lengthening the span of life." p. 13

 

 

So "negative generative force" is yin jing from food and as I sourced above:

 

When the generative force and vitality are full again the light of vitality will manifest

 

So you build up first the yin jing into yin chi and so on.

 

 

"If the generative force is gathered for a hundred (successive) days, sixty-four chou of vitality is gained and a unit of positive principle is produced;" p. 14

 

 

So that is how the yuan jing is created from the postnatal energy. Notice it says "produced" - not just transmuted or restored.

 

Now the super-secret Neidan school says 100 days is enough. Yet even a chaste youth has to do 10 months to fully open the third eye! haha.

 

It takes a middle aged man 600 days of restoring the yin jing energy to fully open the third eye.

[opendao]

I won't profess to be an expert. However, in my experience, I would have to say that the account given by Innersoundqigong seems more true. I have partaken in and continue to practice the standing exercises (horse stance, moving of yin and yang), and full lotus paired with different meditations.

 

Spring Forest Qigong?

 

And, with time, I have also had the experience in the middle of the night or morning where "vitality" seems to manifest. My response to that was to go into siddhasana or a type of seated posture that applied pressure to the perineum and, once that was done, there was a most tangible something that moved up my spine and into my head (it was both audible and something that could be felt). So, I am fairly certain that vitality is not lost in the instance where it begins to present itself down below (so to speak).

 

If there is anything lost, then we should go about the task of clarifying our semantics rather than having a bout of "I'm right; you're wrong" that has no termination. From my own experience, though, a tangible 'energy' that can be felt and moved is not lost at that moment.

 

What we feel is postheaven. So you feel that postheaven jing moves up your spine to the brain. This is very well known "pseudo-MCO" effect. Shortly speaking, by such exercise you spend the preheaven and damage your brain, instead of replenishing your yuan jing.

 

Just think, do you feel how you're ageing? Nobody feels yuan qi being wasted on a daily basis. So feelings, awareness etc are not good friends here.

 

Sure, yuan jing has to be replenished first, but the question is how. It's impossible to replenish it by having no sex or forcing sexual jing to move to the brain. Moreover, it's dangerous. See http://all-dao.com/heavenly-circle.html for more.

 

And Bluemind has already posted the list of practices, that WON'T lead to Dao. What you with Innersoundqigong try to support here, all that is there. Just FYI.

 

I don't really care where you guys go, but I think it's better to explain things how they are in traditional Daoist schools, where the high level results still exist.

[voidisyinyang]

Spring Forest Qigong?

 

 

 

What we feel is postheaven. So you feel that postheaven jing moves up your spine to the brain. This is very well known "pseudo-MCO" effect. Shortly speaking, by such exercise you spend the preheaven and damage your brain, instead of replenishing your yuan jing.

 

Just think, do you feel how you're ageing? Nobody feels yuan qi being wasted on a daily basis. So feelings, awareness etc are not good friends here.

 

Sure, yuan jing has to be replenished first, but the question is how. It's impossible to replenish it by having no sex or forcing sexual jing to move to the brain. Moreover, it's dangerous. See http://all-dao.com/heavenly-circle.html for more.

 

And Bluemind has already posted the list of practices, that WON'T lead to Dao. What you with Innersoundqigong try to support here, all that is there. Just FYI.

 

I don't really care where you guys go, but I think it's better to explain things how they are in traditional Daoist schools, where the high level results still exist.

 

 

 

Taoist Yoga book clearly explains the process.

 

At first you are building up yin chi energy.

 

If you can fill the lower tan tien then the "real" heavenly circle opens up as you call it.

 

If you can not successfully fill up the lower tan tien then at least the practice is good for healing the body.

 

As Taoist Yoga explains - yes post-natal sources can replenish prenatal energy as long as the Emptiness is the focus and celibacy is maintained.

 

Instead of trying to critique the teachings of Taoist Yoga you have chosen to attack Spring Forest Qigong?

 

Hilarious!

 

Previously you said you had no proof that Chunyi was a real internal alchemist or whatever fancy term you want to use.

 

haha. I said you practiced "willful ignorance."

 

Then you claim that I had no evidence that Taoist Yoga is focused on no physical leakage and yet I showed a plethora of such evidence.

 

So then you resorted to a half sentence of a quote while changing the meaning of what you left out.

 

That's called lying. And it didn't work since I just demonstrated the 2nd half of the sentence plus several more examples.

 

Finally you said I was confusing the 2 steps of the training when I was the one who first pointed out those 2 different steps! haha.

 

So I just provided more Taoist Yoga quotes that proved that indeed even an old man can obtain immortality by "producing" yuanjing from postnatal food sources and celibacy.

 

So now you want to say - ah but that's just an illusion.

 

No - it's the initial part of the training - to build up the yin chi energy and if you follow Taoist Yoga book correctly then yes it does work.

 

I know because I achieved up to chapter 6 in Taoist Yoga along with experiences from Chapter 7 to chapter 11.

 

As for whether Spring Forest Qigong is a real alchemy path - well I'll let you decide to continue to be willfully ignorant of the truth.

 

I can assure you that Chunyi does not practice any kind of "pseudo" MCO and he certainly knows the difference when he is teaching his students.

[opendao]

As Taoist Yoga explains - yes post-natal sources can replenish prenatal energy as long as the Emptiness is the focus and celibacy is maintained.

 

TY is full of mistakes, so good luck with that: eat, celibate and wait 20 years, when it will be evident that it doesn't work. You're not the first one. Last person who lost his mind after reading TY too much, he claimed that yuan jing is in testicles and to keep it he has to squeeze them... Oh, and don't forget to re-read the part about avoiding farting. It's a true super secret method! :-)))

 

Instead of trying to critique the teachings of Taoist Yoga you have chosen to attack Spring Forest Qigong?

 

Jing hit your brain? I've asked a person what he is practising. That's it.

 

I have no interest in SFQ, especially after all your postings ("Lao Zi touched him... " lol). There are a few thousand schools like that in the world. Waste of time. So relax and keep us updated about your "discoveries". At least people will know where it has no sense to go.

Edited January 31, 2015 by opendao