Recognizing Reality

[deci belle]

The recognition of reality as the totality of one's self is abiding in the presence of an immediate and perpetual result without cause as is. This is not dependent on circumstances, it is proven by them.

 

Simply believing this is not good enough.

 

Proving it in actual affairs is clarifying the basis of potential in terms of each created cycle.

 

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. Passing through, things are as they are without making arrangements.

 

This is because the basis is inherent in creation.

 

In not going along, good and bad cease to exist.

 

The proof is arriving at the result of inevitability over and over and over.

 

When you find out what happened in the end, yin and yang have yet to act.

 

This is sameness, neither lasting nor destroyed.

 

It seems silly to mention this, but I still don't know.

 

Who would have?

 

Those who make a point of distinguishing eternalism and nihilism without being able to clarify the middle way independently of their own accord only borrow a purloined path leading to an impasse. Crooked businessmen and officials aught to be circumspect in this regard.

 

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. This is because Reality has no cause to effect.

 

The perpetual result is mind itself; characteristics do not cling, only dependent on views.

 

Seeing this is a recognition independent of creation without cause.

 

Though there is the knowledge of reality, it is not different.

 

If I actually had something to give, why wouldn't I?

 

If one has the great good fortune to stumble upon this recognition of reality, it would be very foolish not to clarify the basis in calm stillness, open and serene, watching over the solidification of potential, neither material nor void.

 

This is why I say belief is not sufficient. Though perfection is immediate, self-refinement is gradual. One's mouth should become moldy from lack of use. Forget words and guard it.

[Brian]

Very nice, my dear. Especially that last paragraph.

[deci belle]

haha!!❤ Ya, i stole the very last bit from Master Lu~ he winked!!

[goldisheavy]

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. Passing through, things are as they are without making arrangements.

I don't agree. You speak of relaxation here, but relaxation itself is an accomplishment. Relaxation is voluntary and there are alternatives to relaxation.

In not going along, good and bad cease to exist.

One can go along or not go along. Again, a choice. Again, accomplishment.

The proof is arriving at the result of inevitability over and over and over.

Nothing that is phenomenal is inevitable. All phenomena have alternatives. Instead of tea, coffee. Instead of coffee, soda. Instead of short, tall. Instead of here, there. Etc. It's all alternative upon alternative upon alternative, up to infinity. There is nothing inevitable about any of it. It's all a result of a choice.

Those who make a point of distinguishing eternalism and nihilism without being able to clarify the middle way independently of their own accord only borrow a purloined path leading to an impasse. Crooked businessmen and officials aught to be circumspect in this regard.

I agree 100%. People blindly mimic the words of great beings without understanding the implications in the intimacy and immediacy of their own experience. Sadly this condition is common in this realm, because over here to rest firmly within one's own being is considered disrespectful to others. Whereas constantly doubting oneself in order to open up some space for the opinions of others is considered respectful and kind. In this way convention destroys what is sacred inside the heart.

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. This is because Reality has no cause to effect.

I agree about Reality, but reality is not something inert off to the side. Reality has a dynamic aspect to it -- volition. This volition is all-accomplishing. There are great phenomena and pathetic phenomena. There are petty deeds and great deeds. While there is no objective way to establish greatness, each sage knows intuitively what heroic deeds must be undertaken to break through to another level of experiencing. Such efforts are not in vain.

[deci belle]

Belief in aspects of a surviving individual absolutism, whether it be a mystical abstraction or an independently originated self with an extra-existential spiritual separate identity (transmundane created soul) attributable to (?), is termed "eternalism", as there is something that lasts.

 

Belief in the ultimate destruction of a created self on whatever level it can be conceived in an overarching sense of futility is termed "nihilism", in that nothing lasts.

 

The reality is that nothing is created. Therefore life and death is the definition of karmic process, creative evolution, circumstantial causal relative existence. If one sees one's nature, it becomes evident that there is no such thing as anything. The palpable feeling of the absence of even nothing is the simple experience of the immaterial energy of aware nonoriginated selfless nonbeing, which is the uncreated potential primal knowing essential nature of human being: enlightened awareness.

 

Seeing one's own awareness in ordinary situations as selfless uncreated and utterly immovable in terms of karmic evolution is recognizing reality.

 

It does not depend on anything outside of mind itself. Self-refinement is refining this little bit of reality until it is complete reality, with no inside or outside. Sudden enlightenment is just a natural resonance with one's enlightening activity outside of creation experienced as the true self by itself. The person does not experience it— only the inner self sees itself.

 

The inner self is nonoriginated selfless awareness— your own mind right now.

 

What is stopping you from recognizing reality as is as your own mind right now?

 

It's not some other mind, not some other reality, some other time. Other than you, no one knows— even so, there is nothing outside of immediate presence to carry you through. There is nothing to know.

 

Reality doesn't look any different than delusion. Reality is your own mind without attaching to personalistic views relative to self and other, right or wrong. Views are. Detach from them and see the nature of your own mind in the midst of ordinary affairs. It doesn't require deliberation or making arrangements beforehand.

 

 

 

ed note: add last paragraph

Edited August 13, 2014 by deci belle

[deci belle]

Reality has absolutely no discernible point to grasp in terms of personalistic views of "agreement" or "disagreement".

 

Either you see reality or you don't.

[goldisheavy]

Reality has absolutely no discernible point to grasp in terms of personalistic views of "agreement" or "disagreement".

 

Either you see reality or you don't.

This is nonsense. There is nothing to see that would correspond to reality.

 

Instead, there are skillful modalities of experiencing and clumsy ones, but the judgement will always be subjective. What one thinks is skillful another thinks is clumsy. Every manner of experiencing has its pros and cons. There is no attainment that doesn't in turn sacrifice something.

[Bearded Dragon]

There is no attainment that doesn't in turn sacrifice something.

 

Of course. You want to sacrifice false for true, or maybe vice versa in some cases. This is still within the realm of creation though. The point is that the enlightened mind is looking from outside of creation where yin and yang do not apply. If yin and yang do not apply then there is no subjectivity, judgement, pros, cons.

[goldisheavy]

 

Of course. You want to sacrifice false for true, or maybe vice versa in some cases. This is still within the realm of creation though. The point is that the enlightened mind is looking from outside of creation where yin and yang do not apply. If yin and yang do not apply then there is no subjectivity, judgement, pros, cons.

So if you look outside creation you sacrifice creativity to reach that viewpoint.

 

This is still a subjective choice with other options available.

Edited August 13, 2014 by goldisheavy

[joeblast]

[deci belle]

Goldisheavy is the typical worldling completely lost at the one word emptiness.

 

People who are afraid of missing out on anything cannot step over eternity.

 

You don't have the choice, dear.

 

So if you look outside creation you sacrifice creativity to reach that viewpoint.

This is still a subjective choice with other options available.

 

Looking outside creation is a confused terminology— the subject of this thread is the perspective of the uncreated itself.

 

It is selfless and doesn't choose anything.

 

You are afraid of missing out on anything and cannot abide in the inevitable.

 

Those who have no interest in the endless fascinations of creation because they know there is only death by virtue of entry into created cycles regardless of their length in time do not concern themselves with "subjective choices with other options available".

 

Why? Because there are no options, much less other options. Reality is. If you see reality, who needs choice?

 

Since you do not see reality (even though it looks no different that delusion), you dabble in your imaginary self entertaining imaginary choices and actions thereby incurring karmic debt.

 

Those who see their nature and abide in presence perpetually resultant in the clarity of selfless stabilization do not go along with viewpoints because views are relative to the imaginary identity.

 

Your ignorant viewpoint has not changed since the last time you posed your intellectually biased reasoning in the face of the inconceivable a few years ago.

 

Jesus said it right when he uttered that you must give up your (false) life to enter into the kingdom of god. Christian teaching is an oxymoron. Jesus Christ has never been recognized for his straightforward enlightening teaching.

 

BTW, the kingdom of god is a euphemism for seeing reality and living free of karmic evolution. But you want your subjective choice, huh? That's the only choice you had to make because your default choice was made without even knowing there is another choice. That's the one that frees you from delusion. Yet in your ignorance you claim that enlightening beings have creation to look outside of!! There is only one mind and it is uncreated. Mind is the seat of awareness. Your own mind that sees (such as it does) is already uncreated.

 

You insist on using your thieving conscious awareness relative to an imaginary self to determine (for yourself) what other subjective choices there are that must be sacrificed in order to reach a viewpoint that is already unattributable and inherent (not to mention the fact that you have yet to awaken to it).

 

Enlightening being is not subjective. Your own enlightening being is not the person. Mind only knows. It doesn't think.

 

You cannot grasp, much less comprehend inconceivability with the intellectual apparatus relative to the mind that thinks.

 

Ya gotta be able to drop it at will and pick it up at will. THAT'S FREEDOM. You are abusing the purpose of a mere mental functionary subjective capacity as the mind itself. Your thinking mind is not who you are and YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.

 

Jesus also said "I am the light". That is what you are.

 

I am the light. I know it. Why don't you know you are the light?

 

That's the same as saying "Why don't you recognize reality?

 

You don't see reality because of your subjective personalistic views relative to an ignorant intellectual fallacy you think exists.

 

Since your point of view is utterly myopic, you believe there is no other kind of awareness.

 

Pity.

[goldisheavy]

People who are afraid of missing out on anything cannot step over eternity.

Duh. That's kind of half the point of what I was trying to say. The other half of my point is that what you call "stepping over eternity" is just a personal choice which is not objectively superior to any other alternative you can exercise.

You don't have the choice, dear.

You have a choice.

Looking outside creation is a confused terminology— the subject of this thread is the perspective of the uncreated itself.

I love talking about perspectives. Perspectives are the very essence of subjectivity.

Enlightening being is not subjective.

Whom are you trying to convince?

Edited August 13, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Bearded Dragon]

Nah, no choice. Your brain will do what your brain will do. There is only the illusion of choice. Your brain will always work things out the same based on its current structure and current external conditions. Thinking about something is the illusion of choice in the same manner that a computer has to do processing and eventually arrive at an inevitable outcome based on what it knows.

 

You're just along for the ride whether you like it or not. This is going along with creation. Unless you break from creation you never really have any choice.

[goldisheavy]

Nah, no choice. Your brain will do what your brain will do. There is only the illusion of choice. Your brain will always work things out the same based on its current structure and current external conditions. Thinking about something is the illusion of choice in the same manner that a computer has to do processing and eventually arrive at an inevitable outcome based on what it knows.

 

You're just along for the ride whether you like it or not. This is going along with creation. Unless you break from creation you never really have any choice.

 

The brain is just a hallucination. There is no brain. Only mind.

[Bearded Dragon]

The brain is just a hallucination. There is no brain. Only mind.

 

No kidding. haha.

 

The point is that most people are stuck thinking in the brain. In the illusion, and bound by its limitations and without such a morsel of choice in any circumstances.

 

I sort of agree that the illusion must agree to approach enlightenment, in a way. But it's kind of tricked into doing so, and again there is no choice on its behalf. Subjectivity is part of the illusion. Your apparent point of view is not real. It doesn't mean anything and does not exist.

[goldisheavy]

No kidding. haha.

 

The point is that most people are stuck thinking in the brain. In the illusion, and bound by its limitations and without such a morsel of choice in any circumstances.

 

I sort of agree that the illusion must agree to approach enlightenment, in a way. But it's kind of tricked into doing so, and again there is no choice on its behalf. Subjectivity is part of the illusion. Your apparent point of view is not real. It doesn't mean anything and does not exist.

 

This is where you are confused. My point of view is not objectively real. It doesn't mean it's not real. Reality is not objective.

 

Your suggestions are worthless. You are dismissed.

[zanshin]

I don't know if people really make choices. They just do and think things and make up reasons for it.

[Phenomniverse]

haha!!❤ Ya, i stole the very last bit from Master Lu~ he winked!!

 

It took me a few read throughs but your original post was a goldmine of insight. Who else did you borrow bits of it from I wonder?

[Phenomniverse]

Belief in aspects of a surviving individual absolutism, whether it be a mystical abstraction or an independently originated self with an extra-existential spiritual separate identity (transmundane created soul) attributable to (?), is termed "eternalism", as there is something that lasts.

 

Belief in the ultimate destruction of a created self on whatever level it can be conceived in an overarching sense of futility is termed "nihilism", in that nothing lasts.

 

The reality is that nothing is created. Therefore life and death is the definition of karmic process, creative evolution, circumstantial causal relative existence. If one sees one's nature, it becomes evident that there is no such thing as anything.

 

If you conclude that 'there is no such thing as anything' (the emphasis in the quote above is mine), is this not also nihilism?

[deci belle]

Not when you see reality. If you don't see reality as is, in ordinary situations, you see delusion.

 

Please do not reason this out. If you don't have the basis and only make comparisons based on conventional logic, you are like a trapped cat, perhaps clever enough only to live in a trap.

 

As we live and breath in power, why do you live in your mental constructs?

 

Nothing does not even exist is the point. Nothing is included in things.

 

This is to aid those who can use the assistance in shedding delusion.

 

Are you one of those?

 

People, this is not about nihilism or eternalism. Just get over it.

 

When studying worldy things, one relies totally on verbal meanings and mental thoughts. But if you use verbal meanings and thoughts to study the world-transcending Dharma, you are way off. Didn't Buddha say so? —"This Dharma is not something that thought and discrimination can understand."

 

Why do the recreational philosophers ignore this fact perpetually? Because if they took this fact to heart, they would have to fold up their tents and scatter, unable to carry on their selfish intellectual self-serving pastime with each other and take up the task of absolute solitary responsibility for their individual actions— the first of which is accounting for the fact of one's own solitary birth and death~ and following that to its ultimate conception, in order to see one's own essential nature for oneself.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add 3rd paragraph and last two paragraphs

Edited August 14, 2014 by deci belle

[Phenomniverse]

 

This is to aid those who can use the assistance in shedding delusion.

 

Are you one of those?

 

Yes, sometimes. I mean sometimes I'm in the experience of recognizing reality, and sometimes I'm not. And sometimes I'm not sure if I'm experiencing it or just having an idea about it. The experience itself doesn't seem to preclude the arising of ideas and sometimes the experience fades but the ideas remain. Other times, having ideas can lead into the experience of recognition too. My point is that it is sensible to be clear if your ideas are tending towards nihilism or towards eternalism (they'll be going in one of those directions) because in those moments when your not in the experience of recognition your ideas about it are going to be guiding you, hopefully back towards the direct recognition of reality. So I think its good to be clear in the realm of ideas. What about you?

[dawei]

The reality is that nothing is created. Therefore life and death is the definition of karmic process, creative evolution, circumstantial causal relative existence. If one sees one's nature, it becomes evident that there is no such thing as anything.

 

In my crude way of thinking, it is similar to hold a chain... just one continuous cause on some level; No need to consider where on the chain one it; it is neither here nor there. Ergo, forget the chain as it simply is part of the image we are trying to create to understand what we think we're holding (ie: who we are, what we perceive, etc).

[deci belle]

Yes, and when it is seen as just as it is without possibilities to manipulate, one needn't entertain the wellspring of privateering. Since this totality has nothing to grasp, the neurosis of separateness is what enables speculative ventures engendering karmic involvement and subsequent attachments to outcomes.

 

Phenomniverse… DROP YOUR POINT. THIS IS NEITHER THE ONE NOR THE OTHER OF THE TWO EXTREMES.

 

This is not philosophy. That's a nice topic, I suppose, but that topic is not this topic. Address the topic or start another nice thread about your topic.

 

DECI DOES BEYOND CONVENTION. Do ponder where you are coming up short in terms of this arena if you want to benefit by awakening to your own inherent nature.

 

As for sometimes… that's the way it is. Actually it's more like occasionally, at best— or even more rarely for those who have no notion to recognize reality as themselves unencumbered by a separate self that thinks up ideas to speculate on and potential to manipulate for self-gratification.

 

Seeing reality is permanent. There is nothing to it. When one begins to see that there is nothing whatsoever to the reality you see with your own eyes, then you begin to see what the nature of stabilization of unified awareness is.

 

Would you care to address that?

[goldisheavy]

Yes, and when it is seen as just as it is without possibilities to manipulate, one needn't entertain the wellspring of privateering. Since this totality has nothing to grasp, the neurosis of separateness is what enables speculative ventures engendering karmic involvement and subsequent attachments to outcomes.

 

The problem is, possibilities are essential to all cognition and are ineliminable from experience.

 

For example, I only know the location of my keyboard on the table because I am aware of other possible locations for it. Without those other possible locations the present location would make no sense at all.

 

The only way to rid oneself of possibilities and imagination is by willfully ignoring them.

[Phenomniverse]

Phenomniverse… DROP YOUR POINT.

 

Ok.

 

 

Would you care to address that?

 

All of language is simile and metaphor. What words could strike to the heart of it? And yet, all words, all possibilities, all experiences are supported and sustained by 'it', have their ground and being in 'it'. Diversity doesn't contradict unity, unity doesn't reduce diversity. How we ever stray from recognition is a mystery.