Recognizing Reality

[dawei]

If not one not two then you need to use more than two fingers to count them. Unless, of course, there are none.

 

Search this link for a third perspective

[3bob]

All the traditions of mental hygiene necessitate years of serious single-minded study before even entering into supervised meditation practice.

 

Only after this kind of penetration into the nature of mind is it possible to talk about the problems encountered and the practice of self-refinement as it applies to clarifying the human mentality.

 

I never had the opportunity to ask or tell anybody anything ever.

 

Please don't show up unprepared to my threads unless you plan to do a lot of reading and referencing without feeling it is necessary to post. It really isn't fair to those who post only after considerable reflection beforehand.

 

It is hopefully obvious that the old-timers are extremely guilty of this and probably won't ever do what is necessary to change their habits in this regard.

 

The requirements are no different for beginners than they are for those set in their ways: one must WANT to change in order to manifest the world-honored result.

 

The reason it is not good enough to believe is because there is nothing to believe.

 

Though reality is the scene before one's eyes, it does not involve the sense-gates.

 

Read the rules Deci, (for you do not make them) and as long as we, us and those that you don't approve of are close to within those rules then any posts including yours are fair game... if you can't abide by that then go somewhere else to set yourself and your school up.

Edited August 22, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

Yes. It's all One. Time is an illusion too - it's all here and now. We are all each other, including Jesus and Buddha. Not all of us are in awareness of it, though. Jesus was, so was the Buddha. The whole thing is just Awareness.

 

Hello Manitou,

On the soul level (and other levels) I'd say we are not all each other for at that level we are all unique weavings of light...but for what could be called the Ocean level there is then only an ocean of undifferentiated and unwoven light. Also, can "reality" be connected to illusion and if so then how? (along the lines of the how can the Tao be connected to the Ten Thousand if the Ten Thousand are comparatively labeled or seen as illusion?)

[deci belle]

Though reality is the scene before one's eyes, it does not involve the sense-gates.

 

An ancient worthy said, " Just comprehend nothingness in the midst of things, unconcern amidst concerns: when seeing forms and hearing sounds, don't act blind and deaf." Another ancient worthy said, "Fools remove objects but don't obliterate mind; the wise wipe out mind without removing objects."

 

"Gentlemen of affairs are quick to want to understand Chan. They think a lot about the scriptural teachings and the sayings of the ancestral teachers, wanting to be able to explain clearly [to satisfy their delusional proclivities]. They are far from knowing that his clarity is nonetheless an unclear matter. "…I teach gentlemen of affairs to let go and make themselves dull…"

 

Yet they manage to go on and on (especially the dull ones) to glow all the brighter with utterly off-topic philosophical observations.

 

That is a wonderful link, dawei.❤︎

 

 

ed note: add last line. The first two paragraphs are from Ta Hui's letters in Swampland Flowers, translated by J.C. Cleary.

Edited August 22, 2014 by deci belle

[Infinity]

What you are calling mind as the believing, questioning, self-reifying consciousness is delusion, conscious awareness. It would be safer and clearer to refer to this thieving ego-identified human mentality as something other than mind (unless you attach qualifications).

 

I agree my definition of 'mind' was poor but i feel my understanding is correct.

 

I don't feel I can think less necessarily but mearly understand that the ego 'i" is false and be present in the conciousness / mind 'I' through no effort what so ever other than understanding. Where attention goes energy flows and gradually maybe the ego "i" will drop away, wither and play no part and have no power? And this understanding I guess is self realisation and paradoxically it is the simplest thing and yet seemingly dificult.

 

Regarding cultivation. Nothing can be cultivated, there is nothing to cultivate. I am I and can not be more or less. But please forgive me because although I know this I will only leave the boat that never got me here when I am identifying with the radiance a little more.

 

Big love to all. :-)

 

∞

Edited August 22, 2014 by Infinity

[3bob]

In other words Infinity is your meaning that an atom (so to speak) that is indivisible and indestructible can not be "cultivated" into something essentially different than that?

 

I'd say mind is like a lenses that thinks it sees, but the seer that uses it knows better.

 

Big hugs also ;-)

[manitou]

Hello Manitou,

On the soul level (and other levels) I'd say we are not all each other for at that level we are all unique weavings of light...but for what could be called the Ocean level there is then only an ocean of undifferentiated and unwoven light. Also, can "reality" be connected to illusion and if so then how? (along the lines of the how can the Tao be connected to the Ten Thousand if the Ten Thousand are comparatively labeled or seen as illusion?)

 

I would say that the I Am of me is the same as the I Am of you. It's just a question of choosing to get down to it - the pony under the manure pile.

Edited August 22, 2014 by manitou

[3bob]

Ok, I could have made that more clear by saying at the level of identification with soul we are not the same weaving but at the level of Ocean identification we are the same without even a we to mention such...

 

Still, The "Tao gave birth to the One", so is the One to be seen as a manure pile? Does a good mother see and treat her child as a manure pile? Nope.

[Wu Ming Jen]

An ocean wave arises and droplets of the wave form a shape before crashing back into the sea. For a moment the droplet is independent has its own form, it came from the sea and returns to the sea.

 

These short moments of having a body and a self as in being different from its surroundings is why my human mind is dumb. The shinning mind sees through the things of the world. Body might give birth to material attraction and miss the rest of the picture not seen by temporary eyes..

[deci belle]

Ok, Infinity~

 

Where attention goes energy flows and gradually maybe the ego "i" will drop away, wither and play no part and have no power?

 

The term cultivation is a device to be employed when effective. Not-doing is basically cultivation from the start.

 

Virtuous attention is open sincere intent, impersonal, with no object. 360˚ focusless focus.

 

The ego dropping off is realization of essential nature.

 

Ego-consciousness, the human mentality, is a necessary function, not the identity of the self.

 

Seeing one's nature is recognizing the basis. When the function of conditioned conscious awareness is recognized for what it is, and is utilized according to its proper capacity, the functional basis of one's inherent enlightening being is free to adapt to situations automatically.

 

I appreciate your struggle to articulate this subject. It takes a long time to work it out.❤︎

[3bob]

I'd say that "mind", shining or otherwise is a dualistic device and nothing more, mind is not the truth or Ocean that is beyond the dualistic realms, the best it can do is go still so that Spirit meets Spirit without being drawn off into identification with another mental thought realm adventure.

Edited August 22, 2014 by 3bob

[manitou]

Ok, I could have made that more clear by saying at the level of identification with soul we are not the same weaving but at the level of Ocean identification we are the same without even a we to mention such...

 

Still, The "Tao gave birth to the One", so is the One to be seen as a manure pile? Does a good mother see and treat her child as a manure pile? Nope.

 

I wouldn't have thought you'd have a problem with metaphors, 3bob?

[Wu Ming Jen]

I'd say that "mind", shining or otherwise is a dualistic device and nothing more, mind is not the truth or Ocean that is beyond the dualistic realms, the best it can do is go still so that Spirit meets Spirit without being drawn off into identification with another mental thought realm adventure.

I am pointing at the non conceptual. Verbiage comes up short. experience identifies with the metaphors and words used. The mind is a tool put down the tool when you are done. I am using some terms from the complete reality school like shinning mind for instance.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Wu Ming Jen

[deci belle]

Mind is not subject to your thoughts, bob. You actually don't know anything at all pertaining to your speculations.

 

And that's what your attachment to rules will get you.

 

You actually do not have an affinity with Virtue sufficient to see the error of your insistence in your personalistic views based on something much less than an impersonal sincere open intent that has the power to facilitate a change in your ability to effect a revolution in your habitual consciousness.

 

No one owes you the time of day based on your present ability to insist on a view based on ignorance— nobody owes me anything based on my realization and expression of the effective application of spiritual subtle operation independent of convention.

 

I suggest you rise to the occasion of aspiration to the rules I abide by and screw the weak usage of convention you are presently couch-surfing to maintain a habitual presence in the world.

[deci belle]

Haven't we given bob more attention than he deserves?

 

This is the OP.

 

The recognition of reality as the totality of one's self is abiding in the presence of an immediate and perpetual result without cause as is. This is not dependent on circumstances, it is proven by them.

 

Simply believing this is not good enough.

 

Proving it in actual affairs is clarifying the basis of potential in terms of each created cycle.

 

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. Passing through, things are as they are without making arrangements.

 

This is because the basis is inherent in creation.

 

In not going along, good and bad cease to exist.

 

The proof is arriving at the result of inevitability over and over and over.

 

When you find out what happened in the end, yin and yang have yet to act.

 

This is sameness, neither lasting nor destroyed.

 

It seems silly to mention this, but I still don't know.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add the OP

Edited August 22, 2014 by deci belle

[3bob]

Mind is not subject to your thoughts, bob. You actually don't know anything at all pertaining to your speculations.

 

And that's what your attachment to rules will get you.

 

You actually do not have an affinity with Virtue sufficient to see the error of your insistence in your personalistic views based on something much less than an impersonal sincere open intent that has the power to facilitate a change in your ability to effect a revolution in your habitual consciousness.

 

No one owes you the time of day based on your present ability to insist on a view based on ignorance— nobody owes me anything based on my realization and expression of the effective application of spiritual subtle operation independent of convention.

 

I suggest you rise to the occasion of aspiration to the rules I abide by and screw the weak usage of convention you are presently couch-surfing to maintain a habitual presence in the world.

 

You've got to be kidding but you are not...your true colors are obvious to any who can see them, thus will I kiss your ass or follow your rules? - hell no.

[3bob]

Haven't we given bob more attention than he deserves?

 

This is the OP.

 

The recognition of reality as the totality of one's self is abiding in the presence of an immediate and perpetual result without cause as is. This is not dependent on circumstances, it is proven by them.

 

Simply believing this is not good enough.

 

Proving it in actual affairs is clarifying the basis of potential in terms of each created cycle.

 

If one accomplishes anything, it is not real. Passing through, things are as they are without making arrangements.

 

This is because the basis is inherent in creation.

 

In not going along, good and bad cease to exist.

 

The proof is arriving at the result of inevitability over and over and over.

 

When you find out what happened in the end, yin and yang have yet to act.

 

This is sameness, neither lasting nor destroyed.

 

It seems silly to mention this, but I still don't know.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add the OP

 

Surely you do not want to control the minds of others, but wait yes you do as demonstrated by your silly and sick put downs of whoever does not fit your into your court.

Edited August 22, 2014 by 3bob

[3bob]

I wouldn't have thought you'd have a problem with metaphors, 3bob?

 

considering this board and its members are all over the map with metaphors from multiple traditions and various meanings (including myself to whatever degree or anyone else including yourself then such should not be a surprise, besides I'm not trying to in effect set up and run a school like our op.

[GrandmasterP]

ed note: Ignored Deci.

 

Job jobbed.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Wu Ming Jen]

They way to direct transcendence with out secondary methods is a very high art indeed. I am here because of threads of this nature were there is nothing to learn or control or the ten thousand other attachments It just brings light and I dance to the soundless sound.

[3bob]

I am pointing at the non conceptual. Verbiage comes up short. experience identifies with the metaphors and words used. The mind is a tool put down the tool when you are done. I am using some terms from the complete reality school like shinning mind for instance.

 

ok, that's cool, and I see we have some agreement about the mind being a tool... which would seem to be a different connotation than "shining mind" as you used earlier, but I don't know what you would say to that since the correlation I would now make after reading your follow up is that shinning mind alludes to Spirit.? (which would not be mind as tool, along with knowing that mind has no light of its own although it is shinned through when clear and still)

Edited August 22, 2014 by 3bob

[deci belle]

What a wonderful comment, Wu Ming Jen!!❤︎

 

The shining mind is empty of the human mentality.

 

The human mentality is thoughts relative to the personality.

 

When thoughts relative to the personality are in their rightful place, the function of ego consciousness is a tool.

 

 

 

ed note: add ed note~ hahahhahahhahhaa!! I get cut out of my own thread!! hhahhahahhahahh!!

Edited August 23, 2014 by deci belle

[manitou]

I think shining mind refers to the glow of the manifestation from the inside to the outside.

[deci belle]

In Complete Reality terminology, the shining mind is the basis of stable awareness, not the conscious awareness momentarily empty of its habitual contents that beginners often mistake for the shining mind. In terms of meditation, the shining mind is insight, brought to the fore by subtle concentration in the midst of ordinary circumstances. The shining mind is open awareness, nonpsychological immediate knowledge of reality as is. Recognizing reality is wordless insight into actualities as they are without notions of existential personality considerations. This is bypassing thought differentiating psychological ramifications and outcomes relative to self and other.

 

The scattered mind is its reference point in the ancient Complete Reality glossaries representing the roving human mentality. The human mentality becomes the shining mind when it forgets its reifying mental patterns.

 

The recognition of reality as the totality of one's self is abiding in the presence of an immediate and perpetual result without cause as is. This is not dependent on circumstances, it is proven by them.

Edited August 24, 2014 by deci belle

[GrandmasterP]

I think shining mind refers to the glow of the manifestation from the inside to the outside.

 

It's a Hindu cult too....

http://www.shiningworld.com/Books%20Pages/HTML%20Books/Self-Knowledge.htm