Recognizing Reality

[Daeluin]

If one is truly achieved, why would they be stuck in one way of delivery, when they can easily see the cracks between the chinks and adjust their position to affect a well placed blow from an unexpected angle that is certain to be efficacious and avoid the misery of all this annoying bemoaning of conflict and friction.

 

Communication without adaptation grows lazy and barnacles begin to grow.

[3bob]

I love the soul of the Earth and breathe through Her Sacred being and beauty, I even love that little Bob character and all the rest and breathe through them by any means possible...

Edited August 29, 2014 by 3bob

[deci belle]

If you were achieved yourself, Daeluin, why would you ask?

 

I know, so I don't ask.

[deci belle]

Bearded Dragon wrote:

…further defining the point of "no separate self"

 

Actually this is the key to recognizing reality.

 

No separate self is reality.

 

Seeing this is enlightening activity's function of not acting on behalf of views attached to outcomes based on speculative relationships with the world.

 

Not entertaining opportunistic ideas relative to habitual cravings and subtle psychological patterns is freedom from karmic evolution.

 

As for reincarnation~ that's not my problem at all. Why? To be concerned with that concept occurring in the future is delusion, and I'm present. Reincarnation is right now. Don't follow creation now and there is no creation to go along with now.

 

If you are free now, you'll be free at the moment of your death.

 

When recognition of reality is stabilized in terms of everyday ordinary affairs, potential is recognized as the real essence comprising form, and awareness itself is recognized as one's own presence of selfless intent, pure and whole, spontaneously ready, yet always resting in stillness, not predisposed, therefore without bias or inclination. This is freedom from karmic energies.

 

For the eternalists in the crowd (those who imagine themselves to have a separate soul/originated identity— oh, and one for each planet, star, asteroid, phytoplankton and each solitary disease-vector, no doubt), the above should clue you into the fact that emptiness is it. If you don't see that, and even if you do, it doesn't explain anything. All I'm doing here is describing reality. If you can't see it as it is, don't blame me. Potential is uncreated (duh), and awareness is uncreated (see your nature and get down with that). So what's left to be you? Answer: not even nothing. Why? Nothing doesn't exist.

 

Bottom line: it's a mystery. When you see your nature, the mystery becomes you. Even before that, inconceivability engulfs you and everyday ordinary affairs become you too.

 

For those who do not know situations as themselves and entertain outcomes relative to self and other, where's the mystery in that? All you can see is changes as you are swept along in your bondage to karmic evolution.

 

The classics of the authentic teachings are about NOT GOING ALONG WITH CREATION.

 

The classics can only be appreciated for what they are after enlightenment. After all, they were written by ones who were thus.

 

So don't feel too bad. I suggest the brighter bulbs get wise without further ado.

[Daeluin]

The classics of the authentic teachings are about NOT GOING ALONG WITH CREATION.

 

That's kinda my point: Conflict is a form of going along with creation. It creates ripples by inviting reaction - hard to avoid when making public statements unless they are phrased carefully.

 

The way affecting change in a hidden way avoids creation. I see many here able to make bold statements that invite little if any reaction.

 

Also - thanks for the note about questions! Yep, despite not having a question mark and being rhetorical, it was still inviting separation. I used to have lots of questions. Now I find I already have the answers within, so the asking is a form of escapism.

[deci belle]

Are you imagining yourself not following along with creation by attaching your facetious innocent bystander status to me without knowing it? That is a dubious distinction. You are not an innocent bystander.

 

I am a power unto myself dear. Do get used to it.

 

I respond, but you get caught up in judgements of conflict.

 

I have no conflict with conflict.

 

I kick ass as appropriate.

 

WOULD YOU CLOWNS DARE TO ADDRESS THE OP?

[Daeluin]

Oh dear, I hope I didn't imply I am anything but what I am!

 

I guess I smelled fresh blood and wandered on over. That's kinda what happens. Power invites power.... just part of the natural flow of things.

 

Can you recognize the reality in this?

[deci belle]

Can you address the OP?

 

If you can't, consider yourself an imitator by default. Why? Imitators follow (fresh blood in this case) their fascinations without addressing the reality unawares due to a lackadaisical undisciplined mentality.

 

You just got sliced right down to your ying-yang, kid. Don't do that.

 

Like pretending to be an innocent bystander and slowing down to look at an accident, and fucking up the works in the process. Fucking up the works is a subtlety tourists can't fathom. It's called being afraid to miss out on something~ not exactly the model of independence.

 

What's the harm? Your independence. How? Following your idle fascinations mindlessly. This is a critical factor. Perhaps you will come to discover its significance.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add everything below the first line

Edited August 30, 2014 by deci belle

[beyonder]

WOULD YOU CLOWNS DARE TO ADDRESS THE OP?

 

Umm, who are you talking to?

[deci belle]

Next.

[beyonder]

No, really, who are you talking to? It's just you in a room in front of a computer. These are lines of text on your computerscreen. When you respond, I'm not really there to listen. I'll probably only read your message at a later date. Maybe, if I can be assed. So, I ask again. Who are you talking to? Since you seem to get awfully worked up about it...

[deci belle]

haha~ good one, really!!

 

Next.

[Daeluin]

Can you address the OP?

 

I pretty much already did. The full linked quote of Zhuangzi in #123 describes my approach to recognizing reality. Below I've pasted a different selection from this chapter, more pointedly answering the OP.

 

If you can't, consider yourself an imitator by default. Why? Imitators follow (fresh blood in this case) their fascinations without addressing the reality unawares due to a lackadaisical undisciplined mentality.

 

Some Taoists tend towards wandering, and follow where the Tao leads them. Often they are led to where various powers converge - and so it seems rather presumptuous to declare all those ending up in a convergence to be followers of fascination.

 

You just got sliced right down to your ying-yang, kid. Don't do that.

 

Don't worry, kid, I feel just fine.

 

Like pretending to be an innocent bystander and slowing down to look at an accident, and fucking up the works in the process. Fucking up the works is a subtlety tourists can't fathom. It's called being afraid to miss out on something~ not exactly the model of independence.

 

Zhuangzi speaks of the Butcher whose knife never dulls, precisely due to the adaptation of one's perception of pace, in effect "slowing down" so as to better see the situation, at which point all manner of openings are evident in what previously had appeared to be a closed way.

 

This is the first thread of yours I've stepped into. Please pardon my intrusion, but I did not begin the derailing, and rather than fucking things up, I attempted to point out how posts like #11 tend to do that all on their own. I've come across several of your threads derailed in one way or another.

 

Thus I clearly examined the basis of potential in terms of the various cycles of your derailed threads - passing through, without making arrangements, simply being as I am, and finding an opportunity to point out evidence of unnecessary creation to one who is advocating the importance of practicing the avoidance of unnecessary creation.

 

goldisheavy invited a subtler look at the futility of projecting an absolute perspective upon what lies beyond our ability to discern. Rather than seeing his subtlety in its far-looking invitation, it was presumed to be a nearsighted statement and all manner of insult and judgment upon his state of evolution ensued. This was unnecessary creation, and went beyond the hope of correction of misunderstanding.

 

What's the harm? Your independence. How? Following your idle fascinations mindlessly. This is a critical factor. Perhaps you will come to discover its significance.

 

I don't recall stating myself to be following idle fascinations mindlessly. How nice of you to project that upon me. The Sages encourage one to follow the flow of tao, and thus to be constantly placed in front of what one needs for their present development. The more one is able to progress in avoidance of controlling their situation, the greater the synchronization with the tao. This is a truth proven to me in the manner of the OP in every moment.

 

I am not interested in taking sides, and I hope this is not mistaken for feigning innocence. But I am doing my darnedest to avoid making any statements I am not sincerely willing to discuss, as people tend to react to the things most easily reacted to, often avoiding the true essence of the discussion in favor of a surface level gotcha. Naturally in a post this long that won't be avoided.

 

So... even as we rest in the midst of reality, the cycles of yin and yang affect their changes, and do our best to maintain equanimity. I agree with goldisheavy, and Zhuangzi - we cannot speak but in subjectivity, despite our presumed awareness of reality. Who are we to say there is not a further level in operation? When the understanding consciousness comes to rest in what it does not know, has it not reached its utmost?

 

Again, Book Ziporyn, Zhuangzi, Ch 2. The full quote in the link is relevant, but the gist is posted below:

 

Now I will try some words here about "this." But I don't know if it belongs in the same category as "this" or not. For belonging in a category and not belonging in that category themselves form a single category! Being similar is so similar to being dissimilar! So there is finally no way to keep it different from "That."

 

Nevertheless, let me try to say it. There is a beginning. There is a not-yet-beginning-to-be-a-beginning. There is a not-yet-beginning-to-not-yet-begin-to-be-a-beginning. There is existence. There is nonexistence. There is a not-yet-beginning-to-be-nonexistence. There is a not-yet-beginning-to-not-yet-beginning-to-be-nonexistence. Suddenly there is nonexistence. But I do not-yet know whether "the existence of nonexistence" is ultimately existence or nonexistence.

 

Now I have said something. But I do not-yet know: has what I have said really said anything? Or has it not really said anything?

 

Nothing in the world is larger than the tip of a hair in autumn, and Mt. Tai is small. No one lives longer than a dead child, and old Pengzu died an early death. Heaven and earth are born together with me, and the ten thousand things and I are one.

 

But if we are all one, can there be any words? But since I have already declared that we are "one," can there be no words? The one and the word are already two, and the two and the original unnamed one are three. Going on like this, even a skilled chronicler could not keep up with it, not to mention a lesser man. So even moving from nonexistence to existence we already arrive at three - how much more when we move from existence to existence! Rather than moving from anywhere to anywhere, then, let us just go by the rightness of whatever is before us as the present "this."

 

Now, courses have never had any sealed borders between them, and words have never had any constant sustainability. It is by establishing definitions of what is "this," what is "right," that boundaries are made. Let me explain what I mean by boundaries: There are right and left, then there are classes of things and ideas of the proper responses to them, then there are roles and disputes, then there are competitions and struggles. Let's call these the Eight Virtues!

As for the sage, he may admit that something exists beyond the six limits of the known world, but he does not further discuss it.

As for what is within the known world, he will discuss it but not express an opinion on it. As for historical events, he will give an opinion but not debate it. For wherever a division is made, something is left undivided. Wherever debate shows one of two alternatives to be right,

something remains undistinguished

and unshown. What is it? The sage hides it in his embrace, while the masses of people debate it, trying to demonstrate it to one another. Thus I say that demonstration by debate always leaves something unseen.

 

The Great Course is unproclaimed. Great demonstration uses no words. Great humanity is not humane. Great rectitude is not fastidious. Great courage is not invasive. For when the Course becomes explicit, it ceases to be the Course. When words demonstrate by debate, they fail to communicate. When Humanity is constantly sustained, it cannot reach its maturity. When rectitude is pure, it cannot extend itself to others. When courage is invasive, it cannot succeed.

These five are originally round, but they are forced toward squareness.

 

Hence, when the understanding consciousness comes to rest in what it does not know, it has reached its utmost.

The demonstration that uses no words, the Course that is not a course - who "understands" these things? If there is something able to "understand" them [in this sense], it can be called the Heavenly Reservoir - poured into without ever getting full, ladled out of without ever running out, ever not-knowing its own source.

 

This is called the Shadowy Splendor.

[dawei]

Next.

 

 

The flower sermon...

 

Deci is holding flower and waiting to see who simply smiles back

 

Is this the smile of the flower or of a man?

 

The deep rationalistic says it is a hand holding up the entire world... as Atlas on his back...

 

It is really just a beautiful dead flower in an empty hand... it is tapping our perceptions/senses... Are we going to bite?

 

such ideas still 'separate' us all...

[JustARandomPanda]

...

Edited September 1, 2014 by JustARandomPanda

[Phenomniverse]

 

When recognition of reality is stabilized in terms of everyday ordinary affairs, potential is recognized as the real essence comprising form, and awareness itself is recognized as one's own presence of selfless intent, pure and whole, spontaneously ready, yet always resting in stillness, not predisposed, therefore without bias or inclination. This is freedom from karmic energies.

 

"stabilized in terms of ordinary affairs" = the prolonged subtle concentration vis a vis your 'wearing out old shoes' metaphor.

You've characterised stability earlier as a quality of the recognition of reality itself. When I talk about stability, I'm thinking of a continuity of the recognition which in my own experience tend to be short-lived and occasional. There is a need for some sort of process to facilitate the development of this continuity. Is the deliberate attempt to come back to it again and again sufficient? Is the cultivation of other methods appropriate? "Cultivation" implies the dichotomous perspective that needs to be abandoned, and yet without a method or intent how can this work unfold?

[Infinity]

I have been practicing mindfulness with quite a bit of more diligence than I have ever done prior. Seriously folks - if you are not doing this I very highly recommend it! Never in my life would I dream this simple and oh so easy to do daily practice would bring such powerful and amazing results! Please consider including this as a daily practice along with any other Taoist energy practices you do if you don't already.

 

From my understanding it seems like your 'mindfulness' method is similar to Sri Ramana Maharshi's self enquiry method which is holding on to the awareness of being what you already are and eventually when the 'i' stops for longer and longer the truth of the self is revealed.

 

Have been coming back to this recently and can see the truth in it, logically it seems very direct.

 

"Beginners in self-enquiry were advised by Sri Ramana to put their attention on the inner feeling of I and to hold that feeling as long as possible. They would be told that if their attention was distracted by other thoughts they should revert to awareness of the I-thought whenever they became aware that their attention had wandered.

 

The above can be found here: http://bhagavan-ramana.org/selfenquirypractice.html

 

∞

Edited August 30, 2014 by Infinity

[joeblast]

"stabilized in terms of ordinary affairs" = the prolonged subtle concentration vis a vis your 'wearing out old shoes' metaphor.

You've characterised stability earlier as a quality of the recognition of reality itself. When I talk about stability, I'm thinking of a continuity of the recognition which in my own experience tend to be short-lived and occasional. There is a need for some sort of process to facilitate the development of this continuity. Is the deliberate attempt to come back to it again and again sufficient? Is the cultivation of other methods appropriate? "Cultivation" implies the dichotomous perspective that needs to be abandoned, and yet without a method or intent how can this work unfold?

what is mindfulness but the deliberate attempt to extend beyond short lived and occasional?

[Phenomniverse]

what is mindfulness but the deliberate attempt to extend beyond short lived and occasional?

Yep, you're right. But mindfulness in the sense elucidated in the satipatthana sutta doesn't really bear on the recognition of reality here under discussion until its latest stages. It represents a systematic and progressive practice leading to a definite outcome. Hence it participates in dichotomous thinking predicated on notions of an intrinsically existing entity interacting with an extrinsically existing world. Whereas the direct pointing out as per the OP cuts through that dualism and establishes a point of recognition immediately. The question is, how does one cultivate and sustain that recognition without falling back into a dichotomous perspective? Or without falling into 'stages and levels'?

[GrandmasterP]

Yep, you're right. But mindfulness in the sense elucidated in the satipatthana sutta doesn't really bear on the recognition of reality here under discussion until its latest stages. It represents a systematic and progressive practice leading to a definite outcome. Hence it participates in dichotomous thinking predicated on notions of an intrinsically existing entity interacting with an extrinsically existing world. Whereas the direct pointing out as per the OP cuts through that dualism and establishes a point of recognition immediately. The question is, how does one cultivate and sustain that recognition without falling back into a dichotomous perspective? Or without falling into 'stages and levels'?

+1

It's all duality at bottom.

Anyone claiming to have arrived at " Point E" immediately albeit usually silently has imagined into being both that 'Point E' at which they claim to have arrived PLUS a whole group of others who have yet to arrive at 'Point E'.

Pure duality.

Edited August 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[JustARandomPanda]

...

Edited September 1, 2014 by JustARandomPanda

[joeblast]

Yep, you're right. But mindfulness in the sense elucidated in the satipatthana sutta doesn't really bear on the recognition of reality here under discussion until its latest stages. It represents a systematic and progressive practice leading to a definite outcome. Hence it participates in dichotomous thinking predicated on notions of an intrinsically existing entity interacting with an extrinsically existing world. Whereas the direct pointing out as per the OP cuts through that dualism and establishes a point of recognition immediately. The question is, how does one cultivate and sustain that recognition without falling back into a dichotomous perspective? Or without falling into 'stages and levels'?

but I wasnt talking about the satipatthana sutta, I was responding to your words

your question's answer is merely, build habit energies.

[JustARandomPanda]

...

Edited September 1, 2014 by JustARandomPanda

[deci belle]

It's the tag-team matron contingent again! Panda and RV. We're just missing miss Kitty!! Have you removed anyone's posts from your querey-based threads lately, hmmm?

 

How nice. Until you can work with the nonoriginated, how can you rest in it? In your case, Panda, the reason you will never be tenured is because you do not work with original material. Just sayin'…❤︎

 

 

That's how the cookies crumble.

This is how the…

 

 

FLOWERS FALL

 

What is manifest

Is itself absolute reality

What lies at one's feet

Is this complete reality in one foot.

 

One's whole mind and body of creation

Has never once suffered existence:

Shining all along~

Following the heart's desire

without ever once

stepping outside the singular rhythm.

[JustARandomPanda]

...

Edited September 2, 2014 by JustARandomPanda