Cultivating when in pain

[Anoesjka]

Is it possible to meditate properly or do some other form of cultivation when you're in pain? Is pain something to go through, is it useful in self improvement? Also, did anyone have some form of pain that they didn't want to ask help for, because it feels selfish to do so?

[silent thunder]

I lived in chronic pain for over a decade... there wasn't active cultivating in any traditional sense for me during that time, though looking back I can see how it influenced my cultivation and there were all sorts of energetic processes going on without my direction.

 

I had several techniques I used for overwhelming the input senses to take away my ability to focus just on the pain when I was tired of pumping pain killers in my body.

[C T]

Yes, its possible.

 

The greater the pain, the more clarity there is. This is sometimes called the luminosity of what is.

 

This luminosity is the essence of awakening to truth. It can be derived from either source -- pain or pleasure.

 

The general tendency is to avoid pain, or do various things to alleviate the pain, to make it go away.

Conversely, people tend to crave and gravitate towards pleasure and painfreeness, usually doing their utmost to make these two states last as long as possible. Eventually things change, nothing lasts without taking off in a different direction after a while. When it does, people will think they are in pain again. The cycle repeats and repeats endlessly.

 

This is what leads to unsatisfactoriness, giving people a sense of being displaced without actually knowing why they feel that way most of the time.

 

Pain can be used as a practice to stay present.

It can also be used as a practice to transform one's ego clinging.

 

The best help for oneself is to practice seeing thru both pleasure and pain as nothing more than fleeting sensations.

Only when the actual source of non-differentiation is seen in & integrated in its proper light can transcendence of both take place.

 

 

 

me2shillings.

[ChiDragon]

I believe that part ot the cultivation process is to get rid of the pain.

[Anoesjka]

Thanks very much, CT, that is something useful and wise you have said. I will take your point of view as a personal advice if you don't mind, and use pain as an opportunity and an invitation to surrender (to divinity). I take a bow to your wisdom.

 

silent thunder, were you under the impression that it was necessary to have pain? Thanks in advance.

[Anoesjka]

I believe that part ot the cultivation process is to get rid of the pain.

 

Or maybe that is a side effect? Life is never without pain.

[silent thunder]

I don't know about necessary, it was unavoidable.

Though there were times, I could send myself into the center of the pain and it would cease to be a bother.

[GrandmasterP]

Cultivation is a great pain management tool.

It can take one's focus away from the pain which doesn't necessarily 'go away' but becomes less of an issue whilst cultivating.

That said a broken leg in a cast ( for example) can hinder some forms.

Edited August 11, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[ChiDragon]

Or maybe that is a side effect? Life is never without pain.

 

I believe what you are trying to say is that the pain was introduced from cultivation. What I am saying one with an initial pain need to be rid of by cultivation. There was no side effect about this.

[silent thunder]

which tradition is it that has nine heavens and the first is just the absence of any pain...?

[BaguaKicksAss]

How much pain are we talking here? I would say pain level 5 or less doesn't affect cultivation much at all in my experience (had varying levels of chronic pain my entire life). However pain levels 8 and above, I used to cheat and just go out of body and explore a lot. There was plenty of time to be in my body and experience this world just fine, and it was a better option than going into the hospital all the time for that crappy morpheme stuff (in my personal opinion).

 

It is a good cultivation practice though as you figure out what works to heal yourself, even if it is hereditary .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Cultivation is a great pain management tool.

It can take one's focus away from the pain which doesn't necessarily 'go away' but becomes less of an issue whilst cultivating.

That said a broken leg in a cast ( for example) can hinder some forms.

 

Oh there are some awesome one legged stances

[GrandmasterP]

I was thinking ...

" Search horizon and clouds" try playing that on one leg and over ya go.

Bump.

 

[4bsolute]

Is it possible to meditate properly or do some other form of cultivation when you're in pain? Is pain something to go through, is it useful in self improvement? Also, did anyone have some form of pain that they didn't want to ask help for, because it feels selfish to do so?

 

My God Self, here we go again..

 

The famous term Self-ish, great I cought that the second time today.

 

Clearly listen to your Gut Self. Does it tell you to do other exercises on top of your pain? Or does it tell you to rest? What do You, as it, feel?

 

Do you want to further condition your Self by going through that pain and putting something on top of it? Do you see a use in it to further improve your Self? Then DO it.

 

Do you want to relax your Self and let your own bodies higher intelligence regenerate it's Self so you can fully utilize your physical body again? Then DO it.

 

Do you feel something else that I have not mentioned? Then DO it.

 

All these Selves here including my Self are giving you their aspect, what they would do in a situation. Trust Your Self. No one can here give you an absolute answer. I had to realize this my Self aswell. If you want ultimate answers, meditate further to realize your Self into greater stages of consciousness (relation of different elements, their interaction, etc) to overlook where you currently are and what causes you pain.

 

What use has it to ask Selves in the maze, where the exit of the maze is? They can't tell you. Either you go further around in the maze or maybe you want to climb up the hedge instead?

 

Stop playing by the rules... please. Cheat and hack and use your own intuition

Edited August 11, 2014 by 4bsolute

[C T]

Thanks very much, CT, that is something useful and wise you have said. I will take your point of view as a personal advice if you don't mind, and use pain as an opportunity and an invitation to surrender (to divinity). I take a bow to your wisdom.

Thank you too, for being gracious and kind in response. _/\_

 

Although personally surrendering to divinity is not something i would practice nor understand too well, i think if that is what works to help in your transformation process, then by all means go fully into that to see if it works as a cultivation tool.

 

Just for clarification, in Vajrayana, which is my path, we are taught to embody divinity, not so much surrender to it as such.

 

I had noticed that one of your interests is Buddhism, so was wondering if you have ever come across a practice called Tonglen? Many practitioners of Tonglen have found that particular practice extremely effective when having to cope with debilitating illnesses/impending death where pain is quite often to the fore. A friend of mine, with MS, uses it as her main practice, and she has derived much benefit as a result.

 

If you are interested, i may be able to offer some links and book recommendations.

 

Blessings to you.

[Anoesjka]

 

I believe what you are trying to say is that the pain was introduced from cultivation. What I am saying one with an initial pain need to be rid of by cultivation. There was no side effect about this.

I didn't mean that, but in a way you're right. Very intuitive!

[Anoesjka]

Thank you too, for being gracious and kind in response. _/\_

 

Although personally surrendering to divinity is not something i would practice nor understand too well, i think if that is what works to help in your transformation process, then by all means go fully into that to see if it works as a cultivation tool.

 

Just for clarification, in Vajrayana, which is my path, we are taught to embody divinity, not so much surrender to it as such.

 

I had noticed that one of your interests is Buddhism, so was wondering if you have ever come across a practice called Tonglen? Many practitioners of Tonglen have found that particular practice extremely effective when having to cope with debilitating illnesses/impending death where pain is quite often to the fore. A friend of mine, with MS, uses it as her main practice, and she has derived much benefit as a result.

 

If you are interested, i may be able to offer some links and book recommendations.

 

Blessings to you.

 

I just googled Tonglen, having never heard of that. Very interesting, I would like to know more about that. I'm an omnivore in practices, keeping what works and throwing out that which doesn't. In my experience, the simpler and purer, the better.

[GreytoWhite]

Cultivation is the main tool I use for pain management. In the worst episodes of post-stroke recovery where my pain was debilitating I would focus on breath, micro-movement in the afflicted area, and relaxation.

[Bearded Dragon]

Getting rid of it or not getting rid of it is up to you. As has been mentioned it is a good tool for refinement. Normally our mind goes nuts when there is pain but it can be perfectly still even with immense pain going on in the body. It is almost a bit sadistic in that your mind is just watching the pain acceptingly, without doing anything .

[silent thunder]

This definition of pain really resonates for me:

 

Pain is a level of sensation, deemed to be unacceptable.

[GrandmasterP]

Cultivating can be good for some pain.

A bad back for example.

When muscles are locked in a pain spasm then gentle movement can help to ease them far quicker than immobility.

Edited August 14, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Rara]

Is it possible to meditate properly or do some other form of cultivation when you're in pain? Is pain something to go through, is it useful in self improvement? Also, did anyone have some form of pain that they didn't want to ask help for, because it feels selfish to do so?

Of course

 

Mindfulness practice can really help you to cope with it and understand it (thus making you feel better)

 

Just don't go sitting in full lotus if you have two sprained ankles etc. Stay comfy!

[thelerner]

Here are some thoughts from an old member. The wise Dao Zhen

 

Dao Zhen on dealing w/ Pain

 

If one is just practicing sitting, and encounters pain, there are a few ways of dealing with it.

 

FIRST - in ancient times, and in many modern systems of Taoist practice, there is "preliminary" work that is done to prepare for sitting. By my personal experience these are usually Dao Yin stretches with breath training done in a cross leg posture, and also standing Dao Yin methods to stretch the body and tendon network, etc. These methods also begin some very basic work to open the meridian system, train the breath, and circulate the Qi. So look around for Dao Yin methods, or even doing Indian Yoga and Tai Chi can help lay some foundation of BODY for the work of SITTING.

 

 

SECOND - When sitting there are two methods to work with in passing through the stage of PAIN. Do this, and make it past this stage, as the reward is worth the effort. The pleasure, internal peace, and UNION we gain from the journey past the PAIN stage is really worth the effort.

 

 

I was taught to allow progress to take shape naturally in meditation.

 

 

So one method in this regard is to allow the pain to come - say in the hips, or knees, or numbness in the feet - let is build slightly, and before it becomes HUGE, very slowly stretch the feet out and allow things to become comfortable again - then very slowly draw the feet back - AND CONTINUE THE PRACTICE - with this method, a beginer can stretch a practice session out for 1.5 to 2 hours no problem.

 

 

A second method is to use the breath to push past the pain, or to seek to reach an experience of the meridian opening. This method is usually only good to use if one has a method of practice that combines with the meditation to build up the Qi. As the pain arises, you begin to focus deeply on the breath, and pumping the breath in and out from the Lower Dantian.

 

 

DO NOT focus on the pain, just focus on the breath. Sometimes one will need a soft breath, sometimes a strong breath. If you can hold the mindfullness, and keep the mind and breath together, and not DRIFT off into the area of pain - oftentimes you will reach a WALL, and then suddenly the WALL breaks down, and there is an OPENING, and the channel opens, and the pain MELTS away like ice, and there is a WARM, comfortable feeling that arises, and the body feels very light, and usually this will lead one to a deep state of emptiness........

 

 

From another old member who did parquor, ie free running.

Dealing w/ Pain, Great Take from Otis


I was jumping of this pretty high cliff into the water and the impact stretched and damaged my tendons and sinews around the chest/neck/shoulder/upper back (mainly at the center of the chest where the ribs are connected though) and it hurts like hell while doing any physical activity, even deep breathing is painful.

Doctor recommended ibuprofen to ease the inflammation and I'm ok with taking just that. I'm wondering if there are any eastern methods to speed up this healing, such as focusing on some specific meridian or some qi gong postures that could help. For various reasons I have to be completely rehabilitated in 2 weeks.

Otis:
I have a lot of experience with healing muscle and connective tissue in myself.

What I would do, is to make the injury into my moving meditation. Find a good, non-stressful posture (even lying down), relax, and then slowly, lovingly, activate the areas that hurt, through movement. Get the pain to be just hot enough to be intense, but not enough that my system shouts "no!" at me. Basically, I listen for the "no!" and back off, just a smidge, and make that my arena of play.

And I emphasize "play", because it is better, IME, to be guided not by technique or concepts, but by the actual parameters of the injury. Every injury is unique, and the body's signals are there, precisely to guide me toward self-healing.

Also, because that level of intense (but not freak-out) pain, can actually be a very joyful experience. If it is not, then I'd recommend slowing down, paying still more attention. If I'm tripping over my body's "no!" signals, then I'm not listening enough. The more I can utterly and joyfully "fall into" the sheer sensation of the pain with my awareness, the faster the injury heals.

Once I learned how joyful it can be to pay attention to injury, and how easy it is to heal myself, it totally changed my relationship to injury, risk, and fear. So, this (and all) injuries can be true gifts, if they reveal the body's joyful capacity to heal itself.

Edited August 15, 2014 by thelerner