How do we know what's yin and what's yang . Really.

[Brian]

can you tell me how we can tell what is yin and what is yang ? this is the topic and purpose of the thread

 

how do we know the difference? is there a scientific method or is it just an illusion , smoke and mirrors ?

 

thx !!

Asked and answered earlier in this thread. Your response was to regurgitate your false dogma (despite it being contradictory, illogical and contrary to "how things work").

 

You also told me, in your response, that you "know more about life and the universe than anyone on the planet."

 

You're a legend in your own mind.

 

I've referred you several times to Feynman's lectures on physics but, since you already know all there is to know about life and the universe, you couldn't be bothered with reality. Had you bothered, you would have found your entire philosophy only takes a few paragraphs in the sections about charges and electrostatics. You are like a t-ball player who learns to field a ground ball and believes he is a superstar. Cute in a six-year-old...

[Marblehead]

And we should be careful as to where we put our Ying Yang.

 

 

 

[GrandmasterP]

can you tell me how we can tell what is yin and what is yang ? this is the topic and purpose of the thread

 

how do we know the difference? is there a scientific method or is it just an illusion , smoke and mirrors ?

 

thx !!

 

There isn't 'scientific' method, those who know just know what's Yin and what's Yang.

It's really easy ...

You can try this if you like it always works.....

Repeat after me.....

" It's all Tao. Don't sweat the small stuff."

 

Hope that helps.

 

[Brian]

When my little sister was 4 or 5, she taught herself to whistle. Only problem was that she only knew how to whistle a single note. She could (and would) string them together in a "song" but all her songs sounded the same because they were utterly monotone. We each took turns trying to show her how to whistle different notes but she honestly didn't even understand what we were saying -- in her head, she was whistling beautiful & complex melodies.

 

She figured it out on her own in a few months.

[GrandmasterP]

Would that some of the 'singers' on this year's X Factor had done likewise.

[Daeluin]

hexagram 36, line 6 comes to mind

 

seriously... all this talk of yin and yang - study the yijing.

[TaoMaster]

There isn't 'scientific' method, those who know just know what's Yin and what's Yang.

It's really easy ...

You can try this if you like it always works.....

Repeat after me.....

" It's all Tao. Don't sweat the small stuff."

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

It seems that way but the more you understand it the more precise it becomes.

 

Like understanding the piano in a way . It first it seems impossible but with practice you begin to understand it more and more and your ability to use it in a pleasurable way increases.

 

Understanding yang and yin are no different in this respect.

 

First you determine the notes on yang yin. There's only two . You can form sentences like the keys form cords. The sentences can reveal illusions about life . Which ones? We all have them. They differ from one person to the next and some are the same too.

 

You can learn to read the universe like reading notes of music on a score .

 

The benefits ?

 

Yang tends to attract more yang and yin, yin.

 

The bad?

 

A lack of understanding , mis understanding in other words, attracts yin.

 

When I attempt to explain it , I get attacked by those who don't understand it . They can't see what I see so they don't understand it .

They get frustrated , pissed off and generally make a fool of there self.

 

Understanding yang and yin is like gaining ability to understand and play the universe as it were the piano

 

It's amazing in ways that differs from one person to the next .

 

Very key on the keyboard has a purpose and so does yang yin.

 

I consider myself a master of an art . It's not scientific in that respect . But in many ways it is . Just like + and - are .

 

You're just assigning + and - to words and context and perspectives.

 

The notes never change only the way you view them , arrange them and apply them.

 

I taught myself how to play yang yin and then latter learned that I'm not the only one who's played .

 

It's an instrument most don't even know exists and it's truly thee most amazing instrument in the universe .

 

It explains everything about it . How it got here , who put it here , how many times it's been here and much more.

 

Are there past lives ? Yes is there reincarnation? No

 

How do I know this ?

 

Life is the one constant in all life times past present and future. Life is the common denominator . We as human life forms can know anything life knows and life knows all .

 

We were all there in that respect. It's the illusions we need to vanish to know these things . The illusions are what occlude reality .

 

Yang is what's real and yin is the illusion .

 

When you know which fork in the road to take ( yang ) you be on the right path . But if you take the yin fork , you'll just get nowhere.

 

Knowing the differences between them is everything.

 

grandmaster p ,

 

My question to Brian was rhetorical BTW ( smile ) but thanks for your help ( laughing )

[GrandmasterP]

"Yang is what's real and yin is the illusion . "

 

Bit of a stumbling block that statement here in the sunny East Midlands this pleasant Sunday afternoon.

 

Still and all, if accepting it floats your boat then by all means run with it.

 

Might you not be making a rod for your own back though?

You're possibly introducing a dualism into the Tao that was never actually 'there' in the first place.

Edited September 14, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[TaoMaster]

hexagram 36, line 6 comes to mind

 

seriously... all this talk of yin and yang - study the yijing.

please explain , Hex 36 line 6 . Understanding yang yin duality in the subject of tao is what i do best and id love to hear what others know about it . If anything .

 

The best way to do this is to talk to others about it . Hence , all this talk of yang yin . Reading is not a bad thing, I do that too but its limited to snips from others on the subject of duality rather than whole books at a time ..

 

it seems very few know that much about it and yet it is so basic .

 

My purpose for this thread is not only to help others understand yang yin and how to determine yang yin but also further my understanding and discover things about it i may not know exist on the subject . We can not know what we do not know and its not easy to know what we are not knowing because we dont know the things we dont know until we know them .

 

we can say we dont know how to play a piano but if we dont know that a piano exists, we will never know how to play a piano until we do .

 

 

 

Grandmaster P

 

reality ><illusion are just a single example of what yang and yin are.

 

there can be an infinite number of specific attributes for the basic yang yin .

 

i think the best way to describe yang yin is that yang is always a + and yin is always a -

 

so we're simple assigining + and - to all things that exist in the universe .

 

you can find a partial list here

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35665-what-is-love/

 

these are like the notes of a keyboard in a way . They all sound different and you can learn to read the universe like you would learn to read music in terms of musical notes of a keyboard .

 

its very benificial

 

when you understand which is which youll know what or who to aviod in life and what and who to embrace.

 

yang attracts yang and yin , yin .

 

like the poles of a magnet attract and repel .

 

if you want happiness in life , hang around happy people . If you want misery , hang out with miserable folks.

 

its pretty obviouse whos happy and whos not on my threads

 

the energy sensation feels horrible

 

the energy sensations from those who are generally happy feel much better

 

 

Edited September 14, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Daeluin]

Hexagram 36 describes a configuration of yin and yang during which there is a concealment of illumination. This is symbolized by the trigram earth over the trigram fire, expressed in changing lines of yin and yang.

 

Lines are read from the bottom to the top, where the bottom represents what is low, what is inside, what is beginning, while the top represents what is external, what is high, what is ending.

 

The yijing is simple math, and yet explains incredibly complex relationships, such as the detailed process of the evaporation of water, social relationships, refinement, egoism, you name it, in terms of yin and yang.

 

Hexagram 36, earth over fire, shows the clarity and illumination represented by fire, being smothered by the heavy and indiscriminate weight of earth. The dynamic of change being described is one where illumination is either being concealed or darkened.

 

The lesson is that sometimes one's illumination needs to be concealed in order for one to develop. on the flip side, this hexagram also describes what happens when illumination is not concealed. When illumination refuses to withdraw at the appropriate time, instead it works hard to cover the illumination of others.

 

When illumination is concealed, one is learning to recognize the subtle signals in life telling us when the timing is not right for us to shine. Should we ignore these signals, we walk a road of conflict, always trying to shine when others are trying to shine, always focused on shining brighter ourselves rather than being serenaded by the light of others in their time. When we listen to the signals, and voluntarily withdraw our light, we learn self-discipline and timing, and we learn to maintain our clarity on the inside even when it cannot be expressed or shown externally.

 

Line six is the top line of the trigram earth, and the fire below is hidden to it. This line represents a situation where one dances over the light of others without even realizing it. This line represents blatant shining of ones light amid myriad signals that it is not time to shine.

 

The yijing is a fantastic way to study yin and yang, and to get deeper into the spirit of taoism. Your posting ignores what others say, and each new post you offer simply appears as an attempt to outshine what everyone else is saying. That's all fine, your threads make a great living demonstration of the relativity and circularity of yin and yang. And it's fine if you don't care to study the classics - just find your own way to stop preaching and return to being a student of life. Replying to my post with more fluff does nothing except ease the pressure inside your heart. But you need to find a way to nurture that pressure and make it into something that can remain a harmonious part of yourself.

[TaoMaster]

ah ok i see , thank you . makes sence too . The law of dualty is very strong and apparent in this post . Its a little complicated but i get the gist of it .

 

my philosophy is that the simplest explanation is always the most probable . But this does not mean both are untrue, just one is more probable . Its a lesson i learned from occams razor . I try to keep my posts simple and use anology too like you have.

 

very good of you and i understand when you say my cup runnith over . Theres a time to sit back and say nothing so others can shine too.

 

this is exactly the kind of corrispondance im looking for in my threads. so for that i say thanks again .

 

tell me more .

[GrandmasterP]

"so we're simple assigining + and - to all things that exist in the universe ."

 

Why?

 

Any definable collection is a set.

Thus...

Let ' all things that exist in the universe' {T} be the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. If {T} is not a member of itself, then its definition dictates that it must contain itself, and if it contains itself, then it contradicts its own definition as the set of all sets that are not members of themselves.

 

 

 

As any fule knoe....

{T} cannot be defined.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[TaoMaster]

"so we're simple assigining + and - to all things that exist in the universe ."

 

Why?

 

Any definable collection is a set.

Thus...

Let ' all things that exist in the universe' {T} be the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. If {T} is not a member of itself, then its definition dictates that it must contain itself, and if it contains itself, then it contradicts its own definition as the set of all sets that are not members of themselves.

 

 

 

As any fule knoe....

{T} cannot be defined.

 

 

to understand it better . Understanding is a good thing . its one of the yang attributes.

 

when you increase one yang attribute , all increase to the same degree.

 

its also a good thing to know whats a yang attribute and whats yin . . This is the first step to enlightenment using the exercise, ive provided in the previouse posts. Its a form of meditation and when done correctly , produces amazing results , all yang .

 

try it

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35969-how-do-we-know-whats-yin-and-whats-yang-really/?p=580257

Edited September 15, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

Hexagram 36 describes a configuration of yin and yang during which there is a concealment of illumination. This is symbolized by the trigram earth over the trigram fire, expressed in changing lines of yin and yang.

interesting but not very descriptive in terms of understanding. This can mean so many different things

Lines are read from the bottom to the top, where the bottom represents what is low, what is inside, what is beginning, while the top represents what is external, what is high, what is ending.

sounds like the planet we are on .

 

the center is low and inside and where it begins and the outer limits of the sky above, is high and where the planet ends.

The yijing is simple math, and yet explains incredibly complex relationships, such as the detailed process of the evaporation of water, social relationships, refinement, egoism, you name it, in terms of yin and yang.

i like simplisity . I agree 100 % that simplisity can answer the most complex questions. Its how i answer all of my questions.

Hexagram 36, earth over fire, shows the clarity and illumination represented by fire, being smothered by the heavy and indiscriminate weight of earth. The dynamic of change being described is one where illumination is either being concealed or darkened.

meaning less so far and not aplicable to any of my posts

The lesson is that sometimes one's illumination needs to be concealed in order for one to develop. on the flip side, this hexagram also describes what happens when illumination is not concealed. When illumination refuses to withdraw at the appropriate time, instead it works hard to cover the illumination of others.

sounds like a girl i met who insisted she was a master of the tao but would not let me get a word in . She talked for hours and i finally told he i need to go now.

 

its called two way communcation . I use it al the time and i always allow others their turn to speak .

When illumination is concealed, one is learning to recognize the subtle signals in life telling us when the timing is not right for us to shine. Should we ignore these signals, we walk a road of conflict, always trying to shine when others are trying to shine, always focused on shining brighter ourselves rather than being serenaded by the light of others in their time. When we listen to the signals, and voluntarily withdraw our light, we learn self-discipline and timing, and we learn to maintain our clarity on the inside even when it cannot be expressed or shown externally.

sounds good to me but i dont see how im in conflict with this . Anyones welcome to say anything anytime . I listen but if its derogaotory i dont read it . I dont read Brains posts anymore. Its just allot of rant and rave . Cany ignor him using software but i simply dont read his posts anymore. Hi Brian ( waves )

Line six is the top line of the trigram earth, and the fire below is hidden to it. This line represents a situation where one dances over the light of others without even realizing it. This line represents blatant shining of ones light amid myriad signals that it is not time to shine.

ok i see . so each line represents an action of shining or not in some way .

The yijing is a fantastic way to study yin and yang, and to get deeper into the spirit of taoism. Your posting ignores what others say, and each new post you offer simply appears as an attempt to outshine what everyone else is saying. That's all fine, your threads make a great living demonstration of the relativity and circularity of yin and yang.

so do your posts and so far what im reading from this one is shut and and listen to others even if what they say is rediculious, agree with it . Thats not going to happen anytime soon or ever . Not until i read something that makes sence . I like much of what i read and allot does make sence. This post of yours relates to my cup spilling over and ill say it again, get a bigger cup , my cup has no top , its limitless and always will be . If its too much for others to swallow , thats not my problem its theres. Im a big guy , a locomotive in a way but without the loco . Im yang and allot of it . Alpha.

 

And it's fine if you don't care to study the classics - just find your own way to stop preaching and return to being a student of life. Replying to my post with more fluff does nothing except ease the pressure inside your heart. But you need to find a way to nurture that pressure and make it into something that can remain a harmonious part of yourself.

i used to be nick named the preacher when i was 15 but i was mute then . I never spoke more than a few words at a time . I was too inhibited and ironically i was named the preacher by some of my friends. .

 

if i can benifit others as a living demonstration , im happy for that . Im happy to help anyone I can in any way and needless to say im unhappy to hurt anyone in any way . its a legal matter that most of us live by but dont realize it .

 

im not here to piss anyone off although i knew it was comming , always does. I see it allot from otrhers too who are trying to help . There always seems to be the few who attack thoses who want to help . I understand "why" Its a compulsive issue . its a legal matter .

 

They get ignored after they show their true colors a few times.

 

many will read my posts , agree and move on or disagree and move on but there is always a few who just ...... go..... insane ... over what i say . they know who they are but unfortunatly theres nothing anyone can do to help them . Sadly .

 

the best i can do for them is simply ignore them and thats exactly what im doing now .

 

they have had plenty of oppertunity to shine back but instead they fight back , lash out , ridcule and hate.

 

sorrry , no thanks , the energy sensations are hellish so i choose to avoid them alltogether .

 

Can you tell me Daeluin , is there a reference book you know of that can help anyone determine what is yang and what is yin ?

 

I already know how but im looking for some kind of text i can read for the purpose of conformation and to know if there is a certain formula that is used, Maybe similar to the formula I use.

 

thank you for your commenst , you have a nice way of expressing yourself and i like what you say . even if its to etell me to STFU and let someone else have a chance I still like you . I like Brain too and the rest but im ignoring him now . Couple others too . Im sure youd want that too if you were me .

 

keep posting your comments , ill listen to what you have to say , id love to hear what you have to say and long as its polite and respectful in some way and so far you have been just that .

[GrandmasterP]

to understand it better . Understanding is a good thing . its one of the yang attributes.

 

when you increase one yang attribute , all increase to the same degree.

 

its also a good thing to know whats a yang attribute and whats yin . . This is the first step to enlightenment using the exercise, ive provided in the previouse posts. Its a form of meditation and when done correctly , produces amazing results , all yang .

 

try it

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35969-how-do-we-know-whats-yin-and-whats-yang-really/?p=580257

 

Enlightenment is 'all Yang' now!

When did that happen?

Is it a state you've already attained to through Yang-ey effort or still aspirational?

[TaoMaster]

Enlightenment is 'all Yang' now! When did that happen? Is it a state you've already attained to through Yang-ey effort or still aspirational?

enlightenment is an attribute of yang . yang is a positive . yin is a neg .

 

if its not yang it must be yin and if its not yin it must be yang . its a dualistic universe made of 1s and 0 s

 

yang 1 and 0 is yang

 

enlightenment on its own , by its own as in singular is yang anything attributed to yang is yang and to yin , yin .

 

all we are doing is assigning polarity and voltage in a sence, to each thing in the universe.

 

in order for a thing to exist it must have both yang and yin . so in that respect no yang is not all yang but when compaired to its neg pole , enlightenment is more pos than neg so i say in general terms , its all yang .

 

if it has more yang than yin , its yang and more yin its yin .

 

yang and yin are simply two poles of the same item.

 

the only way and i mean only way as in a single way yang becomes yin is when all yang becomes yin at the same time.

 

the way this is done is when all things are viewed by life the creator of all things . Life is always yang and there is no exception to this . its not an oppinion or relative or perspective.

 

life comes first and lifes creations come after . yang always preceds yin .

 

heres the twist . life has no begining and no end . its always been and will always be . it can not be killed or end itself .

 

i know life very well . Ive been one with all life . it happened last Febuary .

 

life IS aware of itself just like you are aware of yourself. Life is not physical . it creates physical

 

in the tao its known as the unspeakable or something to the degree. I know why . Life does not want to be known but it can never be fully unknown or it would no longer live .

 

i didnt read this in a book . i experienced this first hand . many will say ive experienced enlightenment and i agree but there are many levels of enlightenment just like many levels of awareness.

 

in terms of my human form? lets just say my pencil is not the shapest in the box. and my elevator does not go all the way up .

 

my education is literally at the 4th grade level . i was yanked out of school for two years and then tossed back in at the 7th grade

 

i failed every class from that point on with the exception of metal and wood shop and didnt do too bad with science class. I gots A's and B's but failed in 4 of 6 subjects all the way up to the 12th grade where i dropped out and took the GED 3 times before i passed it .

 

Spiritually ? ive never met anyone as spirituall advaned or enlightened as me and ive been looking everywhere .

 

i xcan see things that as far as i know , no one can else see about life and the universe but only in general terms . My detail is improveing and im getting allot from this website in terms of furthering my spiritual ability .

 

i can feel the pain others have from my posts and im truly sorry for that . the LAST thing i want is to see others suffer from my actions . Not all do and some do both , suffer and experience enjoyment , namely me .

 

it hurts to be attacked in a negative and derogatory manner and i dont like it.

 

i know opposition and i know and agreement. very well . Im truly here to help you and me both .

 

whats helpful for one is not always helpful for another . I cant do anything abaout that . So if my posts are hurting anyone , its best to just not read them and if they help then read them all many many times.

 

pretty simple logic , im good at logic , in my oppinion

[GrandmasterP]

I'll take that as a ' No' then.

It's an interesting thread and I don't think anyone is having a pop at you personally, ( I'm not) they're just challenging your ideas.

Thesis

Antithesis

Synthesis ( sometimes)

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

 

Antithesis

Synthesis ( sometimes)

 

Is that a duality? An expression of Yin and Yang? Or just two new words you learned today?

[GrandmasterP]

It's how I taught students to frame an essay 'argument'.

Along the lines of...

" having read A who says x and B who says y. I've thought about it and conclude... z.

Olden but golden and gets first year undergrads out of writing...

" I agree with X when he writes........"

And leaving it at that.

Which is the college equivalent of someone on here posting a bare link and claiming...

This is IT then.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Daeluin]

Fair enough about my post being closed to change.

 

What I'm trying to point out is that many of your responses are quite long winded and not very concise. I don't find your arguments to be held together very tightly, and your posts appear to use the circularity and relativity of yin and yang to say whatever you want.

 

So I'm not really sure what you're after here, is all. You seem to like this duality concept a lot. And your name is "TaoMaster", though I don't see you discuss from many Daoist frameworks other than yin and yang.

 

You seem to be asking for direction to get deeper. Again - the yijing, or "I Ching", the chinese book of changes, is a great way to study yin and yang. Yes, it is a little complex, and very subtle. Taoism is about reading between the lines. The taiji symbol is not a symbol of 2 entities, it is a symbol of 3 - yin, yang, and chi. Chi is ever present within polarity. Yin is forever contained within yang and yang forever contained within yin. What is undoubtedly yang from one perspective is undoubtedly yin from another perspective; there are no absolutes. Have you studied the Tao Te Ching? The opening lines declare that what can be discussed is not the Tao, precisely because words are absolutes, and the tao exists between and before what we perceive as absolute.

 

Beyond the 3, come 4 - two yangs, two yins, yin below yang, yang below yin - and then 5 and 6, unfolding in their unique dimensional ways to give us space, heaven (spirit), earth (physical mass), and the 10,000 things arising from these as the principle of duality (the arising of chi between any two forces) is applied.

 

It is all quite complex. But even still, the dynamic of 8 is fairly simple. 8 primal forces of change. Heaven, Wind, Water, Mountain, Earth, Thunder, Fire, Lake. Each of these come from the 8 possible combinations of 3 lines of yin or yang. Look it up on wikipedia and study it. Learn to identify these forces in operation everywhere you look. We're talking primal forces, like gravity, like sunlight, like passive and active forces of movement, like boundaries, like solvents. All described in simple terms of yin and yang.

 

By the time you get to the 64 hexagrams (six lines of yin and yang) in the Book of Changes (yijing), it is getting very complex, and incredibly profound and subtle. One can study the yijing for lifetimes.

 

Here's the thing - this is all beyond my ability to explain to you. The information is out there, and requires studying, on your own, in depth. This is all basic stuff, and many here have long since studied it. Many of the reasons you find others challenging your posts exist in these basic studies - but your posting style suggests you have no interest or need to do any studying.

 

I recommend The Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth, by Ni Hua Ching. It is a study of the I Ching, but has a very long and extensive, but simple and thorough primer on Taoist Cosmology - everything I wrote about above and more.

 

Maybe you're just toying around with us. You act like you are a master of the Tao, and if so you would already know this stuff, so perhaps you have highly veiled motives here. But you seem to be genuinely curious about it, hence my recommendations. Discussions are great but foundation work is paramount.

[TaoMaster]

Hello and thank you for your comments .

Fair enough about my post being closed to change.

closed to change ? wasnt me who said that , link ?

What I'm trying to point out is that many of your responses are quite long winded and not very concise. I don't find your arguments to be held together very tightly, and your posts appear to use the circularity and relativity of yin and yang to say whatever you want.

not the way I see it

So I'm not really sure what you're after here, is all. You seem to like this duality concept a lot. And your name is "TaoMaster", though I don't see you discuss from many Daoist frameworks other than yin and yang.

Please look up the definition of Tao.

 

I am a master of the tao like no other you will ever know nor read about . I say this sincerely and with total respect to you . Because this is how I would like to be adressed by others.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=tao+definition+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

 

I have mastered "the way" and have fulfilled this above definition is every possible way . I know the way and I am a master of the tao in the fullest sence of the word. Ive also proved this to at least myself in the simplest terms possible.

 

Im a real taomaster in every way and there is nothing anyone can say to change this . Not only have I mastered Taoisum but I have shown you how you can master it as well . A very simple meditative exercise. No need to read any book .

 

also not only am I a master of the tao , I actually know the unknowable that the tao describes so im far abouve the tao in that I know what the tao says is unknowable . This makes me master of all taomasters. Far above all tao masters.

 

 

You seem to be asking for direction to get deeper. Again - the yijing, or "I Ching", the chinese book of changes, is a great way to study yin and yang. Yes, it is a little complex, and very subtle. Taoism is about reading between the lines.

Again with respect . I simply asked you a single question . Take a look at my last post to you . 1 simple question ..

 

taoisum is about reading between the lines ? See the link i provided you . This is what taoisum is about .

The taiji symbol is not a symbol of 2 entities, it is a symbol of 3 - yin, yang, and chi. Chi is ever present within polarity. Yin is forever contained within yang and yang forever contained within yin. What is undoubtedly yang from one perspective is undoubtedly yin from another perspective; there are no absolutes. Have you studied the Tao Te Ching? The opening lines declare that what can be discussed is not the Tao, precisely because words are absolutes, and the tao exists between and before what we perceive as absolute.

this is meaningless to me . It makes no sence . Its complicated and thats YIN . ( negative )

 

do you know what occams razor is about ?

 

here are some O.R. quotes.

 

"If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along"

"The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations."

"If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest."

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."

. . .or in the only form that takes its own advice. . .
"Keep things simple!"

 

Beyond the 3, come 4 - two yangs, two yins, yin below yang, yang below yin - and then 5 and 6, unfolding in their unique dimensional ways to give us space, heaven (spirit), earth (physical mass), and the 10,000 things arising from these as the principle of duality (the arising of chi between any two forces) is applied.

complexe and makes no sence. Not enough context . Beyond the 3 come 4 ? I dont get this . But if I had the rest of the context I might understand it better.

It is all quite complex. But even still, the dynamic of 8 is fairly simple. 8 primal forces of change. Heaven, Wind, Water, Mountain, Earth, Thunder, Fire, Lake. Each of these come from the 8 possible combinations of 3 lines of yin or yang. Look it up on wikipedia and study it. Learn to identify these forces in operation everywhere you look. We're talking primal forces, like gravity, like sunlight, like passive and active forces of movement, like boundaries, like solvents. All described in simple terms of yin and yang.

 

these are not simple terms Daeliun. You say allot of things but it says nothing in terms of understanding. I dont understand it .

By the time you get to the 64 hexagrams (six lines of yin and yang) in the Book of Changes (yijing), it is getting very complex, and incredibly profound and subtle. One can study the yijing for lifetimes.

 

Here's the thing - this is all beyond my ability to explain to you. The information is out there, and requires studying, on your own, in depth. This is all basic stuff, and many here have long since studied it. Many of the reasons you find others challenging your posts exist in these basic studies - but your posting style suggests you have no interest or need to do any studying.

I dont want to be lead on a wild goose chase . Im only looking for specific references to know how others determine yang and yin . Whats the formula used. I already know how but want to see if there is another way besides mine.

 

I recommend The Book of Changes and the Unchanging Truth, by Ni Hua Ching. It is a study of the I Ching, but has a very long and extensive, but simple and thorough primer on Taoist Cosmology - everything I wrote about above and more.

 

Maybe you're just toying around with us. You act like you are a master of the Tao, and if so you would already know this stuff, so perhaps you have highly veiled motives here. But you seem to be genuinely curious about it, hence my recommendations. Discussions are great but foundation work is paramount.

this is not tao mastery and I continue to see your true color of opposition to me . Its been there all along . Its very clear now you have a big problem with my statements and name taomaster. I act like one because I am one . as per the above definition . I became one last Febuary and im still one today . In fact more of a taomaster now than ever before. My yang attribute are increasing in a progressive manor

 

I asked you a simple question in my last post to you . . But this is the long winded ( as you say ) reply I get back and it didnt answer my question yes or no.

 

Is there a reference you can direct me to that shows a person how to determine what is yang and what is yin ? Simple

 

yes or no ?

 

Im not gong to read whole books and end up no closer to my answer than the moment I started. Just a simple reference . If you cant then ok no big deal . I see now you cant .

 

please dont speak in a derogatory manor to me as if im toying with anyone or that im simply acting in some way that implys im a fake.

 

I just asked you a single simple question . A link or a " I cant help you " would have been fine.

 

no need to reply to his post . Youve said enough .

[TaoMaster]

I actually agree with this but I would never say it the way you have.

how would you say it ?

That comes later. The physical (objective) is created first. Then the mental (subjective) is created and this is where we find dualities.

so if i understand you correctly, there is no evidence in the physical universe of duality ?

 

its ONLY a subjective matter ?

 

Duality is only found subjectively ?

 

please comment

[beyonder]

 

I am a master of the tao like no other you will ever know nor read about . I say this sincerely and with total respect to you . Because this is how I would like to be adressed by others.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=tao+definition+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

 

I have mastered "the way" and have fulfilled this above definition is every possible way . I know the way and I am a master of the tao in the fullest sence of the word. Ive also proved this to at least myself in the simplest terms possible.

 

Im a real taomaster in every way and there is nothing anyone can say to change this . Not only have I mastered Taoisum but I have shown you how you can master it as well . A very simple meditative exercise. No need to read any book .

 

also not only am I a master of the tao , I actually know the unknowable that the tao describes so im far abouve the tao in that I know what the tao says is unknowable . This makes me master of all taomasters. Far above all tao masters.

Venerable Master, I'd like to know how wu wei causes integration within the Grand Flow, as I find this interrelation between being a junzi and reaching central harmony to be mysterious. Maybe you could shed some light on that?

[Marblehead]

TaoMaster said:

"life is the creator of all things, aka the physical and mental universe. aka the subjective and objective universe . and is the only absolute and is not subject to realitivity"

I replied:

 

"I actually agree with this but I would never say it the way you have."

 

how would you say it ?

Very carefully.

 

Tao is the creator of all things. (Life didn't exist yet.)

 

Your word "mental" is too misleading. I would express that sentence as:

 

(Tao gave birth to) first the Mystery and then the Manifest evolved out of the Mystery. (Mystery being "wu" and Manifest being "yo".

 

Ah!, the subjective. That didn't come about until there were discerning minds. We can't say too much about other life forms as we lack the knowledge but the human animal certainly is discerning. The universe is 13.7 (or .6) billion years old. Man has existed for a maximum of 4 million years - a very short time in comparison.

 

The objective is the only absolute. But even this is dynamic so in truth, it is not absolute either. That pretty much leaves only Tao as an absolute but even Tao is dynamic so perhaps there are no absolutes.

 

And yes, everything is relative.

 

so if i understand you correctly, there is no evidence in the physical universe of duality ?

Not in my understanding. As my Buddhist friends would say, everything is co-dependent. That would mean that things are not opposed to each other but rather compliment each other.

 

its ONLY a subjective matter ? Duality is only found subjectively ?

 

please comment

Yes, that is my understanding. Prior to the existence of thinking life forms subjectivity did not exist. There was simply "what is".

 

[Daeluin]

Well, it appears my sincere attempt to offer more information and resources for studying taoism and yin and yang is unwelcome.

 

I will happily do as you ask in you personal message and stop posting in your threads.