How do we know what's yin and what's yang . Really.

[TaoMaster]

Because yin and yang are clearly defined terms in Chinese philosophy; those dots represent new yin and new yang arrising from old yin and old yang. new yin comes from old yang, new yang comes from old yin. The yin/yang symbol depicts motion, which is the change from yang to yin and back again, ad infinitum. Not only does it depict this motion, it also denotes their unity, as a polar whole.Believe what you want, though. Ideas are ideas, and you're free to do with those as you please.

 

It's basically like this

 

The yang yin symbol I use is half black and half white . It say looses duality..... Duality is 2

 

When you add two more dots within each that makes four .

 

It adds confusion and complexity to the simplicity of yang yin.

 

It's not YANG with a little yin and YIN with a little yang . It's simply YANG AND YIN

 

Makes no difference who put the additions there or when or why . Simple is simple and complex, complex .

 

I also turned the symbol so white is on top where it belongs . White is yang and black is yin .

 

Top is yang and bottom is yin

 

So I turned it and put white on top

 

Also up is yang and down is yin.

 

See?

 

( smile )

 

Thanks for your comments and questions . I welcome them from you. ( smile )

 

Do you mind to give me an example in life where new yin and yang arise from old yin and yang and can you tell me how you determine what is hand and what is yin ? It for the purpose of better understanding your comments .

 

I also do not refer to yin yang with yin first . It's yang and yin because yang always comes before yin . So to keep simple I use that order.

 

Do you know of Occam's razor ? You can google it if not . It's a very simple philosophy that will allow easy problem solving and it's easily understood buy a forth grade student like me.

 

Taomaster. ( smile )

[Marblehead]

Well, it appears my sincere attempt to offer more information and resources for studying taoism and yin and yang is unwelcome.

 

I will happily do as you ask in you personal message and stop posting in your threads.

You can post in my threads all you want.

[Silent Answers]

I will continue to enjoy the free entertainment. Just when I thought the trollometer was set to maximum...he cranks it up a notch.

[beyonder]

It's basically like this The yang yin symbol I use is half black and half white . It say looses duality..... Duality is 2 When you add two more dots within each that makes four . It adds confusion and complexity to the simplicity of yang yin. It's not YANG with a little yin and YIN with a little yang . It's simply YANG AND YIN Makes no difference who put the additions there or when or why . Simple is simple and complex, complex . I also turned the symbol so white is on top where it belongs . White is yang and black is yin . Top is yang and bottom is yin So I turned it and put white on top Also up is yang and down is yin. See? ( smile )

I understand what you're saying, yes. Do I agree? No.

Thanks for your comments and questions . I welcome them from you. ( smile ) Do you mind to give me an example in life where new yin and yang arise from old yin and yang and can you tell me how you determine what is hand and what is yin ? It for the purpose of better understanding your comments .

 

The 64 hexagrams of the "I Ching" represent situations in human lives, which are iterations of the Grand Flow. Within these situations, there sometimes is movement. This movement is represented by the moving of lines. This moving is new yin arrising from old yang, or new yang arrising from old yin. The situations are described in the "I Ching":

 

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html

 

How does one recognise yin or yang in daily life? Well:

 

"When what you have studied leaves your mind entirely, and practice also disappears, then, when you perform whatever art you are engaged in, you accomplish the techniques easily without being inhibited by concern over what you have learned, and yet without deviating from what you have learned. This is spontaneously conforming to learning without being consciously aware of doing so."

 

-Yagyu Munenori, A Hereditary Book on the Art of War

 

Sometimes, certain hexagrams relevant to the situation I'm in just pop up in my mind, providing me insight into the situation at hand. It's weird like that.

I also do not refer to yin yang with yin first . It's yang and yin because yang always comes before yin . So to keep simple I use that order.

OK. I don't.

 

Do you know of Occam's razor ? You can google it if not . It's a very simple philosophy that will allow easy problem solving and it's easily understood buy a forth grade student like me. Taomaster. ( smile )

Yes, though I favor verisimilitude over parsimony, when it comes to such criteria. My (intellectual) thinking is much more in line with the academic sceptics than it is with the scholastics.

Edited September 16, 2014 by beyonder

[TaoMaster]

 

thank you but unfortunatly........ and i truly hate to say this, I dont understand this at face value . ( the pyramid type image you included of 10000 ) Meaning it may or not be something i agree with .

 

If I study it with all its contect included then certainly i can understand it . Its as if its in a different language that I dont speak or write. . So dont take this as a disagreement .

 

can you explain it using simplier terms in your own words ?

 

perhaps how it might be in ones everyday life .

 

Not that I dont trust you but it will help me understand what you are trying to say and Im sure youre trying to show me how you see things from your point of view in a friendly way and I appreciate that youve taken the time to do that .

 

Its a releif that i can even have conversations about yand and yin with others who are familiar with it . But it apears that so far there truly is not any referen from any text about how yang and yin are determined or that is it a matter of oppinion or perspective.

 

we live in a world of duality and there is no question about that . -Its not a matter of oppinion Its every where and in every thing. Its not random and its not just in certain things and not in others.

[beyonder]

 

thank you but unfortunatly........ and i truly hate to say this, I dont understand this at face value . ( the pyramid type image you included of 10000 ) Meaning it may or not be something i agree with .

 

If I study it with all its contect included then certainly i can understand it . Its as if its in a different language that I dont speak or write. . So dont take this as a disagreement .

Even if you where disagreeing, I wouldn't mind. We don't need to see eye to eye to have a discussion in good spirits. Right?

 

I agree with your assesement though, it is as if chinese cosmology is written in a different language. I'm not talking about the obvious difference between English and Chinese, though. The vernacular of scholars in ancient times in China relied heavily on standard works. Being familiar with those standard works and the symbology they employed helps alot in getting into the right mindset.

 

can you explain it using simplier terms in your own words ?

The empty circle stands for the Unnamable Beginning. The yin/yang symbol stands for the Grand Flow. The unbroken line is yang. The broken line is yin. Below those, there are 4 sets of two lines. These stand for (from left to right) old yang, young yin, young yang and old yin. These, in turn, lead to the 8 trigrams, that, when stacked, become the 64 hexagrams of the "I Ching". What the diagram shows, is a cosmology based on the interplay between yin and yang, and their eventual expressions in human experience; these expressions are documented in the "I Ching".

 

Not that I dont trust you but it will help me understand what you are trying to say and Im sure youre trying to show me how you see things from your point of view in a friendly way and I appreciate that youve taken the time to do that .

Heh, no problem.

 

Its a releif that i can even have conversations about yand and yin with others who are familiar with it . But it apears that so far there truly is not any referen from any text about how yang and yin are determined or that is it a matter of oppinion or perspective.

Note that what I was talking about is a somewhat more advanced practice; to intuït ones way around with the "I Ching" requires memorisation of all the hexagrams (not that hard). There are other ways, though. But, since you're not familiar with the "I Ching", those are going to sound completely rediculous. One way is casting coins. Another way is dividing a bundle of yarrow sticks. You could also use computer programs which mimic those algorithms (that last one might just be somewhat controversial). Why these methods work, according to the philosophy of the "I Ching," is precisely why they sound rediculous; Because those methods are random. According to that philosophy, there are no coïncidences. Everything within a moment is somehow interrelated, and as such, there is meaning within such randomness.

 

I know that sounds rediculous, but just take a look around, in the "I Ching" subforum. Strangely, these methods work, regardless of you believing in them or not. In my experience, they tend to work better, the more you understand about this chinese cosmology.

we live in a world of duality and there is no question about that . -Its not a matter of oppinion Its every where and in every thing. Its not random and its not just in certain things and not in others.

I don't know about duality, but the way I understand the yin/yang symbol (with the dots), I agree. That stuff is everywhere, both large and small cycles.

[Wu Ming Jen]

yin and yang, yin within yang and yang within yin to determine we need a true polar complete opposite, they turn into each other they are the same coin. In the west opposites are put into hostile opposing positions that are not related to each other. In reality there is no friction or duality.

 

To move forward one must push off the back leg to move backwards you push of the front leg. Conflict is two opposing forces moving in opposite directions, I call this conflict harmony because it is one

[TaoMaster]

thx for your comments ....sincerely

yin and yang, yin within yang and yang within yin to determine we need a true polar complete opposite, they turn into each other they are the same coin. In the west opposites are put into hostile opposing positions that are not related to each other. In reality there is no friction or duality.

ill examine what you have posted .

 

the way i confirm wheath a statment is true or not is if it can be applied to ones every day life and can be noticed in ones everyday life . If it can then I say it is useful and true and good to know but If i cant see how it applies to everyday living , then it is useless and most likely not true .

To move forward one must push off the back leg to move backwards you push of the front leg. Conflict is two opposing forces moving in opposite directions, I call this conflict harmony because it is one

this is the kind of reply to my threads im looking for . I can use this in everyday living . Its very logical .

 

True, the ultimate reality is that no there is no duality but this applies to life the creator of all things and from lifes point of view.

 

a two sided coin is a single object but it still has two sides. ( 6 sides to be precise ) but ill use the two sided analogy .

 

this is duality but its two poles of a single item or a spectrum that spans from one positive begining to the other negative ending .

 

the universe ( uni meaning 1 ) is a single item consisting of + first and - last .

 

It has a past and it has a future ( duality ) present time is between them both . This is the physical universe. Without the past or future there is no present time , no physical universe.

 

these two poles ( future and past ) when viewed simultainiously will colapse and become a single item . A univrese.

 

the single item is always positive and the negative is always vanished.

 

when this is accomplished, reality can be seen in its fullest sence. It is as real as the moment ot was created. There is no more negativity .

 

Even if you where disagreeing, I wouldn't mind. We don't need to see eye to eye to have a discussion in good spirits. Right?

I agree with your assesement though, it is as if chinese cosmology is written in a different language. I'm not talking about the obvious difference between English and Chinese, though. The vernacular of scholars in ancient times in China relied heavily on standard works. Being familiar with those standard works and the symbology they employed helps alot in getting into the right mindset.
The empty circle stands for the Unnamable Beginning. The yin/yang symbol stands for the Grand Flow. The unbroken line is yang. The broken line is yin. Below those, there are 4 sets of two lines. These stand for (from left to right) old yang, young yin, young yang and old yin. These, in turn, lead to the 8 trigrams, that, when stacked, become the 64 hexagrams of the "I Ching". What the diagram shows, is a cosmology based on the interplay between yin and yang, and their eventual expressions in human experience; these expressions are documented in the "I Ching".

Heh, no problem.

Note that what I was talking about is a somewhat more advanced practice; to intuït ones way around with the "I Ching" requires memorisation of all the hexagrams (not that hard). There are other ways, though. But, since you're not familiar with the "I Ching", those are going to sound completely rediculous. One way is casting coins. Another way is dividing a bundle of yarrow sticks. You could also use computer programs which mimic those algorithms (that last one might just be somewhat controversial). Why these methods work, according to the philosophy of the "I Ching," is precisely why they sound rediculous; Because those methods are random. According to that philosophy, there are no coïncidences. Everything within a moment is somehow interrelated, and as such, there is meaning within such randomness.

I know that sounds rediculous, but just take a look around, in the "I Ching" subforum. Strangely, these methods work, regardless of you believing in them or not. In my experience, they tend to work better, the more you understand about this chinese cosmology.
I don't know about duality, but the way I understand the yin/yang symbol (with the dots), I agree. That stuff is everywhere, both large and small cycles.

thx for the explanations and the time youve spent helping me . Ill take a look at the i Ching SF as well

[Wu Ming Jen]

Western philosophy has a personal god that created all things by his will and is not a part of nature. Lao Tzu has an interesting way of approaching big questions. One being ultimate reality and ultimate source are the same thing. Tao is nameless without any quality and the function of Tao is observable. A very logical approach. Creation maybe considered contrived and un-natural in Lao Tzu view of reality.

[TaoMaster]

Western philosophy has a personal god that created all things by his will and is not a part of nature. Lao Tzu has an interesting way of approaching big questions. One being ultimate reality and ultimate source are the same thing. Tao is nameless without any quality and the function of Tao is observable. A very logical approach. Creation maybe considered contrived and un-natural in Lao Tzu view of reality.

as a westerner , ive managed to distance myself from the god theory and all religions. I tend to use logic before any trust or belief system is used.

 

I always refeused to attend church and am not sorry for that in any way . Ive always considered praying an illusion and silly ritual.

 

with that said there must be some cause for the effects that we see touch , feel , hear and sence in general .

 

" things " do not appear on their own will.

 

there is nothin zero at one end of spectrum and solidity at the other

 

theres is life form in between . Life forms are animated and can move. We are a littel bit of nothing and a littel bit of solidity , "something"

 

a mix of the two things

 

life , as i speak of is the no thing and a bowling ball for example is a solid thing

 

when i left my body many years ago for the first time , i was convinced i was a soul with a body and that all bodies and other life forms had souls too.

 

latter i realized that there is only one life or soul that controls all life forms everywhere.

 

this life is spritual in that it is a no thing . it can only be refered too and spoken of but can never be touched.

 

this life is you and me and everyone else. its just one soul for all life forms.

 

when i speak to you , i am speaking to myself and when you speak bcak it is me who speaks back to me . Its the same for you too and everyone else , animals plants bugs and fish

 

however life has the ability to not know its the only soul that controls everything .

 

Life does not want to know this or its life forms in other words.

 

How interesting and challenging would a game of chess be or chinese checkers be if you played this game alone over and over and over for ever and ever and ever. Life can not die and when life shuts its self off , it has nothing to refer to during that time period of being off . when it turns on again its as if it was never off.

 

so life plays with human and other life forms like a child plays with dolls. Life knows its the only one . This I know from my expeience of being 1 with all life . Nirvana I think its refered too .

 

I literally was what the westerners refer to as GOD . It was last Febuary .

 

theres more to this but Ill leave it at this for now .

 

No matter if its eastern or western , there is still a common agreement about creation but it seems the eastern uses an unspeakable or unknowable reference.

 

Please give me more details on the easterns point of view on this . Im very interested in knowing .

[GrandmasterP]

So that cold wet February-last was your fault then?

No disrespect TaoMaster but when you were being God earlier this year, you really could have done a better job with the weather.

Edited September 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Wu Ming Jen]

We come from the unknown and return to the unknown. Real people understand the situation but those with knowledge love to speculate and make up stuff.

 

When people do not agree on made up stuff it starts another movement and they make changes to line up with reality. If the original concept was not true all changes based on the belief are also not true, I call this patch jobs.

 

The material and spiritual life is simultaneously understood for those with no knowledge, no agenda, nothing to prove, no gain or loss, it just is. Some people fear the unknown all their lives but I call it home

[TaoMaster]

Thx GMP . Im very aware of the fact that ill be refered too as a nutjob . But im not changing or compromising my reality based on others disbelief. Its not just the weather that can be changed at will. Anything can and everything does. The objective universe is no different than subjective . One is just more solid than the other. When you visualize a rabit for example with big floppy ears , pink nose, musty smell, and the sound it makes when eating a carrott in the mental state, its simply fewer particals than the physical universe but both are the same item or two sides of same coin as others refer to it . You know what's behind you right this moment ? Nothing. No things. When you turn around and look that which was in front of you is now vanished and what you thought was behind you now appears. Dont believe me ? Thats your so called mind telling you different. Life has two basic abilities. It brings things into 1 and out of 2 existence. INSTANTLY You can not prove this is not true because it is the truth. Ive already proved it true. Youll need to prove it true for yourself. You can use camera, mirrors or other people to refute my statements . Thats still..... not proof .

 

 

Edited September 18, 2014 by TaoMaster

[GrandmasterP]

That needs an edit buddy.

Maybe in the morning eh?

Edited September 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Daeluin]

.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Daeluin

[TaoMaster]

yin and yang, yin within yang and yang within yin to determine we need a true polar complete opposite, they turn into each other they are the same coin. In the west opposites are put into hostile opposing positions that are not related to each other. In reality there is no friction or duality.

 

To move forward one must push off the back leg to move backwards you push of the front leg. Conflict is two opposing forces moving in opposite directions, I call this conflict harmony because it is one

i didnt undertsand when you say we need to determine a true polar complete opposite . An example of a real time every day event of this is all i need to understand it better . Not because i think youre just tossing words around . Its for the sake of my understanding you better . nothing more.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

its only unknown to those who dont know. I know exactly where i came from , how i got here. what im herer for and where im going when i leave. Its called awarness . Some are more aware than others . Those who are not as aware do not known what i know. They are still good people but simply are not as aware.

We come from the unknown and return to the unknown. Real people understand the situation but those with knowledge love to speculate and make up stuff.

 

When people do not agree on made up stuff it starts another movement and they make changes to line up with reality. If the original concept was not true all changes based on the belief are also not true, I call this patch jobs.

 

The material and spiritual life is simultaneously understood for those with no knowledge, no agenda, nothing to prove, no gain or loss, it just is. Some people fear the unknown all their lives but I call it home

[TaoMaster]

"How do we know what's yin and what's yang . Really."

Hmmn, I hold it out a length and let go.

If it rises up, I call it Yan

If it drops to the floor, I call it Yin.

If it floats, I call it balanced.

 

Simple really. Just let go and observe.

and that's kinda my answer to life

Keep it simple.

 

Drop the concerns about what others are doing. All your questions have answers, but knowing them probably won't make a lick of difference in your life.

 

Define your path and walk.

i noticed your post just now again and i still like it . But.... what else is yang and what eles is yin .

 

Is there a reference list you can direct me to ?

 

thx for your comment too BTW

[Wu Ming Jen]

Everything in nature can be expressed as the opposition of yin and yang. This is the energizing force of all aspects of nature. It is dynamic and the basic foundation for change in nature.

 

Yin and yang are also relative terms: A forest fire is more yang than a campfire; a campfire is more yang than a spark. Nothing is purely yin or yang; it is always a matter of comparison.

 

Yin and yang are interdependent. Even though yin and yang are opposites, one has no meaning without the other. For example, day would have no meaning without night; heat cannot be understood without knowing what cold feels like; fever and chills can't be determined without experiencing the normal body temperature.

 

Yin creates yang; yang creates yin. Numerous examples of this principle can be seen in nature. For example, on a hot summer day (yang), there is a sudden thunderstorm (yin). A person may get symptoms of chills and a runny nose (yin) that turn into a fever with a sore throat (yang). A hyperactive child runs around frantically (yang), then suddenly falls asleep (yin).

 

Yin and yang mutually control each other. This is the basic mechanism of balance in nature and the human body. When the body gets overheated from exercise, the pores open and sweating lowers the temperature. When the body gets too cold due to exposure, the muscles shiver to generate heat.

[TaoMaster]

edit : this post is a mistake and should be on another thread of mine so please disregard this post

 

Thanks for your comments and the time you've spent. Perhaps im not the tao master after all. Certainly not as per your definition : (. As per this one ? Yes very much. : ) Problem is with ancient texts, it gets redifined by millions and after many decades, becomes many many diferent things to many different tao groups . Ask 20 people get 20 different answers. Like with the black white dots ive removed from my avatar. When were they added? Who knows. By whom ? Who knows. Exactly why. Many versions. Thanks sincerely friend.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TaoMaster

[mYTHmAKER]

Thanks for your comments and the time you've spent. Perhaps im not the tao master after all. Certainly not as per your definition : (. As per this one ? Yes very much. : ) Problem is with ancient texts, it gets redifined by millions and after many decades, becomes many many diferent things to many different tao groups . Ask 20 people get 20 different answers. Like with the black white dots ive removed from my avatar. When were they added? Who knows. By whom ? Who knows. Exactly why. Many versions. Thanks sincerely friend.

Do you have any idea what the black and white dots that you removed mean.

If you removed the dots you have no idea of yin and yang theory. IMHO

[TaoMaster]

Do you have any idea what the black and white dots that you removed mean.

If you removed the dots you have no idea of yin and yang theory. IMHO

Id love to hear about the yin and yang theory . As well as the black white dots within the yang yin symbol .

 

any reference is welcome as long as its not complicated. Thats a yin attribute and im not intrested in that . See how yin attracts yin ? like two yin poles of a magnet attract each other .

 

interest is yang...... no interest , yin .

 

BTW anything you can find a small version of in the univers there is also a larger version of the same thing some where. Anything large , youll also be able to find a smaller version of the same thing .

 

Im actually a master in the subject of yang and yin but thats just an oppinion . Yours may differ and im totally ok with that

[TaoMaster]

Everything in nature can be expressed as the opposition of yin and yang.

yes everything in nature aka the universe has both yang and yin . not equal as many say they are . Theres always a little more yang or more yin in an item

This is the energizing force of all aspects of nature. It is dynamic and the basic foundation for change in nature.

yas the imbalance of yang and yin generate forward or backward motion to the same degree there is more yang or more yin respectively

Yin and yang are also relative terms: A forest fire is more yang than a campfire; a campfire is more yang than a spark. Nothing is purely yin or yang; it is always a matter of comparison.

yang and yin must have something else to compare to , correct. this confims my facts that duality is in everything . But they are not relitive unless something changes in context or perspective .

Yin and yang are interdependent. Even though yin and yang are opposites, one has no meaning without the other.

true and they are not relitive to each other . Only to likeness. Yang is relitive to yang and yin only to yin . The only exception is that they are both in the same universe.

For example, day would have no meaning without night; heat cannot be understood without knowing what cold feels like; fever and chills can't be determined without experiencing the normal body temperature.

yes

Yin creates yang; yang creates yin.

i see it more in terms of life creatiing , rather than yang yin creating each other . They do however complete and oppose each other . They complete each other as in two poles of a magnet , in that way and opppoese one another like two opposing feilds of a magnet

Numerous examples of this principle can be seen in nature. For example, on a hot summer day (yang), there is a sudden thunderstorm (yin).

true , both

A person may get symptoms of chills and a runny nose (yin) that turn into a fever with a sore throat (yang).

sore throat is also yin

A hyperactive child runs around frantically (yang), then suddenly falls asleep (yin).

frantic is yin and sleep is yin

 

Yin and yang mutually control each other. This is the basic mechanism of balance in nature and the human body. When the body gets overheated from exercise, the pores open and sweating lowers the temperature. When the body gets too cold due to exposure, the muscles shiver to generate heat.

 

 

 

thanks again

[mYTHmAKER]

Id love to hear about the yin and yang theory . As well as the black white dots within the yang yin symbol .

 

any reference is welcome as long as its not complicated. Thats a yin attribute and im not intrested in that . See how yin attracts yin ? like two yin poles of a magnet attract each other .

 

interest is yang...... no interest , yin .

 

BTW anything you can find a small version of in the univers there is also a larger version of the same thing some where. Anything large , youll also be able to find a smaller version of the same thing .

 

Im actually a master in the subject of yang and yin but thats just an oppinion . Yours may differ and im totally ok with that

Since you are a master in the subject of yin and yang there is little i can teach you.

BTW opposites attract as in poles of a magnet.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Tao Dude, Fever Yang compared to Cold Yin. The information I provided is very basic I am not sure how to make it any simpler If you do not understand basics you must seek a teacher to clear up confusion in person.

 

I know you may think you are a master but your knowledge on the subject is poor. Sorry to be blunt but you have lost my interest, see you all another time.