The Five Eyes according to Buddha.

[Tibetan_Ice]

There is much debate about siddhis or psychic powers when it comes to Buddhism and enlightenment.

 

Every now and then I come across some writings that confirm the idea that you have to develop these powers in order to become enlightened, or at least to be able to understand the dharma.

 

This is one of those writings:

 

From http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page208

Chapter 18

 

Here are some highlights...

 

 

...

 

Śākyamuni Buddha again called to Subhūti and asked, Does the Tathāgata have the flesh eye? The flesh eye referred to is not the ordinary eye of common people, but rather one of the five eyes.

 

Why is it given the name flesh eye?

 

It is called the flesh eye because it can see tangible objects and also objects which are devoid of form or marks. Ordinary eyes can see people, but they cannot see ghosts and spirits. However, with the power of the flesh eye one can close his ordinary eyes and continue to see people. What is more, the flesh eye can examine people in the minutest detail, taking note of any distinguishing marks such as moles or birthmarks. The range of the flesh eye is much greater than that of ordinary eyes. It can see every object within a radius of five miles without obstruction.

 

The heavenly eye, on the other hand, can see clearly into the heavens. Gods can be seen dining or sitting in meditation, and one can behold other events which take place in the heavens. The heavenly eye does not perceive material objects such as people, tables, flowers, and the like.

 

The flesh eye, the heavenly eye, the Buddha eye, the wisdom eye, and the dharma eye are located on your head. The flesh eye and the heavenly eye are on opposite sides of your forehead. When your five eyes are open and you can utilize them, you yourself will know their locations.

 

We can already see all the way to the moon through the use of telescopes, someone says.

 

With the use of the heavenly eye you do not need a telescope. Everything in the heavens, everything on the moon, everything on the stars can be seen right from where you sit. Scientists now perform experiments in order to expand their powers of observation. We do not experiment. We just learn to enter samādhi and then everything can be seen very clearly. The power of the heavenly eye is very helpful in the study of astronomy. But you cannot capitalize on that ability if you acquire its use. Although the heavenly eye is a priceless gem, it cannot be sold. If you see something with the heavenly eye and try to disclose your findings, your heavenly eye will automatically disappear. It is just that wonderful. The heavenly eye cannot be used to make a profit, nor can it be used to gain power over people. If you say things like, You had better pay attention to me. I know things you dont know, you have a defect, and your heavenly eye will quickly disappear.

 

...

 

Why, you ask, does the heavenly eye function that way?

 

Arrogance is attachment to self. The reason a Bodhisattva is able to take living beings across without there being a mark of living beings, or the mark of taking them across, is because he has no attachment to self. If you obtain the power of any of the five eyes and then brag about that attainment saying, I have the heavenly eye, you dont. then you lack the requisite stature. If you originally could see clearly with the heavenly eye, you will see a little less clearly as a result of your attachment to self. If you do not see clearly but are still arrogant about the little bit of attainment you have, then you will totally lose whatever power you have gained. There is exactly that direct ratio between the power of the five eyes and the attachment to self. Therefore it is essential to understand the Buddhadharma, for if you do not, it is possible to make serious mistakes.

 

Subhūti, what do you think? Does the Tathāgata have the wisdom eye? The wisdom eye enables one to know at a glance if something is right or wrong, true or false. A stupid person mistakes what is false for what is true, and what is true for what is false. A wise person knows what is true and what is false and is not confused. Everyone needs to investigate the Buddhadharma in order to develop the wisdom eye.

 

...

 

Let us look further into the five eyes. Are they produced from within or do they come from outside? The five eyes are not produced from within; nor do they come from outside: nor do they exist in the middle. Cultivate, use effort, and when your skill is sufficient you will have them naturally. Before sufficient skill is attained, no amount of seeking will cause them to function. Seeking is false thinking. Seeking without the thought of seeking brings a response.

 

In what way does one make an effort to open ones eyes?

 

You need to be wise in managing affairs, and wise in cultivation. It is wise to recognize what is good and then courageously and vigorously work towards it. The characteristic of wisdom is to recognize and vow to cut off and cast out what is bad. Realizing something is good and yet not acting in accord with it is the characteristic of stupidity. It is stupid to recognize that something is bad business and still go ahead and become involved in it. If you are stupid, it is not easy to obtain the five eyes. In order to obtain them, everything you do must be done extremely clearly. You must be very precise and cannot be confused. What do the five eyes do?

 

The wisdom eye contemplates the nature of the dharma realm. In so doing, the wisdom eye is complete with all aspects of wisdom.

 

When you wish to consult the Buddhist sūtras, you must use a book. With the dharma eye, however, you do not need to read the sūtras, because you can see the Buddhadharma throughout all of empty space, everywhere throughout the dharma realm. There are sūtras everywhere. So it is said that the dharma eye completely illuminates the marks of the dharma. The Buddha eye enables you to understand the true meaning of all Buddhadharma. Those of you who wish to attain the Buddha eye should remember that it is located between your eyebrows. Otherwise on the day when an eye appears in that place you will utterly panic and wonder, How did I grow another eye? My telling you in advance is to spare you any fear.

 

The dharma eye can thoroughly investigate everything. Peoples prior causes and subsequent results, the penetration of past lives, the penetration of the heavenly eye, all are completely understood. The Buddha eye is extremely wonderful and inconceivable. It can see things with form and things without form, with a power several million times greater than that of the flesh eye.

 

If you obtain the five eyes, you should protect them carefully. How should you protect them? By continuing to nourish your good roots. Cultivate blessings and wisdom. Those of you who have not obtained the eyes need to work hard and develop blessings and wisdom. When your blessings and wisdom are sufficient your five eyes will open.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[goldisheavy]

This specific arrangement of the eyes is peculiar to the individual. I'm sure some bodhisattvas will experience them in the way as described. But it's not necessary for those eyes to be in the forehead. They can be anywhere. You can put those eyes in your fingers or your butt or outside your human body, it makes no difference. And you can consolidate some of the eyes, or make for yourself seven eyes instead of five.

 

Further, the injunction against talking about your eyes is only valid if you take yourself seriously and talk about your attainment with a great sense of self-importance. If you talk about it like it's no big deal and like it doesn't matter, nothing bad will happen to you.

 

The eyes described there draw their power from you being beyond convention. So if you talk about your eyes to your peers seriously, it means you intend to re-establish yourself within convention and you intend to strengthen the influence of conventional mentation on your mind. This will, indeed, weaken the special eyes because those eyes depend on being removed from convention for their power.

Edited August 16, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi GIH,

I didn't think that you could put those eyes on your butt, but I suppose it may be possible.

From what I have learned, location is everything, even the difference of a few inches.

 

Not that anyone is interested or not, but here is a thread about the third eye, along with some experiences.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24351-i-hunger-for-more

 

This thread also includes a verification of third eye sight... When I caught DNB peering at me several times. I still have his picture that he posted which confirmed what I was seeing.

 

I believe that the eyes as Buddha described them are available to anyone if they so choose to develop them through practice.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[goldisheavy]

Hi GIH,

I didn't think that you could put those eyes on your butt, but I suppose it may be possible.

From what I have learned, location is everything, even the difference of a few inches.

 

Not that anyone is interested or not, but here is a thread about the third eye, along with some experiences.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24351-i-hunger-for-more

 

This thread also includes a verification of third eye sight... When I caught DNB peering at me several times. I still have his picture that he posted which confirmed what I was seeing.

 

I believe that the eyes as Buddha described them are available to anyone if they so choose to develop them through practice.

 

Tibetan Ice, why would location be significant? Do you really think those psychic eyes are in some way connected to your human body's fleshly plumbing? You think those five eyes are biological outgrowths following ordinary laws of nature?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Tibetan Ice, why would location be significant? Do you really think those psychic eyes are in some way connected to your human body's fleshly plumbing? You think those five eyes are biological outgrowths following ordinary laws of nature?

Yes, they are sort of connected, but it is the other way around. The biological outgrowths are the physical manifestations of the inner realms. In Hindu terms, causal body, mental body, astral body, etheric body then lastly physical body.

 

And yes, location, location, location.

The central channel has a specific location relative to the body, unless the body dissolves, then what remains resembles a light body of luminous ribs just hanging suspended in a huge space that looks like outer space.

 

When I want to check if anyone is watching me, I use my inner vision and look about 1inch behind the brow. This is the same location where scenes and dreams form. The golden eye is located beyond the brow, relative to the forehead, about 4 or 5 inches out. That's the one I talk about with which you can see out to the physical world if you want. The aperture or hole at the top of the head, where the huge space exists beyond (past the feeling of dying) is almost directly above the head in the center. As well, if you gaze straight ahead, then move your attention straight back into the luminous area that appears at the back of the head, you end up in a plane of plink, white and blue where I recall being stuck for a long time before being born.

 

After the body dissolves away during meditation, these structures and locations are quite evident.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[goldisheavy]

Yes, they are sort of connected, but it is the other way around. The biological outgrowths are the physical manifestations of the inner realms. In Hindu terms, causal body, mental body, astral body, etheric body then lastly physical body.

 

And yes, location, location, location.

The central channel has a specific location relative to the body, unless the body dissolves, then what remains resembles a light body of luminous ribs just hanging suspended in a huge space that looks like outer space.

 

OK, so if you realize that the mind is the charioteer, then you should also realize that the location and the number and quality of the eyes is ultimately wide open. You can have any number and configuration of eyes.

 

I've experienced my body dissolving on a few occasions and nothing happens like you describe. The form of the human body is an illusion comparable to the form of a mickey mouse in a mickey mouse cartoon. Once the cartoon is over, there is no lingering light-body mickey mouse hanging around, except as an idea in the mind.

 

Now, with practice you can train your mind to be in a commitment that will in fact maintain a mickey mouse light body every time the mickey mouse cartoon finishes up. But if you understand that this is a result of training, and it is by nature a mental fabrication, then why would you limit yourself to just this kind of mental fabrication? Why would you not realize that the sky is the limit?

 

When I want to check if anyone is watching me, I use my inner vision and look about 1inch behind the brow. This is the same location where scenes and dreams form. The golden eye is located beyond the brow, relative to the forehead, about 4 or 5 inches out.

 

This technique is just fine for personal use. But you should realize that what makes it so is your own predilection and nothing objective. Nothing forces you to look 1 inch behind the brow. You could train yourself to look where the back of your skull is with the same result, if you wanted to.

Edited August 17, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

OK, so if you realize that the mind is the charioteer, then you should also realize that the location and the number and quality of the eyes is ultimately wide open. You can have any number and configuration of eyes.

 

I've experienced my body dissolving on a few occasions and nothing happens like you describe. The form of the human body is an illusion comparable to the form of a mickey mouse in a mickey mouse cartoon. Once the cartoon is over, there is no lingering light-body mickey mouse hanging around, except as an idea in the mind.

 

 

The dissolution of the body into the central channel was precipitated by years of kriya practice akin to spinal breathing along with a strict breathing pattern of 9-1-9-1 which was then extended to 9-3-9-3.

It is the breathing pattern that helps to detach the mind. Also, sitting zen style, perfectly still will also precipitate the dissolution of the body and mind.

 

Now, with practice you can train your mind to be in a commitment that will in fact maintain a mickey mouse light body every time the mickey mouse cartoon finishes up. But if you understand that this is a result of training, and it is by nature a mental fabrication, then why would you limit yourself to just this kind of mental fabrication? Why would you not realize that the sky is the limit?

 

 

This technique is just fine for personal use. But you should realize that what makes it so is your own predilection and nothing objective. Nothing forces you to look 1 inch behind the brow. You could train yourself to look where the back of your skull is with the same result, if you wanted to.

Well, there is a kind of all-pervasive awareness which you can tune into and then you can see far away distances. That is not confined to a specific location relative to the body. You can also pretend or visualize that you are taking another point of view, as if for example, you are sitting somewhere where your physical is not, but you assume that perspective. That works too.

 

However, there are channels in the inner body that can be opened and used, like the Kati crystal channel from the heart to the eyes. The fastest way to activate that channel is by gazing with love at something you love. You know about that, though...

 

I see these experiences as just "playing in the layers of reality" and I've always assumed that everyone can do the same with the proper karma, knowledge and practices.

 

And yes, I agree, you could probably train yourself to see visions in other parts of the body, or even, like the indigo children, read books from your armpit. Why not?

Edited August 17, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[goldisheavy]

The dissolution of the body into the central channel was precipitated by years of kriya practice akin to spinal breathing along with a strict breathing pattern of 9-1-9-1 which was then extended to 9-3-9-3.

It is the breathing pattern that helps to detach the mind. Also, sitting zen style, perfectly still will also precipitate the dissolution of the body and mind.

 

Is this your personal experience?

 

I've experienced body dissolution on a number of occasions but I wasn't doing any of the practices you mention at the time.

 

Well, there is a kind of all-pervasive awareness which you can tune into and then you can see far away distances. That is not confined to a specific location relative to the body. You can also pretend or visualize that you are taking another point of view, as if for example, you are sitting somewhere where your physical is not, but you assume that perspective. That works too.

 

So you admit the process is entirely mental, and whether or not it "works" depends entirely on your commitment (which is to say, it depends on your overall state of volition/intent).

 

However, there are channels in the inner body that can be opened and used, like the Kati crystal channel from the heart to the eyes. The fastest way to activate that channel is by gazing with love at something you love. You know about that, though...

 

I agree that such practice can be very helpful and useful for a lot of people. What I don't agree with is that it's an objectively correct practice that is always so for everyone. This kind of practices works best for people with specific predilections that are tuned for such a practice.

 

I'll give you another example. There is a practice I've been doing long time ago where I would abandon my body at will (I'm not talking about astral projection here). I tried to explain this practice to a number of people, and none of them could actually do it. In fact, even my words made no sense to them. So that means such a practice is not a good one for those folks. They can't connect. What I say flies in the face of the assumptions they make about reality, and it flies in the face of their commitments to those assumptions. It was a great practice for me, but a shitty one for those other folks.

 

I see these experiences as just "playing in the layers of reality" and I've always assumed that everyone can do the same with the proper karma, knowledge and practices.

 

Yea, compatible (your word here was "proper") intent, knowledge and practices are required. Trouble is, no one gets to decide what's proper for another being. Different people have different propensities and unique peculiarities.

 

All we can do is present others with what worked for ourselves and hope for the best.

Edited August 17, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Tibetan_Ice]

Yes that is my own personal experience. I did 6 years in total of kriya yoga.

I don't think there is one practice that is good for everyone, except maybe "love yourself". Every person is at a different level and has different things to work out. I mean, even Buddhism distinguishes between capacities and capabilities of the practitioner. It is important though to not try to find a "one size fits all" type of teaching because you'll lose the top and bottom of the bell curve.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[goldisheavy]

Yes that is my own personal experience. I did 6 years in total of kriya yoga.

I don't think there is one practice that is good for everyone, except maybe "love yourself". Every person is at a different level and has different things to work out. I mean, even Buddhism distinguishes between capacities and capabilities of the practitioner. It is important though to not try to find a "one size fits all" type of teaching because you'll lose the top and bottom of the bell curve.

 

There is no bell curve. Other than that, I agree with you completely. People all have unique inner situations and that doesn't make them objectively worse or better. Of course we can each have our opinions about other people's spiritual situations as we perceive them, but those opinions do not constitute objective judgements, as near as I can tell.

Edited August 17, 2014 by goldisheavy

[allinone]

you don't need five eyes to become enlightened. This is absurd.

 

Ghosts, gods have 5 eyes by default. Why i need to develop 5 eyes?

Edited August 20, 2014 by allinone

[goldisheavy]

you don't need five eyes to become enlightened. This is absurd.

 

Ghosts, gods have 5 eyes by default. Why i need to develop 5 eyes?

 

Why do you need to be enlightened? Being enlightened will not make you popular.

[MooNiNite]

the buddha eye really does feel quite physical and real. but i don't think i'v felt the others..unless one is on top of the head..

 

but opening the buddha eye doesn't make one enlightened, it opens and closes for a while until it is sustained and then one is enlightened i guess..

Edited August 23, 2014 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

I don't advise going straight to opening the third eye, as some say. this is because it awakens the mental(psychic) energy, which will go out of control. a person could go mad without the foundation of the other centers

[allinone]

Why do you need to be enlightened? Being enlightened will not make you popular.

 

enlightenment can't be taken away. Eyes can be taken away.

[MooNiNite]

Yes that is my own personal experience. I did 6 years in total of kriya yoga.

I don't think there is one practice that is good for everyone, except maybe "love yourself". Every person is at a different level and has different things to work out. I mean, even Buddhism distinguishes between capacities and capabilities of the practitioner. It is important though to not try to find a "one size fits all" type of teaching because you'll lose the top and bottom of the bell curve.

 

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Do you know the locations of the five eyes?

 

I understand the Buddha Eye is in between the forehead. The Flesh Eye/Heavenly Eye is on the sides of the forehead. Which one on which side?

 

Also do you know the location of the other two eyes? I believe one is above the Buddha Eye sort of above the forehead. 

 

Maybe one is directly on top of the head.

 

Do you have a better understanding?

 

Thanks

 

Moon

Edited April 7, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Spotless]

The idea that one must aquire some set of abilities in order to become enlightened is just dogma.

 

However, in the practical application of a teaching certain things said in a moment become concrete.

 

It is not important to focus upon the development of the eyes of this topic - but if you are doing practice the development will certainly come. If you focus on this development and it is from trance then you will learn much technical information perhaps but you will not know it and what you know may hinder real understanding.

 

-----

 

To Goldisheavy - you do not understand what you are talking about - you have no clue in your cute reply that you can grow them on your butt. You speak from a presumptive level that has the strong echo of someone taking from well up their a__.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Spotless

[Tibetan_Ice]

The idea that one must aquire some set of abilities in order to become enlightened is just dogma.

 

 

 

i think that to be an authority on enlightenment, one must first be enlightened. Anything else is just hearsay.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Hi Tibetan Ice,

 

Do you know the locations of the five eyes?

 

I understand the Buddha Eye is in between the forehead. The Flesh Eye/Heavenly Eye is on the sides of the forehead. Which one on which side?

 

Also do you know the location of the other two eyes? I believe one is above the Buddha Eye sort of above the forehead.

 

Maybe one is directly on top of the head.

 

Do you have a better understanding?

 

Thanks

 

Moon

I don't think that the flesh and heavenly eyes are on the sides of the forehead. I think the flesh eye is looking out from between the brows and the heavenly eye might be looking inwards from between the brows.

The other problem you have when trying to map non physical eyes to translations from foreign languages is there is much lost in the translations.

Also, according to Bon and Dzogchen, there are several "eyes" or lamps that are found in just the channels of the eyes.

I would recommend getting The Yeshe Lama book:

 

VIDYADHARA jiGMED LINGPA

From the Heart Essence ofthe Vast Expanse ofthe Great Perfection, A Practice Manual for the Stages ofthe

Path ofthe Original Protector

entitled YesheLama

Translated by

Lama Chonam and Sangye Khandro of the Light of Berotsana Translation Group

[MooNiNite]

There is much debate about siddhis or psychic powers when it comes to Buddhism and enlightenment.

 

Every now and then I come across some writings that confirm the idea that you have to develop these powers in order to become enlightened, or at least to be able to understand the dharma.

 

This is one of those writings:

 

From http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page208

Chapter 18

 

Here are some highlights...

 

 

it is a bit confusing. He refers to the flesh eye as being a subtle eye. But in this newsletter he refers to it as being just the normal physical eyes.

 

http://chancenter.org/cmc/1987/10/08/the-five-eyes/

[Spotless]

Where is the original text / translation from that was posted in the original post here?

 

It is actually a very very poor conveyance on the topic of the Five Eyes. It is quite possible the original was good but that this translation is so mangled.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Spotless

[Tibetan_Ice]

it is a bit confusing. He refers to the flesh eye as being a subtle eye. But in this newsletter he refers to it as being just the normal physical eyes.

 

http://chancenter.org/cmc/1987/10/08/the-five-eyes/

Those texts were written by two different people. Is the "he" you are referring to Buddha?

Commentaries can be misleading as they are interpretations.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Where is the original text / translation from that was posted in the original post here?

 

It is actually a very very poor conveyance on the topic of the Five Eyes. It is quite possible the original was good but that this translation is so mangled.

Are you saying that this link is mangled? http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page208

 

Hmm. Perhaps the pdf was reformatted? The part on the eyes appears to be on page 177 now, not 208.

http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page177

Edited July 1, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[MooNiNite]

Those texts were written by two different people. Is the "he" you are referring to Buddha?

Commentaries can be misleading as they are interpretations.

ya just mixed up the authors.

 

but different perspectives are kinda interesting.

 

Charles Luk referres to the 5 eyes as subtle also

[Bodhicitta]

A little Q & A with Master Hsuan Hua:

 

Q: How do I open the five eyes and the six powers?

Master Hua: What in the world for? Why would you want to do that?

 

Q: To walk the Bodhisattva Path.
Master Hua: Why do you want to do that? If you know what you are walking it for, then you know how to get the eyes and powers. Look at a baby. He knows how to drink milk very naturally. If you can cut off desire and put down all worldly dharmas, and can be adorned with the myriad virtues, then you can get them. If you only know to seek shortcuts, forget it. It's not possible for you.

 

Q: How can you cultivate the world-transcending path at home?

Master Hua: Layman Pang of the T'ang Dynasty succeeded in cultivation while at home. Don't forever be asking "How? How? How?" Use your time well. Don't ask about the five eyes and six powers. This is like climbing a tree to look for fish. You won't find any fish there.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Bodhicitta