Deep-Centers

[Spotless]

The "development of the chakras" is not as accurate as the "unfolding" of the chakras.

 

It is a process more like driving around in the car you own and then slowly finding out that it has all sorts of gizmos that you were not aware of before. Then at some point the fuel changes and certain things that could not function are definitely functioning now.

Then some odd parts of you start to bumping into things and you can't travel well in certain areas you used to go - because the things you are bumping with are wings and now you start to realize you have never been in a car to begin with. It is usually at that point you realize just how great a flying instructor would be.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Spotless

[Mandrake]

Dear Trunk:

 

I echo the others regarding opening a fascinating topic - thanks.

 

I know that you have meditated under Mark Griffin many times. The way he utilizes the breath, to connect all the centers from the perineum through the center of the body to the crown, is interesting. Do you have any thoughts on this, conneting it to this discussion here?

 

Kindly,

Mandrake

[hagar]

Mixed.

 

While I'd say that "opening the tissues and channels" is definitely part of the process (as well as other things). With the deep-center ~ Big Light integration we're talking about a late-stage culmination that I think is worth clarifying early so as to provide orientation as to "where things are headed" in general and "what to look for" in methods/schools/etc, sort of like taking a compass heading for a long hike. I'm somewhat disillusioned about what the microcosmic orbit is marketed as in popular schools. imo&e, 1. Opening all of the channels is important and 2. the mco doesn't provide balanced resolution, the central channel does. Though certainly du and ren are important, just often marketed in an unrealistic way, imo&e, often coupled with dubious methods. That said.

 

What I've found in my own process (also similarly from various online Tao pals) is that after a while du & ren not only loop-de-loop, but also interact directly across. For instance, the navel and/or Ren-6 QiHai with Du-4 MingMen. I find that if there's just a little empty brightness in the middle, between those jump-across interactions, that that middle brightness refines the outter energies as they go back and forth (in various ways, I wouldn't try to force it just a certain single way). To restate: So that by having some deep-center brightness, and including adjacent points of du & ren, the points / energies of du & ren get activated / refined. ime, It's a more efficient way of working w/ du & ren. I'm certainly not saying it's the *only* way, just saying that's been my experience. Similar technique can be used with adjacent left & right (thrusting channels or ida & pingala, however you want to name them or experience them).

 

Now, that approach is not full "universal energy integration" but at least effectively utilizes and cultivates the centers, deep-centers, sushumna integrates 'em with other aspects of the body.

 

 

That's not been my experience; it's been more widely available. However (just guessing) it could be that that time is particularly still and so stillness is more accessible internally.

 

Must digest that. About the MCO etc; completely agree. Working actively with the MCO is dubious at best. If real integration starts to happen it deepens and strengthens by itself. And yes, interaction happens laterally. I have had spontaneous interaaction between all the cavities in front/back.

 

What I do experience is that opening the lowest deep center is really hard. In addition, I feel that these centers continue, not only do I feel there is a center at the knees, but also below the feet.

 

Thoughts?

[joeblast]

mco, deep centers, deepens and strengthens by itself, mhmmm

[Trunk]

Many comments that resonate, thanks.

 

While most often we experience them as just rising, I'd add that the energies do go up and down. While the primary work is to establish each center of-its-own, they also share in both directions. Some versions of kan & li are about this: fire is brought down to mix with water as well. Bringing the upper energies down to the lower make the lower energies less dense & stubborn, more supple and kind. Bringing the lower energies to the upper helps to stablize, anchor, nourish the upper.

 

I know that you have meditated under Mark Griffin many times. The way he utilizes the breath, to connect all the centers from the perineum through the center of the body to the crown, is interesting. Do you have any thoughts on this, conneting it to this discussion here?

I sat with Mark Griffin steadily for some years in the '90s, so I'm not familiar with all of his newer material... I don't have enough familiarity with that breathing technique to comment, but I've got a few other thoughts.

 

First, he is extremely advanced and perceptive. He can start a lecture about simple breath mechanics and end with how that culminates in maha-samadhi. Or give very detailed descriptions of subtle body mechanics and other advanced topics. It's dazzling and can be very informative as well as sometimes confusing. I found that once I understood the basic process of how the universal energies integrate with the potent places along sushumna and how that culminates in sushumna lighting up as a whole ... it was a huge missing piece for me and it helped me make more sense of his lectures, put a great deal of info in context, and I found that he was often talking about that process all the time and I just hadn't recognized it. A lot fell into place.

 

Also for a student, knowing that the deep-centers are the key to skillfully integrating the universal energies ... and then focusing and refining there (either through direct ability or aided by method) ... that gives a student the key to integrating the higher energies into their own centers. Without knowing that, the higher transmissions wash through you (and you may receive considerable benefit and stages of work) but a key part of really anchoring the transmissions into your own body is missing: your own knowledge of where to focus to foster the process.

 

One of the methods, tools, that Mark clarified that I keep going back to is the mantra "so ham". He's got a number of lectures on so ham I think in his podcasts and certainly at the Hard Light store. I find the so ham mantra to be a brilliantly simple and deep way of accessing and cultivating the whole central channel. For starters I find that "so" opens the central channel from the top down and "ham" closes/fills/resonates it from the bottom up. It integrates with the breath wonderfully and simply right from the beginning, even if I've not warmed up. Very simple, very useful. And then it can go into more integrative advanced states. Mark's lectures on "so ham" are brilliant and detailed.

 

Also, in mentioning Mark Griffin, I just have to say, his level of transmissions is *astounding*. In person and/or through live streaming over the internet. Just totally off the scale. I feel kind of silly in that I have to go to hyperbole and a half to even begin to describe. It's an astonishing opportunity.

[Uroboros]

Trunk,

 

Is the SoHam mantra done vocally on exhale or is it done mentally? Another way I have heard is hearing it in the inhale and exhale.

 

It is one I keep hearing solid teachers go back to...

 

Thinking about the upper and lower centers. Awareness seems to be located in the UTT. Would merging our awareness into the LTT be a mixing of the two energies/ centers? I remember reading that in a meditation book, somewhere...

Edited August 25, 2014 by Uroboros

[Mandrake]

Awesome post Trunk, and thank you all for your contributions. Let's keep this going. Feels a bit like the spirit of early days-ttb to me; )

 

 

Mandrake

[Mandrake]

Oh, btw Trunk:

 

You mentioned The Six Yogas of Naropa. In the instructions there he explains how to use compressed breath in the process (holding the breath with various locks, focusing on different chakra points). Have you experimented with this, and how does it differ, in your experience?

 

 

Mandrake

[Trunk]

Is the SoHam mantra done vocally on exhale or is it done mentally? Another way I have heard is hearing it in the inhale and exhale.

Mentally. "So" on the inhale, "ham" on exhale. For more details, listen to MGriffin's talks.

Thinking about the upper and lower centers. Awareness seems to be located in the UTT. Would merging our awareness into the LTT be a mixing of the two energies/ centers? I remember reading that in a meditation book, somewhere...

Yup, that's one of the things that can happen.

 

 

You mentioned The Six Yogas of Naropa. In the instructions there he explains how to use compressed breath in the process (holding the breath with various locks, focusing on different chakra points). Have you experimented with this, and how does it differ, in your experience?

I dunno, haven't done that part of the 6 Yogas practices. (And some of the more freaky of the 6 Yogas I'd avoid altogether.) The concise of what I got out of the 6 Yogas book was "enter, abide and dissolve"; it's a key phrase. And that that is applied to *each* chakra. (The distinct layers of dissolving in there are beyond me.) Some of the basic reading in that book around that basic part of the practice ... really good.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Trunk

[soaring crane]

woah, classic thread, mega-kudos to Trunk for starting it

 

a short nugget I want to jot down before I sign off for the night -- I used to exclude the chakras completely from my practice and from my world-view. But now I see it like this: the three classic dantiens associate with the 'even numbered' chakras, and the four remaining chakras function as gates or could be seen as smaller centers that are more closely associated with movement or transformation (enabling and encouraging it, or hindering it as needed and where necessary) between the three dantien. I would perhaps associate them with communication.

[allinone]

A balance approach to the development of the chakras is advised and one should start from the lower chakras up.

 

However it is erroneous to look at this from the idea that "I am going to do this and then this".

 

You must try to not be under the illusion that you know what you are doing or that you know where you are "at" in all of this.

 

In quieting the mind you should get an idea of what you need to work on. And work on oneself is far better done in a group.

Specific work on the upper chakras is generally nonsense because it is not what you "do" to the chakra that does anything with the exception of detour or obstruction.

 

The chakras open in accordance with the fuels you are creating within your space. And you are not actively creating them, they are by products of your work and effort which are most fruitful in learning not to indulge your proclivities, learning neutrality and overcoming "life everywhere but in the present". These things comprise your delusion of your existence and separate you by way of your self consciousness and vanity.

 

Meditation, postures, breathing - these are tools to move finer and ever finer energies throughout your space. This energy knows exactly where to go - it immediately works on energy compressions.

 

With a teacher or naturally in group work, you will / should see where you need to work on yourself, your indulgences such as anger, overpowering sexual urges, self righteous judgement, sentimentalism, victim ism, self worship, and many other things. Each time you begin to lessen these indulgences you are dissipating less of your energy and it is increasingly transforming and creating finer vibrations.

 

The energies will rise up from below - not the other way around and certain types of energy will not bypass lower areas until that area is able to allow that to transmit through. (Obviously one can force this in every way possible and the results can be "very interesting").

 

Most seekers are not actually very serious in their pursuit of setting themselves aside - they want to do do do do do do do do do and then finally be able to do - they did it in the past and in their mind because of what they did in the past they are doing it now and will be doing more in the future. They are now indulged in the doing of seeking - it becomes an engineering project - at best base upon "proven" ancient teaching 3/4s of which are incorrect, premature or someone else's engineering project.

 

If you are extremely fortunate and you are able to come to the stage in which you truely begin to understand you know nothing, and you manage to find a teacher - he/she or the teaching will constantly send you to that which will recalibrate you to the present.

 

When you are ready - at some point you will pop into the now and remain there - enlightening.

 

With regard to deep center work - it will come to you, you do not need to go to it. The engineers will disagree but if you are sincerely working on yourself, you will come to unbending attractions toward work on some portion of your false self because it is unbearable to do otherwise. And you will attract the answers because the whole of the universe is with you.

 

In this last year I needed to work on some deep heart work - but I did not really know it at the time. But I was in a workshop with a realized teacher and he had us do some deep heart work (it was a simple one day workshop). Not long after that I kept becoming veklumpt when doing some advanced work. My teacher directed me to concentrate my awareness more on my LDT at that time though I had not told him about getting chocked up during the advanced work.

 

Somehow - I really "heard him" on this and in keeping my awareness on my LDT, I am no longer indulged in the lower emotions of the higher heart center but am able to reside in the higher ones. This then had a huge effect not many weeks later when my crown chakra opened up and merged with my already opened third eye area. I now walk around with a top and inner head of lightness.

 

What i was talking is how to get to samadhi and how to go from there. I admit i have made a mistake, i have put two separate things on top of each other, but its not a mistake it just makes opening the crown twice as hard but when you do it then you know that you have opened it second time.

 

When you are dealing with the methodless method then its all depends on your own effort how much time you put in, how fast you progress. The difference between the do do do do do guys from the regulars who take it halfhearted(other things first then if there is time for couple hours meditaion before bedtime) is half century. do do guy does burn his life in years.

 

oh yes opening the crown first time there i didn't really know what is suffering, it gets really worse later. Its like 90 percent suffering (10 percent beautiful time when you are absorbing energies coming after breakthroughs).

 

You can realize waking up to the opened crown in next day/s if you figure it out how. Its much harder to figure out how to continue progress in that pure consciousness or samadhi. At second crown opening, its much harder to wake up to the opened crown and its almost too hard to realize what to do to ignite third time energies(i wasted many months believing i have completed since there isn't any singe vibration or other sign no matter what i did, it all was because lack of knowledge).

 

I used at the beginning yoga, i did Qi gong, pranayama, mantras but nothing beats the brains ability to figure out things by simple reasoning and observation and learning from scriptures how and why and what is the goal and then trying to do your thing, basically yes forcing yourself through your own self.

 

And top of it, the path is fundamentally technical, just need to start opening second time the crown and will see it that some things start to repeat but are more detailed and some things are done manually.

 

There is no need for teachers. Buddhadharma is made for people who live in Dharma ending age where's there is no real teacher.

 

lolz the method is samadhi after you can enter it by opening the crown and still need to continue figure out things, by this time you surely have figured out that all the issues comes from the self.

why samadhi? when you enter it then you feel it on your nerves and can force to make them more "shining" or fire what you can't to so fast if any with the Qi gong or any other method outside the samadhi. It will bring out the faults of self fast and suffering comes and it will point you the door to breakthrough again.

Edited August 26, 2014 by allinone

[C T]

There is no need for teachers. Buddhadharma is made for people who live in Dharma ending age where's there is no real teacher.

 

lolz the method is samadhi after you can enter it by opening the crown and still need to continue figure out things, by this time you surely have figured out that all the issues comes from the self.

why samadhi? when you enter it then you feel it on your nerves and can force to make them more "shining" or fire what you can't to so fast if any with the Qi gong or any other method outside the samadhi. It will bring out the faults of self fast and suffering comes and it will point you the door to breakthrough again.

Its because of this Dharma-ending age that the priority becomes more urgent to discern true and false teachings, also true and false teachers. Perhaps you have your personal reasons for uttering that statement, but from a Vajrayana perspective a practitioner's path cannot be completed (reach fruition) without refuge in the Teacher, who is part of the triune of Lama, Yidam and Khandro, = Ground, Path & Fruition, or View, Meditation & Action, or Buddha, Dharma & Sangha. At the more subtle energetic body level, the triune consists of Channel, Winds & Energies. This is a logical sequence to the whole of the Mahayana path, and all 3 are interconnected -- at the level of result, these 3 unfold as the Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya, ultimately.

 

Just to further clarify:

 

At the gross level, the practice one takes on unfolds as ground (view), path (meditation) and frution (action).

At the subtle level, it unfolds as channels, winds and energies.

At the subtlemost level, it unfolds as lama, yidam and khandro.

 

The above can also be further classified, in terms of approach, as Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga.

 

At the culminating point, the Svabhavikakaya, having dissolved all gross and subtle defilements,

the inseparability or union of Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya & Dharmakaya becomes established in the

practitioner. Where waverings are completely exhausted, that level is known as 'Mahasukhakaya'

or buddhahood.

 

In Chinese, this triune is known as Sanshen.

 

In Vajrayana, for example, it is said that those of lesser intelligence works with ground, path and fruition.

Those of middling intelligence works with channels, winds and energies,

and those of superior intelligence works with lama, yidam and khandro.

But this is not to be misunderstood as something discriminatory, rather,

it affords recognition of the various capacities of individuals, and every

single practitioner can avail of teachings and practices accordingly,

either by gradually ascending the Path or, should affinity allow, be able

to skip some of the lesser preparatory stages.

 

So it does not follow that one can actually dispense with a teacher if one has the goal to attain complete

fruition. Of course, we all have the freedom to utilise what knowledge we have to work a way towards the

same goal, but some knowledge can prevent obstacles (what you call sufferings) more than others. Hence,

the general encouragement for Mahayana practitioners is to always be open to following a good teacher,

devotedly, for a period of time (usually many years) as this ensures a more stable fulfilment of one's spiritual

aims with as less hiccups as possible.

[allinone]

Its because of this Dharma-ending age that the priority becomes more urgent to discern true and false teachings, also true and false teachers. Perhaps you have your personal reasons for uttering that statement, but from a Vajrayana perspective a practitioner's path cannot be completed (reach fruition) without refuge in the Teacher, who is part of the triune of Lama, Yidam and Khandro, = Ground, Path & Fruition, or View, Meditation & Action, or Buddha, Dharma & Sangha. At the more subtle energetic body level, the triune consists of Channel, Winds & Energies. This is a logical sequence to the whole of the Mahayana path, and all 3 are interconnected -- at the level of result, these 3 unfold as the Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya and Dharmakaya, ultimately.

 

Just to further clarify:

 

At the gross level, the practice one takes on unfolds as ground (view), path (meditation) and frution (action).

At the subtle level, it unfolds as channels, winds and energies.

At the subtlemost level, it unfolds as lama, yidam and khandro.

 

The above can also be further classified, in terms of approach, as Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga.

 

At the culminating point, the Svabhavikakaya, having dissolved all gross and subtle defilements,

the inseparability or union of Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya & Dharmakaya becomes established in the

practitioner. Where waverings are completely exhausted, that level is known as 'Mahasukhakaya'

or buddhahood.

 

In Chinese, this triune is known as Sanshen.

 

In Vajrayana, for example, it is said that those of lesser intelligence works with ground, path and fruition.

Those of middling intelligence works with channels, winds and energies,

and those of superior intelligence works with lama, yidam and khandro.

But this is not to be misunderstood as something discriminatory, rather,

it affords recognition of the various capacities of individuals, and every

single practitioner can avail of teachings and practices accordingly,

either by gradually ascending the Path or, should affinity allow, be able

to skip some of the lesser preparatory stages.

 

So it does not follow that one can actually dispense with a teacher if one has the goal to attain complete

fruition. Of course, we all have the freedom to utilise what knowledge we have to work a way towards the

same goal, but some knowledge can prevent obstacles (what you call sufferings) more than others. Hence,

the general encouragement for Mahayana practitioners is to always be open to following a good teacher,

devotedly, for a period of time (usually many years) as this ensures a more stable fulfilment of one's spiritual

aims with as less hiccups as possible.

 

Probably the need for teacher is deep belief that higher level teacher can give you a level up(Fruition). He can help you for sure.

Cessation of suffering, enlightement is you know the way to its cessation from your own personal experience.

 

Possible is why people don't awake because their mind is too comfortable with life, not suffering enough, for some even suffering does not help because there still is somekind hope for some miracle or someone will give them a solution that can be used like a spoon.

 

Later you need to set up your own special discipline to cultivate your mind and eventually see through your own mind and destroy it to attain next level.

To choose discipline:

You need to make your mind receptive to suffering, where you come to be able to repent this will make your energies open and you then cultivate these energies. It feels like when you have a stuffy nose but something triggers it to become open.

 

Scriptures are written by someone else and translated by someone else and commented by someone else. Through their eyes i try to see what might be the truth through my own filters.

Obviously high level teacher will be a huge help. His sayings i hear through my own filters and their teachings i read through my own filters i will just know the teachers name and physical appearance, what else is different?

[Trunk]

Working actively with the MCO is dubious at best. ... And yes, interaction happens laterally. I have had spontaneous interaaction between all the cavities in front/back.

lol, discussion sites have been really helpful. Before, if something wasn't working for me, the component of "it's just me and I just have to work harder" was over-blown. Online you see 5, 10, 20 people with the same difficulty and many of us come to the same solution, lol: it helps.

 

What I do experience is that opening the lowest deep center is really hard.

Yup.

 

In addition, I feel that these centers continue, not only do I feel there is a center at the knees, but also below the feet.

Of the legs themselves there is something special about the knees... but also, the legs are the left and right. The central channel continues between the legs, ime, and there's a center between the thighs, between the shins and a big 'un below the feet. And there are centers above the head. Tibetan art displays a lot, including the "human egg" (around the whole body). (Fumbling for a better wording for "human egg", haven't found it.)

 

 

p.s.

Somewhere in the Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong thread I've mentioned adapting the basic technique that Sifu Matsuo teaches in order to access centers below the pelvis.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Trunk

[hagar]

lol, discussion sites have been really helpful. Before, if something wasn't working for me, the component of "it's just me and I just have to work harder" was over-blown. Online you see 5, 10, 20 people with the same difficulty and many of us come to the same solution, lol: it helps.

 

Yup.

 

Of the legs themselves there is something special about the knees... but also, the legs are the left and right. The central channel continues between the legs, ime, and there's a center between the thighs, between the shins and a big 'un below the feet. And there are centers above the head. Tibetan art displays a lot, including the "human egg" (around the whole body). (Fumbling for a better wording for "human egg", haven't found it.)

 

Av_Avalokiteshvara40_Crop.jpeg

 

p.s.

Somewhere in the Kwan Yin Magnetic Qigong thread I've mentioned adapting the basic technique that Sifu Matsuo teaches in order to access centers below the pelvis.

Did some Shen forms yesterday, and realize they are all about the center.

Funny thing, but it seems to me that to make them work, they condense and draw the energy to the center, and its not really any chi sensation. Just light, and radiation.

It feels like the entire central channel is activated, yet I also feel how physical blockages, especially in the lower torso and spine interfere with activating the centers below the pelvis.

The radical thing about these forms are that the are so light, so effortless and the heat they produce are immense, but not in the sweaty way. More like a light bulb.

 

h

[Trunk]

woah, classic thread, mega-kudos to Trunk for starting it

Thanks. If you want to push it to the pop-charts, 'like' the original post.

 

Did some Shen forms yesterday, and realize they are all about the center.

Funny thing, but it seems to me that to make them work, they condense and draw the energy to the center, and its not really any chi sensation. Just light, and radiation.

It feels like the entire central channel is activated, yet I also feel how physical blockages, especially in the lower torso and spine interfere with activating the centers below the pelvis.

The radical thing about these forms are that the are so light, so effortless and the heat they produce are immense, but not in the sweaty way. More like a light bulb.

Yup, yup, yup. All on-target w/ my experience as well (though through different methods). It's amazing once you get where this is leading to, you see how it exists in many systems, schools, methods.

 

I've found bagua to be the most simple and effective for the spine, for me so far. Whatever gets you there.

 

 

I mentioned earlier that I'd been using the mani mantra, mentally not aloud, sounded resonate the centers, add the visualized syllables to focus the energy into deep-centers. (Fun painting project to learn the syllables well enough to visualize. Accessories: brush pen essential, sumi-e book optional fun.) Here's a quick sketch.

 

I've thought to write an e-book on this deep-center topic, using the mani mantra as illustrative method. If I ever get it finished (I'm pretty burnt out on writing) I'll go into detail there ... but plenty of basics in this thread to get started if a person wants to.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Trunk

[joeblast]

anterior longitudinal ligament breathing

[Trunk]

p.s.

A light bulb is actually a pretty good metaphor...

 

If you're around a light bulb, where do you see the light? Everywhere, the whole room is lit up.

... but where is the light bulb concentrating? It's own filament. Very concentrated. That's where the alchemy is happening.

 

Insights there about personal practice. Also about the experience of sitting with a teacher, common mistakes made vs getting the most out of it.

[joeblast]

^big excellent point there

 

in the face of delightful phenomena,

focus on them instead of that which is producing them,

and byebye phenomena and state that supports it

 

 

hehe....om, hung....I have two bowls with those characters. Om I already knew. hung....now I'm curious what it does with that tingsha-esque flutter when sung with my 5 buddhas bowl

[liminal_luke]

I'm sure it's old news for many but I've never worked much with mantra and the power kind of surprised me. My partner suggested we meditate together yesterday with a video on youtube, and we ended up selecting Om Mani Padme Hum set to music. Wow...just listening and occasionally humming here and there--deeply centering.

 

Liminal

[joeblast]

just as you permeate yourself with qi cultivated in practiced, so permeate yourself with mantra when doing it, as if every cell also says the mantra also, every energy center harmoniously joins the chorus

[Trunk]

hehe....om, hung....I have two bowls with those characters. Om I already knew. hung....now I'm curious what it does with that tingsha-esque flutter when sung with my 5 buddhas bowl

You'll see "hung" spelled different ways (commonly "hum", also it seems to me somehow also like "hugn" like the g & the n are very intertwined). Also, the way I've ascribed them to centers: not always that way in texts or other formal sources. "Hum" is often associated with the heart center in texts. I've actually never seen the mani mantra ascribed to centers at all other than by myself (though I mentioned it to 1 teacher I met acknowledged this way of doing it). This is just something I've found that feels natural and works (both for me and for friends I've introduced the format to). Kind of like, "bing!", immediately 'fits' and feels right. I've had various experiences with it that confirm for me, imo&e, that this is a natural way that it works. Also, it's integral with deity yoga and Guan Yin is acknowledged *very* widely in eastern schools. "Travels well" if you're inclined to explore various eastern schools over the long haul.

 

I find that the mani mantra and so ham concisely take care of things for me, mantra-wise.

 

p.s.

re: "om", I've also seen/used various ways. There is the use as the center of the brain as I use in the mani mantra. I've seen one teacher resonate their whole skull using "om". Also, I personally interpret "om" as a concatenation of "so ham", used similarly for whole central channel. (Again, reference Mark Griffin's excellent lectures on "so ham".)

Edited September 7, 2014 by Trunk