The three realms and meditative quiescence, psychic powers.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I was reading this and I came to some realizations. I wonder if these realizations or assumptions are accurate.

 

From A Spacious Path to Freedom: Practical Instructions on the Union of Mahamudra and Atiyoga by Karma Chagme

 

 

Due to the nine methods for sustaining attention [presented] generally in the sutras, one first accomplishes single-pointed quiescence of the desire realm. Upon accomplishing the fourth [stabilization], one achieves the five extrasensory perceptions resulting from the path of extrasensory perception. These are common to non-Buddhist adepts and to the Buddhist sutras and tantras. In contrast, this quiescence, which is accomplished by means of the sequence of instructions of Mahamudra and so on, arises from the essential points of practical teachings. In the very nature of single-pointed attention of the desire realm there are qualities comparable to the four stabilizations, and upon that basis the stabilizations of divine abodes23 are achieved. Then even without difficulty one first achieves just a portion of quiescence as the basis of insight. But one does not practice as if the mundane stabilizations alone were the most important.

 

- "Single-pointed quiescence of the desire realm" refers to single-pointed attention of a mind-state that remains in the desire realm, as opposed to the form or formless realms. While extrasensory perceptions are not unique to Buddhist practice, the technique for developing quiescence in this context is unique to Mahamudra and this lineage. The single-pointed attention of the desire realm is a more basic or coarse degree of samadhi than those of the four stabilizations, and yet its attributes and benefits are said to be comparable to these more subtle states of samadhi. Upon the basis of this quiescence, higher states of rebirth may be achieved: the abodes of the gods of the desire realm, form realm, and formless realm. We do not practice meditative stabilization simply because it gives rise to paranormal abilities and extrasensory perception; the cultivation of meditative stabilization is significant because it acts as a basis of insight.

 

 

Then, when you read the instructions for posture, all the examples say to keep the eyes partially open.

 

Ok. Here are my assumptions.

 

1) because this text is saying that you must first achieve quiescence in the the desire realm, keeping your eyes open helps you stay in the desire realm, or at least stay connected to the desire realm.

 

2) if, when you meditate, you close your eyes and then you pass through that stage when the body drops away (it feels like a wave passes through you and you become what feels like a vaporous cloud), you have entered the realm of form.

 

3) it is harder to maintain quiescence in the realm of form, and according to those instructions quoted above, you should first achieve quiescence in the realm of desire. This is what grants the extraordinary powers(psychic powers)

 

4) whenever I have meditated with eyes partially open, my kundalini goes crazy. It feels like a constant orgasm is occurring and after my body feels like it has been electrocuted. Lots of heat in the head, chest and arms. Severe bouts of diarhea afterwards too. LOL

 

5) eyes open meditation is an effort to achieve quiescence in the realm of desire, and this produces ecstasy. The ecstasy that is produced is the rapture talked about in the first four jhanas.

 

6) the instructions above are saying that one first stabilizes in common consciousness. One should not close the eyes during this practice because it will precipitate the transmigration into the realm of form. One has to remain and stabilize in ordinary every day consciousness in order to achieve what they are talking about, and even though this is not the goal, it is the first step.

 

Oh, here is a short blurb about the three realms..

 

http://www.ibd-buddhism.org/Abhi/pdf/2013Spring-HC/201305020SanghaH26.pdf

 

Do you have any insights into these assumptions?

Edited August 20, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[Tibetan_Ice]

Here is some more about the gaze, from that same book:

 

The Great Instructions states: Furthermore, these are the purposes of having an appropriate posture: By having the legs in the [vajra] position, the descending wind is directed into the central channel, the mental affliction of jealousy is calmed, and one is not struck by interferences. By having the hands in the mudra of meditative equipoise four finger-widths beneath the navel, the vital energy of water is directed into the central channel, and the affliction of hatred is calmed. Due to the spine being straight like an arrow and the shoulders being raised like the wings of a vulture, the vital energy of earth is directed into the central channel, and delusion is calmed. By tucking the chin slightly down towards the chest, the vital energy of fire is directed into the central channel, and attachment is calmed. By not squinting the eyes, but directing the gaze four finger-widths beyond the tip of the nose, and by pressing the tongue up against the palate, the vital energy of air is directed into the central channel, pride is calmed, and awareness is made clear. Moreover, the critical factor for the mind is the vital energy; the critical factor for the vital energy is the channels; the critical factor for the channels is in the eyes, so it is important that the manner of gazing not be faulty. Thus, due to the body having the five attributes or the seven attributes of meditative stabilization, the five poisons naturally subside, and the vital energy and mind are naturally directed into the central channel. Then all conceptualizations naturally cease, you feel comfortable, at ease, and bright; and realizations swiftly arise. Therefore, the physical posture is important.

 

The normal function of the descending wind is expelling the urine and feces. In this posture, a great deal of emphasis is placed on the way to direct the gaze. Mastering this point is good preparation for the more advanced phase of Atiyoga practice called the "Leap-over," in which the gaze is of critical importance.

 

The leap over is thogal, which is the practice of gazing at the sky to activate the Kati channel. Again, the eyes are open...

 

Interesting stuff!

[Tibetan_Ice]

Does anyone know for sure where "four finger widths beyond the tip of the nose" is? Is it down beyond the nostrils or is it beyond the center of the brows? I'm inclined to think that the tip if the nose might be between the brows. Has anyone here had any direct instruction on this?

 

It does say this in that book:

 

If you have lived in India, you may have seen men carrying large, heavy loads. When they finally set them down, they lean back, their eyes immediately roll up, and they go to sleep. In this meditative practice, relax in that way, with no grasping, but also without a loss of mindfulness. Without hope or fear, rest in the meditative posture with an unwavering gaze.

 

 

Rolling the eyes up would mean that the tip of the nose is the top of the nose...

Edited August 20, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[Anderson]

Does anyone know for sure where "four finger widths beyond the tip of the nose" is?

 

You need a teacher who can explain this to you.

Usually in the oral instructions there are a few details on top of the standard explanations which make all the difference with regards to the rising of potentiality from the heart.

All i can say is that is to do with tension ,space and distance.If you dont know these details you wont see the radiance of your rigpa in the form of potentiality or visions.

This is also related to transmission so when you apply these points you apply them in the context of transmission , you practice them in the context of your guru's mind and blessings.

There is no progress without these.

The points you are inquiring about are also explained very well in longde where one makes use of them in order to make the visions arising for the purpose of integration.

[goldisheavy]

You should understand what psychic powers are at a fundamental level first. Otherwise you'll be confused, groping in the dark.

 

Real simple-like, psychic powers are the changes of will that are no longer restrained by constraints. Or they are changes of will that are no longer restrained by ordinary constraints. The latter will be a lesser variant.

 

If you don't understand after this, forget psychic powers and just seek merit for a better rebirth, like everyone else.

 

What are the constraints? What causes the constraints to be stable? This should be immediately obvious when you fail for the first time. Any failure to produce a desired effect should instantly tell you what's wrong. It isn't rocket science. In fact, it isn't science at all and never will be.

[Tibetan_Ice]

You should understand what psychic powers are at a fundamental level first. Otherwise you'll be confused, groping in the dark.

 

Real simple-like, psychic powers are the changes of will that are no longer restrained by constraints. Or they are changes of will that are no longer restrained by ordinary constraints. The latter will be a lesser variant.

 

If you don't understand after this, forget psychic powers and just seek merit for a better rebirth, like everyone else.

 

What are the constraints? What causes the constraints to be stable? This should be immediately obvious when you fail for the first time. Any failure to produce a desired effect should instantly tell you what's wrong. It isn't rocket science. In fact, it isn't science at all and never will be.

GIH,

I have gained a few psychic powers along the way.

How about you?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

You need a teacher who can explain this to you.

Usually in the oral instructions there are a few details on top of the standard explanations which make all the difference with regards to the rising of potentiality from the heart.

All i can say is that is to do with tension ,space and distance.If you dont know these details you wont see the radiance of your rigpa in the form of potentiality or visions.

This is also related to transmission so when you apply these points you apply them in the context of transmission , you practice them in the context of your guru's mind and blessings.

There is no progress without these.

The points you are inquiring about are also explained very well in longde where one makes use of them in order to make the visions arising for the purpose of integration.

Why do I need a teacher to tell me that it is four fingers at end of the nostrils or at the brow? Further, being that there are two locations, I can try each and see what the difference is myself.

 

I thought trecko and thogal are part of the Menngagde series of instruction, where they dissolve the visions. I have dissolved hundreds of visions.

The space division is about realizing emptiness and gaining a sold foundation in that.

[goldisheavy]

GIH,

I have gained a few psychic powers along the way.

How about you?

 

 

The same.

[goldisheavy]

Why do I need a teacher to tell me that it is four fingers at end of the nostrils or at the brow? Further, being that there are two locations, I can try each and see what the difference is myself.

 

I thought trecko and thogal are part of the Menngagde series of instruction, where they dissolve the visions. I have dissolved hundreds of visions.

The space division is about realizing emptiness and gaining a sold foundation in that.

 

When you dissolve a vision, do you also dissolve the accompanying expectation and habit? If not, then the vision comes back once your concentration is no longer in effect, right?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

When you dissolve a vision, do you also dissolve the accompanying expectation and habit? If not, then the vision comes back once your concentration is no longer in effect, right?

Hmmm. There is no expectation when the visions occur at that time because the practice is just "letting be" and not grasping. It is "looking without being interested or impressed". Usually the visions dissolve into wisps of rainbows. I never see the same vision twice and I don't believe that I am generating the visions.

 

The meditation is to sit and observe the space of the mind. First you watch to see what thoughts come up. When thoughts come up you don't follow the content of each thought, you notice things like the location, the clarity or the size. Then, you remain at that location until the thought dissolves. Then you wait for another thought to appear. Sometimes the thoughts that appear are far and few in between. Other times a whole series of thoughts appear, like a huge school of fish or a spinning tornado. With distance between the subject and the objects, when the thoughts thin out, that is when the visions start to appear. The simple thoughts appear at the left back of the head. The more elaborate thoughts appear near the top middle of the head. The visions appear towards the front of the face, mostly before the brow or the eyes.

 

The whole point is to be able to watch a thought or vision appear, remain for a while and then disappear, realizing the space that this process occurs in. When you remain in the space successfully, it produces a kind of even heat around the upper body and head.

[goldisheavy]

Hmmm. There is no expectation when the visions occur at that time because the practice is just "letting be" and not grasping. It is "looking without being interested or impressed". Usually the visions dissolve into wisps of rainbows. I never see the same vision twice and I don't believe that I am generating the visions.

 

Those visions are happening only because you allow them to happen. If you close your heart to such visions, they'll stop happening.

 

The meditation is to sit and observe the space of the mind. First you watch to see what thoughts come up. When thoughts come up you don't follow the content of each thought, you notice things like the location, the clarity or the size. Then, you remain at that location until the thought dissolves. Then you wait for another thought to appear. Sometimes the thoughts that appear are far and few in between. Other times a whole series of thoughts appear, like a huge school of fish or a spinning tornado. With distance between the subject and the objects, when the thoughts thin out, that is when the visions start to appear. The simple thoughts appear at the left back of the head. The more elaborate thoughts appear near the top middle of the head. The visions appear towards the front of the face, mostly before the brow or the eyes.

 

The whole point is to be able to watch a thought or vision appear, remain for a while and then disappear, realizing the space that this process occurs in. When you remain in the space successfully, it produces a kind of even heat around the upper body and head.

 

This is a great exercise. However, you're back on Earth after you see the rainbows. That's important.

 

If you really had no expectations at all, you'd not return back to this realm. There is nothing that's keeping you here contrary to your volition.

 

Do you realize that if you really wanted to, you could sit down and simply abandon your body, permanently, and never come back? How do you think the various grandmasters know the exact day of their death and die in meditation? Do you think they're just guessing?

 

Let me ask you, have you ever had an un-Earthly vision where you intuitively felt that if you wanted to, you could stay there indefinitely? If yes, then what happened? Why are you back?

Edited August 23, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[goldisheavy]

Like what?

 

Doesn't matter. A man doesn't get rich by counting other people's gold.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Those visions are happening only because you allow them to happen. If you close your heart to such visions, they'll stop happening.

 

 

This is a great exercise. However, you're back on Earth after you see the rainbows. That's important.

 

If you really had no expectations at all, you'd not return back to this realm. There is nothing that's keeping you here contrary to your volition.

 

Do you realize that if you really wanted to, you could sit down and simply abandon your body, permanently, and never come back? How do you think the various grandmasters know the exact day of their death and die in meditation? Do you think they're just guessing?

 

Let me ask you, have you ever had an un-Earthly vision where you intuitively felt that if you wanted to, you could stay there indefinitely? If yes, then what happened? Why are you back?

You are implying that the grandmaster can pick which day to die? And that you might know how to leave and never come back? What is your technique?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Like what?

Some powers came and went, especially the ones I didn't like or had no use for. Others are very handy and quite surprising.

 

1) the ability to see, as if through a telescope, a far away distance. It is activated by the heart with love. A hole opens up between the brows and in the hole appears the scene or person you are focusing on.

 

2) third eye or eye that looks like a golden orange eye. You can see people and the scenes in the world through it. You can drive with your regular eyes closed. Most people have a dark flame emanating from their abdomens. Normal reality appears somewhat vaporous and etheric.

 

3) ability to tell when someone is scrying at you or thinking about you. I usually see their faces on the screen behind the brow. Some times I see people whom I have been thinking about appear at the foot of my bed as I am drifting off to sleep.

 

4) knowing what will happen two or three minutes before it happens. Freaked me out when I started to know what going to happen 1 hour before it happened.

 

5) having the Kati crystal channel open up and experience the liquid light first as a gush of luminescent light in slow motion, then as it filled the whole scene, the experience of silence, bliss, radiance, love and the feeling that I was everything. Has occurred 7 times now. This is not really a controllable power, but I wish it was...

 

6) having people walk by me and then all of a sudden knowing all their thoughts. Yuk.

 

7) looking at someone and knowing what action they were going to perform next.

 

8) touching someone and be able to see what they were visualizing in great detail.

 

9) the ability to float on the ground for longer distances than you'd normally expect while running. Almost like gliding an extra few yards at a time with every step. Result of kunlun bouncing the legs.

 

10) feeling great empathy for someone and have the other planes become visible, superimposed over top of normal reality as my heart opened up.

 

11) the ability to start a dream, stop it and pick it up at a later time. The ability to push myself out of the third eye and into whatever scene I could visualize. The ability to turn a vision or third eye scene into a dream and then do whatever I want in it. Eventually, it becomes really boring...

 

12) the ability to focus behind the brow and experience ecstasy at will.

 

13) the ability to call the squirrel and let him know that there are more peanuts for his stash by using love and pictures (visualization).

 

14) realizing that past lives are stored in bubbles near the navel, and they appear when you focus on your heart and your presence while relaxing the lower abdomen.

 

There are a few more but if I told you about them, I'd have to kill you after

 

So, these are the more mundane powers and nothing really mind bending. They are byproducts and didn't lead to enlightenment, but, they do indicate that reality is not quite what it seems..

 

And am I worried about losing them? You can have them all, I don't care. It is kind of like finally getting that new car and then realizing it just gets dented in parking lots like every one else's cars..

[BaguaKicksAss]

Some powers came and went, especially the ones I didn't like or had no use for. Others are very handy and quite surprising.

 

1) the ability to see, as if through a telescope, a far away distance. It is activated by the heart with love. A hole opens up between the brows and in the hole appears the scene or person you are focusing on.

 

2) third eye or eye that looks like a golden orange eye. You can see people and the scenes in the world through it. You can drive with your regular eyes closed. Most people have a dark flame emanating from their abdomens. Normal reality appears somewhat vaporous and etheric.

 

3) ability to tell when someone is scrying at you or thinking about you. I usually see their faces on the screen behind the brow. Some times I see people whom I have been thinking about appear at the foot of my bed as I am drifting off to sleep.

 

4) knowing what will happen two or three minutes before it happens. Freaked me out when I started to know what going to happen 1 hour before it happened.

 

5) having the Kati crystal channel open up and experience the liquid light first as a gush of luminescent light in slow motion, then as it filled the whole scene, the experience of silence, bliss, radiance, love and the feeling that I was everything. Has occurred 7 times now. This is not really a controllable power, but I wish it was...

 

6) having people walk by me and then all of a sudden knowing all their thoughts. Yuk.

 

7) looking at someone and knowing what action they were going to perform next.

 

8) touching someone and be able to see what they were visualizing in great detail.

 

9) the ability to float on the ground for longer distances than you'd normally expect while running. Almost like gliding an extra few yards at a time with every step. Result of kunlun bouncing the legs.

 

10) feeling great empathy for someone and have the other planes become visible, superimposed over top of normal reality as my heart opened up.

 

11) the ability to start a dream, stop it and pick it up at a later time. The ability to push myself out of the third eye and into whatever scene I could visualize. The ability to turn a vision or third eye scene into a dream and then do whatever I want in it. Eventually, it becomes really boring...

 

12) the ability to focus behind the brow and experience ecstasy at will.

 

13) the ability to call the squirrel and let him know that there are more peanuts for his stash by using love and pictures (visualization).

 

14) realizing that past lives are stored in bubbles near the navel, and they appear when you focus on your heart and your presence while relaxing the lower abdomen.

 

There are a few more but if I told you about them, I'd have to kill you after

 

So, these are the more mundane powers and nothing really mind bending. They are byproducts and didn't lead to enlightenment, but, they do indicate that reality is not quite what it seems..

 

And am I worried about losing them? You can have them all, I don't care. It is kind of like finally getting that new car and then realizing it just gets dented in parking lots like every one else's cars..

 

Had #6 once in a mall a few days before christmas with the crowds shopping *shudder*. Here I was expecting thoughts about the joy of giving lol. Not so much.

[goldisheavy]

You are implying that the grandmaster can pick which day to die? And that you might know how to leave and never come back? What is your technique?

 

Yes, that's what I am implying.

 

There is no technique. It's a question of resolve and not technique. I'm not talking about destroying or harming the human body here. I'm talking about making a conscious decision to leave the body and dying (to this realm) in meditation.

 

People who obsess over techniques will never comprehend this.

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[BaguaKicksAss]

Actually most or all of those he listed are pretty standard and common amongst practitioners. The only thing is he had his own personal way he experienced each one, and there are variations. For example the colours and places within the body he mentioned are not the same for everyone. They are pretty much just side affects (though pretty useful ones) of practice, most practices actually, done on a regular basis.

[ralis]

Some powers came and went, especially the ones I didn't like or had no use for. Others are very handy and quite surprising.

 

1) the ability to see, as if through a telescope, a far away distance. It is activated by the heart with love. A hole opens up between the brows and in the hole appears the scene or person you are focusing on.

 

2) third eye or eye that looks like a golden orange eye. You can see people and the scenes in the world through it. You can drive with your regular eyes closed. Most people have a dark flame emanating from their abdomens. Normal reality appears somewhat vaporous and etheric.

 

3) ability to tell when someone is scrying at you or thinking about you. I usually see their faces on the screen behind the brow. Some times I see people whom I have been thinking about appear at the foot of my bed as I am drifting off to sleep.

 

4) knowing what will happen two or three minutes before it happens. Freaked me out when I started to know what going to happen 1 hour before it happened.

 

5) having the Kati crystal channel open up and experience the liquid light first as a gush of luminescent light in slow motion, then as it filled the whole scene, the experience of silence, bliss, radiance, love and the feeling that I was everything. Has occurred 7 times now. This is not really a controllable power, but I wish it was...

 

6) having people walk by me and then all of a sudden knowing all their thoughts. Yuk.

 

7) looking at someone and knowing what action they were going to perform next.

 

8) touching someone and be able to see what they were visualizing in great detail.

 

9) the ability to float on the ground for longer distances than you'd normally expect while running. Almost like gliding an extra few yards at a time with every step. Result of kunlun bouncing the legs.

 

10) feeling great empathy for someone and have the other planes become visible, superimposed over top of normal reality as my heart opened up.

 

11) the ability to start a dream, stop it and pick it up at a later time. The ability to push myself out of the third eye and into whatever scene I could visualize. The ability to turn a vision or third eye scene into a dream and then do whatever I want in it. Eventually, it becomes really boring...

 

12) the ability to focus behind the brow and experience ecstasy at will.

 

13) the ability to call the squirrel and let him know that there are more peanuts for his stash by using love and pictures (visualization).

 

14) realizing that past lives are stored in bubbles near the navel, and they appear when you focus on your heart and your presence while relaxing the lower abdomen.

 

There are a few more but if I told you about them, I'd have to kill you after

 

So, these are the more mundane powers and nothing really mind bending. They are byproducts and didn't lead to enlightenment, but, they do indicate that reality is not quite what it seems..

 

And am I worried about losing them? You can have them all, I don't care. It is kind of like finally getting that new car and then realizing it just gets dented in parking lots like every one else's cars..

 

Is this from Kriya Yoga practice?

[BaguaKicksAss]

I feel that such things are from any focused practice which involves a lot of meditation. I say focused because just random I love the energy blissed out meditation doesn't really work for accurate perceptions from all I've seen.

 

Now getting past one's own ego and perceptions and own aura, to make sure you are getting unbiased accurate info instead of your own stuff, or thoughts, well that takes practice and training. Preferably with the help of a skilled and experienced teacher to let one know if/when the student has their head up their behind. A LOT of people *think* they are perceiving these things, but are not accurate at all, or only half the time and etc.

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[BaguaKicksAss]

99.999% of all these practitioners are deluded spiritual roleplayers whose "abilities" suddenly fail under lab conditions and during scientific testing.

 

I'm not going to argue that one. I'd say 95% though lol; and I'd call them more folks with good intentions, but no talent or proper teaching .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Delusion.

 

Lack of proper training and guidance imo. Also such things take decades to have most of those sorts of things happen. Well or sometimes people born with it... and half of those wish they could just have it go away.