Proving Breathless State to Medical Community

[Satya]

I haven't read the previous posts, so, apologies if this has been mentioned, but I just saw the topic and thought I'd chime in.

During yoga teacher training we had a medical doctor come in and explain a theory (his theory maybe?) of how the breathless state is, based on our physical and biological laws, possible.

The example he gave was that if you have a small room (I think representing our lungs) connected to a larger room (I think representing the outside world) by a small hall (trachea/wind pipe) and some oxygen was removed from the smaller room, then the levels of oxygen would slowly equal out between the two areas, due to some principle that I can't remember the name of, maybe something to do with air pressure equalling out. Similarly, according to him, in the breathless state it's all about lowering metabolism more and more and more (through slowing the breath, yogic posture, calming the body/mind) to a point where the body utilises very little oxygen. So little that sufficient oxygen is brought into the lungs simply from air pressure/equalisation or something (resulting in small amounts of oxygen coming into the lungs).

I do not subscribe exclusively to what science can currently explain, if not just for the reason that new discoveries are always being made, but also there has been plenty of verification of phenomena throughout the decades/centuries that the current scientific models could not account for. However, if a physical realm/physical law/scientific explanation CAN be given for something then I always find that interesting, and it's easier to talk about with others, and assimilate into the physical realm/law part of my brain . I think there could be metaphysical/higher dimensional/unseen energetic/phenomena at play in a lot of these phenomena, including the breathless state, I just think that this is also a good explanation.

[Satya]

In some ways they are...when they abandon the scientific method in favor of what sounds comfortably "scientific". But in many ways they are not, and it would be great for them to be aware of things such as the breathless state, and to figure out how it works.

Just read this ^ . As you can see, there's at least one theory in my above post

[thelerner]

There was Ram Bahadur Bomjon, aka "the Buddha boy" - I think the discovery channel made a documentary about him. Even his amazing feats of meditation did not rouse that much interest from the scientific community or the wider population in the West. A curiosity, a 10 minute slot on the evening news. Esoteric by definition "likely to be understood by a small number of people".

Buddha boy was an interesting case. A young kid, undoubtedly highly spiritual, able to demonstrate breatharian abilities and long sitting is 'outed'. Gets attention, becomes a 'show' for the West, a spiritual superstar for the East, yet with the attention comes stresses. One of the last stories was Buddha teenager attacking some neighborhood kids who were making fun of him. We all have our buttons.

 

Being a superstar is undoubtedly corrosive. Same with John Chang, or any would be messiah, you show off a 'power' and suddenly its not about spirituality, the art, its all show me magic. Spectacle overwhelms the hard work and spirituality of the art.

 

I guess you avoid it, by keeping your mouth shut, siddhis hidden and eyes open for worthy students and companions.

Edited August 25, 2014 by thelerner

[Songtsan]

I haven't read the whole thread (as usual), but I have heard of plenty of studies where yogic abilities were medically verified, usually in places like China or India. I suggest looking into the scientific journal articles from these places.

 

What I remember is extended bigu states being researched - people being buried for months to years and coming out alive - stuff like that.

 

It's out there - its been done...just not so much in western science

[Spotless]

I could not agree more with Thelerner's post.

 

And here is an excerpt from SecretGrotto's recent post:

 

"Yes, a couple of Indian yogis have been buried alive for years, but what the world needs is recent proof performed in a best medical setting such as an academic USA hospital, with a lot of publicity. Otherwise if one refers to proof that is +50 years old very few people will take it seriously."

 

We have an entire nation (USA) eating chunks of processed sugar everyday, adults drinking caramel coffee with whipped cream.

Yet we do not have one study that does not show this is devastating to our health. Doctors cite this to their patients all day long but does it convince them to change their habits? It's on the news everywhere - we even feed our kids cereal which should be classified as a candy.

 

And science is about replication of results.

 

We can replicate the Phantom Leaf Phenomenon - it has been done many times.

 

These studies do indeed hurt the reputation of scientists.

 

Also - take a look at Houdini.

He promised that if there was any truth to the existence of the afterlife he would do everything in his power to get a message back to earth.

Today Atheists celebrate Houdini and the "fact" that he never "came back with proof" - yet his wife attests that the medium who if I remember correctly was Arthur Ford came to her and told her the password that Houdini and his wife had secretly agreed upon which would be poof of an afterlife in the event of his death. The Atheists will not accept her word /proof and she went to her deathbed standing behind what she attested to.

 

Take a look at Edgar Cayce in the beautiful book "There is a river" - the doctors that got a hold of him once for medical observance took some of his fingernails off (without his permission) and when he awoke it was the last straw for him - he never would in any way cooperate with that mentally handicapped bunch again.

 

Cayce did work with several doctors who used him occasionally when they could no longer help a dying patient. In one case a baby was dying - already turning blue. Cayce prescribed a lethal dose of belladonna ( lethal for an adult) but Cayce had been correct so many times and the doctor knew he had no solution and something had to be done immediately so he gave the child what Cayce had prescribed and the baby promptly recovered.

 

People are addicted to their sleep, in love with their opinions and are highly roboticised. Even if you can flip a sceptic slightly and make them do a double take - what is it really worth? It is the wrong approach.

 

Be the example of its merit. Offer free introduction if you are a teacher. Give a lecture on the Friday before a retreat weekend.

 

Many people are dedicated to the path of Catastrophic Shock - needing the death of a child or sudden loss of "everything they have" in a stock market swing to bring them around.

 

Huge numbers need nothing - they are content with their superstitions and fears and pacified by exposure to church and what that offers them - and their is nothing wrong with this - it is where they are in their path and the expose in church for the most part however misleading or incorrect, it has a higher vibration that feeds a part of them that will eventually sprout wings.

 

The world is moving to the world of spirit very fast in the present - Hugh numbers of people need no proof - they have all the proof they need and the wave of this is unrelenting. Perhaps our physical species will die out in war - yet not one soul will perish and the planet will be just fine.

 

In my Qi Gong class on Wednesday we have 4 MDs in a class of 12.

The number of doctors that are vegetarian or vegan is higher than the norm for nearly all other professions.

One of the largest and most popular sections of book stores is now "metaphysical".

Sport Yoga is taught on every street corner - even in churches - and some of it is actual Yoga!

 

If you care to listen to over 200 westerners that have Awakened you can listen to them being interviewed at Batgap.com

None of them appears to be walking on water or breathless - but if you listen to 40 or 50 of them something begins to emerge in you - we have been looking at this all wrong - from the top down.

We need to know the path from the ground up. When Rama Krishna first awoke he went about hugging trees and crying constantly - we need to understand what the first minutes, days and months are like - walking on water can come later.

 

Someone motivated by their own reality and the overwhelming influences abounding in our universe is the better student and in reality the only real student.

Jesus was certainly never a good example for us humans to aspire to - he was not us - he was born not of us - his story was outside of us, his example was not the example of a simple human being. And the "teachings" from the mythology of his existence give us little to work with. I am wondering just how inspiring a non- breathing human will be?

 

I do know that my first 30 minutes meditating were incredible.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Spotless

[Songtsan]

Conspiracy theorists would say that the scientific community does not care - that they are there to make money and support the big pharma - that is why CAM therapy does not get the attention it deserves.

 

Conspiracy theorists are right in my book.

[Spotless]

CAM (Complimentary and Alternative Medicine) has taken off pretty well in all Western countries with socialized medicine so we may be moving in the right direction soon.

At this point however American Medicine is pretty much working from a Monsanto model.

[Satya]

Conspiracy theorists would say that the scientific community does not care - that they are there to make money and support the big pharma - that is why CAM therapy does not get the attention it deserves.

 

Conspiracy theorists are right in my book.

I wouldn't say the scientific community. As part of that community I can attest that there are many, a majority, who are not only open to new findings, but they care, that's why they do what they do.

 

Physicists by and large seem to be the best of the bunch, simply as a consequence of their education. Physics is so incredibly bonkers and there are new findings all the time that no self respecting physicist would ever denounce the possibility of a phenomena unless it had been explicitly and repeatedly disproven, if not just for the self evident fact that new findings appear all the time, then for the simple issue of not wanting to go down in history as WRONG (haha); if they denounce something that hasn't been explicitly disproven then there's the possibility that that phenomena could be proven to exist, and then they go down in the history books looking like an idiot.

 

I'd say that, as with most issues, it's due to the mentally ill/pathologically controlling (but as of yet not widely recognised to be problematically so) individuals who have opted for the managerial and censoring (controlling) roles (because anyone passionate about their work generally wants to do that work, and not manage others doing that work; those who crave to control are the only ones [often in in my personal experience] who opt for managing roles).

 

The scientific community is generally pretty open, but those who give the green light for publication, approval, dissemination etc, I think that's where stuff gets filtered out.

 

Also, as both you and spotless have said, there's actually already a lot of stuff out there, but people don't care. They're so pre-occupied with their interpersonal bullshit that they'll only look into parapsychology, alternative health, etc, when faced with death/dying, extreme circumstance.

[SecretGrotto]

Someone motivated by their own reality and the overwhelming influences abounding in our universe is the better student and in reality the only real student.

Jesus was certainly never a good example for us humans to aspire to - he was not us - he was born not of us - his story was outside of us, his example was not the example of a simple human being. And the "teachings" from the mythology of his existence give us little to work with. I am wondering just how inspiring a non- breathing human will be?

 

Thx Spotless, really inspiring and well written post. Food for thought.

[Satya]

CAM (Complimentary and Alternative Medicine) has taken off pretty well in all Western countries with socialized medicine so we may be moving in the right direction soon. At this point however American Medicine is pretty much working from a Monsanto model.

It's getting there. As said above, by and large people are open and people care. Doctors aren't stupid, they may be paradigmatically conditioned, but they're not stupid.

 

They just want to use what works. The only reason that CAM isn't used more is because of (comparative) lack of funds compared to drug companies.

 

Also, another issue is that people are lazy. People want a quick fix. Even if 1000 doctors come out and say:

 

"You can avoid pretty much all chronic and acute problems with diet, meditation and exercise."

 

Then people would rather continue on with sensory pleasure (bad food and sedentary lifestyle watching tv) and then have heart bypass surgery, or medication, than exercise all their lives.

 

There are so many MDs and psychiatrists who are supporting meditation, yoga, qigong, exercise, therapy for mental health, but generally all of these require effort on behalf of the individual, so people tend to avoid them.

 

It's only when people realise that you can only mask over issues (mental AND physical) with medications and never resolve them that they start looking into lifestyle change (exercise, meditation, etc).

[Satya]

Also, worth adding, another problem with CAM is that a lot of the research isn't stringent enough. There are certain protocols for randomised controlled trials (the gold standard), for example the CONSORT guidelines. Often many procedures aren't done/adhered to properly in a lot of CAM research. There's no double blinding, no appropriate control group, improper/no randomisation procedure, etc. If CAM research wants better recognition then it needs to arguably, not just be equal to mainstream research, but surpass it, so as to avoid criticism. THOUGH, as shown below, I think in some instances it is also just judged too hard, sometimes even improperly.

THOUGH, ALSO, I know of at least ONE instance where the statistics/psychometrics and all of the necessary protocols were adhered to properly but some guys from cochrane collaboration came along for a review and improperly/incorrectly denounced some findings from a study on yogic methods for an anxiety disorder, saying that one of the stats approaches was wrong, when in fact it was not.

This is an instance which is dodgy, and could be due to censorship, though, it could also just be due to genuine stupidity/ignorance/negligence.

[Songtsan]

I wouldn't say the scientific community. As part of that community I can attest that there are many, a majority, who are not only open to new findings, but they care, that's why they do what they do.

 

Physicists by and large seem to be the best of the bunch, simply as a consequence of their education. Physics is so incredibly bonkers and there are new findings all the time that no self respecting physicist would ever denounce the possibility of a phenomena unless it had been explicitly and repeatedly disproven, if not just for the self evident fact that new findings appear all the time, then for the simple issue of not wanting to go down in history as WRONG (haha); if they denounce something that hasn't been explicitly disproven then there's the possibility that that phenomena could be proven to exist, and then they go down in the history books looking like an idiot.

 

I'd say that, as with most issues, it's due to the mentally ill/pathologically controlling (but as of yet not widely recognised to be problematically so) individuals who have opted for the managerial and censoring (controlling) roles (because anyone passionate about their work generally wants to do that work, and not manage others doing that work; those who crave to control are the only ones [often in in my personal experience] who opt for managing roles).

 

The scientific community is generally pretty open, but those who give the green light for publication, approval, dissemination etc, I think that's where stuff gets filtered out.

 

Also, as both you and spotless have said, there's actually already a lot of stuff out there, but people don't care. They're so pre-occupied with their interpersonal bullshit that they'll only look into parapsychology, alternative health, etc, when faced with death/dying, extreme circumstance.

 

I agree - I was in a negative mind state...ridiculous...I am having Illuminati paranoias lately....

[Spotless]

My background is science and my father owned 3 pharmaceutical companies and a number of my friends are doctors and also scientists at Lawrence Livermore Lab - perhaps one of the funest places to work on earth.

 

It is typically the education that is the problem - not so much the content but the damage it does to any form of intuition and spontaneity.

The interference of the analyzer is enormous and invariably the viewpoint is in the opposite direction of stillness. For doctors and others with degrees that are highly prized badges of achievement it is a near death-nil for deep endeavor - the chatter is simply overwhelming - not necessarily in volume but in its charm. Spontaneity and intuition are pummeled to the back and the subtle fear of even the patina of loose overview and playing with methodology is a skin crawling not happening non-event.

 

If you can get them on board it is of little or no value - except perhaps to them personally. I love science - and if anything Sci-fi comes to the screen or otherwise I am the first to see it. Batgap.com has a whole group of scientist interviewed working on "new discoveries" and it is indeed exciting "for someone".

 

What is rare is to find a scientist or doctor who does not believe they are very open to all sorts of new ideas - but history has never bore this to be true - the resistance to new ideas has always been incredible. If it is crude and clearly a new paradigm that is different some of the time but for the most part much of what is new is brought to the table decades after it was discovered.

 

The romanticism of the scientific mind is a romance and a myth for the most part - the clarity is very attractive and the comprehensive knowledge is often breathtaking - but with regard to looking for what we are talking about here they are the best equipped and among the least able.

 

(Please understand - science and scientists are no enemy of mine - I am only speaking from observations that I have witnessed regarding this subject. Observations and lots of stats - I used to be a stat wizard.

I also looked for every proof I could get my hands on at one time and I own a real kirilian photography plate and other apparatus.)

Edited August 26, 2014 by Spotless

[Songtsan]

I know that many western doctors are brainwashed into 'tracks' of belief which support commercial/domination enterprises. It is a simple fact that there are entrenched interests behind powerful groups such as the AMA, ADA, FDA, and so forth. The desire is for hegemony, pure and simple. However, it is a long ways away and the fight of truth will always prevail, because those who seek control through perpetrating ignorance and misinformation cannot stand the might and power of mankind's inherent search for truth.

 

With all of the media's attempts to sway opinion and belief, it is clear that a significant proportion of Americans see through the bullshit and take what comes in now with extreme distrust.

 

The attempts of the 'idiot cabals' of wannabe dominators like the Illuminati are only acting as catalysts for evolution, for nature finds a way around any obstacle. They are simply breeding a race of superior intelligentsia who will easily see through their feeble attempts to play smoke and mirror games.

 

One World Order is a farce, and while it may appear to work in a limited time sphere, in the end will fall like a house of cards.

[joeblast]

Buddha boy was an interesting case.

One of the last stories was Buddha teenager attacking some neighborhood kids who were making fun of him.

what I recall of that was that the kids were purposefully trying to bother him and interrupt his meditation, and they all received a bitch slapping.

 

deservedly so, imho.

 

so much focus on breath...hehe...what about the internal mechanizations...what function does oxygen serve....what's up with the path of ions...what's up with qi

[BaguaKicksAss]

Ah here is the thread that I wanted to past this into. Why oh why are so many things closed door and secret? Many reasons, but here is one, that I just posted in another (very interesting) thread: ("this" referring to going very unbalanced, insane or etc. from practice; we were discussing why some people manage to avoid this pitfall).

 

 

There are obviously not quite made it to the asylum levels of this that lead to strength . I think I also mentioned the needing to recoop after a year or two, then strength... but... just from what I have seen so far... I haven't seen any cases of just went that far off for a year or two and fully recovered . There was always something not quite right afterwards that tended to lead to not being able to function in some major way, from all the cases I've seen. (I've been hanging around with far to many practitioners for far to many years, and seen a lot). But I'm sure it's possible. Now the nearly made it there sure; that is extremely common I think. By asylum I mean not able to care for oneself for a time longer than a couple of weeks due to emotional or mental troubles and having to be helped before one hurts themselves due to behaviors or not being functional enough or whatever. I have seen this far to many times to be comfortable with, amongst dabbles .

[Spotless]

In current scientific discussion most of the work is in head scans of various sorts. This is among the little that science can look at and it is very interesting. But if you look at the conversation, the topic of looking at somehow the measure of the supernatural abilities outside of the "brain of the awakened" like Clairaudience, clairvoyance, Clairsentience, telepathy, telekinesis and others, you find next to zero enthusiasm for the investigation and it becomes obvious that the distain for this topic is such that it is written off as of no real importance - it is dusted over and nearly laughed at as implausible to study and only quite a secondary (if even that ) byproduct.

 

This is true in the sense that on the path as a seeker these are by products, but in arrival and also prior, it is expected on the whole that these abilities will come to one. And the growth afforded by them is not nearly so much in the having of the abilities, but in the lessons they bring to bear on us.

 

When indeed you begin to receive the so called secret teachings (and they are indeed secret) it is only because learning them prior would make no sense. And many of these teachings can be had in the higher realms without the need of finding them in this realm.

In most cases these "teachings" have no words.

 

The envisioned synthesis of science and teaching becoming the lead as we move forward is hampered by the above abyss.

We will be moving forward by what is happening right now - increasing numbers of awakenings and a move toward direction by higher spirit. In fact the greater fear may be had in the consistent stupidity of science to qualify and quantify and then believe in those measurements in relation to this to the point of "official assessment " of the awakened state and creating barriers to the much higher levels of attainment in relation to the mastery of the elements and much more.

 

The idea in this regard that science will somehow provide the answers is childish at best. The relative plane is its existence and while playing toward the higher levels is interesting, at least for now it is well in the dark ages. Science may inspire us along these lines, but invariably it will regard its "discoveries" as it's own, like a pharmaceutical company "discovering" the potent aspect of a plant and patenting that aspect of the plant.

 

It will not be long that we will be moving past science so radically that a new somewhat similar wellspring will come forward but it will have an unleashing with a far greater impact. Though this is more on the level of the next 2-300 years if we are still around physically. Our current science may end all of that.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Spotless

[Songtsan]

Ah here is the thread that I wanted to past this into. Why oh why are so many things closed door and secret? Many reasons, but here is one, that I just posted in another (very interesting) thread: ("this" referring to going very unbalanced, insane or etc. from practice; we were discussing why some people manage to avoid this pitfall).

 

I intend to disprove this formula/belief, for I have indeed entered insanity, and found it rife with wisdom. I am climbing out, but I keep what I have learned in my back pocket.

 

Insanity coupled with disciplined adherence to structure = well, something very very interesting...brand new formulas come out of this.

 

By entering the realms of Chaos and successfully coming back, you bring with you the Chaos energy that has been Shaped!

 

Shaped Chaos is holding fire in the ball of your hand and not being burned.

[Songtsan]

In current scientific discussion most of the work is in head scans of various sorts. This is among the little that science can look at and it is very interesting. But if you look at the conversation, the topic of looking at somehow the measure of the supernatural abilities outside of the "brain of the awakened" like Clairaudience, clairvoyance, Clairsentience, telepathy, telekinesis and others, you find next to zero enthusiasm for the investigation and it becomes obvious that the distain for this topic is such that it is written off as of no real importance - it is dusted over and nearly laughed at as implausible to study and only quite a secondary (if even that ) byproduct.

 

This is true in the sense that on the path as a seeker these are by products, but in arrival and also prior, it is expected on the whole that these abilities will come to one. And the growth afforded by them is not nearly so much in the having of the abilities, but in the lessons they bring to bear on us.

 

When indeed you begin to receive the so called secret teachings (and they are indeed secret) it is only because learning them prior would make no sense. And many of these teachings can be had in the higher realms without the need of finding them in this realm.

In most cases these "teachings" have no words.

 

The envisioned synthesis of science and teaching becoming the lead as we move forward is hampered by the above abyss.

We will be moving forward by what is happening right now - increasing numbers of awakenings and a move toward direction by higher spirit. In fact the greater fear may be had in the consistent stupidity of science to qualify and quantify and then believe in those measurements in relation to this to the point of "official assessment " of the awakened state and creating barriers to the much higher levels of attainment in relation to the mastery of the elements and much more.

 

The idea in this regard that science will somehow provide the answers is childish at best. The relative plane is its existence and while playing toward the higher levels is interesting, at least for now it is well in the dark ages. Science may inspire us along these lines, but invariably it will regard its "discoveries" as it's own, like a pharmaceutical company "discovering" the potent aspect of a plant and patenting that aspect of the plant.

 

It will not be long that we will be moving past science so radically that a new somewhat similar wellspring will come forward but it will have an unleashing with a far greater impact. Though this is more on the level of the next 2-300 years if we are still around physically. Our current science may end all of that.

 

What you and others are stating is that there is not enough study of the paranormal, etc. I agree, yet disagree - if you think this, then you should support those that do study it....

 

Start with the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology

 

go on from there - there are many organizations in this world who do study this stuff....if you want them to grow, then feed them your cash. It's simple.

 

We as a people, determine what gets done, with our buying power.

 

Start a non-for-profit corporation if you think you can gather enough interested people. I intend to do this one day when I am financially successful.

 

Also, participate in research yourself....if you dig deep, you will find that there are, at this very moment, thousands of studies seeking participants in research into out-of-the-box subjects.

 

Sitting here and decrying the lack of studies does not much.

 

Getting into the studies yourself is important.

 

If you feel a passion, don't complain that others aren't passionate, just follow your passion.

 

EDIT:

 

As far as secret systems, I myself do not support the miserly hoarding of knowledge with the disdainful judgments that people aren't ready for it yet. I think it's time to shake the barrel...we need a little chaos in this world - open the bucket. We are entering an age of hyper conformity and globalization...let's counteract that by releasing empowering information to the masses, so that people can fight back the external pressure of hegemony and external control - by giving people access to the techniques of internal control.

 

Down with the mystery schools and twilight languages!

Edited August 26, 2014 by Songtsan

[Satya]

As far as secret systems, I myself do not support the miserly hoarding of knowledge with the disdainful judgments that people aren't ready for it yet. I think it's time to shake the barrel...we need a little chaos in this world - open the bucket. We are entering an age of hyper conformity and globalization...let's counteract that by releasing empowering information to the masses, so that people can fight back the external pressure of hegemony and external control - by giving people access to the techniques of internal control.

 

Down with the mystery schools and twilight languages!

Personally, I agree.

 

I think that there were once many good reasons for secrecy, inquisitions, stigma, etc, but now I think that time is over. In most of the world we're allowed to practice what we want, we don't have to fear drowning/hanging/burning because of it.

 

I am aware that there are SOME instances of people pushing hard and getting issues, but I don't think that free/open information causes this exactly. Furthermore, more openness and less secrecy could lead to research that would help analyse such issues to prevent them from happening, providing concise, to the point guidance, with no superfluous information.

 

Information can and should be put out there, all information, in my opinion, but information regarding practices that are believed to be potentially dangerous should be disseminated with overt, explicit warnings, along the lines of "many faux practices spout warnings as a ploy to draw people in, to make people think that they're powerful when they're not, however, THESE practices really are dangerous if not preceded with X amount of months of Y." etc.

I don't think secrecy is ever a good thing, and that it creates dark spaces/shadows in which corruption, inaccuracies and out right lies can form.

Additionally, secrecy causes confusion between practices, opposing sects/religions, leading to feuds and in some cases war.

 

Open information allows for integration, analysis, proper dissemination, highlighting of similarities between systems, and more.

 

When it comes to intellectual property, it gets complicated, but I think the spirit of open information when and where possible is by and large a good thing, and the spirit of secrecy is by and large a bad thing, and is in my view in stark contrast to the whole point of spiritual work, of which the goals are freedom, Truth, love, non-division, oneness etc.

 

A lot of my thoughts on this here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34241-open-source-kriya/

Edited August 26, 2014 by Satya

[Spotless]

What you and others are stating is that there is not enough study of the paranormal, etc. I agree, yet disagree - if you think this, then you should support those that do study it....

 

Start with the Journal of Transpersonal Psychology

 

go on from there - there are many organizations in this world who do study this stuff....if you want them to grow, then feed them your cash. It's simple.

 

We as a people, determine what gets done, with our buying power.

 

Start a non-for-profit corporation if you think you can gather enough interested people. I intend to do this one day when I am financially successful.

 

Also, participate in research yourself....if you dig deep, you will find that there are, at this very moment, thousands of studies seeking participants in research into out-of-the-box subjects.

 

Sitting here and decrying the lack of studies does not much.

 

Getting into the studies yourself is important.

 

If you feel a passion, don't complain that others aren't passionate, just follow your passion.

 

EDIT:

 

As far as secret systems, I myself do not support the miserly hoarding of knowledge with the disdainful judgments that people aren't ready for it yet. I think it's time to shake the barrel...we need a little chaos in this world - open the bucket. We are entering an age of hyper conformity and globalization...let's counteract that by releasing empowering information to the masses, so that people can fight back the external pressure of hegemony and external control - by giving people access to the techniques of internal control.

 

Down with the mystery schools and twilight languages!

 

It does not appear that you read my post.

[Spotless]

Satya says:

 

 

"Information can and should be put out there, all information, in my opinion, but information regarding practices that are believed to be potentially dangerous should be disseminated with overt, explicit warnings, along the lines of "many faux practices spout warnings as a ploy to draw people in, to make people think that they're powerful when they're not, however, THESE practices really are dangerous if not preceded with X amount of months of Y." etc. "

 

The idea that their should not be secret teaching that is reserved for certain levels is utterly naive.

 

It assumes and inhabits a very small view of just what can be made available.

 

In general I would agree regarding openness and with respect to most of this sort of teaching it is coming to light and is no longer secret, it is more that it has not been translated or disseminated.

 

It may be that you believe the stories of Milrepa are false or that the magicians here are all complete fools (meaning that none of them are smart enough to do something foolish) perhaps you think the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was written by an idiot.

 

The amount of material out there not included in the secrets is more than enough to become enlightened.

 

You may also wish to reread your quote again:

The Catholic Church pretty well illustrates how absolutely wrong the idea is of putting explicit instruction out on the dangers of something like these secrets. The Catholic Church manufactures the most perverted twisted sexual outlook of any Large religion in the world - it has extolled the horrors of sex to the point that everyone in the church is mesmerized by it.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Spotless

[Satya]

The idea that their should not be secret teaching that is reserved for certain levels is utterly naive.

 

Spotless, with love, no malice, but to me stating that someone's statement is "utterly naive" borders on insult. Would you agree? Ego is the only thing that can be insulted, so this is obviously ego speaking, but I do find this a tad insulting, and unnecessary. (Something applicable here that I should work on, but still: 2. Don't Take Anything Personally

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering. ~ Don Miguel Ruiz)

 

Additionally, I never actually said that "their there should not be secret teaching that is reserved for certain levels".

 

I was stating that by and large I think that secrecy is a bad thing:

I think the spirit of open information when and where possible is by and large a good thing, and the spirit of secrecy is by and large a bad thing, and is in my view in stark contrast to the whole point of spiritual work, of which the goals are freedom, Truth, love, non-division, oneness etc.

 

And you sort of agree that a lot is already out there:

In general I would agree regarding openness and with respect to most of this sort of teaching it is coming to light and is no longer secret, it is more that it has not been translated or disseminated.

 

The amount of material out there not included in the secrets is more than enough to become enlightened.

Yes, of course, I agree; there's plenty out there. Just going by Non-Dual Self inquiry traditions there's enough, and none of that's secret. However if you're approaching it from another position then the secrets and gaps in between information muddies up the viewpoint to a certain extent for some approaches. If you're approaching it from an energetic approach then the secrecy can lead to problems, disparities, and create a situation where due to the secrecy between different traditions, disparities arise, underlying similarities are missed and people can end up not knowing where to go, what's legitimate.

 

If information is open then you can verify a practice/school by going on information of what are agreed upon to be the proper approaches.

It may be that you believe the stories of Milrepa are false or that the magicians here are all complete fools (meaning that none of them are smart enough to do something foolish) perhaps you think the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" was written by an idiot.

I personally wasn't talking about the magic side of things, so in THIS particular area I cannot comment, because I have not explored it, and have not professed to. But still, in that case, and in all cases, there's already so much out there now that having little bits/gaps of secrecy seems to be a potential source of problems, you know? It's like having a driving manual being released, having loads of driving manuals released, but loads of them missing important information like how to slam on the brakes (and it was John Dalberg-Acton who said it, and I don't think he was an idiot, it's a brilliant quote ; I used it in a piece of writing I was doing the other month).

 

I am primarily referring to spiritual practices re: secrecy (which I think was inferred, but I didn't state so, so fair enough). Energy work and meditation. I cannot comment on magic, but, I think the point remains:

I think the spirit of open information when and where possible is by and large a good thing, and the spirit of secrecy is by and large a bad thing, and is in my view in stark contrast to the whole point of spiritual work, of which the goals are freedom, Truth, love, non-division, oneness etc.

[Satya]

You may also wish to reread your quote again:

The Catholic Church pretty well illustrates how absolutely wrong the idea is of putting explicit instruction out on the dangers of something like these secrets. The Catholic Church manufactures the most perverted twisted sexual outlook of any Large religion in the world - it has extolled the horrors of sex to the point that everyone in the church is mesmerized by it.

Also, I don't know where this is from, I don't think I wrote it, and I don't know what you're referring to by it.

[garudha]

The Phantom Leaf Phenomenon has been replicated many times.

 

Contrarily, I read that Kirlian Photography is not actually recording any other-dimensional aura.

 

 

@ http://www.lightstalking.com/what-is-kirlian-photography-the-science-and-the-myth-revealed

So if the glowing auras seen in Kirlian photography aren’t really caused by something spiritual, paranormal or our “life-energy” then what are they caused by?

 

The answer is water.

 

The high-voltage frequency applied to the metal plate rips the electrons off of atoms. The air around the photographed object becomes ionized. If that air contains any water, the resulting image will show the glowing silhouette around the object, which scientists actually call a “corona plasma discharge”.