Proving Breathless State to Medical Community

[SecretGrotto]

Is there an unspoken rule that prevents masters from proving abilities and sharing mystic experiences with lay people?

 

Although a high-level ability, I strongly feel that we need to at least prove the breathless state openly with medical certainty and scrutiny, so that mainstream science and media can start having serious discussions about the very real nature of yogic attainments and its implication on practical spirituality.

 

I'm tired of standing empty-handed when a lay person asks for mainstream proof of the breathless state, even though I am absolutely convinced of it through the various occult sources discussing it like the Autobiography of a Yogi, Opening the Dragon Gate, and multiple practitioner accounts I ran into time and again.

 

Yogananda: "The acid test of a master is the breathless state."

 

 

I would volunteer to be scrutinized medically for attaining the breathless state, but sadly I'm but a beginner. Yet, why has no one else come forward to do this very basic but profound proof, as has Prahlad Yani who does not consume food and proved it in India.

 

How can we expect the general populace to take our extraordinary claims of mystic practices serious, if we cannot make even one basic well-chosen medical proof of breathlessness (attained through yogic practice alone)?

 

Perhaps, one day, if one were to attain this state with regularity and full control, one would be silenced by an unspoken rule or inner command? That certainly could explain the lack of such persons coming forward.

 

Yet, is it spiritually or karmically irresponsible to render this proof in a selfless manner? Are we not to take responsible dominion over our plane of existence in acts of selfless service that works toward uplifting the spirit of humanity?

 

We should not say, "The masses must wallow in their ignorance and spiritual blindness until they see the proof through their own self effort." Is that what Jesus did, or did he render ample proof of his divinity and do everything in his power to spiritually uplift humanity?

 

Jesus: "What I have done, ye shall do and greater things shall ye do." "Does it not say in your scriptures that ye are gods?"

 

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Perhaps we should start rendering simple evidence, not for glory or ego, but as acts of maturing, responsible and powerful dominion over our world.

Edited August 24, 2014 by SecretGrotto

[BaguaKicksAss]

Is there an unspoken rule that prevents masters from proving abilities and sharing mystic experiences with lay people?

 

Yes, most definitely.

 

Although a high-level ability, I strongly feel that we need to at least prove the breathless state openly with medical certainty and scrutiny, so that mainstream science and media can start having serious discussions about the very real nature of yogic attainments and its implication on practical spirituality.

 

I'm tired of standing empty-handed when a lay person asks for mainstream proof of the breathless state, even though I am absolutely convinced of it through the various occult sources discussing it like the Autobiography of a Yogi, Opening the Dragon Gate, and multiple practitioner accounts I ran into time and again.

 

Yogananda: "The acid test of a master is the breathless state."

 

 

I would volunteer to be scrutinized medically for attaining the breathless state, but sadly I'm but a beginner. Yet, why has no one else come forward to do this very basic but profound proof, as has Prahlad Yani who does not consume food and proved it in India.

 

How can we expect the general populace to take our extraordinary claims of mystic practices serious, if we cannot make even one basic well-chosen medical proof of breathlessness (attained through yogic practice alone)?

 

The high level practices are not for everyone, or the general public generally. Due to dangers to people, sacred teachings not respected and a myriad of other reasons. Most I have talked to have the view of that they have no desire for the general public to know and see no reason to have it proven to them. They tend to feel that those meant to receive the teachings will find them, or the teachings/teacher will find the student.

 

I know this isn't popular, but I have seen it time and time again with many paths.

 

Since we aren't trying to convert people, why would we need to prove it?

 

Though I really wish the damn medical community would accept some things which don't come in pill form *grumble*.

[thelerner]

Get back 50 years and yoga was an exotic thing and yogi's were reknown for sealing themselves into coffins and being buried underground. I'm sure you can google stories about it and it certainly must take a high level of breathless state. I'm pretty sure its been documented by doctors/science. More a human hibernation then totally non-breathing state.

 

Yet its an 'act' that was taken over by magicians. Such show takes focus from yoga's spiritual aim. It invites charlatans. People died doing it, often when the top of the wooden casket gives way.

 

For those in the know who see masters carrying out a 3, 4 or more minute breath cycle. Its awesome. Quite an attainment in mind/body control.

 

There are stories of Taoist who sit in caves unmoving for years, having a disciple watch over there body, hard to find proof of this. Thats separate from the Taoist hermits who live as near breatharians in caves. Which is documented.

Edited August 24, 2014 by thelerner

[Chang]

When considering attempting to prove matters esoteric to the general public at large we should remember:-

 

"Having eyes they see not, and ears, they hear not, and neither do they understand"

[Felcor]

With my experience the people with the knowledge either don't want to show/share or they don't care for either side of the argument.

The people who seek the knowledge always feel it needs to be shown shared. I think its one of those things where its hard to take a step back and evaluate from both sides.

 

I personally feel its a bit primitive to not share/show. Kind of how back in the day reading was only for the privileged. This only leads to GREAT things becoming lost and it stifles growth.

 

I get the "this is dangerous, we must guard it like nuclear launch codes" view, but I think its kind of a flimsy excuse and the good out weighs the bad.

 

That being said this is just my opinion, maybe I am being ignorant and if someone showed/taught me I would change my mind and take the knowledge to my grave XD

 

I think a lot of the secrecy surrounding the teachings comes more from the fact that people used to (and still do) make a living from the knowledge.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Felcor

[BaguaKicksAss]

Debating whether I would consider the scientific community as "swine" or not .

[SecretGrotto]

Since we aren't trying to convert people, why would we need to prove it?

 

The line between educating and proselytizing is perhaps a fine one

[aboo]

There was Ram Bahadur Bomjon, aka "the Buddha boy" - I think the discovery channel made a documentary about him. Even his amazing feats of meditation did not rouse that much interest from the scientific community or the wider population in the West. A curiosity, a 10 minute slot on the evening news. Esoteric by definition "likely to be understood by a small number of people".

[ralis]

Debating whether I would consider the scientific community as "swine" or not .

 

Without science, there would be rampant disease, very little sanitation, no Internet, no electricity, short life spans and so forth.

[nickyro]

Spirituality has never produced any work or community close to be respected by science.

We practice the culture of secrecy and Initiation while science wants universalism and humanism with access to its knowledge to everybody.

We tend to sectarianism, schisms and religion war, while science tends to woldwide unity and universtities around the world are working hand in hand.

We favor pretentious and megalomaniac figures (crowley, 20th century yogis ala Osho) over knowledge.

We practice intellectualism on subjects we don't know **** about!

We need simplification, back to basics, direct methodical experience over tradition and outdated knowledge.

 

My thirst for spirituality is absolute but I really despise having to dig into the INSANE amount of bullshit our communities produced.

Edited August 24, 2014 by nickyro

[BaguaKicksAss]

Without science, there would be rampant disease, very little sanitation, no Internet, no electricity, short life spans and so forth.

 

It was a joke regarding pearls before swine.... I meant it in the sense of perhaps not the best audience for spiritual info.

[BaguaKicksAss]

There was Ram Bahadur Bomjon, aka "the Buddha boy" - I think the discovery channel made a documentary about him. Even his amazing feats of meditation did not rouse that much interest from the scientific community or the wider population in the West. A curiosity, a 10 minute slot on the evening news. Esoteric by definition "likely to be understood by a small number of people".

 

That vid didn't even impress TTBers! Many felt it was faked...

[MooNiNite]

sharing with the scientific community is lame. they will find it eventually.

 

plus they only see what they want to see, so until they evolve they wont be receptive

Edited August 24, 2014 by MooNiNite

[doc benway]

plus they only see what they want to see, so until they evolve they wont be receptive

 

Do you think this only applies to the scientific community?

[MooNiNite]

Do you think this only applies to the scientific community?

 

it probably applies to everything, as long as one's awareness is trapped in their mind

[MooNiNite]

masters have been sharing with the scientific community for a very long time over and over. it's not like it hasn't been happening. there has been considerable research being done for a long time. There is old technology for example that uses photos for interfering with auras. this research was done in like the 70's

 

Referring to the breathless state, the ancient yogis in india used to go underground for long periods of time and baffle scientists when they came out

Edited August 24, 2014 by MooNiNite

[Aetherous]

Debating whether I would consider the scientific community as "swine" or not .

 

In some ways they are...when they abandon the scientific method in favor of what sounds comfortably "scientific". But in many ways they are not, and it would be great for them to be aware of things such as the breathless state, and to figure out how it works.

[Spotless]

 

In some ways they are...when they abandon the scientific method in favor of what sounds comfortably "scientific". But in many ways they are not, and it would be great for them to be aware of things such as the breathless state, and to figure out how it works.

This in a nutshell is precisely the reason why things are proceeding exactly as they should and no more "proof" other than the massive amounts of proof already available are necessary.

 

Science is not remotely at the level wherein it can figure out its ass from a hole in the ground let alone how the higher levels of practice / being "work". It is entirely centered on its ass and infatuated with the results that it has "attained" that it cannot possibly entertain seriously even the results of unwanted nuances. The politics of science are astounding and the idea that they like to collaborate across countries is far more fantasy than true. We are actually granting patents to things of nature.

 

But however much science is doing anything, it is not interested in intuition - it actively shits on and is vested in "the shitting on" of it.

 

Let us also take a look at the myth of "secrecy" - please tell me what is secret?

How to levitate? Perhaps but for good reason.

 

How to meditate?

 

A secret pill for enlightenment?

 

The secret platter that you would like everything served up on?

 

We all love to play victim and we all love to think of ourselves as the ones that see clearly the fault of that which is perfect.

 

We are fundamentally scared shitless of being in the present - becoming everything we like and hate.

We can have answers rain down on us that tell us everything we need to do and we will piss on it and shit on it and put it under a microscope and then fuck with it and then walk away and blog about the misery of it all after taking a sleeping pill and reading up on who killed who today.

 

Are the best spiritual teachers interested in "proving" anything more than is already underway and on the books - the proof is dripping from the shelves if you have the eyes to see just how lazy you have been but we do not want to see the proof of our laziness so we are like the politicians that are forever doubting the overwhelming evidence of everything that clearly needs to be done.

 

We do not want proof, we do not want answers, we do not want anything we do not deserve and we do not wish to be able to deserve it because we would just have arrived at the point at which we could write books on it and lecture.

 

Secret initiations are not secret - they are ceremony held as secret in order to help the student take seriously a next step.

And sometimes people need to receive a badge because patting themselves on the back is akin to likening themselves to someone deserving and god forbid someone stand erect in all of this moping about.

 

There are no secrets withheld from anyone ready for them and there is no secret teaching that is of a higher order.

If scientist we given 100 million dollars and one full hour with someone levitating the absolute best they could come up with is "inconclusive" because it would simply be impossible to accept at this point in time.

 

People are waking up all over the world at an unprecedented rate - but their own neighbors do not recognize it.

We here in the west expect the adept to wipe our ass for a seminar fee.

In much of the East they fear seeing into the spirit world - they are really terrified of it.

Here we think a cross and some garlic is being proactive - what amazing none sense.

We are in love with fear, we shower in it, extrapolate it, revere it and pretend we fear nothing with the exception of the other guy who we need to keep a constant judgement on.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Spotless

[forestofclarity]

According to many of the ancient worthies, East and West, the acid test of a master is freedom.

 

 

Yogananda: "The acid test of a master is the breathless state."

[Spotless]

We have so many "proofs" that are out there perhaps better than the breath proof would be.

The Phantom Leaf Phenomenon has been replicated many times.

Taking pictures of thought forms thrown at a negative has been replicated.

The Chinese employed high level Shaolin temple monks for their psychic abilities, the USA and Russia had their programs as well - pretty sure that is because the proofs are sitting right there for anyone wanting them.

The number of studies from the University founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is in the hundreds.

 

How many monks need to sit on blocks of ice and melt through them outside during the winter in snow when it is overwhelmingly clear anyone else would die of hypothermia let alone get frostbite and possibly loose a limb or two?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Spotless

[BaguaKicksAss]

In some ways they are...when they abandon the scientific method in favor of what sounds comfortably "scientific". But in many ways they are not, and it would be great for them to be aware of things such as the breathless state, and to figure out how it works.

 

Or when they are paid off to produce specific results...

[mace134]

I remember reading in a book that was written by a parapsychologist who said the reason why some scientist dont want to touch this area is because it damages their reputation which is very important in the academic world. There have been studies done in thewest but some of them come out inconclusive. In the book Beyond Biofeedback the yogi swammi rama was studied. In one test he wanted to prove the existence of psychokinesis. They wrapped him in a straight jacket and covered his mouth with a gasmask so that he couldn't move the object which was a weighed down needle with his breath. When he moved the weighed down needle even though they were baffled but not convinced even though they couldn't explain how he did it. I personally think that one day science will accept things like this but like most things it will take time. I dont think it will happen in my lifetime but it will happen

[MooNiNite]

im pretty sure if you touch some1 in the breathless state they could die

[Silent Answers]

Inviting people to experiment and test out your claims to show the world is contradictory to everything you would have done to reach that point. It's not that it's a closely guarded secret, but it's not worth all the trouble of showing off.

 

Also, I don't believe anybody is able to stop breathing altogether. You can slow your breath right down and calm the subconscious action to the point that you can go long periods breathless without effort. Eventually you have to bring yourself out of it though, or you'll certainly cause damage to your physical body.

[SecretGrotto]

According to many of the ancient worthies, East and West, the acid test of a master is freedom.

 

Agreed, but freedom and the breathless state are not mutually exclusive, since the breathless state is a reliable indicator of a minimum level of 'freedom' the master has attained.

 

Only through absolute physical stillness can one generate full spiritual movement. The stiller the outer the more movement in the inner. This is the great mystery of life. At extreme Yang, the Yin emerges, and at the extreme Yin, the Yang emerges.

 

The so-called second-level Saturnian masters have an outward manifestation of a big 30-feet ovoid of Light, that is absolutely still. Only through that physical stillness can those godlike beings simultaneously inhabit thousands of bodies across the galaxy.

 

Self-imposed limitation is the key to real freedom. One cannot attain freedom through the exercise of free will.

 

 

Yogananda simply gave the breathless state as an outward indicator whereby one can ascertain how advanced a practitioner is, in addition to indicators such as highly infrequent blinking and total suspended outward movement.

 

Stopping the heart, I imagine, should also fairly accompany a breathless state, but will probably only manifest after the breathless state has been achieved. This stopping of the heart too can be used as a highly interesting phenomena that can be completely medically scrutinized beyond doubt and alternative explanations if it is done at will.

 

 

Yes, a couple of Indian yogis have been buried alive for years, but what the world needs is recent proof performed in a best medical setting such as an academic USA hospital, with a lot of publicity. Otherwise if one refers to proof that is +50 years old very few people will take it seriously.

 

The proof needs to be redone, and needs to be done to absolute satisfaction in multiple hospitals. Almost like the Harvard brainscans of experienced meditators. But why beat around the bush, if a highly experienced yogic practitioner is willing to display the phenomena achieved in his own body, why limit it to only brainscans?

 

The proven phenomena does not necessarily have to be the breathless state, but this in addition to stopping the heart or bloodflow at will is the best phenomena I can think of that can be reliably medically scrutinized. And it will give great cause for the mainstream to take a more serious look at the claims of taoist and yogic practitioners.

Edited August 25, 2014 by SecretGrotto