Horse stance vs tiger stance

[joeblast]

I honestly like horse stance better - this stance seems to minimize the usage of the psoas muscle....whereas horse stance, its all about it

 

why the bend in the upper thoracic?

 

 

 

 

 

Increasing the number of fibers inside the muscle,

As increase in fibers is EXACTLY what muscle growth is. You may want to know what the fuck you're talking about before you laugh at something.

An increase in the diameter of a muscle fiber is not an increase in the number of muscle fibers. Think about what you're saying - muscles just "add new fibers" and that's how they grow? *facepalm*

[Chang]

The point that is mostly overlooked in standing practice is that of correct bodily alignment whereby that which is manifest, namely the physical body, is used to strengthen that which is un-manifest, the energetic body.

 

To correctly align the body whilst stationary is the first step. After this comes correct anignment of the moving body.

 

To use standing practice as an endurance contest is to miss the point I am afraid.

 

I will also add a warning. A good teacher is a must when dealing with stance and posture, as standing for long periods in a misaligned posture is asking to do oneself a mischief.

[soaring crane]

On Michael Winn's Fundamental II DVD he has a chi gung series. One movement is Crossing the Ocean, you start out positioned like a swimmer about to start a race, very tiger stance like (I think) and then you straighten out while bringing the arms towards and behind you (like your paddling). After straightening and leaning forward you return to the low 'divers' crouch, repeat.

 

Its very good for the back flexing it forward and backwards as you 'Cross the Ocean'.

That sounds an awful lot like one of the movements from the classic shibashi sequence

[Chang]

That sounds an awful lot like one of the movements from the classic shibashi sequence

 

There is nothing new under the sun.

[soaring crane]

There is nothing new under the sun.

 

yes, but cosmically speaking, we aren't under the sun, we're the third planet next to it.

[hagar]

On Michael Winn's Fundamental II DVD he has a chi gung series. One movement is Crossing the Ocean, you start out positioned like a swimmer about to start a race, very tiger stance like (I think) and then you straighten out while bringing the arms towards and behind you (like your paddling). After straightening and leaning forward you return to the low 'divers' crouch, repeat.

 

Its very good for the back flexing it forward and backwards as you 'Cross the Ocean'.

 

I´ve seen the vid! Finally something I can refer to, yay!

 

As for the similarity, I guess it´s pretty similar in the beginning, as it is static, but the dynamic phase is something else alltogether. However, this stance also works on the lower spine alot.

 

h

[hagar]

I know, the horse looks way cooler too.

However, there are spesific energetic advantages to the tiger that far surpasses the horse related to internal organs; lungs liver and lower back/pelvis is toned. It works directly at the liver, and anger.
Its much more an energetic or chi practice than a Jing practice.

 

The bend part of spesifically designed to work on the above mentioned ways.

 

Looks lamer though

 

I honestly like horse stance better - this stance seems to minimize the usage of the psoas muscle....whereas horse stance, its all about it

 

why the bend in the upper thoracic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

An increase in the diameter of a muscle fiber is not an increase in the number of muscle fibers. Think about what you're saying - muscles just "add new fibers" and that's how they grow? *facepalm*

[ViscountValmont]

I honestly like horse stance better - this stance seems to minimize the usage of the psoas muscle....whereas horse stance, its all about it

 

why the bend in the upper thoracic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

An increase in the diameter of a muscle fiber is not an increase in the number of muscle fibers. Think about what you're saying - muscles just "add new fibers" and that's how they grow? *facepalm*

 

JoeBlast,

 

It's a matter of wording, my god. Are you all really like this? No one said that growing muscle adds ENTIRE CABLES OF FIBER. Muscle growth occurs when tearing results, which is then filled in with chains of protein, increasing the size of the muscle fiber. Now, in densifying these fibers, you are NOT increasing the diameter!!! In fact it is DECREASING IT, as evidenced by the OP!

 

So, what's your counter-theory to this?

 

David,

 

Yes I have spent PLENTY of time around body builders. I have trained them, and trained with them in martial arts. How is it so hard to see my meaning here? They train for LOOKS. Clearly this has an effect of their overall strength. No one said they have NO strength. I have muscle strength! Christ! But the difference in the TRAINING is either a more attractive muscle which is stronger by proxy, or a STRONGER muscle which is its main focus. The purpose of these classifications of different muscles is because the muscles of the body ADAPT to what you're doing!!! So if you're not pushing the muscles for strength, rather than just an increase in size, then the muscle conforms to this! Yes, SOME strength results from body building. But I would choose my own Internal Strength over theirs any day. And as I've stated before... I'm 150 lbs.

Edited August 26, 2014 by ViscountValmont

[MooNiNite]

With a vain attempt to keep the thread on topic, I break my own rule of posting vids of myself, to actually show an example of the Tiger stance;

 

 

thanks for the post!

 

also, i think it is interesting that you place your left arm over your right arm. this is actually fairly uncommon. but it probably doesn't really matter.

[hagar]

thanks for the post!

 

also, i think it is interesting that you place your left arm over your right arm. this is actually fairly uncommon. but it probably doesn't really matter.

Accordingto my system, this is done in almost all crossings of arms. Especially infront of the LDT, in closings etc.

 

h

[MooNiNite]

Accordingto my system, this is done in almost all crossings of arms. Especially infront of the LDT, in closings etc.

 

h

 

interesting. it's always right over left from the systems that I have studied. I can see it being effective for closing though.

 

the theory is that the energy goes out the right hand then in the left hand.

[soaring crane]

interesting. it's always right over left from the systems that I have studied. I can see it being effective for closing though.

 

the theory is that the energy goes out the right hand then in the left hand.

 

huh. That's less common in my experience. The pedants usually want the right hand on the LDT and the left hand over the top. The other variation is women have the left hand on top, men the right hand.

 

Personally, I think it's just dogmatic and it's better to let the intuition guide the posture. Being left-handed/right-handed has to affect the energy flow to begin with, and then there's a whole long history of development behind each individual adult human which affects the energetic body.

 

(did a dumb thing with my morning session. D/L'd a zazen timer app yesterday and programmed it incorrectly. Thought I had it set for 20 minutes but it was 120 minutes! I started getting antsy and thinking there must be something wrong after about 35 minutes of standing. Was late for work, geesh)

[hagar]

interesting. it's always right over left from the systems that I have studied. I can see it being effective for closing though.

 

the theory is that the energy goes out the right hand then in the left hand.

 

On the same note I sit with my left leg inside.

 

I doesn´t matter very much though. Most important is tuning.

 

Tuning is everything. It can waist a decade not doing it correctly.

It´s actually mindblowing; 5 minutes every day, and you are 10 years ahead down the line.

 

Just like practice in general; if you aim in the wrong direction, like trying to improve anything not allready there, you pay the consequences

http://blairishwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/enlightenment.jpg

[hagar]

huh. That's less common in my experience. The pedants usually want the right hand on the LDT and the left hand over the top. The other variation is women have the left hand on top, men the right hand.

 

Personally, I think it's just dogmatic and it's better to let the intuition guide the posture. Being left-handed/right-handed has to affect the energy flow to begin with, and then there's a whole long history of development behind each individual adult human which affects the energetic body.

 

(did a dumb thing with my morning session. D/L'd a zazen timer app yesterday and programmed it incorrectly. Thought I had it set for 20 minutes but it was 120 minutes! I started getting antsy and thinking there must be something wrong after about 35 minutes of standing. Was late for work, geesh)

 

corresponds to my experience.

 

h

[doc benway]

With a vain attempt to keep the thread on topic, I break my own rule of posting vids of myself, to actually show an example of the Tiger stance;

 

 

Very glad you broke your rule - nice to see you!

 

I also broke a rule, I practice a series of yoga movements I got from a book.

Wonderful series, one of which involves a very similar posture, although with the hands resting on the ground, a bit forward of the shoulders, and the back horizontal, knees flexed, heels off the ground. Quite a challenging posture but lots of reward.

[hagar]

Very glad you broke your rule - nice to see you!

 

I also broke a rule, I practice a series of yoga movements I got from a book.

Wonderful series, one of which involves a very similar posture, although with the hands resting on the ground, a bit forward of the shoulders, and the back horizontal, knees flexed, heels off the ground. Quite a challenging posture but lots of reward.

 

I realized I havent placed a pic of myself in all these years. =)

 

sounds interesting. Keep me posted about the rewards

[joeblast]

J

sorry, not worthy of a reply

[C T]

I realized I havent placed a pic of myself in all these years. =)

 

sounds interesting. Keep me posted about the rewards

I have, the odd time when reading your posts, visualized you looking a bit like Hagar the Horrible. Big, broad, & bearded.

 

so wrong, so so wrong.... (shakes head)

 

Nice to be able to put a correct face to your posts from now on.

 

respect for vid!!

[soaring crane]

I have, the odd time when reading your posts, visualized you looking a bit like Hagar the Horrible. Big, broad, & bearded.

 

 

same here haha

 

(actually, I think I've pictured him more as Wickie, a similar character from a children's cartoon about Wickinger)

 

[joeblast]

I know, the horse looks way cooler too.

However, there are spesific energetic advantages to the tiger that far surpasses the horse related to internal organs; lungs liver and lower back/pelvis is toned. It works directly at the liver, and anger.

Its much more an energetic or chi practice than a Jing practice.

 

The bend part of spesifically designed to work on the above mentioned ways.

 

Looks lamer though

Interesting....complimentary, one certainly not a substitute for the other

[hagar]

I have, the odd time when reading your posts, visualized you looking a bit like Hagar the Horrible. Big, broad, & bearded.

 

so wrong, so so wrong.... (shakes head)

 

Nice to be able to put a correct face to your posts from now on.

 

respect for vid!!

LOL

 

At least I started out with alot of hair and a beard a while back, but nop, nowhere near the comic strip Hagar

 

Got the name playing highschool football in Idaho, FOI; got carried away playing defensive end....

Who would have known...

[hagar]

Interesting....complimentary, one certainly not a substitute for the other

But what are the effects of horse stance, and what are the dangers of overdoing that? Too yang?

 

h

[hagar]

same here haha

 

(actually, I think I've pictured him more as Wickie, a similar character from a children's cartoon about Wickinger)

 

Vikinger? HAHA!

Is he the dude in the middle?

 

Of course, Viking cultivation goes way back too...

[Green Tiger]

Great video Hagar! I've practiced a similar stance, but with the back more straight. How does your breathing feel in that posture? Has it changed since you started? Do you feel like you can take a deeper breath now than when you began practicing the posture?

 

I think the instructor called it turtle stance, or Golden Tortoise--something like that. Not tiger. I've seen a lot of stances called 'tiger' stance. I think the posture shown below is the most deserving of the title.

 

 

 

Also, I'm curious, do you treat this as a standalone practice or part of a routine? Do you practice other postures before and after this one?

Edited August 28, 2014 by Green Tiger

[Brian]

LOL

 

At least I started out with alot of hair and a beard a while back, but nop, nowhere near the comic strip Hagar

 

Got the name playing highschool football in Idaho, FOI; got carried away playing defensive end....

Who would have known...

I LOVED playing defensive end!!! Maybe it's a Viking thing (my grandmother came over from Norway as a child).