Women & TTB

[thelerner]

last page of comments are male male male male male male.

 

I suggest we be quiet and for a few pages just let the ladies speak.

we've asked questions, made statements..

now lets just listen.

ladies..

[Nungali]

You just said a woman was making male comments ... and I posted ..

 

 

....oh ... all right then ... have it your way ....

[zanshin]

last page of comments are male male male male male male.

 

I suggest we be quiet and for a few pages just let the ladies speak.

we've asked questions, made statements..

now lets just listen.

ladies..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguson-holocaust-_n_5689822.html

 

 

I'd like to think by the time I'm 90 people won't have to deal with this stuff anymore. Pretty ironic that a thread about how to make women feel more comfortable here devolved to get a comment about women are materialistic and that's just their nature. I would like to see more women posting here and of course we all will have different opinions too. Pretty sure I'm skewed toward anti-censorship side so perhaps my opinion would be a minimum suggestion-

 

- using words like "phaggot" or any slur resembling this that inherently insults a group of people, has no place in a intelligent discussion or on a spiritual board. Should be a fast track to suspension and/or banning.

 

- sweeping stereotypes like "women are peaceful", "homosexuals are artistic", or "blacks have superior athletic ability" are wrong on multiple levels. Okay, I used positive stereotypes because I abhor the negative ones, even the positive ones make me want to roll my eyes. These should be a fast track to at least suspension. Perhaps an opportunity for posters to clean up reasoning and writing skills too.

 

Don't know what hate speech guidelines are for other boards. In my opinion, there is value in talking about topics like gender and race. I wouldn't want to see it regulated to point where we can't talk about it or pretend it doesn't exist. Again IMO, statements about "XYZ religious order historically did not allow homosexuals to join", or "I've noticed women are more likely to date me since I was promoted from fry cook to manager, so I think women I like to date are materialistic since I'm still fat with a bad personality." are perhaps allowable but worthy of the mod teams attention to watch. Then again, more work for mod team, who are volunteers, so I can understand a harsher policy too. Just on this thread, Luke helped me understand why the "we have to accept gays because that's the way they're born" argument even when put forth by well meaning people never quite sat right with me. Personally I think some discussion of most any topic can be valuable, but am moving toward the side of having more guidelines for it.

 

Might start a women's cultivation sub in my ppf, would be mostly links since I have more academic interest than practical experience in the subject.

[Stosh]

Thats a good post , but ummm, how does someone have a womens cultivation subforum without violating the correct social ettiquette being promoted. Its essentially hypocritical. IMO

One just cant get away from the sexism by reversing it , or artificially trying to make it go away.

It just has to be let go of and forgotten ,

made moot by non attatchment.

[zanshin]

Thats a good post , but ummm, how does someone have a womens cultivation subforum without violating the correct social ettiquette being promoted. Its essentially hypocritical. IMO

One just cant get away from the sexism by reversing it , or artificially trying to make it go away.

It just has to be let go of and forgotten ,

made moot by non attatchment.

If an administrative decision would be made for no discussion of gender, sexual cultivation, or retention etc. would be made, then I should take it down. I am not troubled by retention threads, unless perhaps someone would comment something like "women are vampires who try to steal your life force." I don't know if discussion of cultivation techniques specific to men bothers other women or makes them feel unwelcome, but I have no problem with it.

[Brian]

Individuals are discarded when focus is on groups.

[Aetherous]

I don't know if discussion of cultivation techniques specific to men bothers other women or makes them feel unwelcome, but I have no problem with it.

 

And I have no problem with women having women's cultivation discussion. I don't view such a thing as being reverse-sexist.

[Taomeow]

Thats a good post , but ummm, how does someone have a womens cultivation subforum without violating the correct social ettiquette being promoted. Its essentially hypocritical. IMO

One just cant get away from the sexism by reversing it , or artificially trying to make it go away.

It just has to be let go of and forgotten ,

made moot by non attatchment.

 

 

How often do you see your gynecologist?

Did you try any TCM herbs for morning sickness when you were pregnant?

Have you practiced ovarian breathing lately?

Do you regulate your periods with the Deer exercise?

Did you accept or reject an epidural when you were in labor with your first child?

Do you feel the Mayan uterus adjustment practices have made you a more balanced... um... man?

How do you use the middle dantien to maintain healthy breasts?

What should you eat to avoid the symptoms of menopause?

 

Would you deem these and similar concerns sexist or moot, best let go of and forgotten?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Reading through 11 pages... I have to say I'm surprised at so much resistance; to what boils down to just a discussion on "lets all have a little more forethought and respect before posting". I would think (if the thread were reversed) "Hmmm, the men are saying that when we post, we should just think for a second to see whether we are being derogatory with our words before we hit the post button. OK, I'll work on that." would sort of be the natural thought process. I don't feel it is the sort of thing where you have to go being really careful or anything, just a second or 2 of extra thought; just like in person where you say some things, but not others.

 

Btw, I like the cultivation threads; I like to learn about what people experience. Also it is good information that helps me to understand the guys I know better. I also do join in those threads from time to time .

[Stosh]

Me personally , I do think its sexist based idea,

1 you already couldve talked about or started a thread on it any of that at any time

there still is no call that there needs to be a special 'womens section' for it, just like I dont see a mens section.

The desire to somehow segregate out a special section for it, is where the issue of just reversing sexism appears.

 

2 Men have wives daughters mothers and jobs in the medical fields ,

and frankly some may know more on the subject of womens health issues than you do.

 

and no, I dont think the issues are sexist , nor moot.

 

@Z

About this,,

"women are vampires who try to steal your life force."

C'mon , dont expect me to try to justify stupidity like that.. but I will say , that theres plenty of things I find ridiculous or even mildly offensive if I was going to be bothered by it -every day. Heck I just recently read "men are pigs" . Thats more justifiable ?

[dawei]

Bring on the anti-hate speech policy.

 

Ironic you mention it... this thread caused me to start some discussion on the definition of anti-hate speeches

[zanshin]

Me personally , I do think its sexist based idea,

1 you already couldve talked about or started a thread on it any of that at any time

there still is no call that there needs to be a special 'womens section' for it, just like I dont see a mens section.

The desire to somehow segregate out a special section for it, is where the issue of just reversing sexism appears.

 

2 Men have wives daughters mothers and jobs in the medical fields ,

and frankly some may know more on the subject of womens health issues than you do.

 

and no, I dont think the issues are sexist , nor moot.

 

@Z

About this,,

"women are vampires who try to steal your life force."

C'mon , dont expect me to try to justify stupidity like that.. but I will say , that theres plenty of things I find ridiculous or even mildly offensive if I was going to be bothered by it -every day. Heck I just recently read "men are pigs" . Thats more justifiable ?

1) I think men already do have retention topics in their ppfs, it's bookmarks and links to already existing discussions.

 

2) Agreed, not set up as a secret club with men forbidden, some info linked to started by men.

 

3) Both are stupid and I think it's reasonable to consider that these might be included in the definition of anti-hate speeches.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think the women thing is sort of a big deal, is that in society in general, we still have such a long way to go. Who doesn't of course, but the folks who can relate to the type of person who might need a little more awareness about them can always relate the best. Things are improving daily. For example on my facebook feed recently I have seen that some folks are working on nail polish which changes colour when the person has ingested a date rape drug. Recently some other folks are trying to work with nightclubs to introduce plastic cups which change colour when a date rape drug is in the mix. These sorts of things not only keep people safe (I'm pretty sure they are used for nefarious actions towards men as well), but also brings about awareness that in general some things need to change, and also shows how much support there is for things which are no longer (and never were) OK.

[joeblast]

Well, thanks for sharing that with us Songtsan, but that's idiotic to think you shouldn't defend yourself any differently from a woman than from a man. The average 14 year old boy would be about an even match for the average grown woman, and there's a reason why it's also dishonourable to go toe to toe with a fourteen year old boy unless your maybe under 16 yrs old.

 

And yes, I can say that it's idiotic, because again, being against bashing women is acceptable on ttb. Being for bashing women is not acceptable.

anyone saying that has never actually been assaulted by a woman...

sure, in most cases, no match at all.

but that doesnt mean you dont defend yourself if you're physically attacked. (especially if there's a weapon involved)

[Stosh]

1) I think men already do have retention topics in their ppfs, it's bookmarks and links to already existing discussions.

Right , agreed, the subjects are open , sometimes folks want to be a bit private , fine.

 

2) Agreed, not set up as a secret club with men forbidden, some info linked to started by men.

 

Again , fine nolo contendere.

 

 

3) Both are stupid and I think it's reasonable to consider that these might be included in the definition of anti-hate speeches.

The comments? Yeah they are , but heck , theyre just comments , sometimes said as jokes , sometimes relating to more emotional-upbringing issues. Ya gotta see that many of the dudes here are sympathetic about the malignment of both women and men , gays and races and probably of puppies and bears.

 

All Im saying is that dividing up the 'water fountains' has a negative aspect- it emphasizes stereotypes, instead of you ladies right there in the mix , yall end up seen discussing vaginas in some back room.

IF this action is taken specifically to attract women , ( which I figure it would) then the attracted women are attracted to the clique , the subjects of that clique etc

The men that may not give a hoot to hear about 50 cures for menstrual cramps , well theyre just going to see this as one more example of women having no larger interests ,, AND theyd be largely right about it because youve attracted women who really did have these interests foremost ,, Proof of that ? well, they didnt show up for the rest of the subject matter.

 

Im not saying you cant talk the subjects just that reversing sexism - or racism- doesnt put an end to it ,, the erroneous perceptions are emphasized. Yall need to stay in the mix and put up with all the various brands of stupidity just like the men.

Dont retreat.

[Stosh]

Um... So?

 

What does this have to do with women wanting to share their experiences of their own bodies? And, their experiences of non-popular medically based remedies? As a philosophical Taoist, are you denigrating Taoist/energetic, herbal, shamanistic, and alternative medical ways in which women promote their health?

Youre setting up a straw man argument here , Thats a no no.

[zanshin]

Okay I understand. It came to mind as something interesting to me that others might be interested in. Now I'm organizing my Natural Vision Improvements bookmarks and will make that a ppf topic, neither meant as a clique.

[Stosh]

Then what was your point?

Just that the bad examples men have set , creating boys clubs, excluding women etc isnt the fix -just reversed for gender.

Some guy wants to talk about his semen retention, in general or health , well then you just go right ahead and post up those physical issues that interest women in particular.

At the very least, why shouldnt guys have some interest in their partners wellbeing?

 

But mainly my point is that if you are doing it for reasons that have stereotype at heart , well then you 'aint no better' and are not noticing of the fact that it doesnt fix the social issue which offends us.

[Songtsan]

Though I might be on a list or two Ive never put anyone on an ignore list , ever.

( that I recall)

I dont want to box out entirely folks I may eventually come to like,

or may say things Im not happy about hearing , but should listen to at least.

It strikes me ,personally, as intolerant, or breeding of intolerance.

it doesnt look like extending compassion for humanity in general

and besides , I just have too much curiosity.

I just cant find it in me to close doors like that.

But I get it , that some folks feel otherwise.

 

Good points...In Buddhism, they say that what aggravates you the most holds the greatest lessons...

[Songtsan]

Ultimately, seeing difference within what is truly 'sameness' (The nondual view) is what creates suffering. This is an answer to the whole issue if you approach it directly. The end to all schisms is simply ending mental commentary. Where do terms such as 'male' or 'female' lie when there is union?

 

Mostly what is going on in this thread is left-brained analytic discussion, which is Yang.

 

In order to have some right/left unity, some Yin expressions would help balance things?

 

How would that happen?

 

If Yang is confident statements of belief which cut reality into relationships, what is Yin?

 

I make lots of assumptions here...

 

.

[Taomeow]

I just bought two books written by a Wudangshan taoist nun on the secret practices of female and dual sexual cultivation, translated into Russian, not available in English. I'll be damned if I share any of that at the general forum. The women-only section is where I might.

 

Immature creatures of indefinite gender (those who substitute their stereotypical mental constructs to project onto both women and men, and are consequently unable to have any meaningful relationships with any women or men because real people don't exist in their world, only stereotypes projected onto women and men which blot the real person out of existence) -- these are not ready for sexual secrets of taoism, and would fuck them up if they tried to apply them, just as they fuck up all their gender-specific cultivation because they don't even belong to their real gender physiologically, much less psychologically, due to the stereotype in their head blotting it out of existence. They are perhaps members of their sex anatomically, but that's not enough for undertaking taoist sexual cultivation. Applies to both sexes -- we don't only have too few women here, we have a drastic shortage of men. Those of the anatomically correct ones who however are not developed as men, don't function as men physiologically, psychologically, emotionally or socially, don't count.

[Stosh]

Well that there speaks for itself.

Ill leave it there.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Stosh

[dawei]

From my perspective, this thread has been generally very disappointing... but I can blame it all on Brian for starting it

 

I thought to go back through and read only the male posts; and then again to read only the female posts... but I felt that I would end up with reading two completely different posting ideas in the end.

 

I don't have the time to clean it up right now and pit stuff, but it deserves far better than it has received but I don't this really surprises some.

 

I am thinking of how there can be a Women's Cultivation section and am asking a few for comments now.

 

 

Let's see if we can keep this on topic or let it die a natural death

[Brian]

Drawing lines around certain groups who need special protection is a divisive practice with no rationality with regards to when to stop. As a result, irrationality prevails and lines are drawn ad infinitum. Those who feel "we have to do something" feel good about themselves because they believe they have "done good" while those who seek to foment division & to diminish the individual in favor of group identity laugh their asses off.

 

The problem is individuals treating other individuals with disrespect. The desired result is individuals treating other individuals with respect.

 

It is actually fairly easy to understand once emotion is removed from the conversation and the promoters (both unwitting & otherwise) of group-think authoritarianism are ignored.

[3bob]

I just bought two books written by a Wudangshan taoist nun on the secret practices of female and dual sexual cultivation, translated into Russian, not available in English. I'll be damned if I share any of that at the general forum. The women-only section is where I might.

 

Immature creatures of indefinite gender (those who substitute their stereotypical mental constructs to project onto both women and men, and are consequently unable to have any meaningful relationships with any women or men because real people don't exist in their world, only stereotypes projected onto women and men which blot the real person out of existence) -- these are not ready for sexual secrets of taoism, and would fuck them up if they tried to apply them, just as they fuck up all their gender-specific cultivation because they don't even belong to their real gender physiologically, much less psychologically, due to the stereotype in their head blotting it out of existence. They are perhaps members of their sex anatomically, but that's not enough for undertaking taoist sexual cultivation. Applies to both sexes -- we don't only have too few women here, we have a drastic shortage of men. Those of the anatomically correct ones who however are not developed as men, don't function as men physiologically, psychologically, emotionally or socially, don't count.

 

Do those less fortunate than you not count to Spirit?