Women & TTB

[C T]

Men dominate the majority of philosophies and religions...it is very difficult to find a reverse of this.

 

We can name so many male philosphers, religious figureheads, "masters" etc. Someone find me a female of the sort and let me eat my hat!

 

This is the nature, and it is sad. I have no solutions at this point, only observations, but I'll have a think and get back to y'all!

Thats because men have a greater tendency to off-balanced than women.

[Nungali]

rhetorical and presuming

 

yep and annoying ... a mod put up a post to try to clear up some sexist issues, ( that actually make this forum look pretty bad at times) we seek to get women to open up and share their feelings of whatever ... and their views are classified as 'prison bars' ... and get all this spiritual stuff dumped on it like we should not be addressing this issue, like we are all lost to the enlightenment of Buddha ... or something. Perhaps the posts from women were not read ? Maybe they are all on ignore and that's why they were included in the "everyone's" ?

 

To me, this approach is absolute rubbish ... what was that term Seth Anand used above ? ....... ah yes; " spiritual bypassing".

 

What a great term .... I might adopt it .... I used to call that Eloi - remember the old Time Machine movie - the Eloi are lounging and feasting and a kid is drowning .... oh well, best not to get in a kerfuffle about it ... probably her karma <continues feasting> ... at least my centre is not disturbed .

 

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by Nungali

[zanshin]

Men dominate the majority of philosophies and religions...it is very difficult to find a reverse of this.

 

We can name so many male philosphers, religious figureheads, "masters" etc. Someone find me a female of the sort and let me eat my hat!

 

This is the nature, and it is sad. I have no solutions at this point, only observations, but I'll have a think and get back to y'all!

Sun Buer

St. Teresa of Avila

[Aetherous]

Thats because men have a greater tendency to off-balanced than women.

 

Lets reverse that and see the response...

[C T]

yep and annoying ... a mod put up a post to try to clear up some sexist issues, ( that actually make this forum look pretty bad at times) we seek to get women to open up and share their feelings of whatever ... and their views are classified as 'prison bars' ... and get all this spiritual stuff dumped on it like we should not be addressing this issue, like we are all lost to the enlightenment of Buddha ... or something. Perhaps the posts from women were not read ? Maybe they are all on ignore and that's why they were included in the "everyone's" ?

 

To me, this approach is absolute rubbish ... what was that term Seth Anand used above ? ....... ah yes; " spiritual bypassing".

 

What a great term .... I might adopt it .... I used to call that Eloi - remember the old Time Machine movie - the Eloi are lounging and feasting and a kid is drowning .... oh well, best not to get in a kerfuffle about it ... probably her karma <continues feasting> ... at least my centre is not disturbed .

Its quite odd that you felt this coming from Spotless' post above.

 

What i picked up from it is the message that we will do well to find our center, meaning, as self-proclaimed spiritual practitioners or aspirants, we should have at least managed to have had a sense that such a center exist, and then to try and conduct our affairs from there so that we will not be so affected by external things.

 

And if we do, then the possibility of being imprisoned by what affects us becomes a real threat towards the displacement of that center. Sure, if everyone here has the kind of solid spiritual grounding that you think they should have, then well and good, everyone go on their merry way & spit on Spotless' words while passing. Does everyone here have an unshakeable faith in their own capacities and capabilities? I would hazard a guess and say no. To me, its quite obvious... i for one do not.

 

Thats the way i read the post anyway. Im sure you will have your own take on it, and you may disagree with whats been said, which you are fully entitled to. To be frank, i would say that we can only take so much from what we read based on our own inner views about things.

Edited August 30, 2014 by C T

[C T]

Lets reverse that and see the response...

[3bob]

Ct,

The fact is that not to many of us are here to be shrinked over, (at least and probably not very much and not without give and take dialogue) thus spotless electing himself as the sites master shrink is presumptuous, along with a one size fits all us members summation and also using Buddhist teachers as an example and proof to do so - some of whom we may not be into as much as he apparently is...

Edited August 30, 2014 by 3bob

[Nungali]

Especially on this topic. I would have thought more people than you would have been sensitive to that.

[Nungali]

Sun Buer

St. Teresa of Avila

 

Hildegard of Bingham ... Ida Craddock ( she needs to be raised to the level of Loa I reckon) ... Fatima the Tent Maker .... Liz Greene ... Normandy Elis ( brilliant ! http://www.amazon.com/Awakening-Osiris-Egyptian-Book-Dead/dp/0933999747 ) .... Tahirih ( http://info.bahai.org/article-1-3-7-2.html ) .....

[Nungali]

[C T]

Ct,

The fact is that not to many of us are here to be shrinked over, (at least and probably not very much and not without give and take dialogue) thus spotless electing himself as the sites master shrink is presumptuous, along with a one size fits all us members summation and also using Buddhist teachers as an example and proof to do so - some of whom we may not be into as much as he apparently is...

I respect your opinion, 3Bob, but honestly i did not even clue in at all that he was trying to boss anyone (your allusion to the term 'self-elected master shrink') into submission.

 

Haven't you read something on TTB before and went, "Hey, i sense that something may not be right with that post/thread, i'd better post a note of caution, in case someone stumbles..." ? Im sure we have all done it, to a certain degree.

[Songtsan]

So Proper rules against hate speech?

 

And a Forum for Female cultivation? {and possibly male?}

 

 

What do people think?

 

Could be useful. I'd find it exciting to see a bunch of material gathered in one place for either gender..

Edited August 31, 2014 by Songtsan

[3bob]

CT, This is dragging off topic but Spotless does start out with a one size fits all type of summation in the words below:

 

"This post has brought out everyone's torches.

This carrying of torches, however justified or intelligent it may seem - these are the prison bars".

 

(Btw, I've meant torches more than once and I'm dam glad I did since they helped save my ass)

 

Any-who it may not be exactly what was said (which I may bend some on) but more on how it was said .

Edited August 31, 2014 by 3bob

[Songtsan]

 

I think it's very widespread for people to have no clearly delineated gender to call their own -- partially it's scrambled values (e.g., in order to behave "professionally," a woman is meticulously conditioned to behave like a man; in order to be a "good father," a man is expected to be away from his children every day and never let their lives distract him from his career; and on and on);

partially it's scrambled chemistry (xenoestrogens in the environment and contraceptive pills in the women's bodies create a metabolic milieu where a male fetus can't be fully convinced he's male on the hormonal level -- that's why sex change is more common man to woman than the opposite, the mismatch between anatomy and the deepest self-identification is triggered by excessive estrogen at gestation. If we were exposed to xenotestosterones instead, e.g. if the toxic, carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic, stroke-promoting, health-destroying contraceptive pill was something the man had to take rather than the woman, the picture would have been opposite -- to wit, there would be more women feeling that they're men trapped in female bodies. That's the price we pay when we tax one gender -- the other one invariably pays as well, so the absence of interest in a contraceptive pill for males has this inadvertent outcome, more men being born without having had the benefit of male-specific fetal development. But don't let me digress.)

 

So, I'm not hopeful that we can solve anything at an online forum, we're dealing with trouble at the core of existence in the stand-off of sexes that is completely unnatural, and a stand-off of bogus sexes at that, men who are not what nature meant by that and women, ditto. The minor band-aid to apply to the situation I see as disastrous would be an enforcement of common courtesy, a rule against hurting people's feelings. (Incidentally, I realize I'm hurting someone's feelings by writing what I've been writing, my excuse being that I'm being an equal opportunity offender in this, I am not singling out any one gender or sexual orientation, I think it's our common sorrow, so whatever someone finds hurtful, is the outcome of this actually being everyone's problem...) The forum can be like a nicer part of town or a dangerous part of town -- which would we want it to be? If it's dangerous to be whatever you are here, people who don't want to expose themselves to unprovoked attacks will leave. Did in the past and will in the future unless... well, let the ones with a finger on the demolition button sort it out. And godspeed to them too.

 

Also, sometimes I wonder if people switch genders between lives and maybe were the opposite gender in a past life and are experiencing 'growing pains' of a sort.

 

Also also: There are many men with what I've heard called 'Weak Chi' who lose essence of vitality easy, and are very dissatisfied with sexual release (like myself), whereas there are other men who can 'go to stud' like 6 times a day every day and not blink an eye - maintaining extreme drive and ambition. Could be genetics. Also I agree that there are strange things going on in certain western countries which seemingly lead towards feminization of males - plastics in the water, hormones, early puberty in females, etc. Illuminati conspiracy theories intended to make people sheeple and turn men into boys and women into sexpots....all sorts of weird things in movies (like Disney)...very interesting stuff. Is the percentage of gay people higher in western countries higher? Or is it just kept more undercover in other countries. Hard to tell - all these conspiracy theories flying around, but I don't have time to dig deep because I am trying to do other things. Still it is good to know what poisons and propaganda there is to cause manipulation in broad society.

[Marblehead]

In response to that post I must say that I do NOT look at men who wear a bikini or short skirt.

[3bob]

Could be useful. I'd find it exciting to see a bunch of material gathered in one place fort either gender..

 

hell, unless I'm invited to a woman's sub-forum for some good reason I'm not intruding. (and there is already tons of stuff floating around in the rest of the forums for us guys.

[Songtsan]

Its wonderful, your championing voice have yielded fruit. Seemingly.

 

Time will tell... Tao Bums in 5 years... will it be exactly like what it is today, or will there will be 2 separate wings, each concerned with their own kind? Im imagining, based on current trends, that the slightest whisper from one side to the other will be deemed suspect. Is any of this even remotely close to resembling a pioneering of new understandings for both men and women members here, im wondering, or are these sighs of relief a little premature? Time will tell...

 

I sincerely hope this push for some exclusivity will work, for the sake of everyone's progress, if it can be called that. Maybe it will create a bigger chasm, who knows. At the same time, im also wondering what all the fuss is about -- was there really any forceful suppression of women members here wanting to have their own cultivation corner? It could have been easily achieved, even in the PP section, no?

 

Reminds me a little of the sewing clubs formed across the US years ago. That movement instigated a sudden thousand-fold increase in divorce rates all over America & even Europe, always the follower of American trends. Much to the glee of the lawyers, and their lawyers, of course, many of whom have gone on to build burgeoning practices with million-dollar annual profit increase, all thanks to Mrs. Jones, who sincerely believed she felt better in the sewing club than at home. Funny thing is, there was the believe at that time that it was the men and their love of manly pursuits which was the primary motivating factor that forced these clubs into existence. Kind of like a similar tune being sung here, no? Or maybe its just me seeing things. Hmm.

 

Or we could also have corners written by females for males on how to deal with females sexually/socially/energetically, and vice versa....Books written by men for men on how to engage sexually with females could be slanted and so forth.

[liminal_luke]

This post has brought out everyone's torches.

 

This carrying of torches, however justified or intelligent it may seem - these are the prison bars.

 

I like this post, and certainly feel it applies to me. ( I won't presume to say for anybody else.) I've gotten quite caught up in the drama of this thread the last few days, and it's been a little destabilizing. No big deal perhaps, but not what I hope to get out of Taobums. Not saying it's not a "good" thread. Looks like a dedicated space for discussion of women's cultivation has come out of it, and everybody--including myself--seems to think that's a good thing.

 

It's just that I've gone on a mini emotional roller coaster. At one point I kind of attacked Atherous whose posts I generally like and agree with. I also went off on a rant against the "homosexuals are born that way argument" that was used by Seth, in a very well-meaning way, just a few posts back. Both of those posts I really liked when I wrote them and judging by the "likes" I got seemed well-received. Yet afterwards they left me a little unbalanced. Did I put my desire to make a (clever) point ahead of my desire to get along with other bums?

 

Just some thoughts. Anyway, thank you Spotless.

 

Liminal

Edited August 31, 2014 by liminal_luke

[Aetherous]

I'm not sure if you edited your post after the fact, or not (too busy/lazy to go back and find out)...but it's not like we'd stop getting along just because you posted what you did. It's all good. I understand the thing about making a good point that's well liked, but still somehow feels wrong to have done it. Just because a majority of people like something, does not make it right. Just because it's for the greater good, doesn't mean it's also for the lesser good. Not that any of us has to be right or good all of the time, in order to get along, or to be right or good people. Hope that makes sense.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Aetherous

[Songtsan]

In response to that post I must say that I do NOT look at men who wear a bikini or short skirt.

 

I do if they are hot...I say, "You go boy, you got it going on!"

 

 

How manly do you guys think I am in this photo? Do I express my Yang-ness?

 

Let's all take pictures of ourselves dressed as the opposite gender and see if that works to break the ice...

 

I can't wait to see Marblehead in a short skirt!

Edited August 31, 2014 by Songtsan

[Nungali]

I do if they are hot...I say, "You go boy, you got it going on!"

 

 

How manly do you guys think I am in this photo? Do I express my Yang-ness?

 

Let's all take pictures of ourselves dressed as the opposite gender and see if that works to break the ice...

 

I can't wait to see Marblehead in a short skirt!

 

I just thought I would copy that before you edit it

[Nungali]

Actually 'guys' if you want to sneak into the upcoming womens TBforum , there is no need to dress up ...

 

we cant see you you know .

 

Just select woman on your profile page .... sheesh ....

[Rara]

Sun Buer

St. Teresa of Avila

2.

 

Vs a worldwide boys club of figureheads...

 

Edit: Not belittling your point, just reinforcing mine

Edited August 31, 2014 by Rara

[Seth Ananda]

Men dominate the majority of philosophies and religions...it is very difficult to find a reverse of this.

 

We can name so many male philosphers, religious figureheads, "masters" etc. Someone find me a female of the sort and let me eat my hat!

 

This is the nature, and it is sad. I have no solutions at this point, only observations, but I'll have a think and get back to y'all!

I'm curious how you mean 'this is the nature'..

 

Are you implying women are not as advanced as men 'naturally', {which is pretty much what I refer to as hate speech} or are you referring to the 'nature' of things as they currently stand/seem to be, or something entirely different?

 

Remember that in the past it was much harder or often totally socially unacceptable for women to be teachers, hold any position of power or even to be educated.. In that light, its hardly surprising that the spiritual and intellectual fields 'seem' to be dominated by men.

I say 'seem' because who knows how many great women there have been in these fields, that simply never got to speak in front of the masses, run the temples, have their reincarnations looked for and so on...

[C T]

I'm curious how you mean 'this is the nature'..

 

Are you implying women are not as advanced as men 'naturally', {which is pretty much what I refer to as hate speech} or are you referring to the 'nature' of things as they currently stand/seem to be, or something entirely different?

 

Remember that in the past it was much harder or often totally socially unacceptable for women to be teachers, hold any position of power or even to be educated.. In that light, its hardly surprising that the spiritual and intellectual fields 'seem' to be dominated by men.

I say 'seem' because who knows how many great women there have been in these fields, that simply never got to speak in front of the masses, run the temples, have their reincarnations looked for and so on...

Bear in mind the nature of women is in essence, wisdom. Wisdom seldom need a voice. Wisdom is the pinnacle of Buddhism, much revered in Taoism, analogous to water which always stays low yet dominates all life, and in Christianity, where the meek shall inherit the earth. Men who recognise that does the work of proclaiming its power, because the nature of man is to externalise and make into form, the formless.

 

* the 'meek' as i interpret it are those who know but don't speak. Again, the wise, the women. Not saying the women per se will by default inherit earth, but the representation of the Feminine, which is wisdom, will. True wisdom is free of gender, but women sages seldom find it necessary to loudly proclaim their realisations. They do it mainly within the household. A peaceful and prosperous home, there is always a wise woman behind it.

Edited August 31, 2014 by C T