Women & TTB

[C T]

I've often wondered why there appears to be a woman in the banner, hiding behind a tree. The figure in 'crane spreads wings' posture seems male to me (although could be female).

 

The figure hiding behind the tree and the pack of wolves looks like she's wearing a skirt (although it could be a Scottish dude). And she looks like maybe she's hiding from the wolves.

 

Is there something subliminal going on in the banner, or what?

She is exchanging her Wisdom essence, represented by her stillness, with the male, in dynamic movement (representing Method). The wolves symbolise obstacles.

 

The one bird in flight represents two wings in union, which is necessary as nature intends, before it can fly.

 

Thats my take anyway.

[MooNiNite]

I've often wondered why there appears to be a woman in the banner, hiding behind a tree. The figure in 'crane spreads wings' posture seems male to me (although could be female).

 

The figure hiding behind the tree and the pack of wolves looks like she's wearing a skirt (although it could be a Scottish dude). And she looks like maybe she's hiding from the wolves.

 

Is there something subliminal going on in the banner, or what?

haha.

 

they are both wearing like tai chi uniforms i don't think it is a skirt

 

[Seth Ananda]

I am a member of a number of other forums, and every one has a very clear rule system.

 

If you post sexist, steryotyping, racist or homophobic bigoted shit, then you will get banned. Its that simple. One post like that, and thats it.

 

I am proud to belong to those forums. I feel slightly ashamed of belonging to this one though because of it's antiquated rules and occasional tacit support of bigotry.

I keep coming back cause I have some friends here.

 

Sean is part of the problem, though. In a shocking thread full of homophobia and bigotry, he got upset at me for saying TTB's was supporting hate speech by refusing to moderate it.

He asked to see the hate speech. I showed him the whole thread, which was full of "gays are unnatural predators who wank to much," and he couldn't see it. Said I was exaggerating. lol.

[Aetherous]

Seems to me that TTB is comfortable for women, since there are numerous ones which stick around for years and do well here.

 

 

So I view this all as being very inaccurate, and overly PC, to the point where it might prove destructive to the forum.

I hope this feeling of mine isn't taken as a post which would be uncomfortable for women (I love all of our female members here). If it is, then perhaps we're all being a bit too sensitive, and need to chill out!

[C T]

Some of the most enlightening snippets i have read here have been from participants of genders other than male.

Mind you, a few animals too, of all different sizes, shapes, colours, sex...

 

[C T]

 

A good and noble friend of mine who made good many years ago in Oz.

Edited August 26, 2014 by C T

[Seth Ananda]

Seems to me that TTB is comfortable for women, since there are numerous ones which stick around for years and do well here.

 

 

So I view this all as being very inaccurate, and overly PC, to the point where it might prove destructive to the forum.

 

I hope this feeling of mine isn't taken as a post which would be uncomfortable for women (I love all of our female members here). If it is, then perhaps we're all being a bit too sensitive, and need to chill out!

Being one of the people who has promoted homophobia here over the years I am not surprised you find the Overly PC direction uncomfortable.

 

As for Women, just read BKA's first response. I have invited a number of female friends here over the years, and none stayed longer than a few days. Feedback ranged from far too much sexism, disembodied eggheadism, racism, or its a sheltered workshop for sexually maladjusted little boys..

Weirdly, all the women I know seem to be put off by any kind of bigotry. {must be their undeveloped submissive nature}

 

 

Anyone who thinks that proper 21st century guidelines and rules on hate speech will be destructive to the forum, is either a bigot themselves, or has never visited one of the many well running forums anywhere else where they have an actual social conscience.

 

Allowing hate speech is not protecting freedom of speech. It is allowing bullies and bigots to dominate a shared forum, with members from all over the world.

People everywhere can say what they want anyway, but a Forum can run just fine by saying you may not say that here.

You may not denigrate women, blacks, gays... here. It will not be tolerated.

 

That is ensuring a clear welcoming and honouring space for our brothers and sisters.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Seth Ananda

[BaguaKicksAss]

It's legitimately tough knowing where to draw the line. Personally, I'd love to permanently throw out everyone who offends me but I also believe that bums (and in particular yours truly) have to take some responsibility for their sensitivities.

 

Case in point: Some years ago a very few respected teacher and member of this forum made the statement that gay males could never become immortal. Many agreed with him then, and, I've little doubt that many would agree with this sentiment today. To me it was every bit as offensive as if he'd said the same thing about women or blacks; more actually, since it hit me personally.

 

I wish a moderator had stepped in and banned him and his supporters forever and ever. Didn't happen. And as much as the whole thread had me in a tizzy, I do think maybe there ought to be room for debate on the subject. Or maybe not.

 

A recently suspended member said, among other things, that different races have different strengths and weaknesses. Is this sentiment taboo or no? And if he voiced a similar sentiment about gender...?

 

Liminal

 

In a situation like this, as long as he was saying it respectfully, I would hope that a few members would let him know how closed minded and outdated, and disrespectful of a view that is, even though they are his beleifs. I mean just explaining it to him, instead of telling him he sucks for it. This is sort of what I would hope would happen in general when certain groups of people are stereotyped against or trash talked. Works better than a ban, if they are a contributing member, imo.

 

On a side note, it's pretty sad that people still feel that way in this day and age.

 

Did I ever mention that all our neighbors hate us because we are the only white people in the neighborhood, and trash talk us as well as treat us as poorly as they can (but within decent boundaries at least?) To me, all this us vs them stuff is so odd. Fortunately I can just laugh at it. I did finally stop waving hello to one of them though after they told our friends we are no good people. I was proving a point.

[ralis]

Intelligent persons know and understand where hate and bigoted speech lead. History is replete with the consequences.

Edited August 27, 2014 by ralis

[Aetherous]

Being one of the people who has promoted homophobia here over the years I am not surprised you find the Overly PC direction uncomfortable.

 

I do not see how I did this. And if it's true, that's all way in the past.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Aetherous

[Aetherous]

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Edited August 27, 2014 by Aetherous

[Aetherous]

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Edited August 27, 2014 by Aetherous

[Creation]

Seth,

 

While we're venting, here's a reflection for you.

 

You come across to me as incredibly judgmental and condescending. Your energy feels downright hostile, like a tiger ready to tear to shreds anyone who doesn't think like him, and is strongly threatening to me personally. Maybe that's because, despite not being racist or homophobic, I'm the kind of sexually maladjusted egghead your female friends complained about, and that I get the impression that you despise me as well.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Creation

[Aetherous]

Yes. It was an incredibly unwelcoming and unfriendly post. Not all of our members think or feel that way about other members here. I'm sure very few have those kind of biases. At least personally, I'm very fond of literally everyone, and would not want to see a single person leave. We're all like different spices, adding our unique flavor to the mix, that is this forum.

[Seth Ananda]

And if it's true, that's all way in the past.

Thats good to hear

[BaguaKicksAss]

Just to clarify, I'm definitely not personally thinking or talking about banning folks, or even suspensions. It's pretty friendly and low key here lately which is nice. More of an awareness and open discussion sort of thing (unless someone does such things all the time, or to extremes).

 

Btw to the post above, I agree, our members are awesome . I like them all too, and miss the ones who have left (though OK maybe don't miss the posting style of a couple of them lol, but the ones with the most belligerent posting styles also seemed to have well thought out posts at other times. :>)

[Seth Ananda]

I'm sure very few have those kind of biases. At least personally, I'm very fond of literally everyone, and would not want to see a single person leave. We're all like different spices, adding our unique flavor to the mix, that is this forum.

 

Oh yes its all so happy over here, thats why there are so few women members, gay members, and members from other racial demographics...

Its not at all a very white male school yard bullying atmosphere here.

 

Here, being a woman does not mean your yin and therefore subservient, a money grabbing whore, and someone who men are entitled to sexually or else are made responsible for a killing spree.

 

Here, being black does not mean your a different more animalistic species to the rest of us...

 

Here, being gay does not mean that your an unnatural pervert, or only gay cause you masturbate too much, or only gay cause you want to be rather than because you were born that way, or unable to cultivate highly...

 

 

Well. While many here thankfully would disagree with those sentiments, the rules continue to allow these sentiments to be expressed.

 

Therefore, those sentiments are in the atmosphere here, and thus women, gay people and other racial groups tend to stay away...

[Seth Ananda]

Seth,

 

While we're venting, here's a reflection for you.

 

You come across to me as incredibly judgmental and condescending. Your energy feels downright hostile, like a tiger ready to tear to shreds anyone who doesn't think like him, and is strongly threatening to me personally. Maybe that's because, despite not being racist or homophobic, I'm the kind of sexually maladjusted egghead your female friends complained about, and that I get the impression that you despise me as well.

Nothing against egg heads. I was just giving feedback from what I have heard.

 

But, I am openly hostile to any bigotry against people who are not harming others, and are the way they are, because they were born that way. I will not stand by and watch people be made to feel shit, or have their self esteem damaged by ignorant wankers.

 

The ugliness on this forum that regularly rears its head is disgusting, most recently being:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35995-the-cult-of-racism/

 

 

It poisons the atmosphere here still, as it has done for years. This thread asked how can we Improve the situation?

 

So far myself and a few others have reflected on this and offered what we see.

 

A male or two have stepped in with don't be so sensitive, everything is fine here. ~ Because it is fine for them.

 

 

 

'Privilege' is believing something is not a problem, because its not a problem for you personally.

[Aetherous]

and thus women, gay people and other racial groups tend to stay away...

 

Except that we have a pretty great representation of women, gay, transgender, "other racial groups" here...for an internet forum that's about Taoism and stuff, which is just a bunch of strangers.

 

It's really the medium of communication and what's being communicated that gives us our demographics here. I tend to think all people are respected...except when there is heated debate. At least to me, wishing for other members to be banned is 1000x more hateful than what z00se said recently, for instance.

 

Anyway, already said this (that this discussion is way too PC). It's the opposite of what I want, to continue in a back and forth disagreement, so I'm out of here.

[Aetherous]

Something to think about...you know the racial and gender group most badmouthed at this forum? White males. I won't report your post, Seth...but I will next time.

[Seth Ananda]

Except that we have a pretty great representation of women, gay, transgender, "other racial groups" here...for an internet forum that's about Taoism and stuff, which is just a bunch of strangers.

I disagree. This would not have come up as a question if representation was so 'great'. We could easily have a lot more women here at the very least.

 

It's really the medium of communication and what's being communicated that gives us our demographics here. I tend to think all people are respected...except when there is heated debate. At least to me, wishing for other members to be banned is 1000x more hateful than what z00se said recently, for instance.

Yes, wanting to make an atmosphere where all, are and feel welcome, is very very hateful... Also, the banning would not have to be retroactive. Strong new rules would pull everyone into line from now... And make a much more welcoming site.

 

'Mike130something or others', quote was the worst...

 

Anyway, already said this (that this discussion is way too PC). It's the opposite of what I want, to continue in a back and forth disagreement, so I'm out of here.

 

P.C. is very important. Anti P.C. is usually just bigotry.

 

Where schools ban hate speech, they get called P.C. yet they are steadily increasing safety for women/gay/race members. This is a good thing and TTB's are way behind.

[Enishi]

Something to think about...you know the racial and gender group most badmouthed at this forum? White males.

 

I've noticed the same thing, though it's usually white straight males talking about how horrible/sexist/racist other white straight males are. The self-guilt many Westerners carry is toxic.

[3bob]

Wow... I haven't kept track of a lot of the stuff in particular like some have, although I've seen some of it and can see why there are not many ladies here who I tend to think are generally more kind and sociable compared to a lot of us guys.

 

And to the gals that have stuck it out here thanks for your often good and balanced influences!

 

Om

[Seth Ananda]

edit: While not meant to be targeting Aetherous specifically I do think its an important point, that fits whoever it happens to fit.

 

Lets not forget that some people want the right to be bigots, and to express it online.

 

They will fight against any change that will curtail their rights to spread their bigotry.

 

No one else will.

 

edit: anywhere there are people attempting to create social justice/reform, there will be others trying to oppose them, generally bigots.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Seth Ananda

[Aetherous]

Lets not forget that some people want the right to be bigots, and to express it online.

 

They will fight against any change that will curtail their rights to spread their bigotry.

 

No one else will.

 

I take this as you calling me a bigot (since I was the one who said this is all getting way too PC), and am reporting your post for slander/insult/harassment.

 

To be clear...the forum rules already prevent actual bigotry. It's all good in the hood, man.