Rare Martial Arts (post them)

[C T]

Hats off to you, Mr Nungali, for your MA zip!

[Nungali]

Zip ?

 

 

Do you still have contact with above friend, or does he have a history page up somewhere ?

 

Oh yeah .... someone mentioned a mad possessed tiger monk up there ... anyone ever seen one go off when they get the tattoos ? I saw a doco of one getting a huge tiger and a sutra spell across his back ... at the end he went crazy, took about 5 guys to hold him down .

Edited August 31, 2014 by Nungali

[C T]

Zip ?

my slang for 'quick wit' or 'good stuff'

 

wrt your posts above, both applies!

[Michael Sternbach]

I found him interesting ; he follows some principles and moves that look familiar to me ( aside from the obvious 'practicality' its more the 'application style') ; instantly taking or forcing the rear 45 deg, blind sides, the little 'double jump kick' for some low kicks, 'opportunism' and flow, the 'natural style' ( multiple movements within what others might see as a 'load up' - and the complex bunkai within form moves ( that are not normally understood in many types of 'karate' ), many of the takedowns, etc.

 

I also distilled such natural/intuitive principles out of a number of different martial arts styles that I studied (and in some cases, just carefully watched for reasons of analysis). Yes, Raul is quite adept at applying a number of them. Only, I have a problem with the "hit 'em ten times in less than a second" approach. As there is always a trade-off between speed and power.

 

Also, going to the ground applying an arm-lock is a "no, no" in a realistic scenario, imo. For two reasons:

1. Where do you go from there?
2. Even though it may be nice to have the adversary momentarily secured this way, what is not so nice is his buddies stomping your head into the pavement meanwhile.

, I found my previous Aikido very helpful to study the style I did and the style when introduced into aikido was devastating (although the instructor said that wasnt the way to do aikido - too ' viscous' or something ... but then some seniors turned up at his club, including his old instructor and a well known and highly respected senior - all from the same style - were doing it too - we must be 'old school' .... but no kicks ... 'Aikido does not kick' <shrug> )

 

When I was into Aikido (while practising Shotokan at the same time), I once asked a senior about kicks. He answered, they wouldn't need to know how to kick in Aikido as they only train defences against kicks (on the advanced levels). I asked him how they could tell that the defences worked, if the attacks didn't? I can't recall his answer (safe to say, it was not really worth remembering).

 

It could be my imagination or wishful thinking, but it seems reminiscent of Mr. Nishihira's form , in some ways, which was taught to him by Hohan Soken (mentioned above) . What makes Soken style different ( and especially in the past, there seems more of this out there now) is that he left Okinawa before WW II and what happened back at home that influenced and changed karate did not influence him, so he had an 'older and unique' version (some thought) than the beast that emerged via JKA (based on the 'deity' Funakoshi ); loss of teachers and traditions due to the devastation in Okinawa, the resultant victorious service men wanting to be taught martial arts by their defeated enemies and the dynamic that resulted in , the transportation to Japan ( Funakoshi again) as a primary school PE system ( and how that changed it) and then being turned into a sport ( more changes, restrictions, adaptations, etc) .

 

In fairness, it was not so much Gichin Funakoshi who turned Shotokan into a sport but his son Gigo, together with other seniors. The old man was actually quite shocked about some of the changes. Certainly, Funakoshi Gichin's Karate-do Kyohan is pretty much old style Okinawan Karate - which made most of it quite unintelligible to me as long as I only knew JKA style - most of their highly decorated masters obviously have no idea about the real kata bunkai.

 

Parallel developments can be seen in other styles/martial arts as well, such as in the transition from Okinawan Goju-ryu to its Japanese variant, from Old Yang style Taiji to modern Yang style etc.

 

However, people like George Dillman, Evan Pantazi, George Alexander, Erle Montaigue and others help to bring back what has been thrown out previously. I consider this an evolutionary step in martial arts, and it's very intriguing to see.

[Unseen_Abilities]

I saw an old Korean tiger style performed once by the fellow who intro'd me to bagua. In his words it was 'proto-internal' and that the primary strategy was point grabbing and compression. Pretty intense but he refused to teach the entire system so I wasn't really interested in spending the time with it.

Very interested in the Koren tiger style - any more info on it?

[Unseen_Abilities]

I remember seeing a book on Amazon about Aiki-ground fighting. From memory it wasn't about suwari-waza, but rather Aikido applied to wrestling style situations. I'll have to buy a copy of that one actually.

[Unseen_Abilities]

Here it is: http://thinkingmartial.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/5-stars-for-aikido-ground-fighting.html?m=1

[Andrei]

I bet you never heard of this one (unless you saw the show on tv):

 

 

[Nungali]

I also distilled such natural/intuitive principles out of a number of different martial arts styles that I studied (and in some cases, just carefully watched for reasons of analysis).

 

I have seen the same principles applied in Medieval re-enactment battle ... we are built pretty much the same way and our bodies move the same way (basically).

 

Yes, Raul is quite adept at applying a number of them. Only, I have a problem with the "hit 'em ten times in less than a second" approach. As there is always a trade-off between speed and power.

 

That part was not one of the familar ones ... it usually went; evade, block / cover, hit (sting, whip, distraction, etc) then lock, manipulate control, then deliver the end one... no need for flurry of hits.

 

 

Also, going to the ground applying an arm-lock is a "no, no" in a realistic scenario, imo. For two reasons:

1. Where do you go from there?
2. Even though it may be nice to have the adversary momentarily secured this way, what is not so nice is his buddies stomping your head into the pavement meanwhile.

 

Same here too , no going to ground like that ... fighting 'from' the ground in a very low stance / squat, or , one takedown, the arm or whatever would be broken in the process of the person taken down for a low kick to the eye or throat (with big toe).

 

He was always ; ' relax, relax ... whipping movement ... natural ... alignment ...'

 

When I was into Aikido (while practising Shotokan at the same time),

 

I traine Shotokan under Frank Nowak when I was 17 , Frank was the first higher than Shodan Non-Japanese ( German) the JKA would award a Sandan Grading ... they made him wait and punish him a long time ... his wife told me he would have to stand in formal ZenKutsu Dashi while they front kicked his stomach ... he would maintain the stance but his feet would keep sliding along the floor from the force , eventually until he came to the wall. They eventually gave up and gave it to him.

 

he did exactly what they feared, years later - split off and formed his own ( and maybe didnt pay 'dues tax' to Japan )

 

Crazy instructor ... but taught good 'form' ... obsessed ... I would say.

 

I once asked a senior about kicks. He answered, they wouldn't need to know how to kick in Aikido as they only train defences against kicks (on the advanced levels). I asked him how they could tell that the defences worked, if the attacks didn't? I can't recall his answer (safe to say, it was not really worth remembering).

 

Legs can be treated as arms in a way ... those type of throws are really bad for the kicker ( Soken style - not really kicking above the waist.)

 

Recently I worked on my bunkai for 'Nabuti Nogata' ( sic ?) ... figured out how a move we were taught (that seemed BS) could be applied against a staff strike and a disarm ... also works against a straight punch ... I tried it against a kick and it works as a groin strike and throw ( throwing by leaving the leg while still holding the testicles ( no ... in training I throw by grabbing the baggy pants crutch) ... but because it using the leg instead of the arm or staff for leverage --- its deadly!

 

In fairness, it was not so much Gichin Funakoshi who turned Shotokan into a sport but his son Gigo, together with other seniors.

 

Yeah, I should have been clearer ... I also mean everyone else that did it too eg. no kicking or grabbing the nuts and throwing people by them ... really ! (Comes in with an open crutch to deliver a roundhouse kick to the head. ... some even do 'full contact' with no head punches ... I wouldnt like to get into that habit.

 

The old man was actually quite shocked about some of the changes. Certainly, Funakoshi Gichin's Karate-do Kyohan is pretty much old style Okinawan Karate -

 

Noooo ! Funakoshi was after the first corruption, a generation after ... he got a bit of dis in Japan when called out to show the Bunkai from his Kata and couldnt / wouldnt show them (apologies if I got that wrong and that was someone after or contemporary).

 

which made most of it quite unintelligible to me as long as I only knew JKA style -

 

It was unintelligible to more than just you (in retrospect) but who was allowed to ask such questions or make such suggestions back then?

 

"Do you understand ? " ... < pssst> ... what did he just say ?" - "Dunno "

 

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?"

 

" USS Sensai ! "

 

most of their highly decorated masters obviously have no idea about the real kata bunkai.

 

They were never taught them nor really encouraged to think for themselves.

 

A while back people started to put things together ( training, common sense, body mechanics, Japanese culture and psychology and the place a lot of it was developed for ( outside environment and in the Place of the King ... even its structure had an effect on what they learnt and practised. And here is a hint about the lack of self defense principles in some 'karate' ... it wasnt about self defense ('temple style' that is ... as opposed to Seito - family style ... or normal style) it was the corrupted temple style that a lot of Shotokan was based on ... and that is not primarily about self defence - it was about save the king ... at all costs (dont forget they were unarmed and at the time of Capt Perry and before had to face guns being bought into interviews with the king. They were masters of tactics as well. The Visiting naval officers probably had no idea that the two scribes and scholars either side of King Sho ; one could crush a green bamboo culm in his bare hand and the other was Bushi Matsamura.

 

Here is a good starting point to show these realisations starting to appear in Shotokan ( the above triad; the King and the two bodyguards are on the cover)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Shotokans-Secret-Expanded-Edition-Fighting/dp/0897501888

 

 

Parallel developments can be seen in other styles/martial arts as well, such as in the transition from Okinawan Goju-ryu to its Japanese variant, from Old Yang style Taiji to modern Yang style etc.

 

However, people like George Dillman, Evan Pantazi, George Alexander, Erle Montaigue and others help to bring back what has been thrown out previously. I consider this an evolutionary step in martial arts, and it's very intriguing to see.

 

For a back ground on why it occurred there are some articles from serious scholars on aikiweb that analyse the effect Japanese cultural mores and taboos effected development and 'dissemination' .

 

(Last time I linked to that I nearly started a fight ... okay , I DID start a fight as someone said I was being disrespectful to peoples 'Masters' - but they have been kicked out since ... present company seems a lot more open to ... open investigation

[Nungali]

.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Nungali

[David 62]

Hello, I'm not so sure if the styles I train in would be consider rare, but they are a little less mainstream. My primary system is Isshinryu, which a karate-jitsu (first from Hanshi Albert Mady and now from Hanshi Chris Thomas), also Cross-train in Alambra style Arnis-de-mano (have several books autographed by Dante Alambra the current lead man in the system), Modern Arnis and have had opportunity to train with Remy Presas Jr. a very nice fellow, A long time back I trained in a style of Kalai, forget the name, with master Soney Sanata, Also trained in a hybrid style of Ju-jitsu with the late Shihan Steven Prince. As well as numerous other systems and styles. And am now interoperating Kyusho jitsu and Tuite Jitsu into what I have already learned. It is very exciting stuff. Just as an aside... All systems have the potential of being deadly, there are only so many ways you can manipulate the human frame, so, there is a lot of overlap between systems.

Just train clean, try and be a good person.

I like this clip a lot.

 

 

Neither of the people are me.... just like the clip.

 

[David 62]

Sorry interoperating should be incorporating auto correct and dyslexia, a dreadful mix.

[Nungali]

I bet you never heard of this one (unless you saw the show on tv):

 

That was cool - thanks .

[lifeforce]

1. Dai Style Xinyi

2. Xinyiliuhequan

 

These are two devastating arts I would come out of martial arts retirement to learn. Unfortunately I don't know of any teachers or practitioners here in England.

[C T]

Zip ?

 

 

Do you still have contact with above friend, or does he have a history page up somewhere ?

We meet frequently for tea & chat. Their second child is due very soon.

[BaguaKicksAss]

One day we drove past a small festival in town. It was a group of people from India (first generation who have moved here) doing martial arts demonstrations with those ever so awesome giant swords and such . Hadn't seen that before.

[C T]

Kendo:

 

 

 

 

Iaido:

 

 

 

 

Can anyone input on the difference between the 2?

[GrandmasterP]

There's only so much that anyone can do with a sword, whatever the style.

Shotgun beats sword as sword defeats knife and so on down the weapons list.

Edited August 31, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Dainin]

Liu He Ba Fa

 

 

 

 

Taiyi Swimming Dragon

 

 

 

 

Wuji Quan

 

[Michael Sternbach]

There's only so much that anyone can do with a sword, whatever the style.

Shotgun beats sword as sword defeats knife and so on down the weapons list.

 

Not always! Watch from 2:30 on and see for yourself...

 

[thelerner]

I like this clip a lot.

 

Neither of the people are me.... just like the clip.

Nice technique, great spirit. Thanks for sharing the clip.

[Nungali]

Kendo:

 

 

Whats going on at the end .... kendo wrestling ... in kendo armour and hakama ?

 

 

Anyway, I'll take a stab at the difference ... generally ; club / cut

[Nungali]

There's only so much that anyone can do with a sword, whatever the style.

Shotgun beats sword as sword defeats knife and so on down the weapons list.

 

You left out hand gun

 

[C T]

Another rare enough CMA style.

 

[C T]

Extreme internal Qi demo:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmdO8Kdbym0