DZOGCHEN & QUANTUM MECHANICS

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[asunthatneversets]

And what does any of this have to do with Dzogchen? Oh that's right... nothing.

 

All this thread has accomplished is demonstrating that unqualified individuals can parade erratic theories (which speak volumes about ther general incompetence) as somehow valid, and some people will fall for it.

[ralis]

And what does any of this have to do with Dzogchen? Oh that's right... nothing.

 

All this thread has accomplished is demonstrating that unqualified individuals can parade erratic theories (which speak volumes about ther general incompetence) as somehow valid, and some people will fall for it.

 

Once again you come on this thread with nothing of substance to add.

[doc benway]

I think asunthatneversets is adding something very valuable to this thread - a sober perspective from someone with understanding of and experience in the Dzogchen system, something the OP completely lacks and others seem to have no respect for. I don't begrudge the OP from indulging himself, and anyone else that feels like going along for the ride, in speculation and gratuitous assertions but it is important to ground the discussion in the facts regarding the nature of Dzogchen, if that is a part of the premise of the discussion.

 

Or not - we could just as well begin discussing the 57th level of Mo Pai with as much credibility as what is being tossed around about Dzogchen - how valuable would that be?

[ralis]

I think asunthatneversets is adding something very valuable to this thread - a sober perspective from someone with understanding of and experience in the Dzogchen system, something the OP completely lacks and others seem to have no respect for. I don't begrudge the OP from indulging himself, and anyone else that feels like going along for the ride, in speculation and gratuitous assertions but it is important to ground the discussion in the facts regarding the nature of Dzogchen, if that is a part of the premise of the discussion.

 

Or not - we could just as well begin discussing the 57th level of Mo Pai with as much credibility as what is being tossed around about Dzogchen - how valuable would that be?

 

I disagree. His post is a vacant critique that has no value. He doesn't elaborate on "erratic theories", "unqualified individuals" and how those categories are related to Dzogchen. Asunthatneversets narrative always appeals to the higher authoritarian while demeaning others that want to discuss this important subject.

Edited September 8, 2014 by ralis

[asunthatneversets]

 

Once again you come on this thread with nothing of substance to add.

Hard to add substance where none can be found to begin with.

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[thelerner]

I have already done my tests, which certify my intelligence in many areas (and therefore my "general competence") as "far above average".

 

How about your "general competence"? Have you any scientific evidence that yours is even approximately as high as mine?

 

You are completely unable to follow my reasoning and it seems completely absurd to you.

Under the premise of the scientific evidence for my "far above average" reasoning ability, this is evidence for your lacking reasoning ability and your lacking general competence.

 

Your opinion can therefore be seen generally as unimportant and completely meaningless.

or in a more humorous way:

 

though Wolverine probably was born with claws though

 

Are we really pulling out the 'I'm right, because I'm so smart, argument?'

 

Asunthatneverrests's opinion is important and meaningful because he's a long time practitioner of Dzoghen. Imo in a real discussion such a person's opinion can't be intelligently dismissed. You may not agree with it, but its important to listen to people with a vast amount of experience. I tend to give them more credence then nonpracticing theoreticians.

 

I also wonder.. is rainbow body really the goal of Dzoghen? Is it about gaining a rare super power? Or gaining wisdom, truths that allows you to live a better life?

Edited September 8, 2014 by thelerner

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[ralis]

Asunthatneverrests's opinion is important and meaningful because he's a long time practitioner of Dzoghen. Imo in a real discussion such a person's opinion can't be intelligently dismissed. You may not agree with it, but its important to listen to people with a vast amount of experience. I tend to give them more credence then nonpracticing theoreticians.

 

I also wonder.. is rainbow body really the goal of Dzoghen? Is it about gaining a rare super power? Or gaining wisdom, truths that allows you to live a better life?

 

I happen to be a long time practitioner. I took my first retreat with Norbu in June of 1989 and went on a solitary retreat for two weeks the following spring. Asunthaneversets was most likely not even born or a toddler in diapers. Most likely he has never been on a real solitary retreat out in the middle of nowhere, but I have. I don't go where somebody is going to hold my hand or give me cookies for snacks, but find lonely places that are not safe from wild animals or even rattle snakes. These places must have clear views of the sky for engaging in the practice of skygazing.

 

He offers nothing, but cut/paste opinions with no real world experiences.

 

Here is one favorite place which is on the other side of Death Valley California in the Panamint Valley. The ridges are perfect for practice.

 

The first photo is a view from Dante's peak in Death Valley which is another lonely place for practice. These places are very remote and highly recommended for practice.

 

For some reason some of the images disappeared so I posted some different ones.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2014 by ralis

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[GrandmasterP]

Seems to me that Dzogchen has taken over from MoPai as the number one contentious topic here on TTB.

Why?

If someone likes Dzogchen and enjoys doing it then good luck to them.

Just get on with it and shut the feck up as far as boring everyone else with your hobby horse.

Or...

Maybe they like arguing more than they like Dzogchen.

There are some strange folks about and no mistake.

Edited September 9, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[GrandmasterP]

Yep.

Very contentious subject is Dzogchen.

I deliberately avoided naming names in my previous post Zoom.

However, as you have been kind enough to reply I repeat my good wishes insofar as...

If Dzogchen suits you then you enjoy doing it and that in good health.

Edited September 9, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Chang]

Moderator Message

Just a friendly reminder to keep to topic if that is your wish or else ignore this thread if you do not like the way the discussion is going. Trading insults, however gently, with other Bums is not productive.

Thanks for your understanding.

Chang for Mod Team

[dust]

That gives an excellent scientific explanation of the "Body of Light" phenomena of Dzogchen, Taoism, Sufism and Orthodox Christianity. In these cases what is occurring is the physical body achieves such a high degree of quantum coherency, like a laser beam, that it manifests its non-local "wave state", hence its invisibility and ability to manifest in several locations at the same time, move through walls, walk on water, levitate and re-appear. That's the body phenomena.

 

This is where you lost me. Though I've heard about people manifesting themselves elsewhere, I'm not sure I believe it, and as far as I am aware, none of these other things have ever happened..

Edited September 15, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Jax]

I have two groups on FB: Quantum Dzogchen and Tao and Dzogchen. You may find some interesting stuff posted!