Divination, What do you use, what do you practice?

[thelerner]

Just curious. On the board I see tarot, astrology and Iching being used to answer questions here. I rarely use divination, tending to see its value more as a Rorschach test then future sight. As such I prefer the symbolic nature of most systems which give me food for thought.

 

What system do you use? How do you recommend its use? Lastly how has it helped you?

[Aetherous]

Sometimes, dreams.

[Michael Sternbach]

For fundamental personality and partnership analysis, medical information and general themes of a given time: Astrology.

 

For getting a better view on what's going on and what can be done about it: I-ching and Tarot (sometimes other cards as well).

 

When uncertain which of several options (e.g. vibrational remedies) to choose: Dowsing by using a pendulum.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[RiverSnake]

Ironically, many of the tagged threads are of my own creation. Lol, guess I'm a tarot addict.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited September 5, 2014 by OldChi

[thelerner]

 

When uncertain which of several options (e.g. vibrational remedies) to choose: Dowsing by using a pendulum.

Pendulum work is interesting. I tend to see it as a non psychic phenomena. That it provides access to the subconscious.

[Michael Sternbach]

Pendulum work is interesting. I tend to see it as a non psychic phenomena. That it provides access to the subconscious.

 

I would say it's intuition expressed via the body. But how does my body know what my conscious mind definitely doesn't? I'm really not sure where you would draw the line to "psychic".

[Nungali]

If you mean 'seeking knowledge of the future', I gave that up. I might use some divinatory tools however , to get deeper insight into the now.

 

Now i just live and let it unfold. Then I know what is going to happen when it happens (and Its never wrong )

 

better to make a small change, effortlessly at the source of the river and direct it where you want to go IMO

[Zhongyongdaoist]

As I noted a long time ago:

Any well formed symbol system is useful for both passive uses, like divination, in which it reflects a train of events and for active purposes like magic, where it can be used to influence a train of events. The Tarot is excellent as a magical system, the average "magician" can hardly dream of all that is concealed in Western Geomancy as a form of magic, the same goes for Yi Jing, Mah Jong, and many other systems like that. I have experience with several of them, some for decades. They are worth the time and effort investigating.

Someone seriously interested in magic owes it to their "future" to become both good at divination and to figure out how to apply those systems to magical practice. I would particularly like to emphasize the importance of Geomancy in practical magic. Thanks to Aleister Crowley this system, which was a foundation art of traditional magical practice, doesn't get anywhere near the respect or attention that it deserves and which it will repay handsomely.

[beyonder]

Just curious. On the board I see tarot, astrology and Iching being used to answer questions here. I rarely use divination, tending to see its value more as a Rorschach test then future sight. As such I prefer the symbolic nature of most systems which give me food for thought.

 

What system do you use? How do you recommend its use? Lastly how has it helped you?

 

I don't cast hexagrams when posting, unless I explicitly state so. Using the I Ching purely for divination is a waste, in my opinion. Actually studying the text and system is where it's at. If one wishes to be strictly rational about it, the study is good for ones moral development and/or understanding various situations in life better. If one wishes to be a bit more mystical, the study actually is a key to allign ones Way with the Grand Flow, so that ones life becomes effortless.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Using the I Ching purely for divination is a waste, in my opinion. Actually studying the text and system is where it's at. If one wishes to be strictly rational about it, the study is good for ones moral development and/or understanding various situations in life better. If one wishes to be a bit more mystical, the study actually is a key to allign ones Way with the Grand Flow, so that ones life becomes effortless.

 

Excellent summary and more or less what I had in mind when I wrote this:

 

Long ago I made a distinction between an Oracle and fortunetelling. The distinction arose because of my thinking about the difference between the Tarot and the Yi Jing. Generally speaking the Tarot is used to forecast future events, but the Yi Jing provides advice for behaving in a way that will produce good results, it is advice based upon an analysis of a core structure of the Cosmos with a view to "proper" behavior, but "proper" behavior in this sense always means behavior that produces good results.

 

To learn to use the Yi Jing is to learn about the core of Lǐ, 礼, often rendered as "propriety". Proper action is action that is cosmogenic, and aims to promote harmony and restore healthy order, both in the individual and his/her environment. This is what being a Jūn​zǐ, 君子, the "Superior Man" of Wilhelm/Baynes, is all about. It is about living a life from ones personal center in relation to the Absolute.

 

Of course you can also use it for magic.

[Uroboros]

 

Excellent summary and more or less what I had in mind when I wrote this:

 

 

To learn to use the Yi Jing is to learn about the core of Lǐ, 礼, often rendered as "propriety". Proper action is action that is cosmogenic, and aims to promote harmony and restore healthy order, both in the individual and his/her environment. This is what being a Jūn​zǐ, 君子, the "Superior Man" of Wilhelm/Baynes, is all about. It is about living a life from ones personal center in relation to the Absolute.

 

Of course you can also use it for magic.

 

How would you use the I Ching for magic?

 

When studying the I Ching with the goal being Li, what would you reccomend someone focus on or keep in mind?

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I don't have much time right now, but to address these quickly:

How would you use the I Ching for magic?

There are many ways that it could be used, a standard way that one would begin is by using them as "doorways" to explore the energies and connect with them. On a level of magic, each of the trigrams have correspondences classes and categories in the world, from plants, animals, people, occupations, etc. Using these as a guide one knows what Trigram to use for any particular purpose and also ritual elements that can be used to connect. The Trigrams also have connections with the Nine Stars and the Nine Stars are important in Chinese magic. Jerry Alan Johnson gives traditional "hand seals" for each of the Trigrams and I have found these to be useful ways of connecting, but of course they are not necessary.

The Hexagrams themselves can be used to describe an existing situation, either by an analysis based on ones understanding or using divination to get a description, then a Hexagram representing the desired state can be chosen and the changing lines are worked with to create a change. As a cross cultural approach the figures of Geomancy are binary also and consist of four lines, they can be used to represent the "nuclear hexagram" of any hexagram giving you an inner doorway to a situation.

There is also an interesting series of illustrations in Jou, Tsung Hwa's The Tao of I Ching, which can be explored. The limitation on these things is ones knowledge, creative imagination and technical expertise.

When studying the I Ching with the goal being Li, what would you reccomend someone focus on or keep in mind?

This would require a much longer discussion, but to give a pointer that relates to to what I said above:

喜、怒、哀、樂之未發、謂之中。發而皆中節、謂之和。中也者、天下之大本也。和也者、天下之達道也。致中和、天地位焉、萬物育焉。

When joy, anger, sorrow and pleasure have not yet arisen, it is called the Mean (中 centerness, equilibrium). When they arise to their appropriate levels, it is called “harmony” 和. The Mean is the great root of all-under-heaven. “Harmony” is the penetration of the Way through all-under-heaven. When the Mean and Harmony are actualized, Heaven and Earth are in their proper positions, and the myriad things are nourished. (Charles Muller, The Doctrine of the Mean, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

and refer you to my posts under:

Confucian Qi gong

I took my Tao Bums name, Zhongyongdaoist from the original Chinese of "The Doctrine of the Mean", Zhongyong.

[Uroboros]

I don't have much time right now, but to address these quickly:

 

 

There are many ways that it could be used, a standard way that one would begin is by using them as "doorways" to explore the energies and connect with them. On a level of magic, each of the trigrams have correspondences classes and categories in the world, from plants, animals, people, occupations, etc. Using these as a guide one knows what Trigram to use for any particular purpose and also ritual elements that can be used to connect. The Trigrams also have connections with the Nine Stars and the Nine Stars are important in Chinese magic. Jerry Alan Johnson gives traditional "hand seals" for each of the Trigrams and I have found these to be useful ways of connecting, but of course they are not necessary.

 

The Hexagrams themselves can be used to describe an existing situation, either by an analysis based on ones understanding or using divination to get a description, then a Hexagram representing the desired state can be chosen and the changing lines are worked with to create a change. As a cross cultural approach the figures of Geomancy are binary also and consist of four lines, they can be used to represent the "nuclear hexagram" of any hexagram giving you an inner doorway to a situation.

 

There is also an interesting series of illustrations in Jou, Tsung Hwa's The Tao of I Ching, which can be explored. The limitation on these things is ones knowledge, creative imagination and technical expertise.

 

 

This would require a much longer discussion, but to give a pointer that relates to to what I said above:

 

 

and refer you to my posts under:

 

Confucian Qi gong

 

I took my Tao Bums name, Zhongyongdaoist from the original Chinese of "The Doctrine of the Mean", Zhongyong.

 

What you have said regarding magic will require me to think on a bit more to have any useful questions or comments.

 

I did read the Confucian QiGong thread. Im reading the Doctrine of the Mean translation you shared.

 

It looks to be exactly what I am looking for. Both utilizing the I Ching as a means to cultivate the Proper Action.

 

I noticed that in the confucian methods they talk about Justice and Law. The Mean and the Way. Are these the same things?

 

What about Righteousness?

 

It seems to me that understanding these things are vital to practicing the path.

 

Thank you

[Zhongyongdaoist]

What you have said regarding magic will require me to think on a bit more to have any useful questions or comments.

 

I did read the Confucian QiGong thread. Im reading the Doctrine of the Mean translation you shared.

 

It looks to be exactly what I am looking for. Both utilizing the I Ching as a means to cultivate the Proper Action.

 

I noticed that in the confucian methods they talk about Justice and Law. The Mean and the Way. Are these the same things?

 

What about Righteousness?

 

It seems to me that understanding these things are vital to practicing the path.

 

Thank you

 

You are most certainly welcome.

 

Discovering the Confucian Dao was one of the happiest discoveries of my life. I wish it had made that discovery about age thirty rather than fifty! I strongly recommend the works of Tu Weiming. Especially Humanity and Self-Cultivation, which came to my hands in an odd manner, and was of inestimable benefit. I don't have time for that story now.

 

I am glad you are reading the Doctrine of the Mean, it is a wonderful book and in many ways the key to Confucian magic and Alchemy. Two things that have probably never occurred to most people. I prefer to call Zhongyong "Concentrating/focussing (on/in) the Center".

 

Good luck.

[beyonder]

When studying the I Ching with the goal being Li, what would you reccomend someone focus on or keep in mind?

 

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34461-some-of-my-favorite-parts-of-the-i-ching/#entry540065

[BaguaKicksAss]

How would you use the I Ching for magic?

 

When studying the I Ching with the goal being Li, what would you reccomend someone focus on or keep in mind?

 

If you are a Bagua practitioner, you can circle walk them . It goes far beyond that, but I only know about this via hints and impressions, so can't speak of it, but just to say that there is much to the trigrams.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

If you are a Bagua practitioner, you can circle walk them . It goes far beyond that, but I only know about this via hints and impressions, so can't speak of it, but just to say that there is much to the trigrams.

 

Yes, with Baqua Zhang you can definitely "walk the walk".

[silent thunder]

I use Norse Runes on occasion, but not as a divination source per se.

I consult them with the intention of garnering alternate perspectives on a given issue, not to find out what the outcome will be, since conditions are always in flux, but I find great value in opening up my perspective to new avenues with this method.

 

More consistently, I use druidic/shamanic animal and plant insight in the same way. When contemplating or processing a complex issue, I will often be visited by the energetic essence, or the physical presence of certain animals or plants that will carry invaluable insight based on their essential nature and how that relates to what I'm seeking input on. Each creature has an essence that conveys meaning for me and when open to the flow, will communicate with me on a very profound level. I'll set an intention to acquire more input about a given issue and then release it and open myself to the response. Nature always responds.

 

In the beginning, some twenty years ago, this started as actual physical visitations that would be startling in some way, out of place, which helped to point out the significance.

 

As my acceptance and connection to these subtle influences of intuition and interconnection deepened, the visitations have become more subtle as well. Rather than a mountain lion strolling across my path while hiking, which is decidedly rare these days... one will walk into my thought stream as I'm contemplating the issue to the same effect as if I had encountered it physically.

 

It was this consistent opening and active interplay with my environment that brought me to taoism originally.

[9th]

I think the IChing is much better used as a lens to view present situations and currents rather than as a precognitive device. It gives insight to everyday occurrences in a structured and coherent way within its own system.

 

 

For divination, I prefer to use omens occurring in the world at large.

[woodcarver]

Whatever creates a strong reaction in me

[idiot_stimpy]

I prefer dreams.

 

My imagination has shown me many things, however I know it cannot be trusted.

[Sunbeam]

I work quite a bit with astrology and the I Ching. But I will still pull out the cards from time to time. It's useful to understand the cycles of your life and see what kinds of energies are current/past/ahead. Even if you are unable to prepare for the specific circumstances you at least can draw an understanding of how to recognize it, work with it, and most importantly... Know that it passes!

[Anoesjka]

I don't use divination any more. I used to do muscle testing (and things like I Ching, pendulum, cards, when I was a youngster). The only things that happen now are the dreams that are still revealing important information. More often about the here and now, though.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Anoesjka