some negative cult traits

[3bob]

some negative cult traits:

 

Quote below from Captive Hearts Captive Minds by Madeline Landau Tobias and Janja Lalich:

 

"1. Glibness is a hallmark of psychopaths. They are able to use language effortlessly to beguile, confuse, and convince. They are captivating storytellers. They exude self-confidence and are able to spin a web that intrigues others and pulls them into the psychopath's life. Most of all, they are persuasive. Frequently they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or disarm them emotionally.

 

2.Manipulative and Conning
Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the psychopath is the psychopathic maneuver; which is essentially interpersonal manipulation "based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming, even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering....[The victim] is perceived as an aggressor, competitor, or merely as an instrument to be used....The manipulation inevitably becomes the end-all and is no longer qualified by the reality principle." In other words, there are no checks on the psychopath's behavior--anything goes. The Psychopath divides the world into suckers, sinners, and himself. He discharges powerful feelings of terror and rage by dominating and humiliating his victims. He is particularly successful when, through an overlay of charm, he makes an ally of his victim--a process sometimes described as emotional vampirism or emotional terrorism. Examples of this type of manipulation are plentiful in the literature of Jonestown and other cultic groups. It is especially prevalent in the one-on-one cultic relationship, where there is direct involvement with the manipulator.

3. Grandiose Sense of Self
The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. He believes everything is owed to him as a right. Preoccupied with his own fantasies, he must always be the center of attention. He presents himself as the "Ultimate One" enlightened, a vehicle of God, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes even the most humble of humble. He has an insatiable need for adulation and attendance. His grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance. Paranoia often accompanies the grandiosity, reinforcing the isolation of the group and the need for protection against a perceived hostile environment. In this way, he creates an us-versus-them mentality.

 

4.Pathological Lying
Psychopaths lie coolly and easily, even when it is obvious they are being untruthful. It is almost impossible for them to be consistently truthful about either a major or minor issue. They lie for no apparent reason, even when it would seem easier and safer to tell the truth. This is sometimes called "crazy lying." Confronting their lies may provoke an unpredictably incense rage or simply a Buddha-like smile.

Another form of lying common among cult leaders is known as pseudologica fantastica, an extension of pathological lying. Leaders tend to create a complex belief system, often about their own powers and abilities, in which they themselves sometimes get caught up. "It is often difficult to determine whether the lies are an actual delusional distortion of reality or are expressed with the conscious or unconscious intent to deceive. These manipulators are rarely original thinkers. Plagiarists and thieves, they seldom credit the true originators of ideas, often co-opting authorship. They are extremely convincing, forceful in the expression of their views, and talented at passing lie detector tests. For them, objective truth does not exist. The only "truth" is whatever will best achieve the outcome that meets their needs. This type of opportunism is very difficult to understand for those who are not psychopaths. For this reason, followers are more apt to invent or go along with all kinds of explanations and rationales for apparent inconsistencies in behavior "I know my guru must have had a good reason for doing this." "He did it because he loves me even though it hurts."

Edited September 11, 2014 by 3bob

[silent thunder]

Interesting stuff.... in the end though, as I experience it...

 

 

truth or untruth?

 

for me truly

 

it matters not

 

both serve the truth

 

for the truth is the truth

 

and untruth serves truth

 

in showing what truth is not

[GrandmasterP]

A cult is a religion without political power.

All religions began as cults and some gained political power and influence.

Everything in the OP referring to cults can equally be applied to aspects of any mainstream religion.

Edited September 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Apech]

People call me a cult ... at least I think that's what they said.

[3bob]

Interesting stuff.... in the end though, as I experience it...

 

 

truth or untruth?

 

for me truly

 

it matters not

 

both serve the truth

 

for the truth is the truth

 

and untruth serves truth

 

in showing what truth is not

 

it matters to me in the sense that one not need get an arm, leg or head cut off to learn a certain lesson when just losing the tip of a finger would be instructive enough for them... It also matters to me in the sense that one does not need to get seriously enthralled to so and so for an 'x' amount of time and have their life force sucked out of them to feed such a creepo when they could learn a similar lesson by a bad nic to get out quick... parents should know such as this instinctively for their kids protection and the same goes for anybody else...

[3bob]

A cult is a religion without political power.

All religions began as cults and some gained political power and influence.

Everything in the OP referring to cults can equally be applied to aspects of any mainstream religion.

 

GMP,

I'd say that if you or anyone else is only using or only feels a negative connotation as above then imo such is narrowed minded thinking. Btw, why would anyone spend time here (at ttb's) if they only feel such a negative connotation?

[3bob]

People call me a cult ... at least I think that's what they said.

 

it doesn't say cult it says concierge

[silent thunder]

it matters to me in the sense that one not need get an arm, leg or head cut off to learn a certain lesson when just losing the tip of a finger would be instructive enough for them... It also matters to me in the sense that one does not need to get seriously enthralled to so and so for an 'x' amount of time and have their life force sucked out of them to feed such a creepo when they could learn a similar lesson by a bad nic to get out quick... parents should know such as this instinctively for their kids protection and the same goes for anybody else...

 

if it matters to you then it matters. no doubt there.

 

for me, one doesn't need to do anything, including breathe.

anyone who says differently, seems to me is selling something... or lying

which is just as good as telling the truth... eventually.

or perhaps... they're just mired in the relativity of perception which is a chain of dogmatic slavery na?

beliefs, indeed any idea/ideal/concept held to be true... what is it?

 

lie, truth, teach soon, never learn... learn what? teach who?

 

cult of self, cult of belief

 

whatever I believe, is my master

 

 

good stuff... thanks for posting this.

[3bob]

if it matters to you then it matters. no doubt there.

 

for me, one doesn't need to do anything, including breathe.

anyone who says differently, seems to me is selling something... or lying

which is just as good as telling the truth... eventually.

or perhaps... they're just mired in the relativity of perception which is a chain of dogmatic slavery na?

beliefs, indeed any idea/ideal/concept held to be true... what is it?

 

lie, truth, teach soon, never learn... learn what? teach who?

 

cult of self, cult of belief

 

whatever I believe, is my master

 

 

good stuff... thanks for posting this.

 

ST, that sounds kind of strange to me considering you apparently have to breathe to indulge in: "Rain, Nature, Qi Gong, Meditation, Kung Fu, Camping, Photography, Sacred Geometry, Lucid Dreaming, OBE's, Solfeggio Harmonics..." ?

[GrandmasterP]

 

GMP,

I'd say that if you or anyone else is only using or only feels a negative connotation as above then imo such is narrowed minded thinking. Btw, why would anyone spend time here (at ttb's) if they only feel such a negative connotation?

Tom Wolfe coined that but it's fair comment I reckon.

It's a good OP worth discussing and I wasn't intending to be negative at all.

My point was and is that we can say all those things about both cults and aspects of mainstream religions.

Has to be really if we take Wolfe's point that all religions begin as cults and the ones that become mainstream are those that have attained political power and influence.

Edited September 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[silent thunder]

ST, that sounds kind of strange to me considering you apparently have to breathe to indulge in: "Rain, Nature, Qi Gong, Meditation, Kung Fu, Camping, Photography, Sacred Geometry, Lucid Dreaming, OBE's, Solfeggio Harmonics..." ?

Oh no doubt it sounds strange to many... but nonetheless, there is no need for it...

perhaps a deeply conditioned desire, but not need.

[thelerner]

In college I read the book Cults of Unreason, a fascinating book on the cult phenomena. Including a great expose on Scientology. A book 30 years later is Life 102, What to do when your guru sues you. Great book by the author of Life 101 series. It shows how an intelligent guy and smart people can get sucked into cult life. The very thought you're too smart for such a thing actually makes you vulnerable.

 

Which leads to something I read recently. That high IQ people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theory then average ones. Not because conspiracy theories are true, but because they can be masters of rationalization.

Edited September 10, 2014 by thelerner

[3bob]

Tom Wolfe coined that but it's fair comment I reckon.

It's a good OP worth discussing and I wasn't intending to be negative at all.

My point was and is that we can say all those things about both cults and aspects of mainstream religions.

Has to be really if we take Wolfe's point that all religions begin as cults and the ones that become mainstream are those that have attained political power and influence.

 

perhaps I'll modify the op title a little.

[Bearded Dragon]

perhaps I'll modify the op title a little.

 

You could probably even put a name in there. It's not at all subtle even as it is. haha.

[Unseen_Abilities]

Thanks for sharing. There's actually many cult-like groups here in Perth, Australia - I've been around them for a long time but I got out. I busted my way out! Sick!!! (aussie slang for "good"). Been a long, hard life - got abused in a Satanic cult earlier in my life but I'm out for good now.

 

Kiss my ass, suckers.

[Protector]

*Christianity joke*

[3bob]

"Cult-speak.
The cult has its own language. The cult invents new terminology or euphemisms for many things. The cult may also redefine many common words to mean something quite different. Cult-speak is also called "bombastic redefinition of the familiar", or "loading the language". "Loaded Language" is one of Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Conditions of Thought Reform — an essential part of any effective brainwashing program. The cult-speak may include a bunch of well-worn slogans, which Dr. Lifton called "thought-terminating clichés. The special words constrict rather than expand human understanding, and the slogans stop thought. Beginners have to learn all of the new terminology in order to fit in, and understand what is being said. Then, the new language has the effect of separating the newcomer from his old world, and from his old circle of friends. His new cult friends will tell him that "Only another cult member understands", and it will be true. When he babbles nothing but cult-speak, nobody but another cult member will be able to understand. Loading the language and redefining words has a long history..."

Edited September 11, 2014 by 3bob

[silent thunder]

Sort of points out that each individual language exists as a form of cult speak.

No one but your tribe understands you...

[3bob]

Sort of points out that each individual language exists as a form of cult speak.

No one but your tribe understands you...

 

to some degree but such evolution of language is not in the context or motive of "cult speak"

 

(btw, you gave the impression that none of this (including being a human being) is of your concern or interest considering your earlier implied 'why even bother or have an interest in breathing' summation)

Edited September 11, 2014 by 3bob

[silent thunder]

Aye, language variation isn't at all the same thing as directed, intentional hijacking of an existing language and set of cultural norms for the purpose of influencing other people's sense of reality in order to elicit control or power. It does though, for me, lead to the interesting observation that language variations really add to the propagation of and the tendency to prop up, tribal conflict and lack of comprehension that is such a part of divisive us vs them thinking... which is the goal of cults.

 

Question that pops up for me again now, when does it stop being a cult and start being culture? edit to add: When does it go from condemnation to acceptance? Is it a certain level of popularity? That's fascinating to me.

 

As for the breathing concept, I can see where it's a trigger for folks, but there's nothing personal in it, nor any value judgement in it, regarding what you or anyone else posted. I'm just openly sharing a concept that I'm resonating with and sitting with of late. Don't take my concept personally, it's not in any way intended as a valuation or devaluation judgement of what you or anyone else has posted.

 

I indeed care about a myriad of things and spend a fair amount of time each day, consciously cultivating very particular breaths.

Nonetheless... there's nothing I have to do, not eat, sleep, drink, breath, not even think... it's not required. But the option sure is nice.

Edited September 11, 2014 by silent thunder

[3bob]

"Aye, language variation isn't at all the same thing as directed, intentional hijacking of an existing language and set of cultural norms for the purpose of influencing other people's sense of reality in order to elicit control or power. It does though, for me, lead to the interesting observation that language variations really add to the propagation of and the tendency to prop up, tribal conflict and lack of comprehension that is such a part of divisive us vs them thinking... which is the goal of cults."

 

ok, and agreed to be interesting.

 

 

"Don't take my concept personally, it's not in any way intended as a valuation or devaluation judgement of what you or anyone else has posted."

 

ok, but if you take it personally then it is a valuation for you which in turn affects your interaction with us.

[thelerner]

If Star Wars taught us anything, its that the Sith (& cults) deal with absolutes. The more black and white a group paints the world, the more cult like it may be.

 

Course in many ways the Jedi were a cult, extremely controlling, indoctrinating members when they're very young, forbidding its inherents to marry. Hmnn, that didn't work out well for them.

[silent thunder]

If Star Wars taught us anything, its that the Sith (& cults) deal with absolutes. The more black and white a group paints the world, the more cult like it may be.

 

Course in many ways the Jedi were a cult, extremely controlling, indoctrinating members when they're very young, forbidding its inherents to marry. Hmnn, that didn't work out well for them.

 

Nice distinction.

 

"Aye, language variation isn't at all the same thing as directed, intentional hijacking of an existing language and set of cultural norms for the purpose of influencing other people's sense of reality in order to elicit control or power. It does though, for me, lead to the interesting observation that language variations really add to the propagation of and the tendency to prop up, tribal conflict and lack of comprehension that is such a part of divisive us vs them thinking... which is the goal of cults."

 

ok, and agreed to be interesting.

 

 

"Don't take my concept personally, it's not in any way intended as a valuation or devaluation judgement of what you or anyone else has posted."

 

ok, but if you take it personally then it is a valuation for you which in turn affects your interaction with us.

Thanks mate... I'm not taking any of this personally, other than than in the manner of enjoying the conversation quite a bit.