woodcarver Posted September 15, 2014 Tao is ultimate logic and I've explained it that way before. Even though most understand completely, I wouldn't recommend talking about it... there's always consequences. I managed to find the resources to study on my own and others can do the same. Nobody talked to me about it one day and I suddenly ran home to read Chuang-Tzu. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted September 15, 2014 I met a Saudi Arabian physicist in Cologne, a university professor, shortly after 9/11. He was a devout Muslim, and told the story of having his offices and home raided, and all his computers taken into custody. I asked him how he can be a strict Muslim, a religious believer, and physicist at the same time. I said something like his religion is based on pure belief and contradicts his scientific knowledge. He said no, you're wrong. Physics is also belief. There is no contradiction. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted September 15, 2014 I met a Saudi Arabian physicist in Cologne, a university professor, shortly after 9/11. He was a devout Muslim, and told the story of having his offices and home raided, and all his computers taken into custody. I asked him how he can be a strict Muslim, a religious believer, and physicist at the same time. I said something like his religion is based on pure belief and contradicts his scientific knowledge. He said no, you're wrong. Physics is also belief. There is no contradiction. I am afraid that our Saudi Arabian friend was confusing belief with faith. There is a difference but i would not have wasted my time arguing the point with him. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted September 15, 2014 Actually, I believe the word used was 'Glaubenssache' ;-) It covers belief and faith in one fell swoop. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted September 15, 2014 I am afraid that our Saudi Arabian friend was confusing belief with faith. There is a difference but i would not have wasted my time arguing the point with him. I like this distinction, Chang. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted September 15, 2014 Actually, I believe the word used was 'Glaubenssache' ;-) "Matter of faith"? Sure, I see it that way, too. The relatively short history of scientific discovery has been a jagged lightning bolt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted September 15, 2014 Faith and belief. I have a close friend, a Doctor of Medicine, who is a devout Roman Catholic. I have discussed Taoist Martial Arts and Health Practices with him and explained how it is possible to experience the movement of energy in and around ones body. He laughed and informed me that I am deluded, asking where was the proof? He on the other hand has no doubt that he will spend eternity in Heaven with the Holy Father. If asked for proof that this will be so he simply smiles and states that he has no need for proof as his faith is strong. Faith can also be extremely dangerous. Of the worlds religions which can match Christianity and Islam for fanaticism and where will you find greater faith than in the mind of the fanatic. For not only is the fanatic prepared to die for his beliefs but he is happy to see everyone else die for them as well. Alas, faith cannot be reasoned with. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I once heard an interview with a reverend who is also a physicist. Asked how he reconciles the two different ways to look at the world, he answered that when he enters the church, he leaves his scientific knowledge like a piece of baggage at the door. Well, to each his own... Personally, I find it important to bridge over the two (representing the two cerebral hemispheres, also), at least in principle. Daoism, Hermeticism and other metaphysical teachings provide ways to do this. Edited September 15, 2014 by Michael Sternbach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted September 15, 2014 ... Check out Fritjof Capra's Tao of Physics. Highly influential. ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted September 15, 2014 And watch What the Bleep Do We Know?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioONhpIJ-NY A very beautiful movie which has many great scientists speaking in favour of a spiritual world view. How about watching it together with your friend, Dustybeijing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted September 15, 2014 Alas, faith cannot be reasoned with. I just can't never pass on a opportunity to quote the wise Granny Weatherwax: "Right. Right. That's people for you. Now if I'd seen him, really there, really alive, it'd be in me like a fever. If I thought there was some god who really did care two hoots about people, who watched 'em like a father and cared for 'em like a mother...well, you wouldn't catch me sayin' things like 'there are two sides to every question' and 'we must respect other people's beliefs.' You wouldn't find me just being gen'rally nice in the hope that it'd all turn out all right in the end, not if that flame was burning in me like an unforgivin' sword. And I did say burnin', Mister Oats, 'cos that's what it'd be. You say that you people don't burn folk or sacrifice people anymore, but that's what true faith would mean, y'see? Sacrficin' your own life, one day at a time to the flame, declarin' the truth of it, workin' for it, breathin' the soul of it. That's religion. Anything else is just...is just bein' nice. And a way of keeping in touch with the neighbors." http://www.masterzdm.com/NCD/showflat.php?Cat=&sigs=&Board=DEBATEA&Number=485186&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=3&o=&fpart=1 edit: now that I think about it, I believe there's no separation between faith and belief in German. But I may be mistaken. Interesting ... time to go to work. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted September 15, 2014 ... time to go to work. And that is called "reality". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted September 15, 2014 "Early to bed, early to rise,Work like hell: fertilize." 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted September 15, 2014 And watch What the Bleep Do We Know?! A very beautiful movie which has many great scientists speaking in favour of a spiritual world view. How about watching it together with your friend, Dustybeijing? Thanks. Based off the first few minutes, he's not gonna sit through it....but I'll watch it and perhaps be able to talk to him with a little more understanding 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) ... (T)hat's what true faith would mean, y'see? Sacrficin' your own life, one day at a time to the flame, declarin' the truth of it, workin' for it, breathin' the soul of it. The true spiritual life can be very uncompromising. It seems to me now it has cost me dear. Yet perhaps many would envy me. I must admit though, I am suprised sometimes to see so many sceptical materialists on a taoist (religious) forum, but that's one of the beauties of taoism. ... Edited September 15, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) ... ... time to go to work. And that is called "reality". Reality sucks. ... Edited September 15, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted September 15, 2014 This video is shorter and is available in my country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZjgP9G7r0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted September 15, 2014 This video is shorter and is available in my country A minute or 2 in, aaannnd... yeah, it's a kid's show about why science is so "awe-suuum"... Are you trying to take the piss? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted September 15, 2014 I am suprised sometimes to see so many sceptical materialists on a taoist (religious) forum, but that's one of the beauties of taoism. ... Well, for me it's not a religion. It's simply a way of looking at the world. I don't really know where or why religious notions ever came into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted September 15, 2014 ... To me a religion is a way of looking at the world. Or even a variety of ways. But I shan't quibble over labels. ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Taoism's not just religious Cap. It's a big constituency. Room for all sorts and conditions. Edited September 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted September 15, 2014 Maybe the world would be better if more shows on TV were made by members of the skeptic society Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Perhaps... as long as they're open minded skeptics and not the usual skedicks running all over... they're as bad as the fundies to me. edit: spelling grrrr Edited September 15, 2014 by silent thunder 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted September 15, 2014 Maybe the world would be better if more shows on TV were made by members of the skeptic society TV professionals are very devout. They all worship at the shrine of 'Viewer Ratings'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Protector Posted September 15, 2014 Funny how the only ones who are worried about skeptics are the people who want everyone else to have an open mind Look out for people who used an open mind as a trash bin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
