Taoist practice advice for post ejaculation fatigue symptoms?

[buckaroobonzai]

Alright this is a lengthy topic that I'll try to make as concise as possible while explaining everything required.

When I was in my early twenties my lifestyle was basically eating tv dinners, fast food, junk snacks etc., waking up at noon and taking late college classes, playing guitar in a band, playing RPGs, playing some hockey once in a great while, smoked cigarrettes, and partying-drinking and smoking doobies- hitting the hay around 2-4 AM every night.

I also was dating, and had normal regular sex with my girlfriend, as well as "self stimulation". Well I was doing this for about four years out of high school, then I noticed I was feeling tired alot. Then one evening, I was out a a local beach party, I had a couple of beers, when I went home that night I "self stimulated" twice finishing off both times. The second time something very weird happened, I felt something like a mental energy drain, like some kind of vitality exited my body and/or mind. I immediately felt exhausted and felt strange bodily/nerve pain sensations. To make a long story short these continued for years after this, resulting in problems sleeping, fatigue on and off all the time, and pains in what felt like the nerves on and off.

Doctors diagnosed epstein barr and then later chronic fatigue. However a couple of years ago I went to a holisitc practioner who said he cured hinself of chronic fatigue. I went through the program and was able to fix close to 85-90 percent of my issues with detoxification.

 

However there are a couple of issues remaining. The one I am most concerned about is that after I ejaculate, be it with a girl, "self stimulation", or a wet dream i am physically drained for days, and I experience aching under the ribs on the sides-alleviated most of the time when I urinate. I have been reading up on Taoist yoga -inner alchemy and have seen how the taoist (as well as Aryuvedic tradtion), considers ejaculation the loss of vital energy.

 

1. I am wondering if I should try to learn how to transform the semen into vital essence energy as described in the book:

Taoist yoga, alchemy and immortality

 

2. Is this the best solution, or do I supplement my nurishment and excercise practices to increase the health and energy levels to withstand these regular functions which are resulting in these symptoms?

 

3. Can there be a mental component I am missing, blocking, and/or not realising that can be causing these symptoms? I feel I don't have any hangups or problems with ejaculation, and my guess that these symptoms are leftover from the initial onset so many years ago that night when I first got sick. I have read about personal energy fields, and how burning coal walkers simply train their minds to think that they will not let the burning coals affect them when they walk over them, and so their body is not affected. If this can be a mental manifestation (?), can the mind be retrained to block this type of conscious or subconscious thinking?

 

 

Any suggestions on further research, more places to look, others to ask on this matter? My holistic health practitioner has not been able to help very much with this problem. I have been considering seeing a TCM practitioner, but she has said she will most likely recommend herbs for the symptoms.

 

Whew, thas a lot to read...sorry

[mbanu]

Sleep more than usual. Sleep is the backbone of jing restoration. Avoid coffee, black tea, hard liquor, and tobacco.

 

Before engaging in sexual activity of any kind, ask yourself if you are actually horny. If the answer is yes, go for it, but if the answer is no, find something else to do that will satisfy your needs. It may sound odd, but you'd be surprised how often people will ejaculate due to stress, boredom, or force of habit rather than because of genuine urge.

 

Most importantly, go to a licensed TCM doc, and get them to give you a checkup. Follow their advice.

Edited September 4, 2007 by mbanu

[Mal]

1. I am wondering if I should try to learn how to transform the semen into vital essence energy as described in the book:

Taoist yoga, alchemy and immortality

 

2. Is this the best solution, or do I supplement my nurishment and excercise practices to increase the health and energy levels to withstand these regular functions which are resulting in these symptoms?

 

3. Can there be a mental component I am missing, blocking, and/or not realising that can be causing these symptoms?

 

 

1. If you are interested yes, but it would be a lot of hard work if you are only doing it "just" to fix your problem.

 

2. Balancing food, exercise and sleep would IMHO help more. Remember an "average Jo" is able to ejaculate without problems.

 

3. Do you worry about this? Trick question I find with any sexual performance issue there is sure to be a mental component involved, espicially if you are "worried". Fixing this can be time consuming so try to enjoy the process.

 

Different things work for different people, I would try the TCM person and see how you go.

[buckaroobonzai]

Yes, the only problems I am having, are post ejaculation, where there is fatigue, and aches under the sides of the ribs if I don't urinate frequently. I enjoy the process aqnd have no problems holding it, I can hold it for hours, and do not need to ejaculate when orgasm occur either. I have been practising techniques to hold the energy in check.

 

The holistic health practitioner has also recommended that I remove some amalgam fillings which have mercury in them, considering that I have nine of these. He says there may be toxicity involved that is causing fatigue, aching, hypersensitivity etc. The plan is to get that done soon.

 

My eating habits are good as I avoid all white processed sugar, junk snacks, and eat mostly home cooked meals and vegetables. I try to buy organic as much as I can afford. I also drink mostly only distilled water, though the quantity fluctuates, I need to increse the amount again.

 

I hope this can be relieved by completing the detox. I want to also visit a TCM practitioner and see what herbs they will recommend.

 

Lately I have been trying to take siberian ginseng for three days or so after ejaculating, this seems to have increased the energy levelos I feel, though hasn't completely alleviated the symptoms.

 

Thank for the suggestions everyone.

[Mal]

[Trunk]

..after I ejaculate, ... I experience aching under the ribs on the sides-alleviated most of the time when I urinate. I have been reading up on Taoist yoga -inner alchemy and have seen how the taoist (as well as Aryuvedic tradtion), considers ejaculation the loss of vital energy.

 

1. I am wondering if I should try to learn how to transform the semen into vital essence energy as described in the book:

Taoist yoga, alchemy and immortality

 

2. Is this the best solution, or do I supplement my nurishment and excercise practices to increase the health and energy levels to withstand these regular functions which are resulting in these symptoms?

 

.. I have been considering seeing a TCM practitioner, ..

 

Advice:

1. Go see a TCM practitioner. At least some of what you have going on a TCMer will spot right away and be able to help.

2. Don't do retention, it's very advanced and - done wrong (link) - will only make your situation worse.

3. If I were you, I'd do some self-acupressure, hindu squats, and gentle lower tan tien breathing. On a regular basis.

 

Just an over-simplified assessment: Your kidney energy is deficient, and your liver qi is stuck. The thing is, you can't restore the kidneys easily because the stuck energy is blocking the way. So, you need to gradually do things to resolve the stuck energy and then nourishment will naturally circulate in and restore. If you try semen retention, it'll just make the stuck situation much worse.

 

Trunk

[buckaroobonzai]

[Eric23]

If you're having discomfort and pain associated with urination and ejaculation, I would have your health practictioner check for a prostate infection among other things. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

[Spectrum]

[Counterpoints]

This problems you describe are probably a result of POIS -- Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome. Scientific journal papers have been written about this condition. Please see: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/in...hp?topic=6576.0

 

for more information.

 

 

You may also want to fill out this medical questionnaire:

http://pois.olympe-network.com

 

 

Best luck.

[Spectrum]

Counterpoints missed the T

 

See:

Have you devoted any time to strengthing your "core", while your practicing your "retention"?

[Franky]

Well, there are some misconceptions about ejaculation, both from the celibacy and free love communities.

 

#1

Ejaculation does not deplete testosterone. There is no testosterone in semen. Actually, lack of ejaculation deminishes testosterone.

 

http://www.bodybuildingweb.net/blog/effect...building-gains/

(of course the dumb body builders would think they lose testosterone)

 

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-144743.html

(I believe post #11 is an article)

 

#2

There are various degrees of the quality of blood in your body. The main priority if the best blood in your body is used to make semen. It's something like 40 parts blood to make one part semen. When a guys reserves are full, the good blood goes to other tasks. One of the first places it goes once your loaded is to your brain. This high quality blood helps with memory and concentration. Maybe prolonged exposure of the brain to the good blood can make one feel more spiritually aware. This would explain all religions seaking of celibacy being enlightened.

 

As far as your situation from your habbits, well I think it's from over use. Just like how a sports injury can come from over use of a seemingly harmless excersize, well your sport-wanking has probably given you a sports injury of your nervous, hormonal and reproductive systems.

 

I'd say retain your jing for a long time(months) and let your body and mind heal. once you start to have noctournal emmissions, then maybe you could ease back into the habbits. Never go back to that frequency or intensity of your old habbits.

[WestwardMonkey]

1) Post ejaculation I found white tea very helpful, for a little more umph add korean gensing.

2) Diet wise more fruits, veggies and nuts (walnuts are great).

3) Key nutrients to consider in diet calcium, vitamin D, vitamin C, magnesium, selenium and zinc (used up through ejaculation).

4) After sex at the very minimum no exercize for 24 hour but pay attetion to your body. I heard of some waited even 72 hours.

5) READ MORE ON THIS FIRST BEFORE DOING, pressing the huiyin point just before ejaculation causes a suction making you have an orgasm with out the sperm. I found this very effective once it is understood well.

6) Reduce salt intake

7) A good read for a better understanding read: The Tao of health, sex, & longevity by Daniel P. Reid it has a section devoted to sex practices and what Taoist masters of old did.

 

Hope this helps out I been down that road before and it sucks, but it was not all bad I gain alot of knowledge because of it. There is always some good in the bad.

 

P.S. If this does not help please see a doctor just in case it is something very serious

[hagar]

Lot of good advice here. Here's my 2 kroner.

 

1I'd stay away from the pressing of Yui Yin point, and all HT sexual techniques. period. Will bring you nothing but worries.

 

2. Like Trunk said: Circulate before retention. Retention without circulation and transformation is just throwing gazonline on a fire.

 

3. Like Mbanu said: Get rest, and let go of emotionally based sexual activity. See the root of the sexual impulse and much will solve itself. Sleep, sleep, and train hard. Run, do workouts, meditate with the intention of releasing stuck emotional energy.

 

4. Spend time in nature. Mostly by the sea or in the mountains. I find granite the most potent.

Toil, sweat and rest in the mountains is my best practice. No form involved. Will replenish your innate essential water.

 

5. Do NOT watch porn.

 

6. Be honest, speak your heart, do what you say or think you will. Why?

it will make it harder to fall back into jing-depleting activities like staying up all night, drinking, smoking, having sex. (sounds nice, yet it's all for the wrong reasons)

 

h

[Pranaman]

by chance are you a fellow mycotopiate?

 

...

look into grounding.

 

Eckhart Tolle's "The Power Of Now" or " A New Earth" will make life easier for you while you are on your path.

 

start physically.

 

I used to experience this very fatigue you speak of. Zhan Zhuang (standing) has contributed to the retainment of vitality I experience after orgasm now. Also coupled with physical sexual health exercises, like at mattersofsize.com.

[sahaj]

The best and ultimately the only way to

avoid this problem is to find the right frequency of ejaculations for you personally and don't go over

your limit. You will lose energy if the frequency is too high and you will get too "hardcore" if you

don't do enough. It's a personal journey with no fixed formulas (although the manuals have some advice).

 

Don't ejaculate for a certain amount of time until you REALLY feel the need to let 'er blow. Then monitor the

result. If you feel relaxed and energized it was time, if you feel depleted you shot to soon. And retain until you feel energy again, repeat the experiment until you get a feel for it.

 

I've dealt with this problem by really seeing clearly with experience that sex with ejaculation isn't even close to where you can go in sex without ejaculating. Then you give up the much lesser joy of a squirt for a whole energy dance that blows you and her away.

Good luck

[altiora]

Just another angle on this issue: I note that Hua Ching Ni in his "Workbook for [the] Spiritual Development of All People", at p140 states the the second day of the full moon is the only day on which men can have sex without damaging their jing.

 

Any other people have insight on this statement by Hua Ching Ni?

[Taoist81]

You have already had the only advice you really need multiple times: See a Licensed Acupuncturist.

 

Meridians and "important points" are not just around the ribs and pelvic area, they are all over the body.

[WestwardMonkey]

I apologize but after thinking I thought I should elaborate more on your fatigue problem. Now I know there are may great ways to help but all I can speak truely speak on is what I experienced personally take from it what is applicable to you. What I found when I had my problem is the attachment to pleasure was so intense that it made sex more frequent resulting in fatigue. So I looked for thing to reduce the need in my mind to give my body time to recover because of the drain on vital nutrients. This was a slow at first because the only tool I had was abstain from it and I was able to do that even as long as 90 days but it gradually dwindled to a need for it 1 to 2 times a day this was a very bad place to be I was fatigued and was having memory problems. Stangely there was one benefit during this 10 years of chaos I was not sick once probably do to being in a state of constant pleasure but even I knew this was misleading and although I was not sick I was really fatigued and having memory problems. See I found when you ejaculate your thoughts and the attachment to the pleasure reiforce the need for them. The only thing I learned after that was to increase my nutrients to help reduce the fatigue but it did not help the underling problem. I then tried pressing the huiyin point just before ejaculation this at first increased the need to ejaculate but my mind calmed in time. As a result I my memory slowly returned and I had more energy. The reason I concluded was two fold I was not ejaculating less stress on vital essential nutrients and the frequency dropped to once maybe twice a week. During this transition one odd occurance for a 1 to 2 month into it ruffly I was waking in the morning to find my arm hairs standing on end like static electricity then it vanished with and did not return. I saw a down side start to emerge though my body was greating colder which was great in summer but winter it was bad. I also got head aches and far as the 10 year streak with out being sick it ended. This in its self told me two things I needed to start ejaculating again but the huiyin press was effective but how do I balance this out. So after experimenting I found a perfect ratio for me 1 ejaculation, resist as long as adequate, 1 huiyin press, resist as long as adequate, 1 huiyin press, resist as long as adequate and repeat. After this process I kept my memory, kept what energy and was not sick again. Now I was starting too focus on making my body more effient with a vegan diet and exercise. With the exercise I developed a routine that took care of the mind and body. 1st had a stretching routine tageting appropriate tendons. This increased my energy so now to put it to use. 2nd with this energy I target appropiate muscles with a stationary tension like martail art stances. Now with these first two I open and move the energy though meridians flowing from the inside legs up the front to the chest though the arms to the back and back down but this is sectioned off in a yin yang sequence. Example I do not target muscle in the upper back of my body who wants tense shoulders? I do stretch them though. Moving down to the mingmen point to the huiyn point I do focus on the muscles. There is a saying, "A strong back makes for a long life." but in short there is an alternating sequence going around the body. 3rd after the muscles are tired of the stationary positions and long tension I move to an adequate amount of moving exercizes that move in a twisting motion that massages plus the aerobic type exercise increases the oxygen relaxing the body. 4th Now relaxed energy used up effiency of motion is next since the energy is used up I have to find it so do my martial arts routine which is a slow moving routine mainly defensive. Slow moving and relaxed because I found I absorb the information better. Defensive mainly because what good is breaking bricks if someone gets the drop on you plus I don't want to put so much focus harming people I rather end it with the lest amount of effort. After all this I can feel the chi's heat moving though the body and it a very blissfull and comfortable feeling and even if I do not do the exercises I still feel it. I also found the longer I abstain from sex with out forcing it the more energy I have and the longer more blissful I feel. If the attachment is there use it. Like they say, "Fight fire with fire." Plus as we age we lose this energy so sexual restaint I personlly feel should increase with time we need to change with the seasons of are life. Good verses to read out of the Tao Te Ching concering this 2,44,46,50,53,63,67,71

 

P.S. Sorry for going on and on with details I can be very foolish this way like the saying goes, "No ones mouth can utter the whole thing." All the best to you in solving your problem.

[Gerard]

4. Spend time in nature. Mostly by the sea or in the mountains. I find granite the most potent.

 

How true is that.

 

Also eat and sleep well (already said). And don't practice any Chi Kung/IMA for at least 2 days in order to naturally replenish jing.

[lino]

I apologize but after thinking I thought I should elaborate more on your fatigue problem. Now I know there are may great ways to help but all I can speak truely speak on is what I experienced personally take from it what is applicable to you. What I found when I had my problem is the attachment to pleasure was so intense that it made sex more frequent resulting in fatigue. So I looked for thing to reduce the need in my mind to give my body time to recover because of the drain on vital nutrients. This was a slow at first because the only tool I had was abstain from it and I was able to do that even as long as 90 days but it gradually dwindled to a need for it 1 to 2 times a day this was a very bad place to be I was fatigued and was having memory problems. Stangely there was one benefit during this 10 years of chaos I was not sick once probably do to being in a state of constant pleasure but even I knew this was misleading and although I was not sick I was really fatigued and having memory problems. See I found when you ejaculate your thoughts and the attachment to the pleasure reiforce the need for them. The only thing I learned after that was to increase my nutrients to help reduce the fatigue but it did not help the underling problem. I then tried pressing the huiyin point just before ejaculation this at first increased the need to ejaculate but my mind calmed in time. As a result I my memory slowly returned and I had more energy. The reason I concluded was two fold I was not ejaculating less stress on vital essential nutrients and the frequency dropped to once maybe twice a week. During this transition one odd occurance for a 1 to 2 month into it ruffly I was waking in the morning to find my arm hairs standing on end like static electricity then it vanished with and did not return. I saw a down side start to emerge though my body was greating colder which was great in summer but winter it was bad. I also got head aches and far as the 10 year streak with out being sick it ended. This in its self told me two things I needed to start ejaculating again but the huiyin press was effective but how do I balance this out. So after experimenting I found a perfect ratio for me 1 ejaculation, resist as long as adequate, 1 huiyin press, resist as long as adequate, 1 huiyin press, resist as long as adequate and repeat. After this process I kept my memory, kept what energy and was not sick again. Now I was starting too focus on making my body more effient with a vegan diet and exercise. With the exercise I developed a routine that took care of the mind and body. 1st had a stretching routine tageting appropriate tendons. This increased my energy so now to put it to use. 2nd with this energy I target appropiate muscles with a stationary tension like martail art stances. Now with these first two I open and move the energy though meridians flowing from the inside legs up the front to the chest though the arms to the back and back down but this is sectioned off in a yin yang sequence. Example I do not target muscle in the upper back of my body who wants tense shoulders? I do stretch them though. Moving down to the mingmen point to the huiyn point I do focus on the muscles. There is a saying, "A strong back makes for a long life." but in short there is an alternating sequence going around the body. 3rd after the muscles are tired of the stationary positions and long tension I move to an adequate amount of moving exercizes that move in a twisting motion that massages plus the aerobic type exercise increases the oxygen relaxing the body. 4th Now relaxed energy used up effiency of motion is next since the energy is used up I have to find it so do my martial arts routine which is a slow moving routine mainly defensive. Slow moving and relaxed because I found I absorb the information better. Defensive mainly because what good is breaking bricks if someone gets the drop on you plus I don't want to put so much focus harming people I rather end it with the lest amount of effort. After all this I can feel the chi's heat moving though the body and it a very blissfull and comfortable feeling and even if I do not do the exercises I still feel it. I also found the longer I abstain from sex with out forcing it the more energy I have and the longer more blissful I feel. If the attachment is there use it. Like they say, "Fight fire with fire." Plus as we age we lose this energy so sexual restaint I personlly feel should increase with time we need to change with the seasons of are life. Good verses to read out of the Tao Te Ching concering this 2,44,46,50,53,63,67,71

 

P.S. Sorry for going on and on with details I can be very foolish this way like the saying goes, "No ones mouth can utter the whole thing." All the best to you in solving your problem.

 

If your urine is bubbly inside the toilet (indicates retrograde ejac), it might be good to stop the

huiyin press permanently. Trunk has a whole web page about this. The huiyin press might lead

to a LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT YOU DON'T WANT.

[Yuen Biao]

The huiyin press might lead to a LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT YOU DON'T WANT.

 

Is that when you orgasm? Or press 'Huiyin' to prolong stimulation?

The reason I ask is I would probably do this about once a week earlier in life, but not so much now!

 

 

How true is that.

 

Also eat and sleep well (already said). And don't practice any Chi Kung/IMA for at least 2 days in order to naturally replenish jing.

 

I've never heard that before; so two days a week you refrain from internal practises?

[buckaroobonzai]

Updates, to bring this discussion back and find clues to how these problems orginate.

 

I forgot to mention this in the first port, When I first had my "overwhelming" energy drain, I felt energy rush up from my torso and out (I'm pretty sure not just around) the top of my head. I have thought at length about what this was and some conclusions are orgasmic energy drain by an entity, or accidental kundalini-type movement. I also feel that there was initial injury to organs and possible the cns/brain as well. The immense fatigue I felt that night was dualistic, I felt exhausted yet could not sleep well, nor for a few years afterwards.

 

I wonder if an entity or remote magical act could have drained energy/vital force to the point of injury or fatigue for years? Or, knocked meridians/chakras out of balance or short circuited them...

 

I have had two sessions with a Fourwindssociety.com, shaman. She found an etheric "feeding tube" attached to my left pelvis. That is exactly where I felt many pains after ejaculation. She also found no energy at all from my 3rd chakra down. I am working on discovering the "affinity" to a possible "succubus"-like entity so I can release it first. If I can't do that she can do a "fluid" extraction. Then she will work on my chakra issue.

 

I have had mercury amalgam fillings removed and done a CNS/Brain heavy metal detox recently. I have been supplying my body with tons of natural nutrients during the detox. Interesting to note I have had many nocturnal emissions during the detox. However, I have had much less symptoms of fatigue, and almost no aching during the detox+nutrients.

 

 

Even though initially in the early 90s when this first occurred I had basically Chronic Fatigue syndrome with daily symptoms for years, I am at the point where I only feel symptoms after ejac., so I tend to avoid it whenever possible. The strange thing about this is that I will feel a building up of energy in the nerves for a day or two, occasionaly wont be able to fall asleep all nite because of prickly/stinging nerve sensations (maybe high/charged energy?), then nocturnal emission as I fall asleep (energy release?)

 

I am considering going to an acuupunture/accupressure-ist, and a hypnotherapist at a local holisitic health center.

Also I am working on meditating and asking my "Highest" self what happened that night, then what are the cause of these symptoms.

I am considering going to a "Family Constellations" Family constellations session, though I don't know if past and present familial psyche and energetic issues can tie into this.

I really want to find out the initial cause, entity, kundalini, or orgasmic malfunction (ha!). And if I can re-balance energetically, or if I need spiritual and/or outside energy work to?

Edited August 20, 2009 by buckaroobonzai

[buckaroobonzai]

Edited August 20, 2009 by buckaroobonzai

[King Kabalabhati]

To respond to the original question with Ayurvedic knowledge, almond milk is considered a good tonic for building vitality after ejaculation. Just soak some almonds overnight, peel them and blend with water into a smooth milk, then drink. Just eating the soaked almonds will also do.