Malcolm Pees on The Tao Bums

[asunthatneversets]

I've seen it time and time again. That group of Malcolmites will even disavow CN Norbu's books and writings simply because they contain a quote from Ramana. Case in point: The Marvelous Primordial State.

 

You shouldn't reduce spiritual discovery to a sham of "unless you're in our club you are all wrong".

To be fair, Elio Guarisco said the Ramana Maharshi quote in the epigraph was entirely his own idea and he did not approve it with anyone (including ChNN) prior to putting it in the book. He said it was a mistake and most likely will not be in the second editions when they repress.

[Brian]

So, who's this Malcolm character???

[Creation]

Does your mind control you? Or do you control your mind? Sounds like your mind got the best of you.

Who exactly sent you that message? What was the source? Do you do everything your mind tells you to do?

My mind is a toilet bowl of every kind of thought imaginable, the result of endless dumping from aeons gone by. Why would I give one thought more preference and not push the lever?

Not willing to discuss this more. If you would have acted differently in the same situation, so be it.

[Creation]

So, who's this Malcolm character???

One of very few Westerners to be given the Tibetan Buddhist analog of an academic degree. Also, once the controversial moderator of the then largest (but now defunct) Buddhist forum on the web. He has many admirers and many detractors in the online Buddhist world.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Creation

[Jetsun]

I was reading a certain publicly available Dzogchen book, and was at a point dealing with practice instructions. It was just for curiosity's sake, but I didn't think anything of it because it was publicly available. At a certain step, an unmistakable message arose in my mind: "STOP READING THIS". So I stopped.

 

Words are not "just words", especially when it comes to Dzogchen.

 

I know books can have transmission or lung and so it is best to receive them at an appropriate time, but even if that is so what is the worst that would happen if you continued on reading? there is no Dharma God who is going to punish you or strike you down if you did and such transmissions don't have the power to unbalance your psyche in any serious way, most likely what would happen is that your mind would create concepts out of it creating temporary barriers to full embracing of the teaching and barriers to that particular transmission, what worse could happen than that?

[Brian]

 

One of very few Westerners to be given the Tibetan Buddhist analog of an academic degree. Also, once the controversial moderator of the then largest (but now defunct) Buddhist forum on the web. He has many admirers and many detractors in the online Buddhist world.

Thank you!

[Creation]

I know books can have transmission or lung and so it is best to receive them at an appropriate time, but even if that is so what is the worst that would happen if you continued on reading?

My mind would have attempted to follow the instructions on some level in order to comprehend them ("don't think of blue"). And my mind would have continued to bat around the instructions on a mental level long after I read them, which also would contain a subtle trying to do them. That is how I observe my mind to work. With Vajrayana, which operates at extremely subtle levels, these thoughts have more impact than your average thoughts.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Creation

[C T]

If an awakening process does not become increasingly conscious, negative outcomes will occur.

 

Any form of spiritual absorption, of which textual study is included, is related to this process.

 

In days past, certain texts are transmitted to trainees progressively for precisely the above reason.

 

Its not 'secret' in the way some people with insincere motives choose to portray in relation to esoteric texts.

 

 

Its like exposing a young teenager to porn. Some materials have to handled with timing and appropriateness.

[Pero]

Malcolm wrote:

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1828

 

What's up with that?

 

I can think of many derogatory comments at this point but instead I will wait. If you wait long enough, so they say, the bodies of your enemies will come floating down the river...

 

It is funny that Malcolm gets to push out hatred for other sites from his own site, yet religiously censors topics on his own site like the latest one that was removed because a lama had a picture of himself and his protoge in yabyum which resulted in unsavory discussion... Senge Khadro...

 

 

.image.jpg

What's actually funny is that while he gets routinely insulted on this site it's not a problem to any one. But one or two general negative comments from his direction and immediately you get all up in arms that he's spewing out hatred. Very funny indeed.

[GrandmasterP]

Malcolm's about as far up himself as anyone could get without disappearing.

He keeps more off DW than ever he attracts to it.

Edited September 17, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Tibetan_Ice]

Perhaps one should examine one's own nose before casting boogers?

 

 

Malcolm banned at dharmawheel...

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1038&hilit=Legal+action&start=0

 

 

Threat of legal action from DW...

 

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1754

[asunthatneversets]

Perhaps one should examine one's own nose before casting boogers?

 

Malcolm banned at dharmawheel...

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1038&hilit=Legal+action&start=0

 

Threat of legal action from DW...

 

http://www.vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1754

He was banned for a day, quite some time ago... and that threat of legal action from dharmawheel is not directed at Malcolm, so I'm not sure how or why that is relevant.

 

You do realize that Vajracakra was created in response to issues with dharmawheel, yes? While I personally stay out of the whole thing, there are many who are not happy with the management and moderation tactics at dharmawheel.

[Tibetan_Ice]

He was banned for a day, quite some time ago... and that threat of legal action from dharmawheel is not directed at Malcolm, so I'm not sure how or why that is relevant.

 

You do realize that Vajracakra was created in response to issues with dharmawheel, yes? While I personally stay out of the whole thing, there are many who are not happy with the management and moderation tactics at dharmawheel.

Ok I will spell it out for you. Malcolm has used TTB's as an example of people whom read texts, don't understand them, think that they do and then get into trouble. Well, it appears that the members if his very own forum could be subject to legal action from another forum that they attacked. For the last month or so there was a thread at vajracakra called "is it Dharmawheel or is it just me". (Or something like that) It went on for pages and pages. I noticed today that that thread is gone now. I was quite disgusted with the whole thread and asked myself how a forum which is even remotely supposed to be Buddhist could harbour such an attack on another supposedly Buddhist forum. People tend to judge other people not on what they say but on what they do. So, by permitting such a thread in the first place, Malcolm incurred some karma there along with the members of his site. I just don't think it is right that Malcolm is so arrogant as to use TTB's as an example of people who understand nothing when his own site's members suffer from the same sickness. Again, an enlightened being could see the subtleties and the distinctions that I am presenting.

 

And, to create a forum out of spite for another forum in a way is an injustice to all the members. You are supposed to perform actions out of compassion and concern for other sentient beings.

 

And tell me this, although Malcolm claims that he is against "privileged texts', he himself has told posters on his forum that certain topics were inappropriate for his forum, like discussions of practices and experiences. He has removed many topics from his forum. Yet, you will find practices and experiences in most all of the Buddhist books that you can buy on the net, so where is the reciprocity in that?

 

I guess I'm just sick of all he quotes that Simple Jack posted from Malcolm, like he was some god or final authority on Buddhism, when in reality he is just like the rest of us.

 

On another note, what are the dangers of reading secret top-down texts?

Some teachers do tell you and have written about it in their texts. The first danger is supposed to be misinterpretation resulting in nihilism or eternalism. There is a danger that someone reads that there is no self and acts like nothing matters anymore. Yet the karmic accumulator still keeps ticking. They don't understand the two truths, the relative and absolute and become confused.

 

The next danger is that of reification, which is enforces dualism, rather than promote nondualism. At the highest levels of practice, one has to shed even the slightest remnants of the belief in the self because that belief is a hindrance. It is important to realize that all experiences are empty and one should not grasp at them, for the grasping creates a seal or mark and at the highest level seals and marks are hindrances. Anything that enforces a Subject-Object relation is straying from the path.

 

The next danger is no danger at all. If the reader cannot understand the text, then they were not ready or evolved enough to gain any practical knowledge or gnosis from the experiences from the teachings in the first place. If someone is not ready, there is not a whole lot that you can do to help them, except perhaps point them to instructions for the persons of dull intellect and dull faculties.

 

If you ask me, the most shocking text I have read is from the Buddha himself. For, in it (if you want to believe that that is what the Buddha actually said) the Buddha expounds on the true meaning of emptiness, even to the point where he says that if you call him a Buddha, you have succumbed to ignorance for the very act of calling him a Buddha is a mark, and the Buddha doesn't have any marks. But this is not a restricted text.

 

http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page208

 

The other danger of revealing secret texts, is that if the practices revealed do actually work, then it undermines Buddhism and the need for supporting the very structure that nurtured the teachings. In any institution a support mechanism must be built in to promote dependency in order to sustain the longevity. Otherwise, it would dissolve away and be lost to future generations.

 

The other danger is that of losing face or being simply labeled insane or lunatic. If you present secret texts which tell you how to walk in water, leave footprints in stone, there is the likely chance that ordinary people will think you are just plain crazy or that the "fanatics" should be locked up, burned at the stake or whatever. I still ponder what happened there, when the Chinese murdered 1.2 million Tibetans. It sure makes me wonder.

 

Edited September 18, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[ralis]

Ok I will spell it out for you. Malcolm has used TTB's as an example of people whom read texts, don't understand them, think that they do and then get into trouble. Well, it appears that the members if his very own forum could be subject to legal action from another forum that they attacked. For the last month or so there was a thread at vajracakra called "is it Dharmawheel or is it just me". (Or something like that) It went on for pages and pages. I noticed today that that thread is gone now. I was quite disgusted with the whole thread and asked myself how a forum which is even remotely supposed to be Buddhist could harbour such an attack on another supposedly Buddhist forum. People tend to judge other people not on what they say but on what they do. So, by permitting such a thread in the first place, Malcolm incurred some karma there along with the members of his site. I just don't think it is right that Malcolm is so arrogant as to use TTB's as an example of people who understand nothing when his own site's members suffer from the same sickness. Again, an enlightened being could see the subtleties and the distinctions that I am presenting.

 

And, to create a forum out of spite for another forum in a way is an injustice to all the members. You are supposed to perform actions out of compassion and concern for other sentient beings.

 

And tell me this, although Malcolm claims that he is against "privileged texts', he himself has told posters on his forum that certain topics were inappropriate for his forum, like discussions of practices and experiences. He has removed many topics from his forum. Yet, you will find practices and experiences in most all of the Buddhist books that you can buy on the net, so where is the reciprocity in that?

 

I guess I'm just sick of all he quotes that Simple Jack posted from Malcolm, like he was some god or final authority on Buddhism, when in reality he is just like the rest of us.

 

On another note, what are the dangers of reading secret top-down texts?

Some teachers do tell you and have written about it in their texts. The first danger is supposed to be misinterpretation resulting in nihilism or eternalism. There is a danger that someone reads that there is no self and acts like nothing matters anymore. Yet the karmic accumulator still keeps ticking. They don't understand the two truths, the relative and absolute and become confused.

 

The next danger is that of reification, which is enforces dualism, rather than promote nondualism. At the highest levels of practice, one has to shed even the slightest remnants of the belief in the self because that belief is a hindrance. It is important to realize that all experiences are empty and one should not grasp at them, for the grasping creates a seal or mark and at the highest level seals and marks are hindrances. Anything that enforces a Subject-Object relation is straying from the path.

 

The next danger is no danger at all. If the reader cannot understand the text, then they were not ready or evolved enough to gain any practical knowledge or gnosis from the experiences from the teachings in the first place. If someone is not ready, there is not a whole lot that you can do to help them, except perhaps point them to instructions for the persons of dull intellect and dull faculties.

 

If you ask me, the most shocking text I have read is from the Buddha himself. For, in it (if you want to believe that that is what the Buddha actually said) the Buddha expounds on the true meaning of emptiness, even to the point where he says that if you call him a Buddha, you have succumbed to ignorance for the very act of calling him a Buddha is a mark, and the Buddha doesn't have any marks. But this is not a restricted text.

 

http://www.buddhisttexts.org/uploads/6/3/3/1/6331706/_vajra_prajna_paramita_sutra.pdf#page208

 

The other danger of revealing secret texts, is that if the practices revealed do actually work, then it undermines Buddhism and the need for supporting the very structure that nurtured the teachings. In any institution a support mechanism must be built in to promote dependency in order to sustain the longevity. Otherwise, it would dissolve away and be lost to future generations.

 

The other danger is that of losing face or being simply labeled insane or lunatic. If you present secret texts which tell you how to walk in water, leave footprints in stone, there is the likely chance that ordinary people will think you are just plain crazy or that the "fanatics" should be locked up, burned at the stake or whatever. I still ponder what happened there, when the Chinese murdered 1.2 million Tibetans. It sure makes me wonder.

 

 

What you have summed here is exactly what the Malcom shills have done to the Buddhist discussions here for years. Very well stated!

[asunthatneversets]

After Tibetan_Ice returns from slaughtering all of the Malcolmites...

 

[ralis]

After Tibetan_Ice returns from slaughtering all of the Malcolmites...

 

 

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

[asunthatneversets]

 

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Just remember, ralis... let the hate flow through you. Not over, under or to the sides, but directly through, per Darth Sidious.

[idiot_stimpy]

Tibetan Ice, I think some things in life are just better ignored. Not worth the attention, not worth the energy, not worth the agitation.

 

I don't know who this Malcom is, but don't let anything push your buttons.

[doc benway]

Tibetan Ice, I think some things in life are just better ignored. Not worth the attention, not worth the energy, not worth the agitation.

 

I don't know who this Malcom is, but don't let anything push your buttons.

 

At the risk of offending even further, I'd like to offer another approach that is more challenging but potentially more beneficial.

 

My teacher frequently refers to the Tibetan approach that defines three levels of practitioners.

When something bothers us and we look at it as being someone else or an external situation that is responsible, we are acting as inferior practitioners.

When we look at it as being due to a combination of ourselves and others or an external situation, we are acting as middling practitioners.

When we look at it completely as our own creation and responsibility, we are acting as superior practitioners.

 

So whenever something like this bothers me, I try to look at not who made the attack or insult, but rather what my reaction to that says about me. In this way I have a real opportunity to learn more about myself and grow, even though that might be a bit painful. Otherwise, I'm just wasting my time complaining. I haven't mastered this but it gets easier and more effective with practice. It's a great way to disassemble the ego and cultivate equanimity.

 

Sorry if anyone finds this offensive, it is offered in a loving and supportive spirit.