Here's another burning question

[Wayfarer]

Hello Woodcarver,

 

If you want scripture see Wen Tzu V135 "The space between heaven and earth is the body of one being; all within the universe is the form of one being...Sages know the remote by the way of the near, considering myriad miles one and the same."

 

So...all being One, Woodcarver and Wayfarer is the same IT, so why can I not read your thoughts if I am you? We are the same in the space of no-thoughts. The thoughts are in essence the delusion. Yet, where there is One there cannot be understanding and misunderstanding - one thing cannot simultaneously know and not-know; so to think about reading the thoughts of another is to first believe there is a 'you' and 'another'; one whose thoughts are different and therefore worth reading.

 

It is in our not-thought that we realise That which 'we' is.

 

Hope that helps a little!

[Oz_Chiguy]

If there is no "I", this is not my body, and we all share the same consciousness... then is it possible to shift perspectives through other people?.. as in see through somebody else's eyes and experience what they experience?

 

Second, if this were possible and you knew it was, would you tell me?

 

We all share the same road, but we are all driving different cars. Only one person can drive a car at a time, but we can sit in the backseat and see what the driver is doing.

[GrandmasterP]

If there is no "I", this is not my body, and we all share the same consciousness... then is it possible to shift perspectives through other people?.. as in see through somebody else's eyes and experience what they experience?

 

Second, if this were possible and you knew it was, would you tell me?

 

If your nose is itching you scratch it.

If my nose is itching you don't scratch it.

[woodcarver]

Alas! I think I finally fucking understand. I don't know who's response did it for me... maybe it was more than one so thanks everybody!

 

Good thing I read this thread after meditating.

 

I think it's because senses are collected information that are stored in that one brain and that information can not got to another brain EVEN THOUGH both brains are simultaniously being experienced by conciousness. It seems so simple now, funny how the mind can get caught in gaps in logic.

[woodcarver]

I have finally become dumb and backwards

 

This calls for a taoist non-celebration of eating nutritionally functional and flavorless cake

Edited September 30, 2014 by woodcarver

[Horus]

If there is no "I", this is not my body, and we all share the same consciousness... then is it possible to shift perspectives through other people?.. as in see through somebody else's eyes and experience what they experience?

 

Second, if this were possible and you knew it was, would you tell me?

 

There is "I" - it's just a construct. Same consciousness individuated through dimensions of experience.

 

It is "possible to shift perspectives through other people as in see through somebody else's eyes and experience what they experience" - Yes.

 

"if this were possible and you knew it was, would you tell me?" - Yes.

 

BKA has it right, it's called empathy.

 

At the normal waking state level you have empathy at an emotional and mental level - whereby you feel and think their thoughts (when you know you are doing it - it is the next level).

 

Then, if you have the ability to attenuate your "individual" experience sufficiently you can take on "their" experience more fully.

 

In that state you can see through their eyes, take part in their experience as if it were you.

 

At that level it is sometimes difficult to determine which way is up, is this me or them?

 

The best way to develop these aspects of awareness, ime, is through your own emotions and thoughts...I have had countless instances seeing through other people's experience as a result of leaving no stone unturned - cultivating emotional.mental/behavioural patterns.

 

But my wife is a natural at this. She thinks much of the time it is hers - a true empath.

 

My wife does it all day - in a waking state its usually just the mento-emotional aspect. She'll do other people's stuff, and I see it and tell her - then she sees the vision.

 

In her dreams she will do other people's waking experience - making it her own dream, but its their exact experience only as if it were hers.

 

She'll awaken and tell me about it, and I'll see into it - but, it doesn't marry.

 

I ask a few questions and then start seeing the visuals, and tell her and then she she's it too.

 

It's as simple as letting go of yourself and loving others as unconditionally as you love yourself, and seek to be loved by others.

 

So, yes, yes, yes.

[Horus]

In short, no, none of the above can be true

HAHAHa

 

Oh, another highly gifted empath certain he is not one.

 

Bless You!

[Horus]

I haven't quite learned to close it down, but I guess there are times where I make a conscious effort to avoid tuning in because the situation seems scary or something. It has recently occurred to me that I need to cultivate psychic protection -- though cultivation itself has been tremendously helpful at deflecting a lot of the woebegone types that used to come to me like magnets! I have more of an energetic shield than I used to, but there are still times that I feel drained or invaded.

 

Nice.

 

In my practices and experience the best form of psychic protection (and I agree it is extremely important) is spotlessness.

 

"there are times where I make a conscious effort to avoid tuning in because the situation seems scary or something."

 

Indeed there are, and when you hit those you really feel it.

 

But, what you are feeling is your own emotional/mental/physical body "lighting up" in response to the energies at the "location/target".

 

It is always best ime to clear your responses to these energies - because you will never see the "location/target" clearly until you are spotless within in relation to it. And if you go in before that, you will key into it - and it into you, and you will feel you have been compromised energetically.

 

Zero negative feelings have a root cause at the waking state event we just had that brought them up - ZERO. Meaning that all negative emotions (and mental) have a root cause in our "past" (pastlife other life, earlier in this life, genealogical (familial lives))

 

If you follow each negative to its root and resolve it with higher self - and then take another go at the target/location - it will be clearer - and you'll have no judgement of said energies - thus they will have no soil to take root within your psyche.

 

IMO emotional clearing is essential for empaths (or anyone aspiring to it) that want to be clearer in their gifts.

[Horus]

I think it's because senses are collected information that are stored in that one brain and that information can not got to another brain EVEN THOUGH both brains are simultaniously being experienced by conciousness. It seems so simple now, funny how the mind can get caught in gaps in logic.

That is the experience of individuated linear awareness, to be sure.

 

"senses are collected information that are stored in that one brain"

 

Senses are vehicles/tools to experience through....sight, sound, taste etc

 

The "data" we glean through them is not stored in the brain, but all throughout the system, squirreled.

 

To keep these squirreled pockets of awareness from our conscious awareness, we need to remain in "the experience of individuated linear awareness" and not expand awareness.

 

When you expand awareness, you gain access to all your hidden pockets - and when they are all irrigated and cleared you reach the next ceiling - which usually starts with empathy (emotional/mental) for others and their stuff.

[woodcarver]

Ok this empath stuff just keeps going.

 

Here's the deal: I've always thought I was an empath of some kind of level forever. I was always fascinated with emotional and psychic abilities, always thinking I have them but never knew how to control it properly, and I've always been EXTREMELY sensitive. I've also always been mildly "schizophrenic"/"psychotic" since my earliest memories.

 

So... that's a dangerous road and I don't go near it any more and it doesn't matter what you say after I post this. I'm only interested in the tao and even if I were empathic, the tao doesn't care and it should be forgotten like everything else.

[Horus]

ok, I fully respect that, truly.

 

For the highly gifted and sensitive, it is imperative to respect your need for security, safety, and groundedness.

 

Best wishes on your Path.

[woodcarver]

For the highly gifted and sensitive, it is imperative to respect your need for security, safety, and groundedness.

No, I'm not special in any way.

[Michael Sternbach]

The capacity to 'tune into' other people is not as special as it may seem. In the Silva Mind Control course, quite average people perform this fairly well after four days of training in relaxation and visualization techniques. Like with anything else, talent helps but I guess people who are interested in that kind of seminar are among the more talented ones to begin with. Most of all, practice is important if you are really interested in fine tuning such skills. After taking that seminar, I gathered a few other attendants in order to practice this regularly. Next, my patients in that psychiatric practice gave me a chance to practice on hundreds of cases with all the feedback I needed. This made it easy to learn to intuit all kinds of consciously still unknown data about people, starting with seeing them in the mind's eye the way they actually looked.

 

I'm quite sure that you, Woodcarver, would be doing it nicely with a little practice, but if you don't want to pursue this, that's totally respectable. It can bring certain difficulties with it even though there are ways to deal with those. Horus said some really interesting things in this regard.

[idiot_stimpy]

There is an 'I' if you think there is an 'I'

[Horus]

The capacity to 'tune into' other people is not as special as it may seem. In the Silva Mind Control course, quite average people perform this fairly well after four days of training in relaxation and visualization techniques. Like with anything else, talent helps but I guess people who are interested in that kind of seminar are among the more talented ones to begin with. Most of all, practice is important if you are really interested in fine tuning such skills. After taking that seminar, I gathered a few other attendants in order to practice this regularly. Next, my patients in that psychiatric practice gave me a chance to practice on hundreds of cases with all the feedback I needed. This made it easy to learn to intuit all kinds of consciously still unknown data about people, starting with seeing them in the mind's eye the way they actually looked. I'm quite sure that you, Woodcarver, would be doing it nicely with a little practice, but if you don't want to pursue this, that's totally respectable. It can bring certain difficulties with it even though there are ways to deal with those. Horus said some really interesting things in this regard.

Nicely said Michael.

 

I think that this is the best method to fine tune - "Next, my patients in that psychiatric practice gave me a chance to practice on hundreds of cases with all the feedback I needed."

 

If you can make it an almost mundane regular pass-time - the "I-Self" get's bored after a while - no longer "dazzled by the lights" - (haha - takes a long while for me ) - and after that it's a tool.

 

Regular meditation, and clearing out your own personal experience is key too.

[Horus]

There is an 'I' if you think there is an 'I'

Indeed, there is an "I" if you think there is none in most cases too.

 

You need to round up every thought, word, deed on all concurrent life-times and timelines including the current one - every thought , word and deed that ever thought there was an "I" needs to be audited for you to really have that conviction proper.

 

Then you realise there is still an "I" construct - and then you see it as a tool for experience - rather than who you are.

[Marblehead]

There is an 'I' if you think there is an 'I'

There is an "I" even if "you" think there isn't an "I".

[Sunbeam]

But, what you are feeling is your own emotional/mental/physical body "lighting up" in response to the energies at the "location/target".

 

It is always best ime to clear your responses to these energies - because you will never see the "location/target" clearly until you are spotless within in relation to it. And if you go in before that, you will key into it - and it into you, and you will feel you have been compromised energetically.

 

Zero negative feelings have a root cause at the waking state event we just had that brought them up - ZERO. Meaning that all negative emotions (and mental) have a root cause in our "past" (pastlife other life, earlier in this life, genealogical (familial lives))

 

If you follow each negative to its root and resolve it with higher self - and then take another go at the target/location - it will be clearer - and you'll have no judgement of said energies - thus they will have no soil to take root within your psyche.

 

IMO emotional clearing is essential for empaths (or anyone aspiring to it) that want to be clearer in their gifts.

 

Interesting way to put that. My Sifu would say this same sort of thing in a different way (to be formless/shapeless, thus unable to be found energetically speaking -- he is a master of this). I see what you are saying about clearing the reaction. In some senses I feel I've come to understand that naturally and it does help release the attachment to the experience of someone else's emotions which then clarifies the situation considerably. I think with practice, perhaps, this process can happen more quickly so that I can more immediately discern what is mine and what is someone else's. It's weird that that is not clear to me right away... but I guess I've just been so used to unconsciously taking on people's stuff my whole life that it's more of a realization to be like, "Wait -- but that's not mine!!"

 

Also, I don't think there's anything unTao about working with one's psychic abilities. I think psychic abilities are natural and normal, and everybody has them in one way or another. Plus, the opening of one's psychic centers is a natural part of cultivation. Else, how would you be able to open to and experience the spiritual realms? Of course if this is not your focus (doing psychic work to assist others, for example), that's legit. Just, to me, I see it as a part of Tao, spiritual work, and the experience of oneness originally inquired about

Edited October 3, 2014 by Sunbeam

[Horus]

I think with practice, perhaps, this process can happen more quickly so that I can more immediately discern what is mine and what is someone else's. It's weird that that is not clear to me right away... but I guess I've just been so used to unconsciously taking on people's stuff my whole life that it's more of a realization to be like, "Wait -- but that's not mine!!"

 

I had this conversation with my wife last night.

 

My wife has massive issues with this because she is an Oracle, and the most powerful Psychic Medium (natural not trained) that I have ever known or seen anywhere.

 

When she was a child she could "immediately discern" as you put it, what was "her's" and what was "others".

 

And the key to that door is based in acceptance of the illusion of separation.

 

My wife is all heart. So much so that her compassion embraces ALL of us. In that she can very rarely see herself for the rest of us.

 

Last night she was having an issue with "why one of our neighbours "feels like she is upset with her" (ie upset with my wife)".

 

I've done soooo much work with this stuff that I (usually) "immediately discern" - and in this instance I discerned that it was all the neighbors stuff, not my wife's.

 

She's just a pure vessel, receptacle - living embodiment of compassion personified.

 

So I asked her "how much of this is yours?"

 

"None of it, it's suzies!" she said.

 

All ya gotta do is ask. Then she gets it, very clear.

 

But what then. How do you deal with the issue of constantly being pressed upon and into by not just many but ALL at the same time?

 

Well ya gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when ta run!

 

So I painted an analogy for her:

 

She knows the answer, but sometimes gets lost in her magnitude - we both offer the keel to each other as needed.

 

"You are light, yes?"

 

"Yes." she said.

 

"You are the compassion, the light - so all the rest is not you." I Said.

 

"Ah, thank you. That's it, that's works". She said.

 

"Wow, I used to say that to people when I was a little girl. They would be upset by something and I'd say - that's not yours. They'd say what do you mean. I'd say - well, you are love - anything else you can know is not you - so stop it".

 

Ha, wisdom child.

 

Yet, she was still being hounded by this feeling in the morning, when we had breakfast.

 

So, I said "ok - spirit has been wheeling me around toward doing TLM remotely with people. I've not verified this yet remotely on living people, so let's start with you? Can I clear these feeling and thoughts?".

 

"Yes." She said.

 

So, whilst vacuuming the house (which I do daily with a border collie and burmilla inside the house - hair city - usually do clearing just on me or..well long stories for another time)...I did some clearing around all I felt about this through her.

 

So, in other words I stepped into her experience, took it on - and cleared about 5 things that were presenting themselves to me. All "in my head", not "talking" to her about it.

 

5 mins of vacuuming and clearing later I ask her "So, how do you feel about Suzie now?"

 

"Better," she said "Yes, much better. But I still feel like she's afraid of me or gets fearful when I suggest things to her" She said.

 

"Okm let me clear it" I said.

 

So I cleared that, and then went and did my 2nd morning practice session.

 

Finished up, came back to her..."So, how is it with Suzie now?" I asked my wife.

 

"Hmmm, great, yeh - much more philosophical about it. Thank you so much for clearing it." She exclaimed.

 

"So, it works then? I mean it works just as well as normal Time Line Therapy would have?" I asked her.

 

"Yeh, for sure. I'm flying on it now. How could it not work you are inseparable from it all?" she said.

 

"'Although, now I'm worried about Emma (the next neighbour) and her leaving the key out for us to visit the cat" She said.

 

FLMAO!

[Sunbeam]

Haha the last line is perfect!